Rather than talk nonstop, I'll just put pictures and a few words and people can ask me any questions. But basically my race car is 1975 450SE Vin 11603222043094 which has no sunroof, no cruise control, but other than that its a plain white 450SE:
View out my 6.9 windscreen of the new toy:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20572.jpg)
Looking for rust:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20573.jpg)
Found rust:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20574.jpg)
And more:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20575.jpg)
And a little more for good measure:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20576.jpg)
450 M117 D-jet:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20577.jpg)
More rust under and around the battery (but thats a couple hundred bucks worth of new battery):
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20578.jpg)
Still has SLS which will be going:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20579.jpg)
Same with air conditioning, thats just useless weight:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20580.jpg)
Radiator overflow is rusty...
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20581.jpg)
Rear door rust...
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20582.jpg)
No significan't rust in the petrol filling flap:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20583.jpg)
Nice interior but its all being removed - its the same colour as my 6.9 interior :-)
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20584.jpg)
Nice steering wheel but its far too small... need a leather bound 38.5cm one...
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20585.jpg)
Becker looks like its from a W126 but its going as well..
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20586.jpg)
Unused rear seat... it will go
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20587.jpg)
Must've had a front-ender at some stage as the radiator, fan cowling and aux fan are from a wrecking yard:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20588.jpg)
Australian Delivery vehicle in Oct 1975 to Yorkstar motors:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20589.jpg)
More rust.. this time in the lower LH side A-pillar:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20590.jpg)
The wheels are Rial 15x7 which are hub-centric (luckily):
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20591.jpg)
Front discs are in good condition and measure 23mm thick - no need to replace them:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20592.jpg)
More rust... this time in the firewall but its small by the looks of it:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20593.jpg)
Air cleaner removed... there is a fuel leak down the back - perished rubber hoses is the cause:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20594.jpg)
This regulator looks and smells fuel-soaked:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20595.jpg)
Rear discs are in good condition and measure 10mm thick - again no need to replace them:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20596.jpg)
SLS valve which I hope to get rid of:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20597.jpg)
Accumulator, almost new exhaust, look under the car:
(http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/mercedes_b/Picture%20or%20Video%20598.jpg)
Any thoughts or comments?
Ian.
At this stage I want the get the basics out of the way so firstly I need to roadworthy the thing and put it on club plates (will be interesting with all the rust...)
The interior will be stripped out, 2 fixed back race seats fitted, two 6-point harnesses, a better steering wheel, kill switch, and additional instrumentation.
I'll relocate the battery to the boot, add a cold-air intake and get rid of the SLS and A/C.
Brakes will be rebuilt, dampers will be Bilstein or Koni, springs will be lowered King springs, brake pads by QFM and tyres I've just bought 2 sets of Yokohama A032RS 225/60-15
aerodynamics will be improved by front and rear spoilers. bonnet will get pins. race numbers will be applied
oh and that terrible window tinting has to go ..
I.
I just like the pin stripes... ::)
But seriously, well done Ian, you've finally got yourself a nice Team116 car 8)
What about the transmission? You always wanted a manual I remember. Are you planning on just keeping the auto and making do with it, or are trying to source a 4 Speed from somewhere (from either 280 or 350 donors)?
Cam seems to be having success running with the auto so I'll stick with that for a while until a manual box comes along.
Can't say I'm a fan of the pin stripes...
Thanks for the info and it is good to see an honest look at typical rusting in a 116.
What are the rocker panels and rear jacking ponts like?
Bill
Rocker panels on both sides look OK. Both jacking points on the passenger side have been tested and show no rust. Didn't test the other side but can't imagine they'd be that bad.
Here is a short video I shot which is just a walk-around of the car. We had intended to shoot a video of the car running to help diagnose the EFI problem (we think its trigger points) but noticed a not-too-insignificant leak on one of the injectors so decided not to chance it until that was fixed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlYIVLa8l5I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlYIVLa8l5I)
I.
Ian - Some questions:
* Is that interior bamboo or cognac?
* Are the seats leather or Tex?
* Does the SLS all work?
* Does the Becker work?
* Are you also removing the wheel-arch trims? Are they s/steel or plated brass?
The above - if they conform to my needs - would go well on my project (Crayford wagon). Interested in selling them?
Cheers
Gordon
Hi OBH, too early to tell at this stage. I know the interior is the same as my 6.9 and the seats are better, so I'm retaining them for that purpose.
Leather I guess.
I don't know if the SLS is working or not but I suspect so because the car isn't saggy in the back at all. You know how sometimes you see W116s and W126s with SLS sitting a good 2-3" lower in the back than the front? Thats failed SLS right??
Didn't test the becker, not even sure if it works or is just filling up a hole in the console
I'm going to keep the wheel-arch trims as they don't weigh much and add a touch of class.
It might be some time before excess items from this car are available for sale...i'll let you know when they are.
Ian.
Thaks, Ian.
Not wanting leather seats (I'm a Tex man), but if you're discarding the door trims etc. - and they are cognac - I'm interested.
Shall await your advice; I'm in no hurry whatever.
Cheers
G
Looks like a good car for racing Ian, good work!
will be most interested like everyone here in your racing adventures
Des :)
Welcome aboard brother from another mother...
Loverly work, and no sunroof or cruise control means you're already well ahead of me! ;)
Can't wait till we get both these girl's next to each other down the straights at winton... ;D
That steering wheel looks the goods!! Can't wait to hear the ol' girl fire up!
Once again, great work mate. ;) :)
Well done Ian - I'm sure this is going to a very exciting project and I applaud you for deciding to race a very unlikely race car.
Having gone a similar route with my Finny racer, I'm sure that you will be surprised at how well this car will eventually go and that, as road cars, they never lived up to their real potential. Many people laughed when I took the Finny out for the first time, but the car has turned out to be a very competant race car.
I'm sure that you will find that the brilliant basic engineering of the W116 will come through in your race preparation.
At the end of the day, the only real disadvantage that the Finny and the 450SE have, is their weight. I am busy going through my car at the moment in preparation for the new season and the Finny has gone on a strict diet, by means of a hole saw and pneumatic chisel. A racing friend referred me to an excellent book that every racing driver should read, and I highly recommend that you find a copy: 'The Unfair Advantage' by Mark Donohue, a very successful American racing driver and race engineer. One of the chapters talks about how they wanted to lighten their CanAm Camarro and they went to extreme lengths to get the body panels acid dipped to shed a few pounds. He also annoyed the regulators by drilling holes wherever he could with a hole saw. This is what I've done with the Finny:
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h305/aquariusg/002DesktopResolution.jpg)
The original door panels have been replaced, but the front door pockets, which are steel pressings covers in MB Tex, were tossed. I also removed the door panel's cover and cut huge chunks out of the hardboard backing, before reglueing the covers back. The weight saving on the front door panels was almost 2.5kg each!
By cutting out useless brackets, like the front mountings for the hooter, or the spare wheel mounting bracket, the kilos have disappeared. So far we've shed 34kg (that doesn't sound like much, but altogether the Finny wieghs 200kg less than standard), and the rear windscreen still has to be replaced with polycarbonate! The sound proofing against the bulkhead inside the engine compartment weighed 2kg alone, and the springs to hold up the boot lid weigh 450g each, so there's plenty of unnecessary weight being carried around.
It would be interesting to see how much the 450SE wieghs now in standard trim and how much it will weigh after the neccessary mods have been done.
I'm keen to hear of your progress with your car. Good luck!
Hi Ian,
Dude, pinstripes and sponsor stickers!! It's ready to race ;D
This is going to be intersting, congratulations! ;)
Firstly, I haven't seen an orignal radiator expansion tank, but it's no wonder they get replaced. The plastic W126 ones fit, eg HERE (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=5ksh1j45mo5fvm55lqjgzq45&makeid=800016@Mercedes&modelid=1194768@450SE&year=1975&cid=16@Cooling%20System&gid=2067@Expansion%20Tank/Coolant%20Reservoir) it's what I've got in the 350 but unfortunately the 280's I've got don't have them but I can pull the fuel reg off the yellow 280.
It'd be good if you could source or borrow another good distributor with good trigger points to rule that area in or out. Meantime, to check the trigger points, grab a stethescope or long screwdriver and put the end or blade onto the plastic part of each injector whilst it's running and your ear on the end of the screwdriver's handle (I'm sure you know that method but anyway, for those that don't) .
Each injector is easily heard ticking away. If the trigger points are faulty, jumping, stuck, dirty, lack of continuity etc - you'll hear non rythmic ticking or little or no "ticking" at all in two or more of the injectors. Furthermore, the injectors are paired to the four trigger points in the dizzy. So if one of the points is faulty, 2 opposite injectors will be misbehaving or inoperative, ie 1&5, or 2&6, or 3&7, or 4&8. If a single injector isn't ticking, it could be a range of things electrical, usually continuity, unusually the injector itself.
QuoteAt the end of the day, the only real disadvantage that the Finny and the 450SE have, is their weight.
I'm looking forward to it - I had quite a bit of success with the RX4 race car, a car not really suited to track work esp. in station wagon form, but to got acceptable times and top speeds out of it so we were pretty happy.
Initially the 450SE will run with standard running gear, the improvements will be made in the area of cornering, braking, and safety. Engine, auto trans and diff will stay stock for the moment until we sort out the bugs associated with the first few times you put a new car on the track.
One thing for sure, this will look unlike any other 450SE you've ever seen!
Cheers
Ian.
QuoteThis is going to be intersting, congratulations!
Thanks Oscar! Can't wait to hear the V8 roar, instead of wimper....
If you have a look in my wish list in Shop, if you can help me out with any of the other parts I need, let me know.
I.
Grant... those pics of the door trims etc, are FUKN GREAT!!!
I've been 'weighing' up my to-do list of track prep for ol' silver and interior stripping / weight is one of the biggest one's. The hole saw action is very genious indeed.
I love it! After I strip down all the interior and have re-done all the fuel tank / delivery etc. That's definite steps that will be taken for weight loss.
Mavric, this is all good stuff mate!! Can you have a look into when the first event is down your way? I need to set some goals.
I'm out.....
Cam ['Iceman'] 8) :D ;D ;)
(Formerly known as Mad Cam Rockatansky)
Colin Chapman was fanatical about making his Lotus' as light as possible, often to the extreme, which resulted in his cars being a bit fragile. However, the importance of 'lightness' and how it affects the power to weight ratio of a car cannot be overlooked.
A standard 230S Fintail develops about 84hp on the back wheels and weighs a hefty 1410kg, which results in a power to weight ratio of about 59bhp per ton.
My Finny racer now develops 105hp and weighs 1200kg and the resulting power to weight ratio is 87bhp per ton.
However, if you wanted to get the same power to weight ratio out of your standard 1410kg Fintail as I have in my racer, you would need to get 123hp off the back wheels, and that ain't going to happen without a kompressor!
By losing 50kg of weight in my racer - 1150kg - but keeping the same 105hp, the power to weight ratio increases to 91hp per ton.
So, how do you get your car to perform? Just add some lightness, as Colin Chapman said.
Quote from: Grant V on 08 January 2008, 12:40 PM
So, how do you get your car to perform? Just add some lightness, as Colin Chapman said.
have you considered having fibreglass panels made for your finnie?
Ian; you need to source some US 300SD alloy panels, for your boot, bonnet, fuel tank bulkhead, they are half the weight of the normal panels.
They're some pretty convincing figures Grant. Seems so obvious. No wonder jockeys are small.
It reminds me of the 350 rally car in that online article that says the weight reduction gave it a PWR similar to a 6.9. It's just a shame that part of lightening a w116 would invariably involve bumper removal. Don't you still have half your bumpers on the finnie Grant? I thought there was some chrome left on front?
Mine will stay with bumpers on... well until Cam turns out the be quicker with them removed :)
We'll just try it and see... whats the weight of a 450SE... does 1750kg sound right?
Des - I would love to fit fibergalss panels, but the regs nix that. Considering that the bootlid weighs 16kg and the bonnet 20kg, it would be a very good idea. I have been able to cut holes into the inner strengthening panels of the bootlid, as well as cutting out the cross bracing, which has relieved 2kg. And because these panels are so ridged and over-engineered, it still hasn't affected the strength of them.
Your further suggestion of sourcing ali panles from the 300SD is exactly what is needed, but if the regs allow them, I'm sure fiberglass panels will be far cheaper.
Oscar - I removed my front and rear bumpers, which added 50kg of lightness. The car certainly looks a bit undressed, but the answer would be to get them fabricated in aluminium - $$$$$
This is another example of how weight shedding makes a difference...
A few years back there was an episode of topgear where they took an old XJ V12 jag, 300HP, stripped everything non essential off the car, lights, bumpers, interior, window motors, etc.. etc.. gutted the car so it was only an engine in a shell, the 0-60 time was 1 second quicker with all the weight gone,
they saved 150KG's in weight by ripping everything out of it.
that thing is cool!!! i wish i could actually be apart of the crew!
Quote from: 500eguy on 11 January 2008, 05:23 PM
that thing is cool!!! i wish i could actually be apart of the crew!
We need to convince Michel to start up a downunder version, he can perform the proper automotive journalism, you, me and oscar and just screw around, blow stuff up, smash cars up we don't like, drive fast cars and generally be arrogant and rude
:D :D