W116 Purchase Prospect?

[roadroller]

I posted this first on Benzworld but the w116 community is pretty small there so I'm reposting here:

I recently saw this 1978 300SD for sale in my province: https://www.accessmotors.ca/cars/used/1978-mercedesbenz-300sdturbodiesel-175661

From the photos it looks mint, mileage not too high and it comes with fairly extensive maintenance records. The colour (470) is also quite intriguing, and hard to describe (pinkish orangey brown?). I haven't seen the car in person yet but I've seen a video of the undercarriage and the floors, both of which look good to me:

Undercarriage: https://youtu.be/-0OqYP6Nr8k 
Floors: https://youtu.be/ypIWgxmYDKE

The price is more than I'd like to spend but I really don't know what the market is for a w116 300sd, since I've been almost exclusively focused on w123s.

Can anyone tell me what they think of this sale and if the price is fair or not?

[daantjie]

Always pay upfront for the best example you can find.  Trying to save upfront on a less than ideal example will cost you way more down the line.

[roadroller]

Agreed but what do you think of this particular car - it looks like an excellent example but do you think the price is fair?

[ramiro]

In the pictures it looks good i would say, but nobody can tell you from pictures if the drivetrain is in good condition or what repairs had been done to the chassis.

With my experience the 2 most importants things are interior condition and rust because if those things are bad nearly no amount of money will bring them  back to fully original state but offcourse a good drivetrain is also important.

What i find weird is that the car as a kmh speedometer did not know that it even existed for a 300sd, must be super rare.

[UTn_boy]

In the pictures it looks good i would say, but nobody can tell you from pictures if the drivetrain is in good condition or what repairs had been done to the chassis.

With my experience the 2 most importants things are interior condition and rust because if those things are bad nearly no amount of money will bring them  back to fully original state but offcourse a good drivetrain is also important.

What i find weird is that the car as a kmh speedometer did not know that it even existed for a 300sd, must be super rare.

Canadian models had KPH speedometers because they used the metric system.....at least they did then, not sure about now since so many important fields of study have shunned the metric system since the beginning in favor of the SAE units of measurement.  I, myself, find the metric system easier to use.  It literally uses multiples of 10 for most everything.  Though, the early metric units, such as those used for force and rotational force, were an entity all their own.  But now it's all Newtons and such instead of kilogram force meters or kilo pascals.   

[roadroller]

What i find weird is that the car as a kmh speedometer did not know that it even existed for a 300sd, must be super rare.

The car was purchased new in Quebec, Canada, so that would explain why the speedometer is in km/h.

Thanks for your feedback.  Assuming the drivetrain is in good shape and there really is minimal/no rust, what do you think I should offer for this car? 

[rumb]

Good looking car!  Interior like that is hard to find. Car was probably nicely maintained.

I think the asking price is fair.   

The video of the floor boards doesnt go far enough. Typical rust areas is further forward, where the floor meets the firewall.

[Nabstud]

Rust would be the main issue. Sills (especially around jacking points), bottom of doors, firewall below fuse box, front floors under insulation, spare wheel well, either side of the boot/trunk, rear of the front inner wheel arches (where mudflaps would mount). More info if you search around this site.

This W116 seems to be in pretty good shape. There looks to be a difference in paint colour between the front guard/fender and the drivers door? Also the wheel wells should be body colour, if they are black then someone has painted them, possibly to hide something?

It's an old car but if you're paying good money you want a good car! Definitely need someone who knows about this model to check it out. The underbody protection can easily hide rust.

[Randys01]

The concerns raised by Nabstud Para 1 must be squared away by a physical inspection by you or someone you trust......before we even test drive it to ascertain how good she is mechanically.  That kinda asking money warrants boots on the ground.

[roadroller]

Rust would be the main issue. Sills (especially around jacking points), bottom of doors, firewall below fuse box, front floors under insulation, spare wheel well, either side of the boot/trunk, rear of the front inner wheel arches (where mudflaps would mount). More info if you search around this site.

This W116 seems to be in pretty good shape. There looks to be a difference in paint colour between the front guard/fender and the drivers door? Also the wheel wells should be body colour, if they are black then someone has painted them, possibly to hide something?

It's an old car but if you're paying good money you want a good car! Definitely need someone who knows about this model to check it out. The underbody protection can easily hide rust.

Thanks for these details, especially the bit about the wheel wells - I didn't realize they were supposed to be body colour.  It looks like there is a black coating or maybe rubber on the surface which might just be a protective measure, but I'll look into it.

I can't see any difference in paint colour though, but perhaps your eye is better than mine.  I asked about accident history and if any panels were replaced but the seller doesn't know.  Unfortunately dealers rarely seem to have much info on these older cars they acquire.  All he could tell me was his friend got it a year ago from an old fellow who may have been the original owner.

[roadroller]

Has anyone on here owned a w123 diesel and a w116 diesel?  I prefer the size of the w116 but I like the simplicity of the w123 and I've found a couple of 240Ds that have manual windows and manual AC.  Are the electronics (specifically AC & windows) likely to fail on a w116.  And are the two cars equally fuel efficient (w123 is smaller but w116 has a turbo so maybe that helps with fuel economy)?

[kjenkins]

   I've owned four w116 300sd's and around four w123 diesels. Two 240d's one euro 300d with a rare five speed transmission and one 300d turbo. There are advantages and disadvantages to each particular model. The 240d is a great car, simple to work on, less things to go wrong and will get better gas mileage than the w116 300sd. However, it can be challenging to drive a 240d in todays modern traffic because of how slow they can be.  The w116 is a easier car to drive because of its size and power.  The windows and climate control can be problematic. I personally got rid of the power windows in my w116 300sd and installed manual window regulators which I bought on ebay.  I suggest you take the time to drive both models to see how they suit you. The particular w116 you are looking at seems to be a very nice example. Because its being sold by a dealer, the price is probably higher than it should be.                                                           

[roadroller]

Thanks for the info.  I didn't realize one could put manual windows into an electric setup but if it's simple enough then I would likely do that after purchasing the car.  The 240D I'm looking at has a manual sunroof, which is really cool (although I'd prefer no sunroof). 

I would normal never buy from a dealership but the fact is this is the only good condition w116 diesel I've seen for sale in Canada since I began looking over 6 months ago.  I'm sure it's overpriced but they did at least say we could work out a lower price when I come see the car in person. 

[ramiro]

I wouldn't say that the w123 is simpler than a non 6.9 w116 , many parts on the w116 are the same or near identical like front and rear axle , eletricial system, front seats , engines and transmissions except the v8's, the automatic climate control is the same on a w123 until ~81, and also rustwise there is no big difference.
Offcourse parts that a w116 doesn't share with a w123 are harder to find but those are mainly cosmetic parts nothing that keeps the car from driving .

I also don't see a difference working on a w123 or w116 , brake job is the same on both , changing fuel filters or oil is also the same , interior work is also not really simpler on a w123.

It can even be the other way around if you get a bare bone w116 without any extras it can be simplier than a fully loaded w123.

[Neil4speed]

Thanks for the info.  I didn't realize one could put manual windows into an electric setup but if it's simple enough then I would likely do that after purchasing the car.  The 240D I'm looking at has a manual sunroof, which is really cool (although I'd prefer no sunroof). 

I would normal never buy from a dealership but the fact is this is the only good condition w116 diesel I've seen for sale in Canada since I began looking over 6 months ago.  I'm sure it's overpriced but they did at least say we could work out a lower price when I come see the car in person. 

You know, it's interesting. I saw a similar Milan Brown 300SD, like my 6.9, in Ottawa a few months ago. I feel like I posted about it somewhere, but I can't remember where, and it must be sold by now. It was a bit cheaper and had lower mileage. This color and color combo is beautiful, very period and distincitve.

I (and Daniel) can give you a Canadian market opinion on this. 300SDs have really held their own and appreciated in recent years. If this seller posted on Bring a Trailer (BaT), I'm sure they could easily get their asking price in USD. That said, they're not doing that because, as a 'normal car' dealer, they're not in the business of investing heavily in the sale of their cars. It's a turnover game for them. They don't want the hassle of posting, going through hoops, answering hundreds of questions they wouldn't know the answers to, and dealing with critiques. They want someone to walk up and hand them a check, which isn't common for someone in the market for this kind of car.

It's not that rosy for buyers either to buy from BaT, but here you have the advantage of seeing the car in person and maybe even taking it for a drive. This is one of the cleanest W116s I've seen for sale in Canada over the last three years. I think you have an opportunity as a serious buyer (but not too serious, if that makes sense) to walk in with a cash offer at, say, $16,500.