Crayford estate info update
I have received in the post a pile of brochures, newsletters, registries, and photos of the W116 Crayford estates, from the Chairman of the Crayford Convertible Car Club in the UK, Barry Priestman.
I shall post these over the next few days as I read, scan, and digest them.
Meanwhile, here is a table showing what details are known of the 15 or so known to have been built.
If anyone can fill some gaps, that would be great!
One that particularly needs filling is info on the Australian assembler / modifier; the CCCC Chairman believes that three (at least) were made under licence in Oz. As John Green's blue one and Caroline's green Kermit are (I think) both Oz-compliant, they are likely candidates for Oz conversion.
Rolf appears to have started life in the UK and come to Oz later (although I'm still hoping to trace his history more fully).
Note at the top of the table I've given some numbers for the W114 estate conversions - 400+ - far more of those than the W116 (which could cost twice as much as a 114 wagon).
The W114 was converted under contract by FLM Panelcraft at Fulham, UK as well as in Johannesburg by Cooper and Cooper.
The W116 was converted at Crayford's own plant in Westerham, UK, as well as in California (Hoopers), Detroit (Harpers), and Oz (licensee unknown, but my guess is a Melbourne coachbuilder - could be wrong).
To make it easier to read the table, right-click on it to "view image"; this will then give you an image you can enlarge to its full size.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/M-B%20Miscellany/Crayford_M-B_EstatesTable-A.jpg)
Interesting you say Melbourne as a possible site. I know Melbourne built many things under licence from planes to cars but after reading your post I remembered a link which may throw you another lead to chase up. I found it after reading GrantV's post on South African built MB's.
http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/production/australia/australia.htm (http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/production/australia/australia.htm)
Fintails were also assembled here as well, from memory its now a Toyota assembly plant. Top find too Oscar, that was a good read.
It is a good read and whilst I haven't read it again, I do remember they stopped some time before the W116. As far as the article being helpful, I should mention that I really meant the author. He seems to be very knowledgeable on MB in Aus let alone Melbourne from a company/dealer point of view. It wouldn't surprise me if asked about Aussie Cray's he could reveal some names, company or otherwise.
Quote from: OzBenzHead on 12 November 2007, 07:08 PM
The W114 was converted under contract by FLM Panelcraft at Fulham, UK as well as in Johannesburg by Cooper and Cooper.
That is interesting. I have only ever seen 1 114 estate here in South Africa.
I don't know if you have any information on the author, but I have asked my MB contact if he has any contact details for him. Will PM you if he does.
Hmmm interesting. I am under the impression that at least one 6.9 was converted as well - I remember some talk on the m100 site - I will try digging when I get a chance.
The Sophia Loren Crayford was a 6.9, says there it's living in Switzerland.
Reply from MB Australia
"Hi Craig,
Have spoken to Paul Roleff and he could not assist with any info on the Crayford, he was not aware of any in Australia".
Craig: Thanks for trying.
Frankly, I'm not surprised. My experience with M-B Oz is that they neither know nor care terribly much about anything.
I have on various occasions asked them a number of questions and received "don't know" type answers (or answers that make no sense) - and sometimes just no response at all.
In contrast, whenever I've contacted the Classic Center in Stuttgart, I've received positive responses full of the details I sought (and frequently more). Perhaps it's an attitude thing, maybe a knowledge lack, or it could be sheer lack of interest in anything other than sales of new vehicles and extortionately priced parts.
You can guess that I'll never be an M-B Club president; I don't have the diplomatic tendencies or skills required to crawl to "the Company that can do no wrong" - as seems to be a common belief at presidential level.
[Definition of diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to go to hell whilst convincing him he'll enjoy the trip.]
Quote from: OzBenzHead on 15 November 2007, 06:35 PM
You can guess that I'll never be an M-B Club president; I don't have the diplomatic tendencies or skills required to crawl to "the Company that can do no wrong" - as seems to be a common belief at presidential level.
[Definition of diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to go to hell whilst convincing him he'll enjoy the trip.]
Nothing has changed then I see, I know there was going to coup a few years back that never came to fruition.
This may be of interest
http://cgi.ebay.com/Practical-Classics-June-1999-Crayford-Mercedes-SL-A40_W0QQitemZ120185775460QQihZ002QQcategoryZ98606QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Craig: Thanks for that! :)
Coincidence: I was corresponding with the Practical Classics folk just yesterday, as they are reputed to have quite a strong interest in matters Crayford - although far broader than just Crayford Benzes.
Have ordered the mag.
I don't think the Sophia Loren is a 6.9. It's a 280. There are many pictures I've seen of it, and they've all been a 280.
To my knowledge, Kermit is not Australian-converted. John Green's is unusual in that apparently no SELs were converted by Crayford in the UK, but his was an SEL done here.
Rolf came from England - Rolf H was the second owner. Apparently the first was too scared to drive it much.
The 114 conversion by Crayford was the first time Mercedes-Benz gave a factory warranty for a conversion outside Germany.
I've an excellent issue of Mercedes Enthusiast with Crayford conversions in it. From my information, Crayford did not convert any 6.9s, and the 6.9 wagons I've seen do not mirror the Crayford conversion in incorporating the boot lip into the tailgate. They are shaped straight down as in a W123.
If anyone can track down the Condor, which was the 450SLC Crayford conversion, then I'll be impressed 8).
Quote from: crayford on 24 November 2007, 05:50 PM[...] If anyone can track down the Condor, which was the 450SLC Crayford conversion, then I'll be impressed 8).
I assume that you mean the real thing, not just a photo and some words. I have the latter (left, absent-mindedly, in Sydney last week with Michel), and would post same if they were here.
OBH. Assume you have been in touch with this guy
http://www.caudlemotorcars.com/
You can also see that the W115 received the same rear door treatment here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/W115-MERCEDES-220-RARE-CRAYFORD-ESTATE_W0QQitemZ260179532725QQihZ016QQcategoryZ31360QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Quote from: CraigS on 25 November 2007, 04:44 AM
OBH. Assume you have been in touch with this guy
http://www.caudlemotorcars.com/
About 24 hours ago only! I sent him a heap of stuff. Here's hoping to establish a worthwhile info exchange with him.
This one s supposed to be a Crayford but has a different rear treatment. This is based on a 500 SLC dated 1980
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/Mercedes%20-%20General/sw173.jpg)
Is this the one you were thinking about Crayford?
http://www.jwfloormercedesclassics.com/Cars/customer/product.php?productid=34&cat=6&page=1
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/Memphismazda/crayfordcondorjpg.jpg)
Number 2 "Mercedes Benz Condor by Crayford - UPP 439R" was auctioned off in 1990. per- http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=464018908&searchurl=an%3DWhite%26ph%3D2%26sortby%3D3%26tn%3DClassic%2BCars
That's certainly the one I had in mind.
I read somewhere (in my Crayford literature? - shall check when it returns) that that Condor was originally a "square-back" but after it had a major rear-ender - and parts were no longer readily available - it was remodeled to the "fast-back" style in the pics above, again using some other manufacturer's parts.
Yes, the real thing. I've a brochure from the UK Auto Show one year which has the Condor with price etc, but I'd love to know what happened to the car...
I'll take the silver audi-style 4door fastback... but in a wagon - let me show you what REAL men with REAL seasons in REAL style drive: (my last wagon)
(http://www.wingedmessenger.net/Images/67colonyparkAd.jpg)
Oddly, they made me take down both these ads from my office wall - said it was "sexual harassment"! I was working for Mercury at the time in Parts and Service engineering!
(http://www.wingedmessenger.net/Images/67MarquisAd.jpg)
Caroline: Wouldn't surprise me one whit if it was sitting in the middle of a desert, sandblasted to buggery, because some rich arab ran it out of fuel. My brother, who does a lot of work in Saudi Arabia, reckons old (and not so old) Benzes litter the desert like McDonald's wrappers litter our streets.
Hey, John H: "Man's car", huh?
I recall reading a road test of a model Studebaker I once owned (former Victorian State Police highway pursuit job) - a 1964 Cruiser. It had a V8, exceptionally indirect power steering (like 50 turns lock to lock - almost), and unassisted DRUM brakes all round (and those about the size of a one-serve can of cat food).
The road test described it as a "man's car" because you needed to be 120 kg and stand with both feet on the brake pedal to slow the thing down! ;D Allegedly, stilleto heels were no good in that driver's seat.
How about:
QuotePower steering and power brakes so the little lady can park at the market with ease. Mahogany trim with the manly strength of steel underneath, and optional engines include an all-male 428 marauder engine.
Quote from: OzBenzHead on 25 November 2007, 11:27 PM
Caroline: Wouldn't surprise me one whit if it was sitting in the middle of a desert, sandblasted to buggery, because some rich arab ran it out of fuel. My brother, who does a lot of work in Saudi Arabia, reckons old (and not so old) Benzes litter the desert like McDonald's wrappers litter our streets.
I've heard the same thing. I live my life searching for 114/115 limousines (I know, I know, John Green has one :P), and have heard most of them are in the Middle East. Somewhere. The Condor that was appearing at the 1980 Motor Show was a square back, but not like that ugly bugger of a 500SLC. It's priced in the 1980 Autocar Show Guide at 32,000 pounds. No small potatoes...
Quote from: crayford on 26 November 2007, 12:00 AM[...] No small potatoes...
Perhaps we could all chip in ...
Sorry - can't resist a punning opportunity. ::)
There is quite a lot in Cyprus.
Quote from: crayford on 26 November 2007, 12:00 AM
I've heard the same thing. I live my life searching for 114/115 limousines (I know, I know, John Green has one :P), and have heard most of them are in the Middle East. Somewhere.