Hey Folks,
I've found a bunch of threads on here about how/where to lift the car, but all of the photo links are broken.
I need to figure out a spot where to lift the front of my 450SE. I've seen several posts saying that the spot where the cross-member attaches to the frame is where they lift, but I need to re-install my cross member, so I can't really use that, since I don't want my lifting arms that close to where I'm working. I did manage to remove the cross member with it lifted there, but it was VERY sketchy when I did that 2 years ago, and I don't want to repeat that for the install.
Note that I am using a 2 post lift with arms, rather than a drive-on lift. That has a different project car on it, and isn't available.
No don't lift by the cross member connecting point.
You will see a flat angled section inboard of the rocker panel roughly 2 inches wide. That is where you should place the jack and jack stands. Always use a piece of sturdy pressboard or such between the jack saddle and the frame to prevent it getting chewed up.
Quote from: daantjie on 07 May 2023, 08:15 PMNo don't lift by the cross member connecting point.
You will see a flat angled section inboard of the rocker panel roughly 2 inches wide. That is where you should place the jack and jack stands. Always use a piece of sturdy pressboard or such between the jack saddle and the frame to prevent it getting chewed up.
I'm not using jacks. I'm using a two-post lift. This one (https://olympic-equipment.com/product/deluxe-commercial-h-d-series-8000-lb-floor-plate-lift/), to be specific. It has rubber circles about 4" across that are used for pushing upwards.
I'll check for that tomorrow evening. I just smashed my fingers pretty good, so going to sit, ice, and rest.
OK try for this area (in red). I use it with no issues. I would still use a piece of sturdy wood to spread the load, even with rubber saddles you can still cause dents. If you see in my pic due to previous poor jacking the frame rail got dented.
You can put a 3/4" x 12" bolt in the jack hole and lift that, or if you have grooved rubber jack pads put directly under the jack point using the pad to not crush the seam.
Only do above if you have non rusted and solid jack points.
I wound up getting it jacked up using the spots Daantjie mentioned... and discovered that the safety on one side of my lift is malfunctioning, and won't engage, so I can't safely use it. I'm starting to feel like this car doesn't want to be fixed. :'(
Quote from: daantjie on 07 May 2023, 08:15 PMNo don't lift by the cross member connecting point.
You will see a flat angled section inboard of the rocker panel roughly 2 inches wide. That is where you should place the jack and jack stands. Always use a piece of sturdy pressboard or such between the jack saddle and the frame to prevent it getting chewed up.
I've followed this with interest. If I understand right the area pictured below is exactly what you're saying NOT to use. And if so, Yikes!! That's exactly what I've been using as the front lift point. The lift is virtually identical to the OP's. I've placed a wooden shingle on top of the lift's rubber pad to protect both the jack and lift point. I don't think anything bad has happened, but who knows? My reasoning has been that this point is farthest forward so weight is more evenly distributed between front and rear lift arms. I'm assuming that the car is front-heavy. Comments welcome! Thanks and cheers,
Dave, if this pic here is yours, it looks like your idler arm bolt is upside down :o
Quote from: daantjie on 15 May 2023, 12:36 PMDave, if this pic here is yours, it looks like your idler arm bolt is upside down :o
Not mine. And my car is a lot cleaner than this.
Nice ;D
I prefer to use the cross member as a lifting point. The front subframe most definitely was not made to jack on - it only crushes everything.
The saddle under the engine is much stronger than the sub frame, but you can dent that also unless you keep jack with pad under the edge. It's much thinker gauge of metal also.
The cross member is firmly attached to the subframe and is of such design you cant damage it.( with appropriate wood block or such.)
Pretty much every photo I have ever seen of underside of W116's the sub frame is crushed, but I have never seen any with damage to the cross member..
If you have solid jack points you should use them with the guidelines I mentioned earlier.
Maybe it would would be helpful to clarify some nomenclature here. I don't really know what any of this stuff is called and maybe people call them different things in different places. So...
1. The frame pictured by Daniel is called the ______________________.
2. The lift pads here are resting under the ______________________,
which the [same] OR [not same] as above.
3. The rectangular box pictured by me is called the ___________________.
4. The tubular thing running crosswise under the engine is called the _________________.
Picture is attached for reference. If I understand right, this is correct front jack placement and I've been doing wrong all this time, although without apparent damage. :o Again, car is not mine.
[Sidebar - Late July I'll have the pleasure of driving cross country from Utah to CT by way of South Dakota (Black Hills, stop in Sturgis, etc). Ought to be a lot of fun!] Cheers,
Daniel, what are your reasons for avoiding the cross member, or it's square box? (BTW I mean using a jack only on the very end by the box, not in the middle.)
OK, I'm relieved. I've been using the subframe box with a piece of wood underneath. Sounds like that is OK.
For me my thinking is that to truly unload the front suspension you need to have no "anchoring" on any point that influences the suspension and its components.
Maybe I'm off base and I guess if you are not concerned with unloading the front suspension then lifting at the cross member "box" is fine.
Quote from: daantjie on 16 May 2023, 10:46 PMFor me my thinking is that to truly unload the front suspension you need to have no "anchoring" on any point that influences the suspension and its components.
Maybe I'm off base and I guess if you are not concerned with unloading the front suspension then lifting at the cross member "box" is fine.
This thread is a great example of how many ways there are to skin a cat and, at the same time, how ignorance is bliss. I never knew that the suspension should be truly unloaded so yes, I
was unconcerned with that. At the same time, the boxes are affixed to the frame/chassis of the car, so presumably very strong. And in any case, when used as lift points, the suspension
does seem to fully unload. It's as far down as it can go.
But what
has concerned me is the front/rear weight distribution of the car on the lift. I'm assuming that the car's balance point is forward from the midpoint between axles because the engine so heavy. The design of the OP's lift (and the one in my buddy's garage) lends itself to raising a car in the middle. But positioning the car a bit behind the lift posts and positioning the front lift arms forward as much as possible, balances the car better on the lift. Using the boxes helps do this. I have little idea if this is right, maybe I'm over analyzing. But when I was doing my rebuild, exhaust, etc I was terrified of the car falling off the lift. Watching too much Instagram I guess. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Sadly I got kicked out of the garage, so no more lift. I hope I never have to rebuild the engine again. ::) Cheers,
Quote from: raueda1 on 15 May 2023, 12:00 PMI've followed this with interest. If I understand right the area pictured below is exactly what you're saying NOT to use. And if so, Yikes!! That's exactly what I've been using as the front lift point.
Yeah. I've used it without issue for years. My car sat 4' in the air at my old house for about 2 years, resting on that cross-member spot. 0 issues. The only reason I had to look for somewhere else to use was because I'm trying to re-install the crossmember, and I want to limit the risk I bump or push around the spot where I'm lifting from. If I had better faith in myself, I'd probably still use it. Somewhat luckily, I'm aware I'm an idiot, so I try not to do excessively dumb things when I catch myself.
Can anyone upload a picture of where to jack the vehicle up from on the rear if using a floor jack 3ton? I am trying to inspect the rear suspension and don't want to lift from the wrong place
Just use the diff as long as you have a good jack with a rubber saddle pad. Then support with jack stands at rear subframe mounting point at the rocker panel. Let the jack stands take the weight but keep the floor jack supporting the diff slightly. This is your redundancy.
For added safety slide the wheels (if you are removing them) under both rocker panels.
Safety first 8)