Hello everyone. I just bought a 300SD last night. I've never owned one before and this forum seems like a good place for knowledge and help. I've been a Volvo 240 guy forever but the thought of not having to smog a car was too good to pass up! I had the California BAR inspection on my turbo swapped 240 wagon and never want to go through that again.
I'm not a purist, and many of you may cringe when you see what I will do to this car, but I think the journey will be fun for all.
The car is getting steam cleaned right now and I will have photos of it by the weekend. The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
Anyone in norcal have a gas tank and lines? 8)
My question is why would someone want a Mercedes turbodiesel engine in a 1951 Willys? Is it a jeep or a car?
Quote from: John Hubertz on 13 February 2013, 06:29 PM
My question is why would someone want a Mercedes turbodiesel engine in a 1951 Willys? Is it a jeep or a car?
Its kinda like a 2 door Chevy Blazer type of body. I think it has a flat head 6. My dad wanted to put a TDI in it but I think this will be a cheaper and simpler option.
I actually had the same idea back when I had a $400 1980 300SD and a $200 1953 Willys Jeep station wagon. The Willys only had about 30 horsepower, anyway. I loved the power and fuel economy of the turbo diesel engine but hated the difficulty of trying to repair the non-functioning windows and climate control.
I ended up selling the Mercedes for $600 on eBay because I couldn't figure it out and sold the Willys really cheap because it was too much work for me.
Later on, I got a free 1979 300SD that was half parted out along with a free 1977 450SE. I figured that for free I could slap something together and make a profit. The 300SD ended up being my daily driver and I loved it, finally figuring out how to work on it and simplify the complicated things. I ended up selling that one to fund a Euro 1967 W111 230S with sunroof project that I was going to put a 300SD engine into, but the seller ended up wanting way too much money for it, so I passed and bought a 1968 W110 200D to drive around in instead. That car rusted out on me after 2 years, so I bought my current daily driver; a 1980 300SD.
Oh, and I used to have a 1951 Willys truck. It used to have the small 4 cylinder engine, but someone crammed an AMC 258 inline 6 engine in there. I mean CRAMMED... it didn't have a fan on the engine since the pulley was butted up against the radiator, and the firewall had a hole in it for the engine to fit in the cab, which was only held on by one bolt and would shift around on sharp turns.
I was helping someone push their car and it pushed the radiator into the pulley so it wouldn't hold coolant. I used to drive that thing 5 miles to work with no coolant in it. If it stalled from overheating, I'd coast for a while, park, then start it up again and continue on my way. I would agree that I was a bit too broke in those days to be owning a vehicle.
Quote from: socalsean on 13 February 2013, 02:02 PM
Hello everyone. I just bought a 300SD last night. I've never owned one before and this forum seems like a good place for knowledge and help. I've been a Volvo 240 guy forever but the thought of not having to smog a car was too good to pass up! I had the California BAR inspection on my turbo swapped 240 wagon and never want to go through that again.
I'm not a purist, and many of you may cringe when you see what I will do to this car, but I think the journey will be fun for all.
The car is getting steam cleaned right now and I will have photos of it by the weekend. The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
Anyone in norcal have a gas tank and lines? 8)
One of the members here intended to put an LS engine into his W116 but unfortunately he disappeared.... It'd be an interesting project
Quote from: John Hubertz on 13 February 2013, 06:29 PM
My question is why would someone want a Mercedes turbodiesel engine in a 1951 Willys? Is it a jeep or a car?
Because the OM617 is pretty much the best damn engine ever made, and is a great option to put in any vehicle. ;)
Quote from: socalsean on 13 February 2013, 02:02 PM
The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
I have to wonder why you didn't just buy a 450SE(L) or 6.9... 6.9's that have had their suspension systems replaced with traditional spring setups aren't worth much and sell cheap, would still be a much nicer car than the end result you're going to create IMHO, but to each their own... 450SE(L)'s on the other hand are significantly cheaper than equivalent-condition 300SD's.
Why don't you use a newer Mercedes V8 or V12 instead? You could even use an AMG model. I always thought it would be neat if somebody put an AMG 7.3 liter into a W116...
Quote from: Casey on 14 February 2013, 09:04 AM
Quote from: socalsean on 13 February 2013, 02:02 PM
The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
I have to wonder why you didn't just buy a 450SE(L) or 6.9... 6.9's that have had their suspension systems replaced with traditional spring setups aren't worth much and sell cheap, would still be a much nicer car than the end result you're going to create IMHO, but to each their own... 450SE(L)'s on the other hand are significantly cheaper than equivalent-condition 300SD's.
Why don't you use a newer Mercedes V8 or V12 instead? You could even use an AMG model. I always thought it would be neat if somebody put an AMG 7.3 liter into a W116...
I bought the car because it cost me $150. I just wanted a diesel titled car so i could put what ever engine I want in it.
There's more aftermarket support for the engines that I'm deciding upon plus they are way more cost effective than a newer MB engine. If money was no object things would be different.
Quote from: socalsean on 15 February 2013, 03:26 PM
I bought the car because it cost me $150.
Wow, what's the story behind that??
Wiring a new MB engine and trans is a nightmare.... Troy Trepanier put a G55 engine into a 1955 Buick and the wiring harness would make a even a hardened career mechanic run the other way
Quote from: Casey on 15 February 2013, 03:44 PM
Quote from: socalsean on 15 February 2013, 03:26 PM
I bought the car because it cost me $150.
Wow, what's the story behind that??
It has a nasty knock and the owner needed money to fix his Camry. I'm trying to track down the knock. It runs and drives great and has awesome oil pressure and doesn't burn any oil, plus the transmission was rebuilt about a year ago. I'm not familiar with these engines and while my room mate is a diesel tech he was trained to work on newer large frame trucks.
Quote from: Casey on 14 February 2013, 09:04 AM
Quote from: socalsean on 13 February 2013, 02:02 PM
The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
I have to wonder why you didn't just buy a 450SE(L) or 6.9... 6.9's that have had their suspension systems replaced with traditional spring setups aren't worth much and sell cheap, would still be a much nicer car than the end result you're going to create IMHO, but to each their own... 450SE(L)'s on the other hand are significantly cheaper than equivalent-condition 300SD's.
Why don't you use a newer Mercedes V8 or V12 instead? You could even use an AMG model. I always thought it would be neat if somebody put an AMG 7.3 liter into a W116...
I'm not sure about the reasoning behind working with the great, but complicated Toyota motors, but the reasoning behind LS swaps is better fuel efficiency, lower parts cost and more power than a M-100. Better packaging too. You could go all-out and use a vortec 8100 swap for about the price of rebuilding the bottom end of a M-100.
Quote from: ZCarFan on 15 February 2013, 07:20 PM
Quote from: Casey on 14 February 2013, 09:04 AM
Quote from: socalsean on 13 February 2013, 02:02 PM
The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
I have to wonder why you didn't just buy a 450SE(L) or 6.9... 6.9's that have had their suspension systems replaced with traditional spring setups aren't worth much and sell cheap, would still be a much nicer car than the end result you're going to create IMHO, but to each their own... 450SE(L)'s on the other hand are significantly cheaper than equivalent-condition 300SD's.
Why don't you use a newer Mercedes V8 or V12 instead? You could even use an AMG model. I always thought it would be neat if somebody put an AMG 7.3 liter into a W116...
I'm not sure about the reasoning behind working with the great, but complicated Toyota motors, but the reasoning behind LS swaps is better fuel efficiency, lower parts cost and more power than a M-100. Better packaging too. You could go all-out and use a vortec 8100 swap for about the price of rebuilding the bottom end of a M-100.
I don't think the Toyota engines are too complicated. I've messed with a few in the past and never had any issues with them.
With that being said, I'm picking up a 2JZ-GE tomorrow. I decided, for budget reasons, that the LM7 swap would cost 4x more than the 2J. I really don't want to put a rack and pinion steering set up in it....for now (seems like a lot of V8 swaps need the steering box removed for clearance). I figure that if I'm not stoked on the 2J then I can always take it out later and put something else in.
The plan is to drop the 2J in N/A at first to get it running and then toss a turbo on it by summer. 400 whp is my goal.
You could just sell the complete car at a significant markup...then pay less for a 450 or 280, which retain much less value...if you're going to devalue it anyways.
Quote from: Casey on 16 February 2013, 10:26 PM
You could just sell the complete car at a significant markup...then pay less for a 450 or 280, which retain much less value...if you're going to devalue it anyways.
Devalue? I guess that term is subject to debate. I'm taking a car that was destined for Pick 'N Pull and saving it so no matter what I do to it I'm keeping it alive and on the road.
I wanted a diesel car so I don't ever have to smog it. If you don't live in California then maybe you'll never appreciate never having to smog a car. The smog laws out here are ridiculous. My dad has to even smog his 1999 E350 Diesel van.
None the less, I picked up the new engine today. Can't wait to start building the motor mounts!
Please take lots of pics! Sounds exciting.... are you gunna repaint the car?
Quote from: oversize on 18 February 2013, 06:17 PM
Please take lots of pics! Sounds exciting.... are you gunna repaint the car?
I don't think I'm going to paint it. I think after I polish and wax the paint it will look really good. The paint is in great condition. I was toying with the idea of plastic dipping it a flat white but we'll see.
I picked up a 2JZ-GE on Sunday. Just need to source a tranny and I can start building the engine mounts. How difficult is it to get a pedal assembly with a clutch pedal or adapting something to the existing pedal assembly?
Quote from: Casey on 14 February 2013, 09:04 AM
Quote from: socalsean on 13 February 2013, 02:02 PM
The engine and transmission have been sold to my father to power his '51 Willys. I still haven't decided whether a 2JZ, 1UZ, or a LM7 will find it's way under the hood. I have access to all three and they all seem to have their pluses and minuses.
I have to wonder why you didn't just buy a 450SE(L) or 6.9... 6.9's that have had their suspension systems replaced with traditional spring setups aren't worth much and sell cheap, would still be a much nicer car than the end result you're going to create IMHO, but to each their own... 450SE(L)'s on the other hand are significantly cheaper than equivalent-condition 300SD's.
Why don't you use a newer Mercedes V8 or V12 instead? You could even use an AMG model. I always thought it would be neat if somebody put an AMG 7.3 liter into a W116...
Casey, I would say here in GA that the 300 SDs are common and all of the gas-powered models are rarer and thus, dearer. Not sure if I am right, or if it is regional, but that is my observation. I've only found one 450SE in the past 6 months or so. I have yet to find one nearly as nice as your red car. Mind you, I could find sufficient 560 SECs to stack up like cord wood just from browsing Craigslist, but not a 450SEL.
Quote from: ZCarFan on 21 February 2013, 08:00 PM
Casey, I would say here in GA that the 300 SDs are common and all of the gas-powered models are rarer and thus, dearer. Not sure if I am right, or if it is regional, but that is my observation. I've only found one 450SE in the past 6 months or so. I have yet to find one nearly as nice as your red car. Mind you, I could find sufficient 560 SECs to stack up like cord wood just from browsing Craigslist, but not a 450SEL.
Are you in the market for a 450? I have a couple cheap ones. ;)
Quote from: Casey on 21 February 2013, 08:07 PM
Quote from: ZCarFan on 21 February 2013, 08:00 PM
Casey, I would say here in GA that the 300 SDs are common and all of the gas-powered models are rarer and thus, dearer. Not sure if I am right, or if it is regional, but that is my observation. I've only found one 450SE in the past 6 months or so. I have yet to find one nearly as nice as your red car. Mind you, I could find sufficient 560 SECs to stack up like cord wood just from browsing Craigslist, but not a 450SEL.
Are you in the market for a 450? I have a couple cheap ones. ;)
Not now that I just bought a new car, but If someone wanted a W116 and W126 280SE in trade for a nice 450.....
Finally got around to taking a few photos of my car. Not the best since it was after the sun set. Spent last night figuring out how to run sequential fuel and spark using the stock 2JZ-GE dizzy. I sourced a bell housing and a custom adapter to be able to run a th400 behind the 2J until I can sort out a W58, R154, or a T56.
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/DSC04472.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/DSC04474.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/DSC04476.jpg)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/DSC04465.jpg)
Wow, That's awesome for $150!!!
I've just got back into the wonderful world of W116 ownership and am just as excited to get mine back on the road...
I'm keeping my little ol 6 cylinder though! LOL
Keep us posted with the rebuild!
The project has been slightly delayed. Waiting for new freeze plugs to arrive at the Volvo dealer for my daily. Once the wagon is out of the garage I'll pull the diesel drive train and mock up the new engine mounts. I'm picking up a transmission for the new engine tomorrow. So here's my first question:
What is the easiest way to get a clutch pedal in these cars? Is there a US market Mercedes pedal assembly or clutch pedal that others have used for a manual conversion? Welding and fabrication is not an issue but I'd rather keep it to a minimum if possible.
Your best bet is to find a W116 clutch pedal assembly on eBay Deutschland, or some other European country that got manual transmission W116s. Otherwise, you might be able to get one from a W115 or W123 to work, though they are not the same as the W116 set and would need to be modified to fit.
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 18 March 2013, 12:40 AM
Your best bet is to find a W116 clutch pedal assembly on eBay Deutschland, or some other European country that got manual transmission W116s. Otherwise, you might be able to get one from a W115 or W123 to work, though they are not the same as the W116 set and would need to be modified to fit.
Thanks for the info. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a pedal assembly from one of the cars you mentioned. Since you've had your car apart, do you have any photos of the stock w116 auto pedal assembly, installed or removed?
Not sure, but here are some good pictures of the stock brake pedal assembly, and apparently the W116 uses the same pedal assembly as the W/R107 SL/C from the 1970s and 80s (also hard to find): http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAKE-PEDAL-ASSEMBLY-OEM-MERCEDES-W116-450-SE-SEL-280-/220707851731?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3363368dd3&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAKE-PEDAL-ASSEMBLY-OEM-MERCEDES-W116-450-SE-SEL-280-/220707851731?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3363368dd3&vxp=mtr)
If you want to buy W116 parts in Germany, write an email to Oliver Stork in Germany. He's parting out W116 and selling the parts. I've just bought a seat back from. Quality was as described and he delivers in a short time. Not sure, if he delivers outside of Europe, please ask him, his email adress: benz-man@t-online.de
I've purchased from Oliver Stork before (w116rider?), and he has been pleasant to deal with. In fact, I think he may have had a W116 clutch pedal assembly for sale at some point.
Yes, w116rider (what a name ;D ) on ebay. I'm not sure if he still sells on ebay.
I'm pretty sure I've also purchased parts for my 6.9 from Oliver aka w116rider. Accurate descriptions, prompt and courteous shipping, reasonable prices, etc.
Regards
Quick question for you guys.....
Did the W116s with the manual transmission use a cable actuated clutch or hydraulic?
They used a hydraulic clutch. I think the fluid for the clutch master cylinder was provided from a nipple on the plastic brake master cylinder reservoir (you snip off the closed end, the run a hose from it down to the clutch master cylinder).
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 08 April 2013, 05:29 PM
They used a hydraulic clutch. I think the fluid for the clutch master cylinder was provided from a nipple on the plastic brake master cylinder reservoir (you snip off the closed end, the run a hose from it down to the clutch master cylinder).
Thanks for the info. I appreciate the quick response. With that info I can definitely use the stock W116 clutch pedal for my R154 transmission swap. Totally stocked on that! Thanks again!!!!
Thia project was put on hold. I didn't have any free time with my new business. Now that it's slow at work I've been ramping it up. I gave up on the 2JZ since finding a transmission that could hold the power I was looking to make was going to cost a boatload of cash. I sold it and bought a LM7 last night. It should arrive next week.
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/LM7.jpg) (http://s1264.photobucket.com/user/socalsean/media/W116/LM7.jpg.html)
I also bought a set of Pentas, euro light housings, and NOS LHD lenses.
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/penta1.jpg) (http://s1264.photobucket.com/user/socalsean/media/W116/penta1.jpg.html)
My room mate has a LS1 engine block that we will use to mock up engine mounts. Seems like there's plenty of room in the engine bay for this engine. I'm finally getting excited to work on this thing again!
Engine arrived today. Now it's time to yank out the diesel and make some mounts.
My buddy dropped her off this morning. Damn this thing is big.
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/IMG_20131211_093453.jpg) (http://s1264.photobucket.com/user/socalsean/media/W116/IMG_20131211_093453.jpg.html)
I drove up to Stockton today and picked up a rebuilt 4l60e with a new torque converter. On the way back my room mate and I stopped in Modesto to hit up a Pick N Pull. There was a euro 450se that still had the bumpers and headlights. I ended up with just the passenger side lens and both bumpers as the housings and other lens was pretty beat up. Cost me just $146.
I got the engine on the stand and began removing some brackets that won't be used. I broke 2 exhaust manifold bolt heads off but I think there's enough sticking out to get vice grips on them.
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/IMG_20131212_203137.jpg) (http://s1264.photobucket.com/user/socalsean/media/W116/IMG_20131212_203137.jpg.html)
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/IMG_20131212_203559.jpg) (http://s1264.photobucket.com/user/socalsean/media/W116/IMG_20131212_203559.jpg.html)
Slowly but surely I've been gathering parts for the swap. I just picked up a front sump GTO oil pan and some adjustable engine mounts. I should have the diesel engine out sometime next month so I can start cutting and welding onto the frame.
:)
2JZ NO SH*T!
Seriously though, I was a Volvo guy for a while too. I had a straight piped 85 244TI M46 with an 850 15G that pooped fire and then an '83 242TI Homologation car. Had great fun, but man do I hate K-Jet!
Please put a giant Holset or something on the 2JZ.
I ditched the 2JZ and picked up a LM7 instead. Too much trouble to find an affordable transmission to mate up with it. I have a HX55 that will go on the LM7 after it's installed and running. Still waiting on the damn oil pan. I think it was delayed due to all the bad weather in the midwest but it's due to arrive tomorrow or Sunday!
The Dirty Dingo LSX mounts and gasket kit are on the way. Planning on hacking the engine bay apart in the beginning of March.
The LS mounts are here. Looks like they'll work out perfectly.
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj491/socalsean/W116/IMG_20140305_212153.jpg) (http://s1264.photobucket.com/user/socalsean/media/W116/IMG_20140305_212153.jpg.html)
Seems like this project is cursed.
I finally got my Volvo running and out of the garage so I could bring in the 300SD to tear the engine and tranny out of it. The very next day my girlfriends timing belt in her 1.8T Jetta broke and wiped out the head. Now it sits in the garage awaiting its new top end. I hope to have it out by the end of the month.
How close do you think the mounts will be? Wouldn't it be funny if they line right up?
Quote from: ZCarFan on 30 April 2014, 05:22 PM
How close do you think the mounts will be? Wouldn't it be funny if they line right up?
It would be awesomely funny if they lined right up. I'm not counting on it though. The universal hotrod mounts I have will work great. I'll just weld them on the car where ever they need to be and probably cut out the original cross member and weld a steel tube in its place.
The girlfriend's Jetta is finally alive again and out of the garage. My room mate is swapping a turbo engine into his Volvo 240 at the moment and then it will be the 116's turn to be in the garage. This project is taking a lot longer than I anticipated. Oh well.....that's how it always works out.
I have a 450sel with a 4.5, and if that motor ever blows I'll be going for a 5.3 auto or 1uz swap. I currently have a 1uz matted to a 350z 6sp sitting in the garage infront of my 116. Funny how like minded we are. BTW if you find any other euro bumpers and lights in junk yards in socal let me know. I'll grab them or compensate you for picking them.
Good luck and I hope to see you around.
The 1UZ crossed my mind when I was scoping the yards for the 2JZ. The transmission was the only thing holding me back. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on the transmission and the stock auto would have blown up with the amount of power I wanted to make (one of the reasons I ditched the 2JZ). Plus, the LSX engines have so much aftermarket support.
I live in Monterey now but if I run across any euro front end parts in norcal I'll grab them for you.
It's true the 1uz aftermarket support is almost non-existant. And no manual transmission naturally adapts to the motor. But it's very well built and sounds like sex. Cant beat the deal of a LSX motor though.