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Garage => Test Drive => Topic started by: ptashek on 28 March 2014, 07:56 AM

Title: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 28 March 2014, 07:56 AM
Some of you already know Goldilocks, my 1979 RHD euro 450SE. It's been a long time coming, but she's finally getting restored to her former glory, with works starting around mid / end of April. I already have most of the parts known to be needed at this stage. The workshop has finally found a spot in their queue (currently also working on a 1963 220SE W111, a Tatra 603 and an Iso Grifo). The engine, transmission and drive train in general - beyond some essential maintenance - won't be touched at all, because there's no need to (she's in great shape in that regard!).

I hope this will become a useful resource for others, like all the other restoration threads have helped me figuring out what I want to have done, and where to set my expectations for quality and budget.

Pics will follow as they come in :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: adamb on 28 March 2014, 08:49 AM
Ptashek, looking forward to your restoration pics.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 June 2014, 07:51 PM
Goldie got shipped to the workshop today. It's serious business now...
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 June 2014, 07:30 AM
Some first shots of the restoration effort. The much dreaded disassembly and "how bad is the rust" part. The shop owner tells me, the body is in a pretty good shape (for a UK/Irish car, that means a lot!)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6115.JPG)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6119.JPG)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6120.JPG)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: w116john on 23 June 2014, 07:38 AM

exciting times ptashek, looking forward to seeing it  progress.

best of luck with it
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 23 June 2014, 04:53 PM
Hi Lucas


Wow, the car's already disassembled!  No going back now, just onward and upward.  I see the car is being restored in Poland.  I presume you're going to do a bare-metal re-spray?  What method are your restorers using, are they chemical stripping, soda blasting or dipping?  Is Goldie still going to be Gold?  How long is it going to take more or less?


Our cars are quite similar, good interior, good engine and drive trains.  The body problems are the same, even down to the rust on the passenger side fire wall, the chassis legs and the wheel arches.  I'm still not sure if I want to do an in-depth restoration, a functional remove as much rust as possible restoration, or just to walk away from the car if the rust is found to be too bad.  That would be a sad day indeed.  I have notice that there is some bubbling on my RHS suspension turret, and frankly I was too scared to rub away the rust and take a closer look... :-[


One thing is certain, there is no such thing as a rust free W116 (or any classic car for that fact).  If I could afford it, I'd send my car to Schad. (http://www.schad-mercedes-oldtimer.de/schad-oldtimer-mercedes-benz-restauration/)


Good luck, and keep us posted with regular updates.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 24 June 2014, 08:52 AM
Quote from: gavin116 on 23 June 2014, 04:53 PM
Wow, the car's already disassembled!  No going back now, just onward and upward.  I see the car is being restored in Poland.  I presume you're going to do a bare-metal re-spray?  What method are your restorers using, are they chemical stripping, soda blasting or dipping?  Is Goldie still going to be Gold?  How long is it going to take more or less?

Yeah, I was surprised they managed to take it apart this quick. They sort and label all the parts as they go along, and store them in a dedicated 20ft freight container - so it's even more amazing they did it within two weeks. The car is being restored in Poland, mostly because of the labour rates Irish shops are asking for (north of 65EUR/hour), and labour is where a project like this gets very expensive very quickly.

The plan is to have the car dry-ice blasted to bare metal all over, do the sheet metal work as appropriate using tin instead of filler, and then have it shipped to Dresden, Germany for chemical stripping, passivation and cataphoretic coating. The restorer tells me not much worse result can be achieved with modern epoxy primers at a much smaller cost - so I haven't decided on that last step yet. Then it will be painted in its original DB419 Icon Gold colour, and the interior will be restored in DB906 Moss Green velours. I don't really have any time constraints set around it, but it'll likely take a good part of 12 months. It's an ambitious plan which has a set of must-do items, and many shall-do items. It'll develop as work and budget-burn progress.

Quote
I'm still not sure if I want to do an in-depth restoration, a functional remove as much rust as possible restoration, or just to walk away from the car if the rust is found to be too bad.

I guess it's a question of what your plan is for the car. If you want to drive it for as long as it's technically possible, restoration effort (and cost) is less of an issue. If you plan to sell it at some stage, you probably should not spend more on the car than it's current or potential resale value - and our ordinary 450s are really worth much as it is, and are unlikely to ever be a collectors item.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 26 July 2014, 01:07 PM
A few more shots. The car is down to bare chassis now, and getting stripped to metal. The full extent of rust is visible now, there's a lot of it, but no nasty surprises yet. It's all where it was expected (on a UK/Irish car). Click for full-res version.

Rear subframe mount point
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6122.jpg)

Driver side sill and floor
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6124.jpg)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6125.jpg)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6144.jpg)

Front torsion bar mount
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6126.jpg)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6127.jpg)

Fuse box corner
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6128.jpg)

Sun roof edges
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6131.jpg)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6133.jpg)

Rear end (and a view of a previous butcher-like repair to the trunk floor)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6140.jpg)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/MB450SE/repairs/restoration/DSCN6141.jpg)

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: adamb on 26 July 2014, 06:30 PM
Gosh, makes me realise how much less rust there was on my ex-Hong Kong car. The UK/Irish climate is a real killer.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: nathan on 26 July 2014, 10:14 PM
holy crap.
reminds me of our own 'goldie'
have you bought another donor car for the workers to cut panels off and weld/graft on. much simpler than than custom fabricating everything which wont necessarily fit as well?!
keep us informed, great effort
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 27 July 2014, 02:35 AM
Hi Lucas


The car has come a long way.  Your floors look really good, must have been a pig of a job to remove that stone-guard layer.  Sills and wheel tubs are always rusty, and jacking points too, but at least you are able to deal with it properly now.  That old repair on the rear arch/sill is quite something... 


I'm still waiting on my quotations for my job, which I hope to start in September/October.


Keep us updated,


Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 28 July 2014, 02:37 AM
Quote from: nathan on 26 July 2014, 10:14 PM
holy crap.
reminds me of our own 'goldie'
have you bought another donor car for the workers to cut panels off and weld/graft on. much simpler than than custom fabricating everything which wont necessarily fit as well?!
keep us informed, great effort

I have bought replacement panels, new and used both OEM and 3rd party, where it made sense (or availability was not a problem). The rest will be repaired, and having seen a few of their jobs I'm not worried about fit.
I'll be 3D printing a few non-critical plastic parts, and I plan to release the CAD drawings on Thingiverse (http://www.thingiverse.com/) - if it's possible without MB suing me for breaching any copyright/patent laws.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 28 July 2014, 02:47 AM
Quote from: gavin116 on 27 July 2014, 02:35 AM
must have been a pig of a job to remove that stone-guard layer

It was an absolute pig; took them a couple days to get this crap off of the underside.
I'm actually thinking of having it sealed with some heavy-duty urethane paint (e.g. Miracle Paint, or POR15), and then just sprayed with a very light top-coat of chip-guard.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: adamb on 01 August 2014, 07:19 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 28 July 2014, 02:37 AM

I'll be 3D printing a few non-critical plastic parts, and I plan to release the CAD drawings on Thingiverse (http://www.thingiverse.com/) - if it's possible without MB suing me for breaching any copyright/patent laws.

Going forward being able to refabricate plastic parts will be invaluable. There's room for 3D printing parts like seat handles which snap off far too easily. I need to replace 2 on mine.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 11 August 2014, 07:59 AM
Just seen the car in person for the first time since last August, and it looks rather sorry dismantled all the way. Not much rust but some previous butcher-like repairs, with lots of filler that will need to be made right. The restorer is positive though saying it'll need less work than he anticipated initially. They're currently sandblasting the body in the worst spots in prep for body work, which should be done by September. Then it's off to Germany for a dip.

In the meantime the engine will get new timing chain, all guides, tensioner, crank/camshaft sprockets, and injectors with seals and sockets.

They've tried the Van Wezel fenders on and are happy with fit, but lines may need to be adjusted slightly to match originals. They'll do those with brass, which will also be used on the sunroof frame to fill in gaps in the rusted metal.

So far I'm satisfied with both progress and cost, and it's all working out rather well. I hope it'll continue this way.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 05 October 2014, 06:19 PM
A short update. The sheet metal work is nearing completion, with only the sills and rear end needing major work and a few smaller items needing finishing touches.

Left-hand front bumper mount. Made from scratch.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/gpmmy754fefq73l/DSC_0394.JPG?dl=1)

Left-hand sill, with the bottom part being worked on using a spot welder.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/ogbv9tkfyyakgg3/DSC_0386.JPG?dl=1)

Right-hand sill, bottom part finished.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/hnmwmt4d8c5lztp/DSC_0413.JPG?dl=1)

The rust-through from under the bonnet into the cabin being dealt with. Those fill-welds sure look ugly, but better that than warped panels.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/mvoiqcwat1k1fn8/DSC_0399.JPG?dl=1)

Rear fender bottom, right hand side, attached to check for fit. Made by the guys on site.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/o9g8nxb07uxlcit/DSC_0409.JPG?dl=1)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/5z987h7ar6kaebz/DSC_0410.JPG?dl=1)

A happy Benz face ;)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/v5gfnz1fekwtmx2/DSC_0418.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 06 October 2014, 02:47 AM
Hi Lucas


You're really coming on in leaps and bounds now.  Are you still going to have the body dipped in Germany?  Its going to look really good when they start getting the paint on, you must be very pleased.


Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 October 2014, 03:50 AM
Hi,

Yes, still going to Germany, as soon as the body work is done.
She's coming along great and at just the right pace :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 31 October 2014, 06:30 PM
A few more shots from today :)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/cgw5x35htvktl27/DSC_0001.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/dghcttifz7prv6n/DSC_0009.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/eoeb2rquy97u9rg/DSC_0012.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/55i10w9lvcrbsnt/DSC_0019.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 01 November 2014, 07:16 AM
Hi Lucas

The car is coming along in leaps and bounds now.  Dare I ask: are you still on budget?  What can you tell me about the new front fender.  I take it is a reproduction.  If so, what was it like to fit, and how is the fit?  Was the quality and gauge of the the steel the same as that that was originally on the car?  And where did you get it from?  Won't be long now before it goes for its dip.

Keep us posted,

Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 01 November 2014, 04:43 PM
Quote from: gavin116 on 01 November 2014, 07:16 AM
The car is coming along in leaps and bounds now.  Dare I ask: are you still on budget?  What can you tell me about the new front fender.  I take it is a reproduction.  If so, what was it like to fit, and how is the fit?  Was the quality and gauge of the the steel the same as that that was originally on the car?  And where did you get it from?  Won't be long now before it goes for its dip.

Hi,

Yes, still perfectly within budget, but the most costly parts are yet to come.

The fender is a Van Wezel reproduction. The steel was as good as any, but I'm no expert :) I doubt it's worse than what MB had access to in 1979.
The guys tell me the part has reasonable fit but needed some persuasion to line up properly, and the edges are not exactly OEM but fixable with little effort.

I got mine at http://www.geiz-24.de/carcat/parts/674/11750 for 90.32EUR with VAT, each.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 28 November 2014, 12:50 PM
Latest news from the front. The worst, and likely most labor-intensive (i.e. costly), part of the project (sheet metal work) is nearing completion, and my precious is booked in for her paint removal / de-rust / coat bath in Germany for January. The business must be thriving in Europe. I had problems actually booking the car in for early next year. There's only about six companies that have baths enough to take a regular W116 chassis as a unit, and only five which can handle the process on-site. One is in the UK, three in Germany and one in Poland (the cheapest by far, but only does the coating part). Pricing is on a case-by-case basis, which is where it gets interesting. Some charge by element, some charge by weight, some charge using a combination of both (e.g. chassis by weight, the rest by piece).
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 December 2014, 09:27 AM
A few more fresh pics. Also an update for the non-OEM front wings: Just don't buy them. Turns out fit was good enough on the door side, but the part is pressed totally wrong where the indicator lamp mounts, having an extra gap of about 8mm. Well, I've learned my lesson.

Also, just bought another cache of new parts, including new water pump, distributor cap and rotor, spark plug wires, front/rear shaft seals (both engine and transmission), new oil pump chain and oil pan gasket, v-belts. In total, there's something like a 150 new parts going into the car.

Passenger side
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/djwa8uk3x5xgx2z/DSC_00122.JPG?dl=1)

Rear-end wheel arches all done, and brass braised
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/lcp9kkwi8w2a8bp/DSC_00152.JPG?dl=1)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/f5xxo9d58obz7h9/DSC_0014.JPG?dl=1)

Driver side sill, spot welded shut and brass braised
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/m1njwgi61g8f02b/DSC_0025.JPG?dl=1)

The sorry 3rd party front wing. The guys are confident they can persuade it to fit properly, and I know they have the skills to make it happen. We'll see.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/uklbczukiw57rvt/DSC_00102.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 12 January 2015, 08:40 PM
Progress update - the car is ready for shipping to Germany, and the front wing was re-shaped to fit perfectly around the indicator lens. They're doing some work on the engine as well, pretty much replacing the entire timing setup with new parts, except for rockers and camshafts. The car is not burning oil outside spec (0.2l/1000km is well within factory limits) so I can easily make a pass on doing valves and heads for a few years, collecting all engine rebuild parts in the meantime.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: dannaz94 on 06 February 2015, 09:15 AM
wow! this is awesome. you are really going to town on this car. i wish you all the best and look forward to seeing the end result. which should be amazing!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 February 2015, 08:12 AM
Progress update: The stripping/coating process is nearing completion, and the car will be ready for pickup first week of March. This was the single most expensive part of the entire project thus far, excluding labour costs. I'll know in a few years whether it was worth the money. The company doing it is Rainer Syre Chemische Entlackung in Bönen, Germany. I'll have my restorer check over the work first before I'll give them a recommendation, but in terms of a business relationship they're really easy to work with.  I'll post pics of the finished parts as soon as I have them.

I'm beginning to see the light at the end of this project's tunnel and, unless things go horribly wrong, it should be done by 08/2015 as planned.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 21 February 2015, 02:19 PM
Wow, Lucas, Not sure where to start.
First thing is..way to go!
second is.. did you know the metal was in such bad shape? Was it not possible to get a better car to start off with?
Also, what's that dip you talk of? Tin-coating? What's the price for such a job?

I hear you talk about 150 new parts in the car, by the time it's done. Is that really enough/ possible to achieve your goal?
What exactly is your goal? Just drive it, keep it, and delay much of the maintenance? I totally understand that angle.
Or is there still an idea of market value attached to your project? If that is the case, I would be a little worried
You go all-out with your stripping and dipping. But, where does that land you if you don't go all the way?

I haven't even started stripping my car(s) for a similar project, but I have about 300 new parts per car, and another 50 aftermarket parts. And dozens mint of second-hand parts.
After that it is a matter of re-chroming all chrome, white-wall tires, and having a bunch of parts refurbished.

My idea is that if I only go halfway, I will end up with a car that will cost 20000 to fix, but can not be valued as a concours car, and thus will remain at the 5000 euro market value.
I am making the choice to go all-out, hoping that, in it's rare splendor, without fault, my car(s) actually have a chance of entering a league of their own, with one of them finding a buyer at 50.000.

Personally, I am not too sure these W116's can never be a collector's item.  Perfect specimens are rare, and parts are also getting more and more unavailable.
Sourcing a large collection of parts is difficult, and takes lots of time. Not everyone's cup of tea. Go restore a W116, I dare you. (well, YOU are) I sometimes think restoring a W111 may be easier, with a sure pay-day afterwards.

People like old-timers, and they love Benz. But, if you go further back than a W116, you'll end up with cars that are technologically far behind. At best, cars for a Sunday drive.
Better looking, maybe, and older for sure.
I really want a W111 as well, but I do not think I would be driving it to the supermarket on a week day. Taking it for a week's holiday with the kids, doing highways and mountain roads? Not too sure.

A mint W116 can actually offer decades of classic driving, daily, while retaining it's value, while offering much of a modern day's car comfort. Maintenance could/would/should be the same as what you get from buying a new car, be it that 100.000 usd spent on a S400, will leave you with a tin can worth 3000usd, 10 yrs later.

This is my angle. I want to get to a point where one of my cars can sell at 50-75000usd, with 3 yrs full warranty, just like a new Merc.
I think that is where the W116's strength may lie.
Time will tell whether I am silly or smart. In the meantime it's one hell of a hobby and a venture.
Just hope I survive financially.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 22 February 2015, 07:33 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 21 February 2015, 02:19 PM
second is.. did you know the metal was in such bad shape? Was it not possible to get a better car to start off with?

I guess, chassis wise at least, I could've gotten a better car if I waited longer. But I liked this one a lot. Low and documented miles, overhauled transmission, pretty good interior, history file down to the original factory data cards, all keys and service book. The metal may look like it's in bad shape, but keep in mind this is a UK sourced car. With that context, it's actually in really good shape. With few exceptions UK, and Irish especially, classics are rust-buckets on wheels kept together by paint, fibre-glass and bondo. Very humid climate, salt on roads in the winter (in the UK), no roadworthiness testing (in Ireland, cars registered before 01/1980 aren't tested at all) and poor maintenance take its toll. I can post some pics of my 350SE parts car for you to compare with a typical chassis you get here... It's horror on wheels.

QuoteAlso, what's that dip you talk of? Tin-coating? What's the price for such a job?
The process is three-fold - chemical paint stripping (all you get is bare metal and rust, if any). This is then followed by de-rusting, which leaves you with nothing but healthy steel. Then you do all the body work necessary, and de-rust again. The last step is KTL coating it all. I've had it made differently, by sand-blasting first, repairing and then doing all three steps in one go. The body was in good enough shape to do it this way.

KTL coating is an epoxy primer applied in a cataphoretic process, then baked at 180*C for anything between 30-90 minutes where the particles melt and fuse to create a sealing surface. It's the exact same process every modern car chassis undergoes at factory. Prices tend to vary quite a bit, but here's the price list I was working with: http://entlackerhelden.de/de_sites_leistungen_8_Preise.html

QuoteI hear you talk about 150 new parts in the car, by the time it's done. Is that really enough/ possible to achieve your goal?
What exactly is your goal? Just drive it, keep it, and delay much of the maintenance? I totally understand that angle.
Or is there still an idea of market value attached to your project? If that is the case, I would be a little worried
You go all-out with your stripping and dipping. But, where does that land you if you don't go all the way?

My goal is to build a healthy, good looking car I will enjoy driving as often as possible. I'm not really delaying any maintenance, except for an engine overhaul which my car doesn't need at 69k miles from new. Things like re-sale value, or "concours" is not something I am concerned with.

QuoteMy idea is that if I only go halfway, I will end up with a car that will cost 20000 to fix, but can not be valued as a concours car, and thus will remain at the 5000 euro market value.
I am making the choice to go all-out, hoping that, in it's rare splendor, without fault, my car(s) actually have a chance of entering a league of their own, with one of them finding a buyer at 50.000.

I think none but the rarest of models (the 6.9, maybe the 350SEL) of the W116 will ever be worth what they cost to restore properly, even today when parts are in reasonable supply and at eye-watering, but still affordable prices.

QuoteA mint W116 can actually offer decades of classic driving, daily, while retaining it's value, while offering much of a modern day's car comfort. Maintenance could/would/should be the same as what you get from buying a new car [..]

Currently day-to-day maintenance of the W116 (consumables) is on par with modern mass-produced cars. But in 5-10 years it won't be.
I am slowly stocking up on things like oil filters, break pads etc.

QuoteThis is my angle. I want to get to a point where one of my cars can sell at 50-75000usd, with 3 yrs full warranty, just like a new Merc.

That's a very ambitious goal, but the classics market has rules of its own.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 19 March 2015, 06:34 AM
Since I've been asked this more than once via PM, here's a list of parts being replaced as part of this project. All listed in no particular order.
Some are very specific to my exact model (450), engine (M117.986) and chassis number range (>95000). Part numbers provided where I had them.

I'll keep the list updated as the project progresses, but as of today, this list is considered complete.

http://goo.gl/Mk4dTc

In other news:
The car has arrived from processing last Thursday, after some adventures...
The restorer has had his trailer stolen form a parking lot in Germany, a couple hours before he was supposed to pick the chassis up.

I shall have some pics over the weekend.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 March 2015, 02:13 PM
As promised, some pics of the chassis after coating. Everything looks just great, but as life has it there were some issues - one of the doors, and the rear-left wheel arch got dinged during loading. Nothing major though. Click pics for full-resolution version.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/bllz5m5cljegn25/merc2.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/w9xjub9cr1fmpg1/merc3.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/ofg985n757h57e8/merc4.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/wqq72oyp38ssn18/merc5.jpg?dl=1)

Underside, back towards the engine bay.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/g4fwk6izkrduonh/merc10.jpg?dl=1)

Engine bay.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/7pnzib6vyqt8soo/merc12.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/h2unqr31tw29yqg/merc13.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 21 March 2015, 02:43 PM
Hi Lucas


What a beautiful thing to behold! Goldilocks will now last forever.  I take it the black finish is e-coat?


Many congratulations on a job well done.


Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 March 2015, 03:01 PM
Thanks! Yes, the black finish is the e-coat. Got my dad - who happens to be a body work master craftsman, and oversees the project for me locally - to check it over, and he tells me it got to every nook and cranny he was able to see, which is the main advantage over spray-on epoxy primers. I sure hope it'll last long enough to make the whole thing worthwhile :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 21 March 2015, 11:07 PM
God, I am ready to weep at the site of this. What a thing of beauty!. I want, I want, I want! Forgot my doubts about going all the way. If this isn't it, what is?
Now I am really in trouble. I secretly hope there isn't such a facility in Taiwan, coz if I find one, I am all-in!
Still, I secretly wonder whether you you will manage to not buy even more, new parts to match the perfection of this immaculate chassis.
Anyone who's ever seen a non-restored naked W116 chassis will agree. Hats off.. this is the summit.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 April 2015, 04:46 PM
Well, the project has hit its first major snag. So, my dad checked out the coating and was satisfied with it, but as the workshop guys started prepping the surface for first coat of primer, they found a few spots where the coating has peeled off when lightly sanded, revealing... rust spots. Yes, you read that right. So now its back to discussing my options with the Germans. Suffice to say, I'm not a happy camper after paying them thousands of EUR to have an epoxy-primed rust-free chassis.

TBC...
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 15 April 2015, 01:39 AM
Hi Lucas


Sorry to hear that there's been a problem.  What a set back! I'm sure they can chemically strip and re-dip for you at no further cost to you.  Good thing your dad is there on hand to help oversee things.  And even better that your resto-guys have put a halt on the project and not just ignored the problem.


Good luck further,


Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 15 April 2015, 06:11 AM
Just got off the phone with the Germans, and I'm mildly satisfied with their explanation, especially after they've sent me pics taken during the process. Apparently the thing that looks like rust actually isn't. They say it's an epoxy resin that was used at factory between the seams of spot-welded panels, and which creeped out when the chassis was baked at 200*C after coating, and there's zero that can be done about it. Their chemistry can't creep into those seams deep enough to get rid of that thing, they're so tight. The resin is crusted, brown and hard (which rust shouldn't be, hence why I'm "mildly satisfied"). Yet, somehow I find it hard to believe two guys with 60 years combined experience got fooled that easy. They're doing some tests. There are two spots where I am not convinced by the "resin" argument, so I'm keeping my options open.

And now, for the gory details, for posterity's sake:
http://goo.gl/8awlsk
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: oversize on 15 April 2015, 07:46 AM
Seems like there's no-where on the planet that does the 'perfect' job!!  Maybe we expect too much??
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 15 April 2015, 07:56 AM
I feel your frustration.. I'd be in meltdown..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 May 2015, 07:35 AM
The whole story of Goldilocks restoration so far, in pictures. Rust-free climate viewers be advised, this content is graphic ;)
https://goo.gl/iyt9fe

p.s.: Pics are saved in a rather unsorted way. I'll get to that eventually.

Current status: paint job prep underway.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 July 2015, 04:29 AM
Another short update on progress, or rather lack thereof.

Bumpers are due back from re-chroming this week.
Upholstery resto starts this week too.
Chassis is prepped for paint.

The guys were focusing on getting the Iso Grifo mentioned in this thread out the door, after something like 3 years of constant attention in the shop. Can't blame them. They've probably been sick of it by now ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 16 July 2015, 10:20 AM
And when things were looking OK again... cabrio.de just let me know they are no longer able to deliver the moss green velours 916P plain and 916R ribbed fabric. Bugger that  >:(
Those folks are my last hope: http://www.steenbuck-web.de/mercedes_polstervelour_wollvelour.htm

If that doesn't workout, it'll be bye-bye originality.
I guess that's another point for "the W116 buyer's guide": Do not buy a velours upholstered model. Ever.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 16 July 2015, 01:35 PM
Sure about that? Lots of earlier models had velour upholstery including the 600 it was often only the driver's seat was leather. I remember not too long ago seeing rolls of velour for sale by MB.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 16 July 2015, 05:07 PM
MB doesn't sell any upholstery material no more, and interior panels haven't been available for quite some time.
At least that's what I've been told by UK and German MB dealers.

It's likely that other velours colours are more readily available.
Moss green wasn't the most popular, and it shows :|
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 21 July 2015, 02:14 PM
What's the alternative then new leather? Do see the odd old set on ebay occasionally.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 July 2015, 05:31 PM
Quote from: marku on 21 July 2015, 02:14 PM
What's the alternative then new leather? Do see the odd old set on ebay occasionally.

Cloth and MB Tex(ish) are in better supply, but also in the more popular colours.
There is an option of ordering non-dyed white velours, plain and ribbed, and dying it to spec. But minimum order is 40rm, and it ain't very affordable either.

The all-out option is to redo everything (panels, dash, seats etc.) in custom leather/vinyl, if I can't find a velours supplier that has some residual stock.
It would be a shame though, because the only thing that really needs work are the seats. That damn velours wears out without shame.
I could also just let it be, and get some seat covers, but that defeats the purpose of a full-on restoration.

Second hand interior is not an option I'm considering. There's no point to it.

Either way, I have a month or two to figure out a plan, before the interior will be ready for re-assembly.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 July 2015, 05:38 PM
To contrast the upholstery drama, some good progress was made with the chassis :)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/50hwf3r2jh1xhg0/DSC_0112.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/k2wesh62z3kucws/DSC_0125.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/zxcsz80n1fqvtc9/DSC_0123.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/d6h05uu8k7xj5e1/DSC_0114.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/h5e7hjrycgpky09/DSC_0111.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/d6h05uu8k7xj5e1/DSC_0114.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 24 July 2015, 12:10 AM
Hi Lucas


Oh my, that's really looking good!  When it's all done, it will surely be better than new. 


Always nice to see your updates,


Gavin



Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 24 July 2015, 07:57 AM
Very nice to see it being done properly with a white show coat. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Greg on 27 July 2015, 02:23 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread! But what is a "show coat" and whats it about? I am wondering about the white outside colour..................
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 July 2015, 08:08 PM
Quote from: Greg on 27 July 2015, 02:23 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread! But what is a "show coat" and whats it about? I am wondering about the white outside colour..................

It's a primer coat sprayed on to expose all uneven surfaces that will need correcting with filler, hence "show coat". It's sanded down, and eventually you end up with a patch of white/black (in my case) hills and valleys, which are then used as a guide for corrections. It won't stay like this for long.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 27 July 2015, 08:55 PM
Even though cheering in the background, I find myself rather green with envy! Looks great!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 19 August 2015, 06:57 PM
Meanwhile I did get some MB-Tex samples from World Upholstery, and there's a really good match. For the moment that's my first "custom" alternative.
How do folks here judge the quality and durability of their products?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 19 August 2015, 09:20 PM
Are you doing all of this as a one-man job?
I admire your skills and patience.
Luckily, my cars are 40km away, so I can't look at them too often, haha!
My USA mechanic is flying in on Friday, so we can finally get started!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 20 August 2015, 04:35 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 19 August 2015, 09:20 PM
Are you doing all of this as a one-man job?
I admire your skills and patience.
Luckily, my cars are 40km away, so I can't look at them too often, haha!
My USA mechanic is flying in on Friday, so we can finally get started!

I source parts myself, which is probably the toughest job I have ever done... Considering how much money all of this costs, you'd think people would actually give a damn about maintaining their stock lists, catalogues and websites current. Wishful thinking.

Once I find what I need, everything is shipped straight to the restorer. They're the main contractor for the restoration, and all third-party jobs they can't do themselves. One shop runs everything, and there's one person to deal with, and yell at if needed, for the whole job. It's the best possible approach I think, with the added advantage of their bulk discounts with other shops passed on to me to some extent. My dad, himself a master-craftsman of the trade, supervises everything on-site for me, and keeps the shop honest and all work billed accounted for. My car is a 4h flight away - I see it once a year in person, if at all, so consider yourself lucky :D

Fingers crossed for a speedy take-off of your own project, and remember to keep us in the loop :)
All those restoration threads here are my personal favourites.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 20 August 2015, 08:25 PM
He, that's not to different from my project! (besides the 4hr flight!)
My mechanic will supervise, and luckily the workshop guys are friends. Honest guys.
I source everything myself, and yes, WHAT an epic job, considering I am no mechanic, and had to learn everything from scratch.
1.5 years now, and all I do is source and shop. Speaking 6 languages helps.

If you want it fast, everything comes at top dollar, and maybe not even top quality. It'll raise the average price by 100% in the end.
I will find the time and take photos of all the goodies I bought over time. There are some gorgeous items, rare items, and stuff I bought at prices you wouldn't believe. -in both directions.
I expect my restoration thread to come alive next week.-with a vengeance!
Off to the airport today, to finally meet my savior from New Orleans.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 20 August 2015, 08:26 PM
http://www.ebay.de/itm/MERCEDES-ORIGINAL-CHROM-ENDSTUCK-AUSPUFFBLENDE-116-W116-/191669019686?hash=item2ca05d2426
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 25 August 2015, 06:19 PM
Well, I've decided to give up my quest for the elusive "moss green" velours seat material, and have ordered a set of MB-Tex seat covers in "avocado" from worlduph.com. The samples they've sent me, are a near-perfect match with my door panels, dash and centre console - bar the 35 years of fading. Not original and quite a downgrade, but still model and colour correct.

The existing carpets will be replaced with a fine velours, RHD specific, set from cabrio.de in dark green (they call it "moss green", albeit it's anything but). Their carpet material matches quite well with the vinyl from worlduph.com, and comes with a good foam backing for improved soundproofing. Hopefully it'll all fit well too. Headliner, trunk and parcel shelf carpet will also be replaced.

The chassis has been sanded down, and they're finishing all the bits that could not be done using brass/tin, with filler.
Goldie also has new neighbours in the shop - a completely rotten 230SL Pagoda, and yet another Iso Grifo.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: slfan on 26 August 2015, 07:56 PM
Ptashek,

I am going through the same ordeal as you with the Velour Moss Green interior.  A previous owner foi one foi my cars swapped this interior for green leather in a non-Mercedes pattern.  The car came with three seta of used Moss Green covers.  However, as I am doing a bare metal restoration, it does not make ano sense to restore the entire car and utilize used/secondhand seat covers.

I am considering the GAHH Avocado seat covers (still deciding between leather and MB-Tex) and the carpete from cabrio.de.  Quick question:  I could not find a crédit card payment option in the cabrio.de.  Are all payment via bank transfer?

Regards,

Slfan
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 August 2015, 04:10 AM
Hey Slfan,

I found that the texture of the leather samples was not very appealing, and wasn't a close match - at least with the "parchment" interior I have from my parts car. The vinyl was near perfect.
Also, looking at other W116s on the road I've realised the MB-Tex is holding up much better over the years than leather does, and this swayed me in its favour. I just hope I won't regret going pre-made instead of custom made locally; but samples of the worlduph stuff on the web all looked rather well.

As for cabrio.de, as far as I can tell, yes they only take payments via wire transfer.
Maybe they'd be able to take credit card payments over the phone, but I've never tried.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 27 August 2015, 06:46 AM
I still have a completely new FULL carpet kit lying around from GAHH.
I bought it as parchment, but what arrived was green. It would make for a great moss green combo, I think.
It is a LHD, but the missing carpet pieces will have to be made anyways, since nobody sells the RHD carpets.
I can arrange for GAHH to ship a few yards of the same material to you.
I will part with the whole kit for 400usd, which is a bucket less than buying regularly.
Just so you know.

Stan
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 August 2015, 08:12 AM
I have cabrio.de stating on record they can ship RHD carpet sets, but they're not listed anywhere on their site. You have to request one specifically. Same pricing as for LHD - 347EUR + VAT (as of Aug 2015), in fine velour with sound proofing foam backing.

I've bought one, and will report on quality / fit as soon as it arrives at the restorer and they get a chance to check it against the existing set.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: slfan on 28 August 2015, 09:33 PM
Ptashek,

MB-Tex is definitely much more resistant than leather.  Unfortunately, if I stick 100% to originality, my car (a 6.9) was never offered with MB-Tex and would need to go with either leather or Velour (if it were available).  As the body and paint service should only be complete at the beginning of next year, I still have some time to think about this.

Be the way, please maintain us informed of your restoration:  this post is extremely interesting.

Best regards,

Slfan
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 02 September 2015, 08:16 AM
A few more pics from the mechanical front.
Click on each pic for full-res glory ;)

Diff and transmission after basic service, cleaning and painting.
Transmission got new input and output shaft seals, new filter and pan gasket.
The diff was stripped from 36 years of grime and re-painted.

And if you've ever wondered how the timing setup looks like, check below.
Things done here (the pic is from before all that was done):
- all new gears
- timing box and shaft seals
- chain and tensioner
- all guides

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/jjsdh2dpq4r720a/DSCN8636.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/22engqb55yrpt4u/CIMG2699.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/qvr4q5z1w7dp6nn/CIMG2697.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/89jv5nsj2jibeuk/CIMG2698.JPG?dl=1)


(http://www.dropbox.com/s/ktttt4pwb7shgyt/CIMG2703.JPG?dl=1)

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: slfan on 02 September 2015, 08:43 AM
Ptashek,

Great pics and, once again, congratulations on the progress. 

Regards,
Slfan
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 02 September 2015, 09:05 PM
Every time I see your next post, I feel like I need to do more! That is what my difff and trans should look like!
How about all the parts you describe having replaced? Are those all available from MB still?
I WOULD love a parts list, linked to those 2 jobs.. If you have kept one?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 03 September 2015, 12:57 AM
Hi Lucas


The car's mechanicals are coming along nicely.  I bet there are still quite a few components to be refurbished.  Are you going to do any plating in the engine bay? 


Tell me, are those russet coloured timing chain guides the new ones, I always thought they were a white/ivory colour?  As I understand it, the guides are very cheap from M-B, and it's better to stick with the originals.  According to legend (and ? Kent of MercedesSource), aftermarket guides tend to fail.  Worth checking with the guy's doing the work, as a failure here would be catastrophic for Goldilocks.  This is the thing that worries me most about Mrs W, is timing chain failure  :'( .


You must not forget to get the guys to change those two hoses you can see that are now exposed.  I remember buying that large hose, it was astonishingly eye-wateringly expensive, that goes from the engine block to the water-pump.  I have held mine back until we do this job, then I will swap it over.  At the same time, they should replace the hose clamps if they are shot, but with the type that doesn't pitch the hose (I just bought mine from M-B).  I didn't realise that there was a second smaller hose there...


As always, looking forward to your next instalment,


Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 03 September 2015, 06:44 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 02 September 2015, 09:05 PM
Every time I see your next post, I feel like I need to do more! That is what my difff and trans should look like!
How about all the parts you describe having replaced? Are those all available from MB still?
I WOULD love a parts list, linked to those 2 jobs.. If you have kept one?

All the parts, except the oil pump chain guide are listed in the parts list I've sent you a while back. I'll make it all public once the project needs no more parts. Maybe I'll even publish the entire cost plan, but I'm not yet decided on that.

Back in 2012, or it might have been 2013, these were all available from MB, but I bought mine (OEM) from autohausaz.com. All in all, it turned out to be a much cheaper deal than buying from the UK, or even Germany, excluding shipping for which I've managed to pay nothing.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 03 September 2015, 06:58 AM
QuoteThe car's mechanicals are coming along nicely.  I bet there are still quite a few components to be refurbished.  Are you going to do any plating in the engine bay? 

Actually, not that many. The tranny was rebuilt about 16k miles ago, but it made sense to have the seals refreshed just for the sake of it. Nothing else will be done here. The engine, likewise, needs no work beyond the timing elements, valve cover gaskets, new ignition leads and distributor parts. The entire front and rear suspension, including wheel bearings and rotors,  I've done myself before the restoration started. Mechanically, there is little to be done, which is a testament to the quality of those cars.

As for plating, yes every nut, bolt and bracket that doesn't need replacing will be cleaned and re-plated in gold. I can't wait to see the end result combined with the gold exterior :)

QuoteTell me, are those russet coloured timing chain guides the new ones, I always thought they were a white/ivory colour?
Those are the old ones. The new ones are indeed all semi-white.

QuoteAs I understand it, the guides are very cheap from M-B, and it's better to stick with the originals.
I haven't bought mine from MB, but they're OEM; chain as well.
And yeah, they're cheap in the grander scheme of a project like this.

Quote
You must not forget to get the guys to change those two hoses you can see that are now exposed.  I remember buying that large hose, it was astonishingly eye-wateringly expensive, that goes from the engine block to the water-pump.  I have held mine back until we do this job, then I will swap it over.  At the same time, they should replace the hose clamps if they are shot, but with the type that doesn't pitch the hose (I just bought mine from M-B).  I didn't realise that there was a second smaller hose there...

Well, I did not even think about that bit. Drat.
I'll get them to do it. Thanks for the tip!

Can that hose not be simply substituted with an off-the-shelf, re-inforced automotive hose?
Is there something special in how it's constructed, like a distancing lip or something on the inside?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 03 September 2015, 02:59 PM
Mmm, Lucas


Nothing special about that hose MN 900271 042012, just made from platinum...


;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 03 September 2015, 05:45 PM
42 euros for that hose is not that expensive, but it really looks like a very simple, straight hose. In that way it seems very costly indeed!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 05 September 2015, 01:17 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 03 September 2015, 05:45 PM
42 euros for that hose is not that expensive, but it really looks like a very simple, straight hose. In that way it seems very costly indeed!

The two hoses cost 140EUR combined. 
That's 17.5EUR per centimeter of rubber... nuts!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 06 September 2015, 07:57 PM
What's the other hose's part number?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 07 September 2015, 02:52 AM
The 42mm ID hose is sold by MB by the metre, which is why it ends up expensive.  However, I strongly recommend you use this proper MB stuff, aftermarket hose deteriorates pretty quickly, and its a real bastard to get in there again to replace that hose. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 September 2015, 06:00 PM
Quote from: s class on 07 September 2015, 02:52 AM
The 42mm ID hose is sold by MB by the metre, which is why it ends up expensive.  However, I strongly recommend you use this proper MB stuff, aftermarket hose deteriorates pretty quickly, and its a real bastard to get in there again to replace that hose.

Thanks for the tip.
I suspect though that any modern OEM hose should do just fine, and will be reasonably priced.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 September 2015, 06:11 PM
Some fresh pics from today.

Paint prep is going well.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/7mw3hsiw2mjpuho/ZV9485_00694.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/c21141oazd1neso/ZV9485_00696.JPG?dl=1)

Some freshly plated parts.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/49wg5o4ozawr5lc/ZV9485_00697.JPG?dl=1)

Engine with new chain, gears and guides installed.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/63ghvn06mmu1puw/ZV9485_00698.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/anh5m4rmiwgyt2z/ZV9485_00699.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 September 2015, 06:16 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 06 September 2015, 07:57 PM
What's the other hose's part number?

A1162034082 - 59.49EUR/each
N900271042012 - 99.81/m

(inclusive of 19% German VAT)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 08 September 2015, 08:40 PM
A1162034082 - 59.49EUR/each (21 euro nex vat at my man's)
N900271042012 - 99.81/m (42 euro ex btw at my man's)

Watch out where you overspend..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 September 2015, 02:49 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 08 September 2015, 08:40 PM
A1162034082 - 59.49EUR/each (21 euro nex vat at my man's)
N900271042012 - 99.81/m (42 euro ex btw at my man's)

Watch out where you overspend..

Parts cost is one thing, VAT and shipping are another. Then there's non-EU import taxes and duties, often designed to be prohibitive.

It can be a false economy; just like those damn non-OEM fenders I've bought.

I've settled on two suppliers who may not be the cheapset of the lot, but are very reliable and geographically close to where I need the parts, hence shipping is usually very cheap.

If you have tested and reliable suppliers of new OEM parts in the EU, please send their details on :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 11 September 2015, 08:00 AM
This specific one is from maff.ro. Inside EU, no extra taxes. Use a friend with a courier-account to have TNT, DHL or some, go do a pick-up.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 11 September 2015, 09:02 PM
Just found this: A complete green interior for sale. Does it help?
http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/auto-onderdelen/interieur-en-bekleding/m959413360-mooi-groen-interieur-mercedes-w116-s-klasse-280-360-450-se.html?c=8c285449651fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr&lr_snippet=horizontalRichSnippet
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 11 September 2015, 09:12 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 11 September 2015, 09:02 PM
Just found this: A complete green interior for sale. Does it help?
http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/auto-onderdelen/interieur-en-bekleding/m959413360-mooi-groen-interieur-mercedes-w116-s-klasse-280-360-450-se.html?c=8c285449651fa109c354bbabe740c1b&previousPage=lr&lr_snippet=horizontalRichSnippet

Thanks, but I think I've got mine sorted (i.e. it's being made by UPH/KHM as we speak).
It's a pretty decent looking interior though.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 11 September 2015, 09:17 PM
I had read that, yes, but just in case you have parts missing..
How are you going to do the vinyl parts? Get/keep/clean all parts in green, or are you going to do a vinyl-respray?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 12 September 2015, 06:33 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 11 September 2015, 09:17 PM
I had read that, yes, but just in case you have parts missing..
How are you going to do the vinyl parts? Get/keep/clean all parts in green, or are you going to do a vinyl-respray?

Surprisingly enough, my interior is complete. There's a few small dings or cracks here and there, yet nothing that would stand out unless you know where to look. Apart from a good cleaning and seat cover / carpet / headliner swap, nothing else will be done with the dash, or side panels.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 12 September 2015, 09:23 PM
Lucky you!.. well, at least in that department.. Your basic chassis was quite another story..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 October 2015, 11:45 AM
-
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 October 2015, 11:58 AM
After weeks of waiting, and an impossibly prolonged Polish customs clearance (and 28% in duties and taxes!) my new seat, headrest, armrest covers and headliner have all finally arrived from World Upholstery.
We'll see soon enough if they fit as good as they look.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/49wg5o4ozawr5lc/ZV9485_00697.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/63ghvn06mmu1puw/ZV9485_00698.JPG?dl=1)

Meanwhile some engine auxiliaries are getting glass-bead blasted:
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/7mw3hsiw2mjpuho/ZV9485_00694.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/1cw3n3pzvbhkddc/ZV9485_00695.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/c21141oazd1neso/ZV9485_00696.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 October 2015, 12:05 PM
Ooops, looks like one the previosu posts has had its pics messed up...
Let's try again then.

Paint prep is going well.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/ut1x8vwcxaiqwdy/ZV9485_00700.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/d0hu10y6zq8mhi8/ZV9485_00702.JPG?dl=1)

Some freshly plated parts.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/h4ose7d5camaysm/ZV9485_00703.JPG?dl=1)

Engine with new chain, gears and guides installed.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/jgwn6jtotjsrtat/ZV9485_00704.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/abmo74ppn1czheb/ZV9485_00705.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 October 2015, 08:13 PM
Something interesting I've noticed today about my car, going through its documentation yet again. The older it gets, the more it drives. Kind of.

Between 1994 and 2008 she's covered, on average, 719 miles per year as per road worthiness certificates, going from 46273 in 1994 to 56350 in 2008. And then another 3650(ish) between 2008 and 2012. Then I've come along and clocked 9000 miles in 12(ish) months :D.

Another random, but interesting, tidbit from all the dozens of invoices - the cost of A1168850321 (bumper rubber) has gone up from £7.92 to £20 since 2001, with only a 2.5% change in UK VAT rate...
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 11 October 2015, 01:21 AM
Should still be 9 Pounds 52, EX vat.. like in some other places
Stealerships.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 11 October 2015, 03:27 PM
Hi Lucas


The engine is looking good, I know that I should be looking to do the same: those chain followers look great!  The bodywork is coming on, it'll look so transformed when they shoot the first bit of colour.


Whilst I've not done 9000 miles miles in Mrs W, I'm not scared to use her (during the summer at least).  I think I've done about 4500 since getting her.  My daily does less than 2000 miles a year, don't drive much living in London.  Come to think of it, I last drove Mrs White down to Goring-by-Sea in July to get started.  It's looking more like it will be trailered back to storage when the job is complete, as we'll be in the thick of winter, with salty roads...


Happy 116'ing,


Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: polymathman on 11 October 2015, 05:00 PM
As impractical/impossible as it might be, I would love to have all those spinning, whirling, tapping, rotating, sliding machined-to-perfection parts shown in glass like a fancy watch. I have done the most beautiful work on a cylinder head, and hidden it with a valve cover.
So it goes.
Nice work!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 13 October 2015, 09:30 PM
I think my parts buying bonanza is nearing the finish line. Except for new window regulators, and a few items I can safely skip, I've got everything on my "to replace" list.
Current total stands at 205 unique part numbers... phew!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 14 October 2015, 07:35 AM
That pretty much sums me up as well. Regulators and a couple of rear lights.
Look into having regulators refurbished. I hear it's very much possible, and affordable.

205 part numbers.. You are clearly more disciplined than I am. ;D

I am SO looking forward to seeing your car put back together!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 October 2015, 10:49 AM
I am holding off on buying the regulators because, frankly, they're just not worth the price by any standard. It's a terrible design, and just bound to break quickly.

What I plan on doing is using a spare door from my 350 to experiment with an alternative design, more close to proven parts of modern cars. Maybe even adopt something off-shelf.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 15 October 2015, 03:36 AM
Updates are welcome!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 20 October 2015, 03:38 PM
Another small update... (progress has been rather slow recently).
All panels are finished, primed and ready for final coat of paint. The chassis will be primed and painted starting next week, and when everything is nicely baked and hardened, it'll be time to re-assemble this beauty. With some luck, she might be ready by end of January.

Ready for epoxy primer
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/56r5ln9welr95kg/ZV9485_00708.jpg?dl=1)

Epoxy primed
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/fo9i948i3txrr7q/ZV9485_00707.jpg?dl=1)

Base coat primed
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/4vhz7rjhu1fwbab/ZV9485_00709.jpg?dl=1)

So the main layers will go something like this: KTL epoxy coat, epoxy primer, base coat primer, icon gold metallic, top coat
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 20 October 2015, 03:44 PM
Quote from: gavin116 on 11 October 2015, 03:27 PM
Whilst I've not done 9000 miles miles in Mrs W, I'm not scared to use her (during the summer at least).  I think I've done about 4500 since getting her.  My daily does less than 2000 miles a year, don't drive much living in London.  Come to think of it, I last drove Mrs White down to Goring-by-Sea in July to get started.  It's looking more like it will be trailered back to storage when the job is complete, as we'll be in the thick of winter, with salty roads...

I probably won't drive as much once she's done. First and foremost because my aim is to get an agreed valuation insurance for her, and those policies always come with strict mileage rules down here.
And, funnily enough, my car is likely to go straight into storage as soon as she's done, if it's still winter - I'll be driving her back across Europe (why wouldn't I, right?), so it needs to be nice and warm, with no salt on the roads.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 22 October 2015, 12:59 PM
Looking really good. I think I would want to ship it back in a container after all the work you have done.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gf on 24 October 2015, 06:07 PM
Cant wait to see when the gold paint goes on :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 25 October 2015, 06:29 PM
A couple more pics from the paint shop. Chassis is all primed, getting ready for base coat.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/y91lijx8j7hb2ky/ZV9485_00711.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/w5h29ijnh2zr0qz/ZV9485_00714.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 26 October 2015, 02:03 AM
Hi Lucas


You've reached a milestone!   ;)


Congratulations
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 28 October 2015, 09:40 PM
It's a milestone alright :)

But I've also hit the limits of my patience with the upholsterer. Suffice to say his delays cost me the chance of restoring my interior to factory spec, as the moss green velours became NLA between me giving the go-ahead and him finally telling me how much fabric is needed, several months later. He's not learned his lesson. Some trades people are just broken like that...

Meanwhile, a few more pics fresh off the press. At least the restorer is not sitting on his hands.

One step closer to being Goldilocks-proper again. That's the cleanest W116 underside I have ever seen - 100% rust-free for once! :)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/15i9sjb0daqmh94/ZV9485_00720.jpg?dl=1)

Engine covers after glass bead blasting. They've cleaned up rather nice, and should look well with all the re-plated nuts and bolts.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/z5vtduul4e330i9/ZV9485_00722.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 29 October 2015, 06:51 AM
Very nice, wish my car was at that stage. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 29 October 2015, 09:02 AM
..Or mine. I'm gonna be clean out of a mechanic 4 weeks from now, and no replacement in sight.. :-\
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 03 November 2015, 01:29 PM
I've managed to buy a "brand new" front grille assembly for my final stash recently, with the frame, plastic insert, chrome garnish, seal and bolts. All it needs is a new star and emblem.

I'm saying "brand new" as I'm not 100% convinced. It may be fresh replated for all I know. But for €250 with shipping, it's not a bad deal either way. One less thing to worry about :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 05 November 2015, 06:16 PM
Well, bad news. The "ninja" upholsterer told me to go .... myself after two years of having done absolutely nothing. He's got a queue of clients several years ahead, and can randomly boot people out of it when they make demands that don't suit him. He doesn't care, because he doesn't have to. But anyway... there's no such things as a problem free project. So, upwards and onwards.

Meanwhile, the underside and wheel arches all got sealed with what's known here as "Sikaflex", and the entire chassis is getting painted tomorrow.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: slfan on 05 November 2015, 07:26 PM

Car is looking great!  Congratulations and please maintain us informed of the progress.

Good Luck,

Slfan
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 November 2015, 05:29 PM
On the bad-news front: I'm still looking for an automotive upholsterer who's not a raging megalomaniac.
On the good-news front: The chassis has been re-sprayed back to its original colour! Will post pics as soon as I get them.
The car is expected to be ready for collection within three months, if no delays happen.

Meanwhile, here's a couple pics from the underside sealing process. Seams got manually sealed (I rather prefer it over machine sealing) and than a layer of undercoat was sprayed on top of it all.
It's a much thinner layer than what the factory applied back in 1979, and I think it's better this way. Time will tell.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/hwi86s66mlr1dan/ZV9485_00724.jpg?dl=1)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/vcw6isds1ntugf7/ZV9485_00727.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 November 2015, 07:18 PM
Time for an update! Here's Goldie in here brand new, factory correct Icon Gold.

Pics are from a smartphone, hence rather blurry and with a bit washed out colours due to fluorescent light - hoping to get better ones from the restorer soon. Also, for some reason they appear upside down on the site. Follow the link below each pic for full-res version that might show right.

She's becoming a car again.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/rinpe7lt2opwjqi/ZV9485_00741.jpg?dl=1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rinpe7lt2opwjqi/ZV9485_00741.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rinpe7lt2opwjqi/ZV9485_00741.jpg?dl=0)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/9agy6xobnp5x0ag/ZV9485_00729.jpg?dl=1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9agy6xobnp5x0ag/ZV9485_00729.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9agy6xobnp5x0ag/ZV9485_00729.jpg?dl=0)

Blurry or not... that shine!
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/yj8j8iugkadgh8z/ZV9485_00746.jpg?dl=1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yj8j8iugkadgh8z/ZV9485_00746.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yj8j8iugkadgh8z/ZV9485_00746.jpg?dl=0)

Like-new front axle (well, most of it actually is brand new)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/8j94aohodsitxcz/ZV9485_00740.jpg?dl=1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8j94aohodsitxcz/ZV9485_00740.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8j94aohodsitxcz/ZV9485_00740.jpg?dl=0)

New sound deadening (StP Silver). The original floor mats are terrible, even when new. They're also massive long-term moisture reservoirs.
These are water and fungus resistant by design, and adhere tight to the covered surface. The firewall reuses its old mat, laid tight over the new one.
I expect a much quieter interior as a result. That's stuff you don't see when the car is complete, so veering off from originality is not an issue.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/bamn9h9eoh81r8e/ZV9485_00737.jpg?dl=1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bamn9h9eoh81r8e/ZV9485_00737.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bamn9h9eoh81r8e/ZV9485_00737.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:52 PM
just a little help here..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:53 PM
second
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:53 PM
third
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:55 PM
fourth

Making sure these pics are there to stay, even after Dropbox falls apart
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 November 2015, 08:57 PM
Quotejust a little help here..

Looks like the EXIF data, and with it the orientation tag is getting lost in transit Dropbox -> Org -> Viewer device, hence the weird upside down pics.
Probably some re-compression happening in the process, which drops the metadata. Oh well, technology. The links should work fine. They do in all of my browsers.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 November 2015, 08:58 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:55 PM
Making sure these pics are there to stay, even after Dropbox falls apart

Quick, someone call the copyright police!
(just kidding :))
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:59 PM
Besides the obvious comments of glory.. I notice you did not spray the inner boot, and it looks as if the cabin firewall is also not done in gold. Are they not the same color as per factory? Do they get an extra black coat, or just a black primer?

And what do you use for insulation? is it sticky on one side, or do you use some form of glue?
Have you studied alternative brands offering similar products?
Do you have the chemical make-up of this foil? is it closed-cell?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 November 2015, 09:42 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 18 November 2015, 08:59 PM
Besides the obvious comments of glory.. I notice you did not spray the inner boot, and it looks as if the cabin firewall is also not done in gold. Are they not the same color as per factory? Do they get an extra black coat, or just a black primer?

From factory, boot floor is black, internal fender and wheel well surfaces are body colour. But it's a thin overspray, rather than a proper coat, except for the floors. It looks like a half-hearted job.
Mine's done with several layers of primer, just like the body, and a proper semi-matt black coat. Way better than what left the factory + not fully finished just yet.
The firewall is already covered with sound proofing, hence the black.

QuoteAnd what do you use for insulation? is it sticky on one side, or do you use some form of glue?
StP sound deadening mats. I think they've used Silver on the floor, or Black. Will need to ask.
It's self-adhesive, quite flexible and sticks like there's no tomorrow.

QuoteHave you studied alternative brands offering similar products?
Not studied, but briefly looked at what's available. It all looks the same, just goes by different brand names and prices.

QuoteDo you have the chemical make-up of this foil? is it closed-cell?
It's a butyl rubber (Polyisobutylene) based compound, with a top layer of aluminium foil. Closed cell for certain - it's gas impermeable.
Search for "StP Atlantic", they're the folks that make it.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: beagle2022 on 18 November 2015, 10:13 PM
It has been a privilege to watch this journey so far.  It looks magnificent! Congratulations on a job well done.  I look forward to the next exciting episode.  Thankyou so much for sharing this adventure.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 19 November 2015, 02:23 AM
Well done Lucas!  Can't wait to see the car completely re-assembled.  I hope you will have it professionally photographed when finished, both inside-and-out.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 19 November 2015, 06:00 AM
Also wondering, once assembled, what buy-offers will look like, considering this is a Concourse job, not? (even though you're not selling)
Even though yours is a 450, unlike my 280, it should still be a good indication.

I take it you have seen this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-450-SEL-6-9-/281850001903?ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:GB:1123

For a not-concourse 6.9, that's not too shabby!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 19 November 2015, 06:30 AM
Well done,very nice.  I've used dynamat which is similar in several W123's and there is a noticeable improvement in cabin noise levels. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 19 November 2015, 04:53 PM
A few more chassis pics, this time with daylight and in focus.

Proper gold
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/rfnjkfax6e93u3a/ZV9485_00749.jpg?dl=1)

Rust proofing in progress
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/op8xp2agjeiym9b/ZV9485_00751.jpg?dl=1)

Roof insulation completed
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/o614ogfp7kvyp9w/ZV9485_00755.jpg?dl=1)

And for comparison, this is the "original" gold on the car when I bought it.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/hqdbwxdz2w5d5o4/CIMG1368.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 19 November 2015, 07:21 PM
Is there a trick to havin the inner fenders look like that?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 20 November 2015, 03:43 AM
One needs to apply a stonechip product before the colour goes on.  Here's a thread I wrote about doing this on a W123 :

http://www.m-100.co/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7657&whichpage=1 (http://www.m-100.co/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7657&whichpage=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 December 2015, 05:16 PM
It took me close to 3 years to find one of these, but finally I've got one.
They're plentiful for the 280... not so much for anything else.

I've lined up a Classic Data valuer to give me an extended appraisal after the project is done. It includes full mechanical assessment, test drive, general condition and originality assessment. Their valuations are one of the most respected in Europe, with MB themselves using their services. It'll hopefully make getting an agreed value insurance policy much easier. We'll see what note I can squeeze out of it with my anti-concourse attitude to this whole "owning a classic" malarkey ;)

Apart from that, nothing much to report since the last time.

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 10 December 2015, 10:46 PM
Shouldn't that radio-delete panel say "450SE 6.9" ? ;D
I still think it hurts the eyes.
I would have it for appraisal only, and then remove it for a Becker, after the anal-ist has left the building.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 11 December 2015, 04:38 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 10 December 2015, 10:46 PM
Shouldn't that radio-delete panel say "450SE 6.9" ? ;D
I still think it hurts the eyes.
I would have it for appraisal only, and then remove it for a Becker, after the anal-ist has left the building.

When I drive my 450 I rarely have the radio on. Actually, the only time I remember using it for a time was when driving the car 2400km across Europe. Becker or no Becker, they're all a steaming pile of junk when combined with the W116 speakers (or rather, noise generators).

Also, my car would've had one of this from factory. It's radio is dealer installed post-delivery, and a Blaupunkt too ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 11 December 2015, 10:02 AM
Sure, I would never suggest getting Beckers for sound. It's "looks" only.
The point is -for me- to not have a radio-delete plate, and having a Becker serves that purpose.
For sound, there are 24DAC options, developed in the 21st century..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 11 December 2015, 12:15 PM
The roar of a perfectly tuned V8 is all I need for sound :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 11 December 2015, 12:48 PM
Ahh..a purist..
Nothing wrong with that.
But with my sons called Floyd and Fela, you may imagine I need my tunes..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 11 December 2015, 05:04 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 11 December 2015, 12:48 PM
Ahh..a purist...

Who wouldn't want to listen to that all the time:
https://youtu.be/c8pqaOCKEG0
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 11 December 2015, 06:37 PM
"Who wouldn't want to listen to that all the time"

I second that!
;)


P.S. I have that same radio delete plate, but technically it's wrong for our cars, we need the zebano delete plate.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 11 December 2015, 07:02 PM
Quote from: gavin116 on 11 December 2015, 06:37 PM
P.S. I have that same radio delete plate, but technically it's wrong for our cars, we need the zebano delete plate.

Those existed with wood trim? Wow. I didn't know that.
I guess that can be done with some recycled trim. The important bit is the type designation.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 December 2015, 08:53 AM
A few fresh pics from this morning. Yes, the alternator pulley should be black ;)


(http://www.dropbox.com/s/f3awo3xjv8nmd8y/ZV9485_00757.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/rjsg4rccjaojgmr/ZV9485_00761.JPG?dl=1)

Engine's ready to go in!
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/pni7fs26yj81k40/ZV9485_00762.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/syxq9c3uot0uchx/ZV9485_00765.JPG?dl=1)

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 14 December 2015, 03:35 PM
Hi Lucas


It's all looking very good.  You must be excited!  I'm just about ready to sign off on Mrs W, but she'll never attain the heights of Goldilocks.  I was just looking at your engine pictures, and I think there are some hose clamps missing on that large rubber pipe that connects the water-pump/thermostat housing to the block.  Do check it out, you don't want any disasters at this late stage.  I know the picture is a 6.9 engine, but the 450 should be the same.

Keep on 116ing
;)
Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 December 2015, 04:22 PM
Thanks. Yes, well spotted :)
I've already let the guys know about it. There's a few other bits not entirely "right".
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 15 December 2015, 09:28 AM
In a lucky stroke of eBay purchases, I've managed to find another long sought item: new OEM cruise control cable. It's old stock, but still sealed in its original packaging and mint condition. For 46USD with shipping, not a bad deal either. But my favourite is the NOS moss green, mint condition door grip, an item long forgotten by MB dealers. Also sealed in its original packaging, with a production date stamp of October 15, 1979 :D

I've decided to start hunting for those NOS interior trim panels.
If you know of anything moss green (colour code 6054 for trim), let me know.
Must be new, never used and priced within reason.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 17 December 2015, 12:50 AM
I understand the idea of such a hunt. It's not impossible, but a lot of work.
Even f you receive the right color coded parts, it will have been stored in different conditions, one maybe even produced 8 years earlier then the last part you just found..
I would be worried about color differences. Until now, I have always wanted to avoid that risk. I also never found a good alternative to the problem.
When the time comes, my My vinyl trim will be prepped in detail, carefully vinyl-sprayed in identical color, and mounted back onto the car with new rivets and stuff.
I am told the new vinyl spray on sale these days is a lot better then the stuff from a decade ago.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 December 2015, 06:02 AM
Yes, there's always a risk when dealing with coloured stuff. But even when stored in the same spot, the parts age differently. Heck, they age differently in the car, depending on how everything is exposed to sunlight. But with that in mind, it's easier to colour match a set of new parts, where the vinyl pattern is not yet worn out in places, then restoring the pattern first and then colour matching. And if the parts are the right colour shade to begin with, the job is even easier.

I have a complete interior from my 350. I'll make an experiment on it, re-dying the parchment panels in moss green matched to my existing panels.
If it works, I'll have spares galore. If not, well, whatever. That parts car has paid for itself several times over already :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 December 2015, 07:24 AM
Got my exhaust collectors back today from getting restored.
Look at those beauties, in their brand new sandblasted, ceramic coated (inside, and out!) glory :D

The colour is "cast iron" which is how I wanted it. It may be a little darker than OEM.

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 20 December 2015, 05:35 AM
matching luggage? Era-correct..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Samsonite-Suitcase-Train-case-Bag-Set-Avocado-Green-/281868911844?hash=item41a0b244e4:g:54AAAOSwo6lWKnV1
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 20 December 2015, 07:04 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 20 December 2015, 05:35 AM
matching luggage? Era-correct..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Samsonite-Suitcase-Train-case-Bag-Set-Avocado-Green-/281868911844?hash=item41a0b244e4:g:54AAAOSwo6lWKnV1

Tempting. Seems like a reasonable price, too.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 December 2015, 05:36 PM
Another small update from the field.

Rear axle is being put together for final re-assembly. OEM handbrake linkage is on the way, and custom made Copper-Nickel brake circuit pipes are in along with OEM master cylinder. Callipers have been rebuilt, and all bolts re-plated. All new bearings, shaft boots and bushings. New pads and handbrake shoes, new rotors. Axle elements have been stripped down, sandblasted and painted. You could probably only do a better job by buying a brand new, fully assembled axle. It looks pretty darn awesome!

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/ce4hm4pcixdlwqa/ZV9485_00771.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/muocoqtmfkzu42w/ZV9485_00773.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/jcfr3g3l67udvv1/ZV9485_00768.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: revilla on 22 December 2015, 02:32 AM
Waking up to these amazing images makes me want to cancel all my plans for today and go directly to the garage to work in my cars :)

Nice progress Lucas.  Keep us posted and inspired...

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 22 December 2015, 03:18 AM
Hi Lucas

The suspension and brake components look great.  Are you going to coat the hard lines and the other plated components with something to prevent oxidisation, and if so with what?  I think you can get an ATE sticker kit on eBay to replace those on your refurbished brake booster.  As for the grommet you're looking for, try this number in the EPC, I think it's supposed to be of similar dimension: MA107 997 01 08

I would be interested to hear what your resto shop thinks about the build quality, ease of working on (and possible weaknesses of) W116's compared to other Mercedes models, as well as other manufacturers.

Any idea of the finish date?

Keep the updates rolling in,
Gavin


P.S. You should see a good heat reduction under the bonnet with those ceramic coated manifolds.  Certainly something if my manifolds need to be removed for whatever reason.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 22 December 2015, 05:29 AM
Quote from: gavin116 on 22 December 2015, 03:18 AM
Are you going to coat the hard lines and the other plated components with something to prevent oxidisation, and if so with what?

Corrosion resistance is one of the biggest advantages of CuNi pipes, over steel or pure copper. Even when submerged in salt brine for days, they only show superficial oxidisation. So, with that in mind I don't have any plans to coat these. As for all the other plated stuff, I haven't thought about it much yet. Any recommendations?

QuoteI would be interested to hear what your resto shop thinks about the build quality, ease of working on (and possible weaknesses of) W116's compared to other Mercedes models, as well as other manufacturers.

They have rebuilt multiple Iso Grifo's in the last few years, some Tatra and Citroen models, and probably a lot more they're not talking about.
The Iso's, while even up-to 15x the market value of a perfect 6.9, are apparently a nightmare to rebuild. Custom, hand made coachwork, poor original build quality and lack of parts. Dead gorgeous when done though! They were surprised how readily available parts are for the W116, but comparatively the cars they usually work on are from earlier times and more exotic - so it may be just that. I'll need to ask about their opinion on the engineering. I haven't actually thought of that before :)

QuoteAny idea of the finish date?

Mid-February "worst case".
But I'm in no rush.

QuoteP.S. You should see a good heat reduction under the bonnet with those ceramic coated manifolds.  Certainly something if my manifolds need to be removed for whatever reason.

The company where I got them done (Hipeco in Poland, 110EUR with VAT) makes claims of up-to 30% surface temperature reduction. We'll see :)

Thanks for the grommet and sticker tip. Definitely worth checking out.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 22 December 2015, 01:26 PM
a photo of that ATE sticker would be welcomed.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 December 2015, 08:25 AM
Delivered just in time for some holiday reading.
Picking correct nuts, bolts and washers should be much easier now.
The entire thing is 158 pages long; its a 1989 edition but is largely identical to the 1980 edition that was circulating on the web at some point.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/1ch48x4qk9bc42s/cover.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/7o0c8hx3qoy21bg/sample_1.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/uqedumkifiglm57/sample_2.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/c50n3vl05d4jkln/sample_3.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 24 December 2015, 09:10 PM
In what specific ways is this book helpful to your project?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 25 December 2015, 01:40 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 24 December 2015, 09:10 PM
In what specific ways is this book helpful to your project?

Similar to how the "Tabellenbuch" tells you if you have the right torque for a bolt, or correct fluid for the transmission, this one tells you if you have the right grade of same bolt, right kind of washer for it etc.
It's not model specific in any way, but contains DIN standard references making picking 3rd party replacements, if needed, trivial. Many items also have notes on all applicable finishes, which I guess is invaluable for "concourse" type restorations.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 25 December 2015, 01:44 PM
Meanwhile a surprise, given my car has 69k miles from new - oil pressure damper membrane was damaged.
I'm not certain how this would have had affected the circuit, but there you go. Not something I'd expect at all.
Cost of repair (i.e.: new membrane): ~15EUR.

Left is the old membrane, right is the new one. Quite a difference.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/kjsgh7t796wzeu1/ZV9485_00774.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 25 December 2015, 05:37 PM
So this book tells you DIN standards of mb part numbers(bolts, screws etc) and allows you to pick perfect aftermarket replacements.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 07 January 2016, 07:38 PM
Not much to write home about in terms of work on the car has happened since recent update, apart from the last large batch of parts arriving (haven't I said that before?  :o).
This time: handbrake wires, new battery, intake collector gaskets and seals, and shiny new windshield.

The guys have been given polymathman's video to study (for which they're very thankful!) before going anywhere near the job. Heck, they even got a tube of Sil-Glyde to help them :D

I don't think I'll be buying any more parts of the "significant" variety, so I've decided to publish a semi-complete list of stuff replaced during this project. A lot of it is chassis and engine number specific. Item names are partially in "EPC" German, partially in "EPC" English, but there's part numbers to help out if you wish to look up what's what. I haven't listed quantities at all, there's no point.

So, here it is: https://goo.gl/WgoZlB (https://goo.gl/WgoZlB).
Maybe it helps someone.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: polymathman on 09 January 2016, 12:02 AM
Make sure they view the updated video on YouTube.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 12 January 2016, 08:17 PM
It was a slow week, so I've looked more into the radio that came with my car - a Blaupunkt Coburg Stereo CR. I've never really known or cared much about it ;)
I've managed to dig up an old Blaupunkt catalogue from 1979 (http://www.dropbox.com/s/peiqx3uq7fia0un/Blaupunkt_1979_Autoradio_Programme.pdf?dl=0), and it turns out at the time this was the second best offering from them, bested only by the Berlin model. Technically very much on-par with any of the Beckers in MBs own offering. Blaupunkt being Bosch (at the time), that radio is more at home in a Benz than I thought. And I happen to have all the original manuals (http://www.dropbox.com/s/z855ow1xm3eq8t0/blaupunkt_docs.jpg?dl=0) that came with it too. I might keep it as an option after all... (switched off ;))
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 13 January 2016, 05:35 PM
Two fresh pics from today.
The car is back on wheels, and engine with gearbox are going in tomorrow or Friday.

In the meantime I need to get both the oil and water radiator fixed. The oil radiator has a half-stripped thread on the bottom line attachment, and while it hasn't leaked before, there's no point leaving it like this.
The water radiator simply needs a new core. It shouldn't be overly complicated or expensive to fix both in a reputable shop (famous last words...)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/78m4t07atosz0ww/ZV9485_00775.JPG?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/bwrm018qbndexs2/ZV9485_00776.JPG?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 15 January 2016, 09:40 AM
How did you refurbish the whole firewall insulation? The rubbery black carpet that is so visible? Is that a recreation from scratch or an MB part?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 15 January 2016, 05:22 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 15 January 2016, 09:40 AM
How did you refurbish the whole firewall insulation? The rubbery black carpet that is so visible? Is that a recreation from scratch or an MB part?

It's the original one that came with the car from factory. Just got cleaned up and re-glued properly.
It might be available as a part, EPC should know.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 16 January 2016, 04:53 AM
Considering my poor EPC skills, I would surely appreciate a part number...
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 16 January 2016, 04:52 PM
There are two part numbers.  116-682-07-26 seems to be of the majority, and the earlier cars seemed to have gotten 116-826-08-26.  As usual, neither one of them are available. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 17 January 2016, 11:38 AM
Cleaned all the muck off glued it back where it was loose and gave it a coat of tyre paint to brighten it up. Looks fine.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 17 January 2016, 08:08 PM
Thanks for the tip. I was a tad worried. This part indeed seems NLA as can be..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 20 January 2016, 07:40 PM
More updates!

The good:

The bad:

Some pics (linked, since the forum software again insists on rotating them the wrong way).

http://www.dropbox.com/s/jd6cmmoiu771nxi/ZV9485_781.JPG?dl=0 (http://www.dropbox.com/s/jd6cmmoiu771nxi/ZV9485_781.JPG?dl=0)
http://www.dropbox.com/s/052hyqphq28evdy/ZV9485_791.JPG?dl=0 (http://www.dropbox.com/s/052hyqphq28evdy/ZV9485_791.JPG?dl=0)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 20 January 2016, 09:10 PM
Quote from: marku on 17 January 2016, 11:38 AM
Cleaned all the muck off glued it back where it was loose and gave it a coat of tyre paint to brighten it up. Looks fine.

Found one in Germany... 380 euros! even with 20% less taxes, that's still pretty insane, not?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 20 January 2016, 09:27 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 20 January 2016, 09:10 PM
Quote from: marku on 17 January 2016, 11:38 AM
Cleaned all the muck off glued it back where it was loose and gave it a coat of tyre paint to brighten it up. Looks fine.

Found one in Germany... 380 euros! even with 20% less taxes, that's still pretty insane, not?

At that price, I'd just restore the old one. If it were damaged, I'd not even bother with that and would just use high-temp matts cut to size.
Insanity must have some limits :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 20 January 2016, 09:53 PM
Wow, that engine bay is looking so factory fresh, it isn't even funny!! It's coming along nicely.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 01:42 AM
My word..that engine.. what can I say? Are you really gonna drive this car daily? Can't imagine. I'd be out on the roof with a shotgun, hunting for over-flying pigeons and skateboard punks.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 21 January 2016, 04:43 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 21 January 2016, 01:42 AM
My word..that engine.. what can I say? Are you really gonna drive this car daily? Can't imagine. I'd be out on the roof with a shotgun, hunting for over-flying pigeons and skateboard punks.

Certainly not daily. I didn't drive it daily even before the restoration.
But most certainly whenever I can, and when the Irish weather permits.

I'll probably be buying a shotgun or AA gun from a tank as "optional equipment", too :D
Pigeons beware indeed!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 02 February 2016, 07:48 PM
I did a run through all the documentation that was left with the car, and it appears I have the full factory complement, in original wallet, and in pretty darn good shape too.
I'll be seeing the car in person tomorrow or Thursday, so stay tuned for some fresh pics :)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/pyjsn6qp4t1o07c/IMG_20160202_233009.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 02 February 2016, 09:39 PM
Have you seen any "Protect your Warranty" booklets in German?
And, what is the orange little card in the middle of that picture?

And, a close-up of the white booklet left top, please
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 03 February 2016, 03:02 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 02 February 2016, 09:39 PM
Have you seen any "Protect your Warranty" booklets in German?
And, what is the orange little card in the middle of that picture?

And, a close-up of the white booklet left top, please

No, I haven't seen one of those in German. Might be UK specific.

ID numbers on it:
1. EDV 6540 2756
2. KD 00 102 8007 51 - 478 10

As for the orange card,  it's "Phone numbers emergency services" (actual spelling).

ID numbers on it:
1. EDV 6500 3346
2. KD 00 000 8204 02 - 0578 300

The white booklet is titled "Vehicle Keys" and explains on 8 pages, in 13 languages, that the car came with 4 keys, and outlines the recommended handling of the master key referring to the main user manual.

The only ID number on it is "XI. 78. 30."
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 03 February 2016, 05:45 AM
BTW.. my NLA sticker collection, plus "first 1000KM" sign have been sent out for quality reproductions.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 03 February 2016, 05:30 PM
Hi Stan, are you having this decal reproduced?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 03 February 2016, 06:37 PM
Just in from Goldie's last UK owner :)
It ain't Goodwood, but hey, a winner is a winner!

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/w24dgf7kldt9vt1/2003_show_win.png?dl=1)

p.s.: Ballymoney is a small town (population ~10.5k) in Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: revilla on 04 February 2016, 12:42 AM
digging its history paid off.  that's so cool you've found that pic Lucas !!!!  was that the owner before you? 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 04 February 2016, 03:05 AM
Quote from: revilla on 04 February 2016, 12:42 AM
digging its history paid off.  that's so cool you've found that pic Lucas !!!!  was that the owner before you?

I got it from the last UK owner. There was one other Irish owner between the two of us.

Tom is trying to find more documents, although most of it went to the first Irish owner who never passed it on to me. Trying to recover these is a task for the next few weeks.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 04 February 2016, 08:34 AM
News flash, news flash...
We're on track to have the car on the road by end of February, and under its own power tomorrow or Saturday.

I've just seen it in person for the first time in months. Sure, there are some minor nits that need correcting, as with any project, but the summary effect is just insane. It really is a sight to behold. I've seen new cars that looked worse. Both the front and rear axle, when all was put together looks as if they'd just left the factory, minus the minute layer of workshop dust. The engine bay is pristine. The interior is being prepped for re-assembly. The paint job is of highest quality even without any polishing yet. The underside... just wow :)

Click pics for a full-resolution version.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/bkj90j2ih30wl4h/ZV9485_00831.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/91p8yvalxh87l5f/ZV9485_00800.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/7c007lq6tqbnx4v/ZV9485_00807.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/scgh0y7eiw0yvza/ZV9485_00811.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/mb9tlb4eqvr31cf/ZV9485_00812.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/hk6t7ng6rexzwvw/ZV9485_00813.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/57xrae127jzqqnf/ZV9485_00814.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/57icdz4rhtb9qlt/ZV9485_00817.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/8f7zu11pzg7fg8m/ZV9485_00818.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/qiowngua1jp1vin/ZV9485_00820.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/3petradg9pbqtdj/ZV9485_00821.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/kap60exg8wjfo4w/ZV9485_00828.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 04 February 2016, 09:23 AM
Hi Lucas

That is really looking good.  A true bolt up restoration, what a thing to behold.  This must surely be the best restoration on this site ever!  You must be very happy with the results, I know I would be if it were mine.

Keep 116ing,

Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 04 February 2016, 09:36 AM
My oh my oh my... what a sight for weary eyes.. Drool, drool and more drooling.
I am just playing with the Concourse concept, but you have made it for real!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 04 February 2016, 10:32 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 04 February 2016, 09:36 AM
I am just playing with the Concourse concept, but you have made it for real!

Wait until you see the data-plate-incorrect interior, you might have some doubts.
I've seen it today first time, and while the seats are a 100% match to the dash and panels, the carpets are olive green, not moss green (i.e. dark, deep green instead of light, yellow-green). The door cards won't be ribbed either, but made of the same carpet material as the floor carpets. Same for the rear parcel shelf.

But it's not in yet, and may actually look very decent when assembled.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 04 February 2016, 02:26 PM
Wow, they "pimped-out" that engine bay. Are those aluminum trailing arms?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 04 February 2016, 05:32 PM
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 04 February 2016, 02:26 PM
Wow, they "pimped-out" that engine bay. Are those aluminum trailing arms?

I blame all those brochures :)

Yes, those are aluminium trailing arms. Are those different on a 300SD?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 04 February 2016, 06:02 PM
I thought all trailing arms on a W116 and w123 were steel. I hear people like to use aluminum ones from certain models of W126. Pretty neat. I have thought about doing the conversion some day.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 04 February 2016, 06:56 PM
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 04 February 2016, 06:02 PM
I thought all trailing arms on a W116 and w123 were steel.

Conversely, I though all had aluminium :)
Maybe it's one of those market dependant things again?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 05 February 2016, 04:26 AM
The rear trailing arms are steel for models without anti-squat

They are aluminium for models with anti-squat. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 05 February 2016, 06:04 AM
OK..that's interesting.
Are there part number differences between the alu and steel ones?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 05 February 2016, 07:21 AM
I should think there would be a difference, they have different brake caliper mounting points, and different link arrangements to the antiroll bar. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 05 February 2016, 07:57 AM
so, with anti-squat, there d be those to change as well?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: rumb on 05 February 2016, 08:10 AM
the 6.9 anti squat uses a lot of different items in the rear. Look in EPC and you will see.  35 rear axle, page 3 vs 4

also the rear sway bar is different
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 05 February 2016, 06:18 PM
Goldie got powered up today. The way the guys did it was that they left the old injectors in, just in case some dust/particles were still left in the brand new fuel lines. She did power up, but is idling very rough and isn't firing on all cylinders. Basically, what the guys predicted has happened. They're flushing the system again, and will give it another try tomorrow. But, regardless - she's alive! I hope I can catch a video before flying back home tomorrow.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 05 February 2016, 06:46 PM
This is my favourite before/after shot thus far :)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/i65wf4tq5gl0xlt/rear_axle_before_after.png?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 06 February 2016, 12:29 AM
The bolt under the drive shaft, is that supposed to be covered with a piece of rubber-cap of some sorts, or is the "before" photo's bolt just covered in muck?

Awesome pics, btw..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 February 2016, 04:07 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 06 February 2016, 12:29 AM
The bolt under the drive shaft, is that supposed to be covered with a piece of rubber-cap of some sorts, or is the "before" photo's bolt just covered in muck?

Awesome pics, btw..

It's covered by 36 years of road dirt, mixed with subsequent  layers of greasy undersealant.
But yeah, there is a cap too - A1073570116
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 February 2016, 07:23 PM
Goldie got powered up again on Saturday. Didn't get to see it in the end, but the guys tell me the second attempt went much better than the one on Friday.
She's still idling rough, but they're dealing with it checking for vacuum leaks (some of the gear is still disconnected) etc.
Next try tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I've got my UK sales/dealer brochures set completed.
Entirely unnecessary since none of it came with the car, but these add a nice touch to the project and didn't cost much to collect either.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/2uz0s297n871p3n/ZV9485_00840.jpg?dl=1)

- 1979 UK sales brochure, with model specific technical data for 350SE/450SE/SEL/SEL 6.9
- 1977 upholstery options
- 09/1978 official UK vehicle price list
- 09/1978 official UK factory fitted extras price list
- 1979 UK specific HVAC brochure

Some things that are worth noting based on these - on MY79 UK models, a fire extinguisher (option 538), rear seat belts and nearside (left) mirror were all optional extras available only on request, and at additional cost.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: daantjie on 08 February 2016, 08:37 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 05 February 2016, 06:46 PM
This is my favourite before/after shot thus far :)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/i65wf4tq5gl0xlt/rear_axle_before_after.png?dl=1)

NICE!
I see you have anti squat. Was this standard on all 450's?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 February 2016, 08:33 AM
Quote from: daantjie on 08 February 2016, 08:37 PM
NICE!
I see you have anti squat. Was this standard on all 450's?

According to EPC it was standard for all 450s in all markets, except Japan.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: adamb on 09 February 2016, 05:20 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 05 February 2016, 06:46 PM
This is my favourite before/after shot thus far :)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/i65wf4tq5gl0xlt/rear_axle_before_after.png?dl=1)

OMG! How can you even contemplate taking the car on anything but a perfectly clean road after that?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 February 2016, 05:29 PM
Quote from: adamb on 09 February 2016, 05:20 PM
OMG! How can you even contemplate taking the car on anything but a perfectly clean road after that?

That's something I'm still asking myself too!
But I'm not a fan of trailer queens, so I guess I'll just get over it with time :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 10 February 2016, 12:11 AM
My style is to get things as perfect as possible and then to treat them as carefully as possible while still using them regularly. If chips and scratches happen, oh well. Though to be honest, I never really get anything near perfect. But if I had the money... I hope some day my 300SD will look as nice as your 450SE.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 07 March 2016, 05:39 PM
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 10 February 2016, 12:11 AM
I hope some day my 300SD will look as nice as your 450SE.

I hope it will look better than mine :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 07 March 2016, 05:54 PM
Another deadline has come (Third? Fourth? I've stopped counting!), and passed, and the finish line just keeps on moving. I'm blocked on the upholstery job big time, because there simply isn't anyone around either willing to do it, able to do it, or not asking extortionate rates just to scare me away. It's been 2.5 years since I've last driven the car, almost 2 years since the restoration began, and I'm slowly starting to loose interest in any of it.

Bring out the cheerleaders, I need some motivation folks :D

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 07 March 2016, 08:02 PM
That's the invisible wall I am facing too. I am running out of steam some days.
Really never thought this would be  2-3 year daily occupation..
I can only image you're tired with more time than me on the clock.
Still, can't stop now, eh?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 07 March 2016, 08:08 PM
Keep at it fella, whenever I need motivation to work on my 280 I read what you have been doing here on the Goldilocks thread  - especially the photos and that's the benchmark for the concourse work I'm doing. Nothing compared to your workload however and I fully understand your frustration with the supply chain.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 07 March 2016, 09:21 PM
C'mon Lucas, you can do it!  8)
(http://www.cellyvanlaatzen.de/gallery/image?view=image&format=raw&type=orig&id=70)

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 07 March 2016, 10:44 PM
When you're talking upholstery.. are you talking custom-made velours?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 07 March 2016, 11:11 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 07 March 2016, 10:44 PM
When you're talking upholstery.. are you talking custom-made velours?

No, no, that option has been abandoned a long time ago. It simply isn't economically viable.

The job I'm looking at is fitting the entire custom made RHD carpet set from KHM, including knee panels, centre console and parcel/hat shelf - a total of 27 or 28 individual pieces.
Then on top of that it's re-doing the door cards from the same carpet material, plus swapping all the seat/headrest/armrest covers. It's all made, just needs skilled hands to finish and fit it.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 08 March 2016, 02:28 AM
I am surprised that is a bottleneck in your part of the world..
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 March 2016, 08:23 AM
Thanks for the encouragement folks.
Also, I think we've established with full certainty how many bodies fit into a w116 trunk ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 March 2016, 12:56 PM
Good news. Upholstery job is in progress as of today!

The restorer tells me there's ~250 man-hours remaining until the car will be ready for pickup. If this prediction materialises, it would mean we'll fit the entire project in just under 2000 man-hours total, excluding any auxiliary services contracted out to other vendors (e.g. chroming, plating).

As the job comes to an end I'll start a series of posts about the pitfalls, ups and downs of such an undertaking, in the hope it'll help others considering such restoration. Of course, based purely on my subjective opinion from a single project. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

Let me begin with the obvious.

Should I, or should I not restore my W116 to the extent of this (or similar) projects?
After (almost, for now) having done it, I still think the answer is an ambiguous "it depends".
And it depends on the answer to a very simple question - are you planning on keeping the car indefinitely, or are you planning to sell it on in the future?
For whatever definition of "indefinitely" and "future" you wish to apply.

If the answer is "sell it on", I can honestly say that - from a purely economical standpoint - fully restoring a W116 is pointless. Unless you do all of it yourself, and with global price trends (as of 2016) in mind, it is unlikely you will get any return on your investment in a time frame, where such restoration would still be fresh enough to warrant a high asking price. Perfectly restored and mothballed cars age too, unfortunately, and from my own observations it seems serious collectors will pick an unrestored car, over a restored one, any if they have a choice. Sure, there might exist some special markets where none of this applies (according to floyd111, Taiwan is such a market), but generally - loose all hope of making a buck out of it.

If the answer is "keep it", sky's the limit. Or more seriously, your financial circumstances and own love of the car. This is where the first pitfall comes up: letting passion override sanity. No car is worth getting into trouble over money, so tread carefully, plan as much as you can and have contingency plans for the unexpected. More on that in the next post :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 March 2016, 03:09 PM
This will feel like a Project Management lecture... but please bear with me ;)

Planning and budgeting
Now comes the part where you'll have to find a workshop to do the work for you, start drawing up a budget and a project plan. Ultimately, this is the reality check phase. You can still back out mostly without having incurred any expense.

Before you start looking for a shop, or drawing up a budget, figure out what it is you want to have done to the car. Be as precise as you can.
What's the expected end result? Write it down in detail - this is your battle plan, your sanity anchor and your base budget determinator.

With that in hand, start looking for a shop that is not only willing but also capable of delivering on your plan.
First and foremost, if you find a shop that does give you a detailed cost and duration estimate: run away as if your life depended on it.
What you can expect from a reputable shop that knows what they're doing, is a ball-park man-hour estimate based on past restoration projects similar to what you have in mind (ideally, Mercedes projects too).
Once you have a few candidate places, do your due diligence. Browse the web, talk to past customers if possible, check financial statements (in some countries those are public!)

Now that you have a base plan, and a workshop willing and capable of carrying it out, the next thing is figuring out your budget. From my own chats with people who have done such projects in the past, the rough estimate is a 50/50 split between parts and labour. In my case, it's pretty close to that ratio, so I'd say it's a good base estimate.

Next start browsing the EPC (it's a must!), and build a base list of parts that would be required to achieve the desired end result. This positions you to get a pretty close cost estimate on parts. Send that list to several MB dealers and stockists, and get a valuation. Disregard any discounts applied, add 50% to the highest figure to account for price hikes and you have your parts budget ready. Next, take the rough man-hour estimate you got from the shop (or use 2500 man-hours, which is reasonably generous), multiply by the hourly rate, account for all taxes and mandatory charges, add 50% for labour cost hikes. That's your labour budget. Why 50% markup? I'm a pessimist by design ;) Still, err on the side of worst case estimates.  And don't forget to ask the chosen workshop what their preferred method of payment is - stage by stage, downpayment deposit, lump sum payment after completion, monthly arrears; or a mix of any of those. It will impact how you need to budget for labour, and how much of that budget you must have in your pocket on day 1.

You may have noticed I keep saying "base budget", "base plan", "base parts list". Let me explain: those will change as you progress, and don't trust anyone who tells you different. You will most certainly need to adjust for outsourced services. You may need to adjust your budget and plan downward to account for unexpected events (global recession "2008 edition", anyone?). Or, you could win the lottery tomorrow and never bother counting your pennies ever again. I can't tell you what a good contingency budget markup is - it depends on your own personal circumstances. But do make sure to have some contingency funds planned into your budget.

Add your estimate parts and labour budget figures, contrast that with your financial circumstances and make the call to proceed, or abort. If in doubt - abort.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 March 2016, 06:01 PM
Contracting out the job
There's not much to say here, apart from making sure these few key points are covered in a written, legally enforceable contract:

- start date
- payment terms
- warranty terms
- penalties for breach of contract, and legal jurisdiction (e.g if you're doing the job in another country, or state)

Pretty much a typical contract.

In addition to that, you need to agree on who will be sourcing parts for the project. If you have the budget, let the workshop do it. If not, do it yourself and you may save quite a nice chunk of money. Workshops tend to stick to their local, tried and trusted suppliers and generally won't put in the effort to cast a wide net in search of the best deal. Simply put, they don't care about getting you the best deal.

Sourcing parts
This part should be written by Stan (floyd111) :D
Want to collaborate Stan?

If you haven't yet done so, get a subscription to EPC. No excuses, just do it. Learn how to use the thing, inside and out - this is your 99% accurate source of truth. There simply isn't a better one.
It might not be cheap at 75USD/year (or so) but let's be honest - you're about to spend many thousands more, this is peanuts.

This is where all the fun, tears and stress will be for the duration of your project. Fun of searching, tears of dread when invoices start rolling in, and stress because of shady suppliers.
The W116 still is no Ferrari 250 GTO, and the parts market is mostly a buyers market. Bargain a lot, and bargain hard. If you can, buy in bulk. If not, try to buy in as big batches as you can get, or afford.

Who to buy from? Anyone who has the part you need, and is willing to sell below the price you're ready to pay. Official dealers will be (far) more expensive, but more reliable and mostly providing reasonable warranty and return terms.  The web (eBay, Craigslist and similar sites) is your kingdom, but also your risk and hardly ever with any assurances. I've gone a mixed route of working with four tried and tested MB dealers and scouring the web. Dealer choice was also strategic, to an extent: one in the UK, two in Germany and one in Poland. The German folks were great for the most expensive parts, because of pricing, taxes and discounts. The UK folks were great for initial purchases, before the job started - stuff that I then shipped in, on and with the car. The Polish folks are local to the workshop and therefore best for those smaller, ad-hoc purchases. On scouring the web - you are likely to encounter sellers who think W116 parts are made of platinum, and are trying to sell those at 10x the dealer price. Before you commit, always check in other sources of what the reasonable going rate for that part is. Sure, there are those NLA or super-rare parts which show up once in a blue moon, cost 10x their worth and are gone again in seconds. If you have no choice, you have no choice - buy it (but try bargaining first :)).

I'm sure many purists will disagree, and I'm sure many more experienced folks here will too - but I'm of the opinion that unless you have an unlimited budget, it's OK to compromise in certain aspects and not always go OEM. Yes, it may end up being false economy, but as long as you're aware of that and are OK with the risk, don't sweat it. It's the worst kept secret of the automotive industry, that many so called "OEM like" parts are the exact same thing you'd get at a dealer, just without the OEM branding and often for half the price. Do your research, ask around, see what people are using (not just talking about!), what works, what doesn't. If in doubt, buy OEM.

If you're restoring a very high-mileage car, you may compromise on getting used parts from a lower-mileage car instead of buying new. I think that's false economy, but your budget is what sets the bar here. Stick to it, otherwise it'll end up being an unstoppable runaway freight train. If sourcing used parts, get familiar with local breakers in addition to scouring the web.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 09 March 2016, 09:30 PM
"Sourcing parts
This part should be written by Stan (floyd111) :D
Want to collaborate Stan?"

For any new restorer's sake, having a great passion for W116, plus a large disposable income, is highly preferable. O yes, and time.. lots of available time.
If you're gonna attempt a restoration on a human budget, sourcing parts is big issue. The more detailed the resto, the more parts you'll need, the better shape they need to be in.
For amateurs like me among you, let me tell you loudly: There are way more parts in that car than you could ever imagine!

After doing what Ptashek told you to do, make lists..

1. NLA parts that you must have.
These will take longest to find. They should always be on the forefront of your daily searches.
Making hard choices here can cut off a year from your project.

2. A list of all parts that you need to buy new, MB-made
Use the cheapest supplier, send the complete list out to them for availability and price.
When you can, buy the "almost NLA" parts when you can, and/or if you should.. Don't ship yet.
Buy the rest in bulk, and cut a deal. To be done last. Ship together with the "almost NLA parts"

3. A list of all parts that you may buy aftermarket
Study and choose. Buy all from 1 supplier if possible, in one go and ship together.

4. A list of all parts that you can, or must buy second-hand
Learn the reality of wood, vinyl, velour and leather replacements and restorations. Read blogs.

5. Keep a well-updated stock list, combined in a list that includes the first 4 lists.

Sourcing parts is a lifestyle, a mission, that requires enormous amounts of time, detail and persistence.
The savings that can be had can be 75% to 35%, depending on your location.
I am batting for a 50% saving on all items MB-listed under 150 euros
All items that are listed above 150 euros (and there are many) need to be 50-75% cheaper where possible.

Needless to say, that doesn't always work.
Some stuff simply needs to be bought at top dollar. Learning to distinguish among those costly occasions is a matter of study, agendas, disposable income and time.
Every single part on that car has it's own market story/situation. Know each story.

If you immerse yourself in these searches, you'll learn quickly to find the cheapest MB-suppliers of regular stuff.
See http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/reviving-old-topics-overpriced-stealerships-the-best-alternate-sources!/msg120370/#msg120370
Don't think you're the first to find ECS or SJS.  There are way more sources.

Items under 150 euros: Take your cheapest supplier's MB database (anywhere/worldwide) as a benchmark, remove taxes and remove 20%. That is your hard ceiling. Always pay that, or less.

If you only have an hour per day, that's OK, but make it count, and choose an hour that places you 2100 EU time or 2100 USA time EU time. Best for ebay shopping
Sundays must be a parts-search day. Keep time zones in mind, depending on where you are. USA, 12.00-1800, EU, 1200-1800.

Learn to use eBay filters and servers for different results
Always advise sellers to opt out of the Global Shipping Program. It's theft.
If not, don't buy when possible.
Needless to say, buy within your own continent. So many times, shipping savings balance out part savings.
But, that is not a rule at all! Always check.

www.ebay.de: "select Europe only" twice a day:
www.ebay.de : select "germany only". Twice a day
www.ebay.fr.. basically dead. select France only. Once a month
www.ebay.es: select spain only" Once a week.
www.ebay.it: select italy only: twice a month.
www.ebay.uk: results are included in other searches.
www.ebay.com.au: Select Australia only.: once a week.

Alternate sites
I never use Craigslist.
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de :twice a  day
www.gumtree.com.au, once a week
www.marktplaats.nl, once a week
www.2ehands.be, twice a month.

For those extra, desperate searches:
http://sp.olx.com.br
http://allegro.pl/

As far as statistics go, the honesty levels on all of these sites are 99%
(I have not yet bought from the latter 2)
All 200 suppliers on all these websites have sent me the goods as promised.
(Paypal is a costly guarantee in a world where honesty is a 99% given.)
But then again, I do not buy from Craigslist

Exceptions I saw were when I bought an Onkyo amp in Belgium. Not W116 related, and the amp still arrived. (but non functional)
Twice, I was promised an item, but the seller decided to give it to someone else
3 ebay disputes, got paid twice. eBay messed up the 3rd claim. Lost 50usd.
That's the score after some 200 purchases.

Search always in German and English keywords alike.
French , italian and Spanish language offers are very rare. Don't bother unless you're desperate.
Think of the millions of people on the planet, and imagine how many millions of situations any of them non-ebay savvy, non mechanically trained people may advertise stuff they find in basements.
"W116 Transmission governor" may be sold under the MB number-only, or under "vieille piece Mercedes"
The more money a part is worth to you, the more these variable searches matter.

Google photos can be great, and often is a great tool for finding photos quickly, when using regular or strange keywords.
Use it daily.
But, for those hard searches, don't rely on Google photos alone. So many parts are offered/sold without a photo-tag!
Always check the first 10 text/result pages. Memorize and learn to ignore websites that keep popping up, whatever the question was.

I'll pick this matter up again later.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: beagle2022 on 09 March 2016, 09:36 PM
Thankyou gentlemen.  These insights are priceless.  And that is because you have both clearly paid for all the lessons. Thankyou!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ZCarFan on 09 March 2016, 11:15 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 03 February 2016, 06:37 PM
Just in from Goldie's last UK owner :)
It ain't Goodwood, but hey, a winner is a winner!

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/w24dgf7kldt9vt1/2003_show_win.png?dl=1)

p.s.: Ballymoney is a small town (population ~10.5k) in Northern Ireland.

Ballymoney was Joey Dunlop's home town, correct?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 10 March 2016, 12:30 AM
I have spoken about background searches before

-You may try sending out mass-emails to W116-related part sellers for parts they were not offering
-Always check the backdrop of photos people use to sell items. There may be stuff hiding in plain sight.
-if anyone sells a NOS part, always ask if they have more.
-Place free ads where you can, offering to buy NOS W116 stuff.
-Make clear you are NOT a trader and explain straight up why and how you decide on prices offered. Offer prices near your "hard ceiling" and stick to them.
-Don't overpay because of convenience or impatience, but only if you are sure it won't pop up again soon.
-Beware of NOS Cosmetic parts. Make sure sellers are trustworthy and always get high-res photos first. Take your time checking photos!
-First time sellers, outside Paypal can be risky. I keep a 500usd ceiling for such purchases, or I won't sleep at night.
You can first order and ship a few small items, and see how it goes, before ordering the bulk of it.
-It's better to lose a retaining-downpayment, then to lose 500usd!
-Sellers that offer a pick-up purchase tend to have less to hide.
-Eastern European Sellers have proven to me to be as reliable as others, be it it seems scarier.-and sometimes slower.

Shipping
When you start a project like this, start well. Do not delay building a shipping infrastrcuture

Postal/courier
-learn about Postal rates in the 5 most likely countries
-Always insist sellers use Postal services where possible.
-Always verify shipping rates offered. Put your foot down and negotiate a refund when rates are lower than expected.
-if you have a company, or a friend with a company, arrange for international pick-up contracts with DHL and TNT. 
Fedex, UPS and others like them only offer useless contracts to the likes of us.

International Cargo
-The same contracts are available for ocean cargo and air cargo. Spend ample time comparing the rates per kilo starting from different countries.
-Compare at least 3 cargo shippers. I have, and find that there can be only 1
-Keep checking shippers'rates. They cheat a lot, the moment people simply order a pickup without a clear quote first.
-Try shipping agents as well. I use them happily.
-Do not use couriers for cargo shipments.
-Always insist shipping companies give you a FINAL price per shipment, door-to-door, including all extra costs and sales taxes over those costs, including clearance fees, EXCLUDING import taxes and sales tax over imports.
Only then can you divide kilos/final price, that will give you a final price-per-kilo rate.
-Cargo, unless items are very large, is of no use, unless you ship over 50KG
-100KG per shipment is the sweet spot. Anything bigger is a bonus, but consider spreading your purchases over 100KG batches when economically viable.

The amount of listings that are out there is enormous.
The problem is that you won't need 99% of what is on offer. Wrong part, or wrong price.
With so many possible keywords, my searches contain internationally identical keywords like W116, A116, 280s, 280se, etc.
"W116" is the most effective keyword, with the maximum of results.
Other words are "mercedes vintage" (outside ebay.de) and "Mercedes rar", "mercedes sammler" for ebay.de
Part numbers get searches like A1163332211, A116 333 22 11, 116 333 22 11, 116 333 2211, 116-333-22-11
On eBay, it's the same thing, but add "mercedes" in front of the numeric.

Once you start searching, the first weeks will be about getting into the rhythm, but most importantly, it a process of checking ALL listings, at least once.
After that, you simply select "newly listed" for each fresh search, cutting future search times per source by 99%

If you thought that eBay tricks were going to solve your parts issues, think again. In general, eBay sucks for this job.
W116 parts are nearly always overpriced beyond belief. Days, weeks can go by without a single hit.
The amount of aftermarket parts is a nuisance, and 99% is listed again and again.
eBay is pretty useless as well, when it comes to parts under 75usd. Shipping costs and sourcing efforts ruin everything.
Naturally, all these realities change when you're looking for aftermarket or used parts. That's where eBay offers much better results.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 March 2016, 04:28 AM
Quote from: ZCarFan on 09 March 2016, 11:15 PM
Ballymoney was Joey Dunlop's home town, correct?

It was indeed. And the best part is, Joey and the previous owner of my car were buddies :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 10 March 2016, 02:00 PM
LOL, I knew Stan will completely redefine the term "sourcing parts".

However, the recurring theme is that most of this, if not the whole effort, will be governed by your budget, and whether you have one lump of money to throw at the project, or smaller chunks available at more or less regular intervals. But at the end of the day, whether you're using a more sedate approach like mine, or the all-guns-blazing approach of Stan, you need to dedicate a lot of time to the task. You'll regret it if you don't.

Moving onto the next part...

Execution and oversight
As Stan mentioned, make sure to have a regularly updated parts list, and a record of all expenses for the project. I personally have a 10+ tab spreadsheet, and can account for every cent spent. Fail to do that, and you'll be in trouble in no time. Apply common sense :)

Make sure that your contract with the workshop includes a clause on documenting the project - as they say on the web: "pics, or it didn't happen". Photographic documentation is invaluable for such work. Insist on it, and make sure it's produced as the project progresses. Any workshop worth their salt will make documentation during disassembly, just so they can put the car back the same way. I personally have close to a 1000 images for my project, many of which are on this thread. You may ask "why would I need any of that if I don't plan to sell the car anyway?", which brings us to the next point.

Keep your workshop honest - even the most reputable workshop will cut corners if you don't pay attention. That's just the way it is.
So, demand pics, and either get someone to, literally, audit all work done for you at regular intervals, or do it yourself. It gets tricky if your project is out of country, or state. You'll have to find a way.
But don't micromanage, don't hang on the phone or onsite every day, let the folks work too - after all, they're the professionals. Trust, but verify.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 March 2016, 07:38 AM
Found the radio-delete cover plate in zebrano recently. It carries no type designation, but that should be easy to swap from the one I have, but would involve some drilling. Something I might not want to do ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 31 March 2016, 04:00 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 18 March 2016, 07:38 AM
Found the radio-delete cover plate in zebrano recently. It carries no type designation, but that should be easy to swap from the one I have, but would involve some drilling. Something I might not want to do ;)

Here's how the two blanking plates look like.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/0srg3vwrzojihcp/blanking_plate_front.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/ux6i8pz9k45ifxm/blanking_plate_back.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 31 March 2016, 04:07 PM
Then this arrived today...
It's a pity MB doesn't sell these anymore, it's such a useful set to have in reserve.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/yjlk6ze5vplh9as/lock_set_1.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/rcxp1verxtklb7g/lock_set_2.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 31 March 2016, 04:51 PM
...and there's some news on the restoration front too.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/voqkh54sxaidat5/ZV9485_00846.jpg?dl=1)

Here's an example of what I mean when saying "trust, but verify" when talking about project execution.
Most of you won't have a problem noticing what's wrong in the two pics below. That bit will need to be done again, properly this time.


(http://www.dropbox.com/s/brbe7wfvnerer84/ZV9485_00849.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/5py3xc98eqpa347/ZV9485_00848.jpg?dl=1)

Front seats are ready. Colour match is spot-on, considering the surrounding trim has had 37 years to fade. The World Upholstery made covers have a few places where they could be finished with more attention to detail. Nevertheless, they're still a massive improvement over the worn and tired velours.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/m5cvsitq2dztmep/ZV9485_00853.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/4wxlvnd276t24sa/ZV9485_00850.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/7h6g2smxd18tcca/ZV9485_00854.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/i1qx2s4z8ub6fp4/ZV9485_00851.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: rumb on 31 March 2016, 06:42 PM
Those seats look gorgeous!

Arent those radiator support bars suppose to be black?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 31 March 2016, 07:21 PM
Quote from: rumb on 31 March 2016, 06:42 PM
Arent those radiator support bars suppose to be black?


Good question, and I don't know for sure. I've never seen these in black, and both my cars had the supports painted in chassis colour.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: rumb on 01 April 2016, 07:44 AM
hmmm,  both mine are black.  But mine are 6.9's.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Greg on 01 April 2016, 11:42 AM
My support bars are also black, 1977 280SE built in South Africa...............
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 03 April 2016, 10:58 AM
Mine were black with a strip of body colour where they were fitted to the body. I guess so they would not be seen through the grill. Mine are now all body colour done when the engine bay was resprayed but no doubt I will eventually object to seeing them through the grill.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 04 April 2016, 02:30 AM
Hi Lucas

The car is looking good, but it must be frustrating that these final bits are taking so long.  Im sure when the seats get a little use, the covers will shape that last little bit.

On the radiator support bars, they are originally painted mat black.  They must have been masked on the factory, as all original examples that I have seen, have been over-sprayed in body colour where they meet the front slam panel.

You will see on my "blog" from some shots of the engine bay before, compared with now, where the supports are technically wrong. They need a little 737 where they meet the slam panel, but as it looks neat, and the car will not be entered into concours, I'm not really all that bothered.

Hope you get the 450 back soon,
Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 04 April 2016, 04:55 AM
Right, looks like we have consensus on the support bars being black from factory. I'll let the folks know they need to fix that one :D
Thanks.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 05 April 2016, 01:48 PM
Hmm... every W116 that I've seen in person had the support bars painted the body color. I think even the brochures show body color. But black would hide better behind the grille. That's why I had no problem having mine painted semi gloss black with the air conditioning parts.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 05 April 2016, 03:49 PM
My car is a 1979 and has them coloured the same as the body.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Harv on 05 April 2016, 05:31 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 31 March 2016, 04:51 PM
Most of you won't have a problem noticing what's wrong in the two pics below. That bit will need to be done again, properly this time.[/b]

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/brbe7wfvnerer84/ZV9485_00849.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/5py3xc98eqpa347/ZV9485_00848.jpg?dl=1)

Did they not put the rear window trim in before putting it on the car?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 05 April 2016, 07:48 PM
Quote from: Peter on 05 April 2016, 03:49 PM
My car is a 1979 and has them coloured the same as the body.

So, that's it for you, Peter.. Out of Concourse, haha!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Squiggle Dog on 05 April 2016, 08:14 PM
I'm not sure what's wrong with the photos, either.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: polymathman on 05 April 2016, 08:27 PM
What's going on with the rocker panels?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 April 2016, 03:25 AM
Quote from: polymathman on 05 April 2016, 08:27 PM
What's going on with the rocker panels?

Protective tape, so that they don't mess up the paint going in/out all the time when working on the interior.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 April 2016, 03:32 AM
Quote from: Harv on 05 April 2016, 05:31 PM
Did they not put the rear window trim in before putting it on the car?

Yeah, that's it. As far as I recall from dismantling my 350, the trim must go in with the glass, just like in the front.
They say it just slides in and over the new seal, but are double checking anyway. I'm taking no chances here.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: revilla on 06 April 2016, 03:52 AM
Lucas,

Never done the job myself, but that was one of the major points in Ken's famous video that the trim will NEVER go in if glass is already installed.  It's not too late in your case anyway to take the glass back out and install the trim (x 2 for windshield).  :)

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 April 2016, 04:00 AM
Quote from: revilla on 06 April 2016, 03:52 AM
Lucas,

Never done the job myself, but that was one of the major points in Ken's famous video that the trim will NEVER go in if glass is already installed.  It's not too late in your case anyway to take the glass back out and install the trim (x 2 for windshield).  :)

The windshield was done as it should, after I insisted the guys watch polymathman's video several times before going anywhere near the job :)
It went in on first try without drama.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 06 April 2016, 04:50 AM
Front screen :

brightwork installed in rubber prior to installing screen

Rear screen :

fit screen with rubber, THEN install brightwork.  It slides into clips rivetted to the bodywork.

They have done it correctly. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 April 2016, 05:09 AM
Quote from: s class on 06 April 2016, 04:50 AM
fit screen with rubber, THEN install brightwork.  It slides into clips rivetted to the bodywork.
They have done it correctly.

That's re-assuring. Looking at the trim I was pretty certain it needs to "hook-in" inside the seal, and given how easy it is to damage, better to triple check :)
Thanks!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 06 April 2016, 05:31 AM
Did you see what happened there, with your view-count? You just went up 3000 views in 4 hours.
Pretty amazing, condidering there arent' 3000 members here, haha.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 29 April 2016, 08:00 AM
We're going to miss yet another deadline (tomorrow), by at least a week, all thanks to the seat/door upholstery job which is just taking forever for no reason (ok, the guy's a total douche, that's why). That last mile is excruciatingly slow, and my patience is really tested... but I have this to look out for... :)

Anyway, bad karma aside, here a couple pics fresh off the press. Goldie in her nearly-finished glory:

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/y29whbmdswbcq9j/ZV9485_00855.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/mhes9vttm7iqwq5/ZV9485_00857.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 29 April 2016, 12:00 PM
Hi Lukazs

Goldilocks sure is easy on the eye!  Not much further to go.  I see we have the same headlamp deflectors for travel in Europe.  As we usually use Mrs White for trips to the Continent, I haven't bothered removing them.  I hope to spring Mrs W some time in May for a weekend.  I do so miss driving her.  I need to get more organised and see if I can get a UK W116 get-together organised again.  It would be great to see a couple of 116s together.

As Churchill once said, "If you're going through hell, keep on going!"  I'm sure the upholstery and rear tail-lights will materialise...

Gavin
;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Zaxxon on 29 April 2016, 01:27 PM
She is stunning! Love the gold! That home-stretch is always the worst, but hang in there, it will be all worth it! Can't wait until I am that far along with mine!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 29 April 2016, 05:42 PM
Love that car, top job. ;D
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 29 April 2016, 06:27 PM
Looking great!!! When do you expect to have everything finished?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: revilla on 29 April 2016, 09:12 PM
what a sight Lucas.  I can imagine anxiety levels going up to get your hands on the wheel after so long especially now that spring/summer is here...keep us posted pls
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 30 April 2016, 05:08 AM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 29 April 2016, 06:27 PM
Looking great!!! When do you expect to have everything finished?

Well, let's see: end-of 11/2015, 02/2016, 03/2016, 04/2016 and as of now 05/2016... You get the picture.

There's some contracted hard-set dates after which stiff penalties will apply, but we haven't got there yet. And I hope we won't.

Hopefully, my first post in June will be made from somewhere on the Autobahn ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 30 April 2016, 07:55 AM
Quote from: ptashek on 30 April 2016, 05:08 AM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 29 April 2016, 06:27 PM
Looking great!!! When do you expect to have everything finished?

Well, let's see: end-of 11/2015, 02/2016, 03/2016, 04/2016 and as of now 05/2016... You get the picture.

There's some contracted hard-set dates after which stiff penalties will apply, but we haven't got there yet. And I hope we won't.

Hopefully, my first post in June will be made from somewhere on the Autobahn ;)

I get it. Good luck is all I can wish you  ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 13 May 2016, 07:13 PM
Another small update:
- door panels and rear bench are back in
- new carpets and headliner are in
- front seats are done and will go in shortly

The main heating valve decided to start leaking, and the part is NLA from MB. But I think one from a W201 will be a good replacement. At 15EUR, at MB, it's worth a try.

Some pics...
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/8jfn4tbcex27tkm/ZV9485_00863.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/blx30m9xgi85wny/ZV9485_00865.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/1zhf5fvi14vg1rh/ZV9485_00867.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 13 May 2016, 07:38 PM
Looking good there! One question: what headliner material have you used? OEM or repro?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 13 May 2016, 08:05 PM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 13 May 2016, 07:38 PM
Looking good there! One question: what headliner material have you used? OEM or repro?

Repro from World Upholstery. It needed some small mods to stitching to fit well.
I've opted for a grey one, instead of a cream one as well. The cream one made the car look as if it was smoked in all its life.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 13 May 2016, 08:30 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 13 May 2016, 08:05 PM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 13 May 2016, 07:38 PM
Looking good there! One question: what headliner material have you used? OEM or repro?

Repro from World Upholstery. It needed some small mods to stitching to fit well.
I've opted for a grey one, instead of a cream one as well. The cream one made the car look as if it was smoked in all its life.
Thanks, I've heard that before. Knowing what you know now, would you attempt those mods yourself or leave them for a professional?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 May 2016, 05:49 AM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 13 May 2016, 08:30 PM
Thanks, I've heard that before. Knowing what you know now, would you attempt those mods yourself or leave them for a professional?

I'd leave it to a professional, unless you have some experience with such work. In my case it was maybe 10cm of stitching that needed to be made at an angle, rather than straight, around the sunroof opening.

In general almost all the pieces I got from World Upholstery needed small fixes, with the armrest having the worst fit as supplied. I certainly wouldn't buy from them again.

I had hoped for a good fit and reasonable  price, stemming from their production volume and experience, bit in the end, with fixes accounted for, it ended up costing more than if I had the pieces custom made locally.

It's just one of the lesson's learned in the last two years of this project  :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 14 May 2016, 08:47 AM
Quote from: ptashek on 14 May 2016, 05:49 AM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 13 May 2016, 08:30 PM
Thanks, I've heard that before. Knowing what you know now, would you attempt those mods yourself or leave them for a professional?

I'd leave it to a professional, unless you have some experience with such work. In my case it was maybe 10cm of stitching that needed to be made at an angle, rather than straight, around the sunroof opening.

In general almost all the pieces I got from World Upholstery needed small fixes, with the armrest having the worst fit as supplied. I certainly wouldn't buy from them again.

I had hoped for a good fit and reasonable  price, stemming from their production volume and experience, bit in the end, with fixes accounted for, it ended up costing more than if I had the pieces custom made locally.

It's just one of the lesson's learned in the last two years of this project  :)

Exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks again!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 16 May 2016, 08:38 PM
Good to know, but now what? UPH sells parts that are a poor fit, and GAHH sold light-green carpet offered as parchment carpet. Guess that asking for samples-first can solve the latter issue..
Still need to find out how well the GAHH fits, though.

BTW, what did you use in those door cards? Looks like velours.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 May 2016, 02:56 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 16 May 2016, 08:38 PM
what did you use in those door cards?

Same material as for the floor carpets - fine velours in moss green (albeit, as mentioned before it's more olive than moss).

It was used for door cards and parcel shelf to keep the setup consistent, once originality  was no longer an option. It looks quite good.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 17 May 2016, 10:04 AM
But, I understand that UPH has a score of door card materials for W116, resembling the striped type from yesteryear.. Why not go there?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 May 2016, 11:17 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 17 May 2016, 10:04 AM
But, I understand that UPH has a score of door card materials for W116, resembling the striped type from yesteryear.. Why not go there?

Lack of visual consistency. I'd rather have a visually coherent interior, than something that strives to look original but isn't.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 May 2016, 04:32 PM
Haven't got much in terms of a progress update, it's just slow and tedious.
But here's a few more fresh pics. Excuse the dust, she hasn't been pampered yet ;)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/4n98gg8oj96tzvq/ZV9485_00880.jpg?dl=1)

If you zoom-in on this one, you can clearly see how poorly the "new design" OEM windshield seal fits in the corners. It's mind-boggling.
Also, that rust-like stuff on the bottom edges of the bumpers is just run-off from when the inside was sprayed with rust-proofing. There's a lot of its traces on the body still.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/70qh713n21eclun/ZV9485_00877.jpg?dl=1)

"Trust, but verify" - options and VIN plate got swapped, options plate was mounted upside-down, and both were mounted with rivets not screws! Sigh... (already fixed)
You can also see the re-cored radiator, and restored headlight frames. These got glass-bead blasted, painted with special aluminium paint, and all clips were replaced. They look brand new, yet aren't.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/gxjdj5joxtoolwf/ZV9485_00886.jpg?dl=1)

Cabrio.de carpet set fit example
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/2dmojtc5jqt2zgm/ZV9485_00872.jpg?dl=1)

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: revilla on 17 May 2016, 05:10 PM
Superb Lukas!!!  One day closer to come back to you...

What are those stickers on the headlights?

Robert

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 May 2016, 05:24 PM
Quote from: revilla on 17 May 2016, 05:10 PM
What are those stickers on the headlights?

All RHD and US/Japanese cars are legally required to have these on most mainland European roads - they change the symmetry of the headlight beams, so as to not blind oncoming traffic.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: revilla on 17 May 2016, 05:32 PM
I had no idea the lenses/reflectors configuration was different between European version and RHD/US/Japan.  So the stickers are designed to compensate/attenuate those differences.  Thanks.

Curious.  You know the specifics differences?  In case we source for headlights in the future to buy the right thing for the right version/market.

Cheers.


Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 May 2016, 06:25 PM
Within Europe the  near-side beam is longer, than off-side, to illuminate the kerb area better. The symmetry is reversed between LHD and RHD cars.

Japan and USA, maybe other countries too, use symmetrical, long-range beams, which are frowned upon, if not outright illegal, in most EU countries.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: daantjie on 17 May 2016, 10:30 PM
What a great colour it pops so nicely in the sun. Great job!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 22 May 2016, 05:28 PM
I've made a few before/after collages of the still unfinished product. I think these convey the sheer scope of the job best than any words ever will.

This one's my favourite... "where all the demons lurk" ;)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/eyh50rl7f646xs6/underside.jpg?dl=1)

Missing subframe mount bolt (Shock! Horror!) and an inviting hole straight through the inner sill...
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/wif5hd85srl4gmf/rear_subframe_mount.jpg?dl=1)

The rear axle, in comparison, looked very decent indeed.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/by9wrlqrk7035d8/rear_axle.jpg?dl=1)

Two years, two sides, one car...
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/mgenfa9xw9bi7h4/frontend_1.jpg?dl=1)

Well, this cleaned up nicely....
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/qu7y1ovyl7id12t/front_suspension_and_steering.jpg?dl=1)

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/f4jfgovbbuaexq3/engine_bay_1.jpg?dl=1)

This one highlights the colour difference perfectly. For some reason, the amount of dust under the hood remained constant ;)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/wgb9eyz4y6e64kq/engine_bay_2.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: daantjie on 22 May 2016, 05:38 PM
Wow that rust at the rocker panel is brutal. I'm sure mine is even worse...
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 07 June 2016, 06:37 AM
Except for a new exhaust, the car is pretty much finished as of yesterday - pending test drives to make sure everything is in order, and my nitpicking when I go to pick her up.
Timing has slipped on the stainless steel exhaust, so I'm getting an OEM one instead.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/i3xxq8ogpf0on1j/ZV9485_00900.jpg?dl=1)

Someone here was asking before, how the underside and other elements will get sealed/preserved.
These were sprayed with a "transparent undershield", which looks like below when finished. It's semi-transparent, but actually goes really well with icon gold.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/l6u5yfb1qbqlcx0/ZV9485_00898.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 07 June 2016, 05:04 PM
Very impressive and I cant wait for the final photos, well done fella  ;D
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 08 June 2016, 02:08 AM
Not to be difficult, but your brake fluid reservoir is mounted the wrong way around.  THis means that the small chamber feeds the front brake circuit, instead of the large chamber as it should be. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Malaysian on 08 June 2016, 02:39 AM
Oh man..
Goldilocks is sweet.

not too big and not too small, not too hot and not too cold.

She's just nice.

Well done sir!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 June 2016, 03:27 AM
Quote from: s class on 08 June 2016, 02:08 AM
Not to be difficult, but your brake fluid reservoir is mounted the wrong way around.  THis means that the small chamber feeds the front brake circuit, instead of the large chamber as it should be.

Yeah, already being looked into.
Thanks, and please do call out anything else you spot not being right :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 08 June 2016, 05:21 PM
Quote from: Malaysian on 08 June 2016, 02:39 AM
Oh man..
Goldilocks is sweet.

Thanks! She sure is.
I can't wait to be back behind the wheel - I'm picking her up next week, doing last tests and fixes, and then it's off on a road trip 2000km across Europe to catch a ferry in France on the 26th.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: w116john on 08 June 2016, 08:06 PM

wow exiting times, we will have to have a meet up in ireland to celebrate. before the summer ends

all the best
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 June 2016, 04:04 AM
Quote from: w116john on 08 June 2016, 08:06 PM

wow exiting times, we will have to have a meet up in ireland to celebrate. before the summer ends

all the best

I'm game :)
I've also promised the last UK owner, Tom, that I'll drive her up North.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 17 June 2016, 06:21 PM
She's back on the road, with final testing over then next few days. There's a few smaller kinks, and a fuel system issue to sort out, but other than that she's a rocket ship :)
The underside is a work of art. There's no picture that can convey how damn gorgeous it looks. I may have teared up a little a few times today :D

We've had her on the motorway as well, getting her warmed up, and run in again, gradually going faster. About 120km in, and I know that this whole thing may have been borderline madness, but it was worth every cent of it. The only sore point are the door panel frames and the dash - the only interior pieces that would benefit from, but have not been re-trimmed or replaced. Even madness has its limits. But I'll hopefully get these done over the next couple years.

Meanwhile a local MB dealer has asked if they could do a small photo session with the car for their marketing dept.
I guess I shall negotiate a decent discount in exchange ;)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 17 June 2016, 11:02 PM
What a feeling that must be! Congrats and post a photoshoot/video of her!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: w116john on 18 June 2016, 09:12 AM

thants amazing, to be at the end of the process and see it through. great feeling to be driving and knowing that, what went into the car was all quality parts and workmanship

well done
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 18 June 2016, 02:11 PM
A short video I've made today :)
https://youtu.be/voSgTwfES_A
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: daantjie on 18 June 2016, 02:15 PM
Very nice engine note congratulations!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Zaxxon on 18 June 2016, 04:26 PM
Congratulations! That's always an incredible feeling when you're finally going down the road in something you put so much effort and time and certainly money too into!!! Enjoy the ride and here's to always clear roads ahead of you!!!

--Zax
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 18 June 2016, 04:45 PM
 :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D   
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 18 June 2016, 07:31 PM
Yeah, it's quite something! Happy to see you are that close to the finish. Gives me  some more energy to push forward and get there myself one day but damn, it's a long road!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: beagle2022 on 19 June 2016, 12:35 AM
Hearty congratulations and thanks again for your generosity in sharing the journey.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 19 June 2016, 02:59 AM
Thanks everyone :)
It's quite unbelievable how a hunk of metal can restore that boyish grin to ones face. It's almost like a first date all over again, LOL :D
She's passed 70k miles yesterday, making it the first 10k miles under my ownership.

We're still fighting that one fuel system gremlin - the car refuses to start on the button when left to stand warm for 10-15 minutes. System pressure should keep within 2.8 - 3.2 bar with ignition off, just under the 3.3 bar injector opening pressure. But here it drops to 1 bar and lower. After much testing we think we've narrowed it down to the fuel pump and it's return valve. Both are getting replaced.

New MB exhaust is coming in tomorrow, and a CO check and adjustment to spec if needed.
Then a final wheel balance with tracking, after everything has worked and settled on the road. Oh, we need to wash and valet her too ;)

And a side note on fuel injectors and how changing these makes a difference - out of the 8 in my car only two were sweating slightly, six were perfect. These were still the original, factory parts.
Swapping all 8, including all the rubber seals (sockets were swapped earlier in the project) transformed the engine entirely. Idle is as smooth as butter now. I'll post a before/after video at some point.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 19 June 2016, 03:03 AM
Hi Lukazs

What a great feeling it must be to drive off into the sunset in what is essentially a new W116.  None of us need to tell you it just gets better with each mile travelled, you know that already.  Good luck to you and Goldilocks, you're sure to be a sensation wherever you go.  Congratulations on your stunning achievement, a real testament to the preservation of the W116.

Enjoy the road ahead!

Gavin
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Zaxxon on 19 June 2016, 06:12 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 19 June 2016, 02:59 AM
After much testing we think we've narrowed it down to the fuel pump and it's return valve. Both are getting replaced.

That would have been my guess and first shot to do as well - those check valves do give out eventually. Had to replace them on a few cars over the years.

--Zax
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Beastie on 20 June 2016, 06:39 PM
Congratulations! It's a wee smasher!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 22 June 2016, 05:21 PM
All critical parts of the fuel system have been replaced or checked out, and the exhaust has been fitted. Old downpipes were refurbished, painted with high-temp black matte paint (rated safe to 680*C) and assembled with new hangers and silencers. She's purring like a kitten now.

All wheels have been re-balanced, and final alignment will be done tomorrow.

The warm start gremlin remains to a small extent, but the system is now in perfect shape, including new Bosch fuel pump. Nothing leaks, and all pressures are within spec. I don't think there's anymore that can be done here.

First tank on new injectors - 12.6l/100km on 98RON fuel, mixed cycle. I like that!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: w116john on 22 June 2016, 06:07 PM

I'll assume that 98 RON fuel was on the continent? or can you get it here

john
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 22 June 2016, 09:11 PM
Djeez, that's 1 in 7! :o
That's good? Guess I never drove a 4.5 liter V8, haha!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 June 2016, 03:17 AM
Quote from: w116john on 22 June 2016, 06:07 PM
I'll assume that 98 RON fuel was on the continent? or can you get it here

Yes, that's on the continent. We get all sorts of weird stuff here from E10 with 10% ethanol to 100RON "racing" fuel.
I have Goldie setup to run on 95, but 98 is not much more expensive and has better cleaning additives which makes it great on long trips, and especially now after 2 years of no action.
Technically our V8s were designed to run on 98 unleaded, but can go down as low as 90 if memory serves (translating to 8 deg. BTDC timing advance).
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 23 June 2016, 03:22 AM
12.6l/100km is exceptionally good.  I presume you weren't pushing it too fast then?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 June 2016, 03:26 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 22 June 2016, 09:11 PM
Djeez, that's 1 in 7! :o
That's good? Guess I never drove a 4.5 liter V8, haha!

That's a great result for our V8s, considering the manual has the 450 at 14.5l/100km at 120km/h sustained, going up to 30l/100km at top-speed.
The 280 isn't much better than that - 12.5l/100km. It's a big hunk of metal to haul.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 June 2016, 03:31 AM
Quote from: s class on 23 June 2016, 03:22 AM
12.6l/100km is exceptionally good.  I presume you weren't pushing it too fast then?

I've had her at top speed a couple times, but that tank was mostly spent on the motorway just below the local limit of 140km/h, and maybe 1/3 of it was on minor roads in start-stop traffic within the 50km/h range.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 June 2016, 05:40 PM
OK folks, the project has concluded as of this evening, and I'm picking the car up tomorrow morning.
I will be driving it under its own power, how else, 2000km to France, then it's 18h on a ferry to Ireland.

The entire project took 2 years and 13 days from start to finish (13 days longer than contracted), with 2055 man-hours of labour, and over 200 individual OEM part numbers replaced.
In terms of cost... it's hardly a secret this wasn't cheap - and that's all I'm going to say. Percentage wise, it came out as on the chart below. The number may change very slightly as I file the last invoices, but that's the gist of it.

The cherry on top is a 3 year + unlimited mileage warranty, which I hope to never need.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/cyjtvw1lvpqcr06/cost_split.png?dl=1)

Major thanks to everyone who lent their support, advice, critique and kind words over the last two years.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: rumb on 24 June 2016, 08:15 AM
A hearty congratulations on the completion of your car!  It must be glorious to cruise across europe in your "new" car. Happy motoring!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: s class on 24 June 2016, 09:18 AM
Awesome stuff, and thanks for keeping us updated.  There are so many projects out there, its really nice to see one completed. 

And the 13 days overshoot on a two year contract is really not bad at all. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 24 June 2016, 04:47 PM
Thanks for the pie chart its excellent
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 25 June 2016, 04:43 AM
So here I am, at the Dutch border in Aachen, averaging 14.4l/100km with a decent average of 105km/h. And if anyone ever wondered if our cars are autobahn worthy, yes they are - the old girl can comfortably keep top-speed (GPS confirmed!).

Everything's still attached and running fine :)
Upwards and onwards!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 25 June 2016, 01:30 PM
You got very lucky that the drivetrain didn't eat up more than it did in the pie chart.  Nonetheless, thank you for posting this.  Maybe now the non-believers will believe me when I tell them why it's so expensive.  :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Zaxxon on 25 June 2016, 06:16 PM
Glad to hear it! These cards were made for Autobahn speeds at extended periods of time. They love it. Living over here now, I really miss being able to go faster than 65mph the most.

When I had my first Mercedes, a 1981 C123 230E, I would sometimes get chased by a Golf GTI or a Escort XR3...the funny thing would always be that they'd be ahead in short time, but once the "old lady" accelerated all her mass to top speed, she'd stay there no matter how long, passing the GTI or whatever eventually, and doing so for hours with the temperature needle not even moving a tad. And all that sitting very relaxed in the car and not with white knuckles like the guy in the XR3 at 210 or so kmh :P
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 June 2016, 02:12 PM
Well, man and machine made it home safe and sound, with a total of 2085km, averaging 14.5 l/100km.
Only two incidents to report:

- Trunk side floors got flooded quite a bit after driving 200km in constant, monsoon-like rain; I'll need to double check and re-sit the trunk seal if needed. It didn't leak when hosed down.
- Got into serious trouble starting the car at the ferry port in France. The engine wouldn't hold revs, refused to start and wasn't firing on all cylinders. The fuel I got a few dozen miles earlier must have been super dodgy! Once whatever it may have been cleared the system, with much trouble, life was good again and I rolled on and off the ferry without issues.

All that's left is a good wash to get all the insects off, and a fresh layer of wax.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: midnitesunmerc on 27 June 2016, 02:29 PM
Quote from: ptashek on 27 June 2016, 02:12 PM
Well, man and machine made it home safe and sound, with a total of 2085km, averaging 14.5 l/100km.
Only two incidents to report:

- Trunk side floors got flooded quite a bit after driving 200km in constant, monsoon-like rain; I'll need to double check and re-sit the trunk seal if needed. It didn't leak when hosed down.
- Got into serious trouble starting the car at the ferry port in France. The engine wouldn't hold revs, refused to start and wasn't firing on all cylinders. The fuel I got a few dozen miles earlier must have been super dodgy! Once whatever it may have been cleared the system, with much trouble, life was good again and I rolled on and off the ferry without issues.

All that's left is a good wash to get all the insects off, and a fresh layer of wax.

Nice to hear you made it okay - I know how nerve-wracking it can be going for long drives in old and generally unfamiliar vehicles, I drove my 280SE 5000km home from California when I bought it and the towns are few and far between the further north you go in Canada!!

I also have a leak into my passenger side trunk floor when it rains and it drives me nuts as I can't figure out where it is getting in - the seal looks like it's in fine shape so it's nothing obvious - been thinking of shutting myself in the trunk with a trouble light and having a friend hose it down from the outside!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 June 2016, 03:35 PM
Quote from: midnitesunmerc on 27 June 2016, 02:29 PM
Nice to hear you made it okay - I know how nerve-wracking it can be going for long drives in old and generally unfamiliar vehicles, I drove my 280SE 5000km home from California when I bought it and the towns are few and far between the further north you go in Canada!!

Wow, 5000km and through that region! I'm all envious. My favourite route in California is along the coast down the Pacifica towards LA.
But I've never been further North than Muir Woods near Mt Tamailpas.

QuoteI also have a leak into my passenger side trunk floor when it rains and it drives me nuts as I can't figure out where it is getting in - the seal looks like it's in fine shape so it's nothing obvious - been thinking of shutting myself in the trunk with a trouble light and having a friend hose it down from the outside!

I think it's another design issue, just like the infamous never-draining corners under the bonnet.
Given enough water, the seal gets overwhelmed and leaks around the edges. Sometimes there's rust holes around the top corners - that was the case on my car before.
The new seal is sitting good and was glued in with the recommended MB glue, yet, it still leaked in a few spots in that heavy downpour (the glue doesn't provide much barrier itself).
If you just hose it down, nothing gets past.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: daantjie on 27 June 2016, 03:40 PM
Tail light seal is a common culprit for water ingress. Not easy job be warned  ;D
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 29 June 2016, 08:06 PM
Just wanted to add two more images which nicely show off the finished underside. These were taken on the day I was picking the car up, after already ~700km on the road during testing.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 29 June 2016, 08:11 PM
Quote from: daantjie on 27 June 2016, 03:40 PM
Tail light seal is a common culprit for water ingress. Not easy job be warned  ;D

Not an easy job indeed, but doable with patience. I've hosed mine down heavily, and spotted a few drops around the bottom edge.
They just needed to be tightened a little more than the workshop did, and should be good now.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 29 June 2016, 09:38 PM
If my car looked that immaculate underneath, I'd never drive it  :o
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 30 June 2016, 02:14 AM
I think you may be missing the point here Karmann.  Part of the fun is pretending like you just bought a new W116.  You actually get to be the new owner and put the first miles on it. You have to remember that wheel wells and wheels can be cleaned, and the whole underside can also be cleaned if it gets dusty or dirty. I, personally, rather enjoy cleaning the undersides of my cars after I've enjoyed them for a bit. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 30 June 2016, 08:03 PM
Quote from: UTn_boy on 30 June 2016, 02:14 AM
I think you may be missing the point here Karmann.  Part of the fun is pretending like you just bought a new W116.  You actually get to be the new owner and put the first miles on it. You have to remember that wheel wells and wheels can be cleaned, and the whole underside can also be cleaned if it gets dusty or dirty. I, personally, rather enjoy cleaning the undersides of my cars after I've enjoyed them for a bit.

I don't think I missed the point and i know that everything can be cleaned and that everybody builds and uses their cars the way it makes them happy.

I'd just want to preserve that in a museum, it's so clean those pictures belong in a brochure ;D
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 30 June 2016, 08:57 PM
I mentioned the same thing before.. It's too immaculate to drive.
But.  Imagine living the tale of the guy that got to drive a brand new "still-in-the-box W116 in 2016, with the balls to open up the wrapper and put on the first miles? ;D

I am trying to have my cake and eat it by having one "in the museum" and another to unwrap and drive. I still need to prove I can get there at all, but even if I succeed, I am not sure anyone else should attempt the same. I do OK here, but for me, this is about as costly as I can get away with, let alone the difficulty of doing a job like this twice!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 01 July 2016, 04:28 AM
Quote from: floyd111 on 30 June 2016, 08:57 PM
I mentioned the same thing before.. It's too immaculate to drive.
But.  Imagine living the tale of the guy that got to drive a brand new "still-in-the-box W116 in 2016, with the balls to open up the wrapper and put on the first miles? ;D

I've put on 3000km in total already. Managed to close the seatbelt buckle in the drivers door. Managed to open the rear passenger door into a wall, resulting in a small ding at the very inside edge. I'm just lucky like that when I care to much. Shock! Horror! Or more like "life". No mater what you do, how much you care and pay attention - if you use something, it'll get dirty, it'll get battle scars and it'll need maintenance as years pass.

So, I've relaxed and am just focused on enjoying the car as much as I can, and caring for it as best I can in that context. Now, if anyone else did that to my car, there'd be violence :D Not four days yet, as I've yelled like a maniac at the French border control guard who thought it OK to have a drug squad dog jump on my freshly restored chrome.

Meanwhile, I'm awaiting a replacement armrest cover from World Upholstery, as the one they made me close to a year ago has come apart on stitching in one place. They didn't dispute any of the evidence sent to them, and are replacing it at no cost, as one would expect.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Malaysian on 07 July 2016, 01:43 PM
A funny story. Sorry to hear about the "murphy mishaps". Best of luck keeping the scar count low.

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 15 August 2016, 03:30 AM
The very last piece of the puzzle has just clicked into place this morning - agreed value insurance. Presented with the evidence (several dozen detailed pictures from the resto, all invoices, warranty etc.), the valuers made not a single follow-up query, and approved the policy. Far below the restoration cost, a the cost of labour is not taken into account, yet considerably higher than the going European market rate for a "Note 1" (i.e. concourse) 450SE in unrestored condition at comparable mileage. Works for me, but I hope I'll never need it :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 22 April 2017, 06:32 PM
Well, almost a year has passed.. What is it like, was it like, driving this car regularly? What has changed, stayed the same?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 23 April 2017, 05:08 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 22 April 2017, 06:32 PM
Well, almost a year has passed.. What is it like, was it like, driving this car regularly? What has changed, stayed the same?

I get in, close the door, turn the key and have an automatic stupid grin on my face. That's how it feels from day one I had the car. Nothing has changed :)
She's still driving like a new car, and drives as often as I find the time and the insurance policy lets me. I'm staying true to my word -  she ain't a garage princess, or a so-called investment.

Issues so far:

- Coolant leak at that über-expensive short rubber hose - fixed with clamp adjustment

- Warm start issues down to ethanol content in our fuel. It causes vapour lock on a hot engine a few minutes after stopping. There's nothing that can be done about it.

- Both anti-squat links had to be replaced, as the rubber bushing came loose in the encasing metal bracket. No issues since.

- One of the dash mounting bolts loosened and jingles, annoying me to bits. It'll need taking care of soon.

A few things done as regular servicing:

- new oil and filter - I've gone back to Castrol Magnatec 15w40, after testing Liqui-Moly MoS2 10w40. I somehow didn't like the sound of the engine on the lighter grade.

- lubricated sun roof rails, and made sure drains are clear

- re-glued the trunk seal in a couple spots at the bottom edge

- installed new trunk edge plastic garnish, which I forgot to ship to my restorer

- lubricated throttle linkage

- adjusted idle speed a bit

- checked all wheel bolts with a torque wrench

- checked fluid levels / state in transmission and power steering

- waxed the paintwork a few times

- kept the tank full :D

A few observations:

- Keeping the engine bay clean is a major pain, and I may need to spend some serious time on it soon.

- Alloys are only nice for a short time. They're an absolute "ding and chip" magnet, regardless of how much care you take. Expect to re-coat them on a semi-regular basis in normal use.

- The new, environment and eco-terrorist friendly, yellow passivated zinc plating process is utter shit. I have no expectations for it to last more than 2-3 years. Go the old cadmium way if you can. Export your stuff for plating if you need to. With hindsight, this is one thing I really regret not doing.

- I should have gone for a custom stainless steel exhaust, or at least the downpipes. The OEM ones are already rusting! I'll be getting rid of these by the end of this year.

- The fancy ceramic coating on my exhaust manifolds is holding up nice, except in the hot-spots (bends), where it's starting to "crust". The guys said it may not last long on a hot running engine. I'm OK with that.

Here's a pic of her from about two weeks ago.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: daantjie on 23 April 2017, 07:16 PM
That gold pops nicely...fantastic stuff well done!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Peter on 23 April 2017, 08:49 PM
My new favorite color for a W116.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 23 April 2017, 10:15 PM
Dang!  8)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Will on 24 April 2017, 07:16 AM
Outstanding!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gavin116 on 25 April 2017, 01:30 AM
Hi Lucas


Must say, your car looks stunning. It really does look like a new car, and wow, does that colour pop! Wish my car lived closer to home, but it's 50 miles away in the storage facility (no garage here in London).


Makes me think I must try organise a W116.org get together. I see there are quite a number of new UK members too, and it would be great to all meet up.


Keep on enjoying ;D !

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: Will on 25 April 2017, 07:45 AM
I'd be up for the meetup - all being well I'll have mine back on Friday.  My silver will never have as a good a pop as gold though!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: johnnyw116 on 25 April 2017, 01:59 PM
Looks Really über cool ! 

greetings : john           
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 25 April 2017, 02:03 PM
The car is a real achievement I can only wish that my 450 will ever reach such a standard. A truly great piece of work I don't think jealous or envious even begin to describe it.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 25 April 2017, 06:17 PM
Looking great there, Lucas. Happy that you are enjoying the car (as you should!).

A couple comments to your observations:

Alloys - I have read nothing but good things on a few different forums about the Wurth rim paint, if you ever refinish the Bundts consider going this route. Also prepping is very important but I'm sure you already know that. Here is a link to the paint (shouldn't be too hard to find in your neck of the woods):
http://www.autogeek.net/wurth-silver-paint.html

Exhaust - are you considering a SS complete exhaust, or just the down pipes? I will most likely need a full 450SEL exhaust as well and was considering a couple different options, but would like to hear what direction will you take.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: robertd on 25 April 2017, 09:18 PM

Excellent !

Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 25 April 2017, 09:53 PM
Lucas, shouldn't you be using a 20W/50 oil with zinc in it?   These V-8 engines hate 10W-30 and 10/15W-40 oils.  They're extremely noisy with thin oils.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 26 April 2017, 06:52 AM
Thanks everyone for the kind words.
As promised earlier, I've picked a few restoration pics from my archive and made them available in a simple gallery (https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/zv9485.szmit.eu/resto/pics/index.html).

@UTn_boy
I'm using what the owners manual suggests for our climate, which has an annual average of just 16*C - 20W/50 is just to thick. I don't think the engine runs any noisier than other W116s I've heard. Modern oils are fine in our V8s, including gaskets and other non-metallic elements. The old-age ZDDP has been replaced with other additives, and we have hardened valve seats as well. Of the 15k miles under my ownership I've used 15W/40 from Castrol for 13k. I had the cams checked, and there's no excessive wear or anything else wrong with them. The engine runs well, there's zero leaks as well. I guess only time will show.

@karmann_20v
The 15s I have on now were bought already restored, so it's hard to tell how it was done exactly. They do look well prepped, and powder coated.
Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look next time I'll get them re-done.

As for the exhaust, except for the downpipes every element is new. I've bought new downpipes from MB, but they didn't fit (to short!). The old downpipes were sand blasted clean (oh, how nice they looked!) and then painted with a specialised high-temperature ceramic paint (~800*C range). But our V8s run so hot, the paint started to micro-crack and there's surface rust creeping all over the pipes already. So first, I'll get these replaced with stainless, and then the rest a few years down the line depending on how it ages. Stephen (Type17 on the forum) has a full SS exhaust on his car, and while it sounds nice, it no longer sounds like the OEM setup. Much deeper, a bit louder and throatier rumble.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 27 April 2017, 11:47 AM
20W-50 is ok to use down to about 5 degrees C, and is used year round in my area, which sees temps at and below 0 C often during the winter.  Modern oils do have different additives in them, but lack the proper amount of Zinc that the older V-8 engines need.  At least buy some zinc additive.  What weight oil you use is less important than making sure that it has the proper amount of zinc in it.  The valve seats have nothing to do with zinc in the oil.  It's the guides that get eaten up quicker without the zinc. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: marku on 27 April 2017, 01:24 PM
Zinc? Very interesting I didn't know will certainly consider it.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 April 2017, 05:01 PM
Taken from my 1979 manual.
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/dh09ajakcukvmth/IMG_20170427_205456.jpg?dl=1)

Both 20W and 15W are considered optimal. I'll try a 20W-50 in the next service, maybe it'll prove a better choice indeed. I think Castrol have a 20W-50 in their "classic" range, which is formulated to API SF spec.

I'm assuming that by "zinc" you're referring to ZDDP, which adds both phosphorus and zinc to the formulation.
API SE/SF oils (i.e. 1972 to 1988 range) have a ~1400ppm phosphorus limit, API SL oils (like the one I use) - 1000ppm. Newer specs quote a minimum of 600ppm, and a limit of 800ppm. There are no recommendations for zinc content (http://www.api.org/~/media/files/certification/engine-oil-diesel/publications/150917thaddendum1-032515.pdf?la=en), so its directly related to whatever percentage of ZDDP it constitutes. Phosphorus content limits only apply to 20 and 30 grade oils, not 40 or higher.

There is research (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11249-016-0706-7) showing that even at a concentration of just 800ppm (phosphorus), ZDDP is very effective. Where the effects of ZDDP, or lack thereof, should be most visible is the cam lobes which experience high shear stress, not valve guides.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 28 April 2017, 02:54 PM
Lucas, two things......1) The book isn't always right, and 2) The research done regarding the use of ZDDP wasn't performed on an old V-8 Mercedes engine. 

When you say Phosphorus limits, are you saying lower viscosity oils have limits, and if so, are the maxima or minima? 

While you're correct on the effects of ZDDP, or lack thereof, should be most visible is the cam lobes which experience high shear stress, I'm pretty certain the guides and valve stems are just as prone to wear without ZDDP.  The stems and guides are the second highest items in the top end in which sheer stress is prevalent. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 29 April 2017, 03:03 PM
Quote from: UTn_boy on 28 April 2017, 02:54 PM
1) The book isn't always right

It was written in an era where engineers, not marketers, wrote these. I trust it to be right :)

Quote2) The research done regarding the use of ZDDP wasn't performed on an old V-8 Mercedes engine.

Irrelevant, since such research is mostly done using domain specific testing equipment. Otherwise the results wouldn't be comparable in a consistent way.
There's another interesting paper covering ZDDP and formulations with it, without it, and in combination with other additives: https://goo.gl/ROKHGS

Let's put it this way, I'll trust the engineers behind modern oil formulations, before I'll trust countless forums and people crying "wolf" because their oil is not what they were buying the last 40 years. Even more so, as I haven't yet seen any trustworthy evidence that using modern oils in classic engines causes their untimely demise.

QuoteWhen you say Phosphorus limits, are you saying lower viscosity oils have limits, and if so, are the maxima or minima? 

According to the API spec requirements, only the thinner grades do have limits, and it's always the upper bound.
Except for API SM and newer, which set both the upper (800ppm) and lower bounds (600ppm).
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: UTn_boy on 29 April 2017, 04:02 PM
You shouldn't put that must trust in what you trust.  I've seen far too many camshafts and heads ruined to believe otherwise.  However, have it your way.  I won't comment about it ever again.  I was only trying to help. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 30 April 2017, 10:02 AM
Current API spec tests, for anti-wear properties of an oil, target 350lb of force at the tappet. There is one research paper from 1958 which shows, through controlled lab tests, that at a concentration of just 800ppm, ZDDP provides more than adequate protection even at 600lb (which was the limit of the lab equipment at the time). Basically, buy any high quality API SL rated oil, and you're good. There is zero research to support the contrary.

There is also enough research around showing that at concentrations of >= 1400ppm ZDDP is actually causing issues.
Oils formulated in the 1970s were targeting a limit of 1200ppm at most.

Since most of the papers I have read on this subject come up with the same conclusions for 50+ years, I'm filing this one under "myths, and other urban legends".
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 27 June 2017, 05:19 PM
Goldie moved into her new home yesterday, finally having a permanent place 24/7.

I've used the occasion to take a shot of the underside, after a year and covering a good few thousand kilometres since  the restoration finished. She's still looking good, albeit the downpipes are rusted (another argument for stainless, I guess), and the diff housing has acquired a few stone chips and some surface rust.

The rust proofing has flowed nicely into all nooks and crannies, especially within range of the exhaust pipes.

(http://www.dropbox.com/s/rakozuvlbn5kcoo/IMG_20170627_211741~2.jpg?dl=1) (http://www.dropbox.com/s/rakozuvlbn5kcoo/IMG_20170627_211741~2.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 29 June 2017, 07:45 PM
So what's her new home?
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 30 June 2017, 12:33 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 29 June 2017, 07:45 PM
So what's her new home?

A purpose built garage with workshop space and inspection pit, right in my backyard. It was on my to-do list for years.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: nathan on 30 June 2017, 07:30 PM
still looks great PT.
of interest, do you pop those wood blocks above the pit in case the hydro goes out and you get stuck in there?!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 01 July 2017, 05:02 AM
Quote from: nathan on 30 June 2017, 07:30 PM
still looks great PT.
of interest, do you pop those wood blocks above the pit in case the hydro goes out and you get stuck in there?!

Mine's a standard SE, so no fear of hydro going out :) I use the timbers to cover the pit when not in use and just slide them aside when I'm working under the car.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 01 July 2017, 09:15 AM
Quote from: ptashek on 30 June 2017, 12:33 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 29 June 2017, 07:45 PM
So what's her new home?

A purpose built garage with workshop space and inspection pit, right in my backyard. It was on my to-do list for years.

You sir are doing it right!
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 09 October 2017, 08:02 PM
This is a never ending story, so expect random resurrection of this thread :)

Things done recently:

- Installed rear speakers, with custom made adapters, bypassing the horrid fader potentiometer on the dash. Actually, I've removed it, and just plugged the hole with a plastic cap. Details posted at: https://zv9485.wordpress.com/2017/09/09/installing-rear-speakers/

- Replaced the fuel accumulator with a new one today. Turns out the old one was indeed a total dud, freely leaking fuel on the return pipe. So far, looks like her hot start issues are gone! My other spare is of the older type, with two outputs so I'll have no use for it - in case anyone's looking; it worked fine when taken off of the car ~2 years ago, and has been dry stored since.

The new type (A004760421) is made by a company called Woco (http://www.wocogroup.com/?L=1) in Czech Republic, and looks a little different than what went in at the factory:

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fhfux4neuxjnuu/fa_01.jpg?dl=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/yotv1rxx9mg12jv/fa_02.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 October 2017, 01:51 PM
Small part, huge price, massive difference!

Finally, no hot start issues. What's also gone is the slightly rough idle for a few seconds after a hot start, which I guess was because of the fuel pump re-pressurising the system.
The moral of the story is that no matter how good the rest of the fuel supply system is, a shot fuel accumulator will cause trouble - so always start any fixes here. Thanks to everyone who said so - I should've listened to you guys earlier :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: karmann_20v on 14 October 2017, 02:49 PM
Good to hear the hot starting issue is gone. Had the same issue on the red 450 that I sold this summer.

I wonder if Bosch discontinued this part, I remember most of the online part sources that I check frequently had many of them in stock. They are still available, but not all suppliers have leftover stock. Is it time to jump in and buy one just in case?

Also did you get the Czech made one from the MB dealer? (For the record, I consider the quality of anything Made in CZ on par w/German made).
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 14 October 2017, 04:17 PM
Quote from: karmann_20v on 14 October 2017, 02:49 PM
I wonder if Bosch discontinued this part, I remember most of the online part sources that I check frequently had many of them in stock. They are still available, but not all suppliers have leftover stock. Is it time to jump in and buy one just in case?

I can't vouch for availability, but the part certainly looks like a recent batch. I'd say, they're not an "endangered species" in the catalogue.

QuoteAlso did you get the Czech made one from the MB dealer?

Yes, I bought it from a reputable main dealer in Germany, one I have used extensively during the restoration.
The part was delivered in a "Mercedes-Benz Original Teile" cardboard box, with all the expected, branded part number stickers etc.

I too was surprised it's not a Bosch part, but there was nothing about it externally that would suggest low quality. It fits perfect, works well too.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 03 November 2017, 09:04 PM
Winter is coming. Well, Irish winter, i.e. even less sun and more rain than usual. That doesn't make for great driving weather, so it's off-season maintenance time.

I've flushed the cooling system, and filled it with pre-mixed Comma Xstream G48 coolant (MB 325.0 approved (https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/325.0_en.html)), then decided to see what all the fuss of using 20W-50 oil is about, and filled the engine with Liqui Moly Touring High Tech (https://products.liqui-moly.com/touring-high-tech-20w-50-2.html), replacing the oil filter along the way too. I've been very satisfied with oil consumption in the V8 so far (i.e. not a drop over ~7000km!), and the stuff that comes out the engine at each interval is rather clean, like this:

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/22829471_2075640339116540_3470361458392882728_o.jpg?oh=97f56bbaef148dcda80fb421f8595994&oe=5AA3B5BB)

Next item on my to-do list: full rebuild of the spare heat exchanger and blower box from the parts stash. I've taken it all apart for now, and will need to give all the pieces a good clean - the PO of my 350 was a chain smoker, and there's literally half a millimetre layer of thick, oily, cigarette smelling crap on every inside surface of the blower box. Never mind the entirely disintegrate foam flap seals.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 April 2018, 01:20 AM
Goldie has had her 2-year warranty checkup and rustproofing top up this week,  which was a condition to get the extended 3-year no mileage limit warranty. The entire underside and all wheel houses where pressure steam cleaned, then "baked" in a paint booth for a couple days and ultimately topped up with an extra 4kg of the same protective stuff that went in post-resto. All nooks and crannies, including hollow sections, doors and door pillars got done.

She got a full bill of health, and nothing less was expected :)

One thing I won't be doing again though is using 20W-50 oil. My M117 never used a drop of oil between change intervals when driven on 10W-40 and 15W-40. This time it burned nearly a litre of the stuff over less than half the interval (2500km). I'm going back to synthetic in lighter grades.

We're driving back home today - another trip of 2000km with nearly a thousand on the Autobahn :)
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: saffronrobes on 06 March 2022, 07:29 AM
I've just read through this entire thread with complete fascination, and all I can say is just WOW! Amazing job and a stunning stunning car at the end. I hope you're enjoying it 4 years later.

I am about to begin a similar restoration of my '84 380SL and I am inspired by your project. Currently checking out restorers here in Poland.

Adrian
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 06 March 2022, 04:28 PM
Thanks! It's hard to believe, bit it's been almost six years now, actually.

I haven't driven the car as much as I'd like to in that time, mostly due to lack of time and then not being able to travel due to the pandemic. And to be honest I enjoy both my S124s much more these days (such fantastic cars!)

Good luck with your project! Poland has a good classic restoration industry going, and the quality of work is usually superb.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: gurrier on 08 March 2022, 03:48 AM
This is where being a member of W116.org pays dividends  A very impressive achievement indeed ptashek- many helpful insights which help bolster someone trying to rescue an early example from the crusher. 
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: floyd111 on 27 September 2023, 09:51 AM
He Lukas,

I just wanted to re-browse your Goldilocks pics, but they seem gone?

Maybe you could re-post some of them, especially the ones taken when you finished the job..
Would love to have another look.
Title: Re: The "Goldilocks" restoration thread
Post by: ptashek on 29 September 2023, 03:13 PM
Quote from: floyd111 on 27 September 2023, 09:51 AMHe Lukas,

I just wanted to re-browse your Goldilocks pics, but they seem gone?

Maybe you could re-post some of them, especially the ones taken when you finished the job..
Would love to have another look.

Hey Stan, if you DM me your email address and I'll reshare the folder. I've removed most of the public shares as a few enterprising workshops stole the photos and presented them as their work.