What value is a classic?

[Brian Crump]

What value is a classic?
Is a 116 a collectable car? Most certainly it is to me. There are degrees of collectability and for some a coupe is more collectible than a sedan but not for all prospective buyers. So, I would not pay the extra for a coupe whereas I would for a 450 in top condition. There are lots of poor examples available and the cost to return them to a high standard is of course  too much. As good 116s become rarer and change hands less often they will become more collectible than at present. Some of the prices achieved in Europe for Level 1 cars is phenomonal.
What do members of the forum see as the future for the 116, in this regards? Just curious about member's views.
Regards,
BC

[gregdeklerk]

Coupes and cabriolets will always be more collectable because they are more desirable by collectors and they were made in fewer numbers than 4 door sedans!! The things that count against the 116 are that it was produced in such high numbers (about 800 000 odd) and because of their age they have been neglected and fallen into the wrong hands.

In collector circles, there is always pressure to have coupes and cabrios. My attitude is to say bugger the snooty collectors. I will always have a 116 because it has centimental value to me because my father owned one new.

As for the future of the 116, Brian you are right to say that to find a nice 116 is extremely difficult. There are plenty of dogs around!! I think we should look to the Pontons, fintails and 108s. These cars are on the up as are the prices and people are paying high prices for good examples. Give the 116 a few more years and the same will happen.

It is a case of different strokes for different folks. I am a big 4 door Mercedes man. I like the feel of the big car and the pleasure it gives to drive it. I like to drive with the air con on and soft music playing. Someone once said you know when you are in a luxury car when you can just sit in it and shut out the rest of the world. With a 116 you can do that, but not with a coupe or cabrio.

Greg

[Brian Crump]

Ah - a big sedan. Exactly!!!! Room to move (and room for a sheep or two in the boot), room to stretch out and power to do it all.
When I was in Europe last year I noticed a couple of 450SEs for sale for between 15,000 and 20,000 Euros. WOWIE!!!!!!
BC

[Des]

Well look at finnies and roundies, still plenty of them around and command the same price as a W116.

Only model of the W116 that will archive true collector status will be the 6.9
rarity, performance, uniqueness, expect the price of these to start rising over the next 5 years, once all the crappy ones are off the roads.

[Mforcer]

And as the prices of 6.9 rise, so will those of the 'lesser' models.

[michaeld]

Brian,
Good question.

I too have always preferred 4 doors to 2 door models.  A 4 dr. simply offers more versatility.  I grant that 2 dr. models look more "sporty," whatever that means.  But there've been a few too many occasions when I needed that rear seat area for people or cargo, and "sporty" didn't cut it.  Would you rather look cool or be practical?  Your answer to that question largely determines how many doors you want on your car.

The 4 door "curse" affects sedans regardless of make or model.  It certainly aint just a Mercedes thing.

It seems to me that there are multiple markets in older cars.  While there are sub-cats of each, I would offer 4 primary markets: 1) collectors, who purchase primarily as an investment; 2) enthusiasts, who buy the cars of their dreams and then do full restorations and show their cars in events; 3) hobbyists, who enjoy older cars but aren't prepared to invest heavily to fulfill their car-fantasies (they will look for a particular type/class of car rather than one particular make/model, and won't do as much restoration); and 4) the opportunists, who are looking for good cars at a good price.

Until a car becomes truly valuable, 1s and most 2s won't touch them.  1s won't because they're just in it for the money; 2s won't because they can't justify dumping a ton of money into something that doesn't have a high residual value.  That leaves 3s and 4s competing for the "lower status" cars, and 3s and 4s simply won't pay as much for them (particularly 4s).

You've got to understand the 2s' position: he can buy a less "desirable" car for $2 grand, put $8 grand into restoration, and end up with a $3,000 car in terms of market value.  He might want to buy that 4 door and restore it, but no way he can justify it.  So he gets the 2 car coupe that will get him his money back.  That's why the 4 doors end up in the hands of 3s and 4s.  When a car is owned by a 4, its days are more numbered: the 4 won't put the money into essential maintenance, and the car will eventually end up in the boneyard.

I totally agree: there will come a point when there are few enough 4 doors that they will begin to be "rare" enough to gain in value.  But I wouldn't count on that happening any time too soon.

Diesel model w116s are becoming increasingly valuable simply because of gas prices with their better mileage and the prospect of going biodiesel.  6.9s will always be somewhat attractive because 422 cubic inches of German engineering IS rather pretty.  As for the rest of us?  Well, we'll probably always have to wait a little longer if we intend to try to get top dollar.

I completely agree with the sentiments of gregdeklerk's last paragraph.  I also agree with his second: bugger the collectors.  I am able to get what I most want at a substantially reduced price.  Why should I complain?

[Nutz]

I think the 350SEL will be an unexpected collectable due to it being the rarest of the entire W116 line.

[Andrew116]

For Des and Mforcer   A 6.9 is what I would like... looking like this one U could get the right price...
http://www.mobile.de/SIDxhkEeD4.rfMY-RNqmxPnbQ-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11LsearchPublicJ1172658228A2LsearchPublicD1100CCarY-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1B81B20B87%81M-t-vCaMiMkQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_ysO~BSRA6D1100C143E17200BGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sprache=2&sr_qual=GN&top=87&id=11111111241656277&;

[Martin 280s]

The W116 may have been produced in large numbers but for a shorter period of time, around 7 years. If I'm not mistaken the 280s was produced for only 3 years. However the R107, on the other hand, was on the production line for 18 years!
Which one is rarer?
How often do you see a 350SEL (produced in fewer numbers than the 6.9) and how often do you see a R107?
In Brazil, R107s etc are insanely overpriced (R$60,000.00) especially when you conisder that the mechanical parts are shared with 'lesser' models, e.g. ours. A good W116 will cost around R$25,000.00 and a dog less than R$10,000.00
IMHO, the sedans will never have the collector charm of a coupe or cabriolet but have much more value in terms of usability. I remember I went to one club meet and heard the complaints of a trio who had arrived in a cabrio (an early 90's 300sl 24 valve). They were arguing about who'd 'sit' on the back 'seat' - more like a leather covered parcel shelf for a midget.
I feel that the sedans have more 'road presence' as opposed to 'parking lot show'. Between an R107 and a W116, if money were no object, I'd still have the W116.
At club meets in Brazil  you tend to find more cabrios and coupes than older sedans. Again which are rarer?
While the numbers of sedan diminishes due to breakers yards, accidents etc. the cabrios and coupes are cherished and survive in larger numbers. Very Darwinian, survival of the desirables. Are the sedans disposable ? If they are throw them my way!

[Brian Crump]

In my humble opinion (oh bugger it, I'm not humble  ). In my opinion every 116 is a classic. Benz thinks so too in the feature on 116s in its magazine Mercedes-Benz Classic.
If it is good enough for MB then it's good enough for me.
I hereby officially declare, all 116 model cars are true classics.
3 cheers for the 116 
Regards,
BC

[Des]

Brian; which issue of Mercedes Classic was that in?
I have just started buying that magazine, really hard to get hold off at the newsagents, had to drive all over town to find it and there was only one copy.

It's a bit expensive at $14.50 but seems well written and is well produced, lavish pictures etc.. In my understanding made by MB so it is well worth the money.

[oscar]

Mmm...
Classic and collectable.

I like Martin's take on the subject. 

Rarity and price isn't necessarily a precursor to becoming a collectable.  The 107 prices don't make sense to me.  The 116 itself is a classic as Brian says and until I collect the whole set, I hope pricing stays the same.

It's popularity that has restricted the collectability status of the 116.  Interest in other cars keep the price down.  We all know about 116's and love 'em, why doesn't everyone else think the same?

I do believe that the 6.9 though will be seen as the most collectable when the time comes if it hasn't already.  The duds are being weeded out and the better ones are being maintained and restored.  The model itself is unique, has some pretty interesting facts to brag about, and has that mother of an engine.  Just let's keep it to ourselves for a bit longer.

[Brian Crump]

Des - It is called Quality with tradition. S-class legends: W116,W126,W140 in the 03/2005 edition. I can photocopy and send you a pdf file if you send me your email address. I buy mine direct from O/S Germany. Expensive ye, but worth it for the articles.
Regards,
brian

[Vad El]

Mercedes-Benz Classic Center  - for all MB 25-year old.
Age 25 = classic. Imho