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Tallest candle on the cake of crazy prices

Started by BCK1963, 24 April 2022, 03:12 PM

BCK1963


https://www.gipimotor.com/en/classic/sale/mercedes-benz-450-sel-6-9-ex-claude-francois-1977.html

They are asking 185.000 €.

Apparently the car suffers from the heavy burden of this price in that it is unable to remain on driving level even for the few minutes of taking photos.
Bernd

1976 Merc 6.9  since 2013

rumb

Seems there was another kienle "restored" 6.9 on BAT not that long ago. A lot of comments pointed out the poor restoration.  The engine bay on this one looks quite tired.
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS

nathan

I thought it looked ok, nice colour. 185k euro is a lot of coin thats for sure!

If Keinle did a true, resto, it would be very nicely done.  Ive had a walk through of their facility and its very impressive.  I didnt feel they would like me putting up vids of the workshop, but did a small video of the dude showing me the hydro strut workshop bench! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdFkwO9nr6Y&t=42s they know what they are doing.
6.9 79 #6436
6.9 79 #6290
6.9 79 #6181
6.9 78 #4764
6.9 77 #3096
6.9 76 #1741
6.9 76 #0902
6.9 75 #0018

UTn_boy

Keinle is good a a lot of things.....paint, body work, etc. However, they are not well versed in fine details, nor are they capable of putting cars back the way they're supposed to be.  They are not all they're cracked up to be.  Don't be fooled. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

nathan

UTN,
I dont think anyone on this forum is likely to use Kienles services, based on geography and cost.  But after seeing their facilities in person, I would suggest they would restore a vehicle better than pretty much anyone.  I dont think they are in the business of trying to swindle anyone.  They noted they had some parts for struts manufactured themselves, something none of us would easily do based on our small market.
6.9 79 #6436
6.9 79 #6290
6.9 79 #6181
6.9 78 #4764
6.9 77 #3096
6.9 76 #1741
6.9 76 #0902
6.9 75 #0018

BCK1963

It is not the first time that Kienle is said to not live up to their reputation and prices. Others may better be able to judge that as I have never seen their work in detail. Fact is: They belong to the 'better than new'-fraction which seems to be a bit out-of-time given the trend to preserve patina and 'personality' of cars.
But I can judge their rates: I once called some shops for transmission overhaul rates. Several offers were 2000 - 3000 maximum, Kienle said 4000 minimum. (Luckily I didn't need it eventually).
On the other hand, I purchased original MB parcel shelf cloth and carpet to make floor mats. They have charged ca. 40 € / sqm of the original material. Seemed ok to me. But with a total bill of ca. 100 € I sort of felt like being strangely looked at. They are more accustomed to dealing with folks that pay 6- or 7-digit figures without checking the individual items of the bill. 
Nonetheless, a walk through their workshop is impressive: On my way to the upholstery I enterd through a side door without being noticed. An asian tourist group was just being led around. They have some 20 lifts with cars being worked on, ca. half of them being Gullwings. The upholstery guy was very friendly and sent me samples for comparison in advance.

The story of Kienle is interesting: The owner, Klaus Kienle, started as a mechanic at MB. By the time the 300 SL and 600 were outdated and MB began to reduce parts supply and service, he started his business with focus on these cars. With access to factory parts, tools and data it seemd to have worked out well.

The downside:
Some Classic Cars journals reference Kienle and their rates when writing about parts and repair costs particularly for the 6.9. I attribute that, at least to a certain extent, to the bad reputation that the 6.9 has in Germany in these terms. Maintaining the car is not a bargain, but it is not that expensive.
Bernd

1976 Merc 6.9  since 2013

rumb

They noted they had some parts for struts manufactured themselves, something none of us would easily do based on our small market. "

@tcj in Germany has made not only the strut seals but also the rubber bumps stops and the front cups. I have made the seals. You are correct that it is not easy though it is mostly the financial cost of making something and then >5 years to pay it off with small sales. I spent time and $ trying to make chin spoilers but the cost to make was $1200 each, hardly economic to undertake making even 20 of them.



I'm sure Keinle does lots of great work, however I have seen 2 cars that are quite lacking in certain details. Perhaps the car owners didn't request those items to be done?? This car posted the engine bay is quite worn out.
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS

UTn_boy

Quote from: nathan on 26 April 2022, 08:18 PMUTN,
I dont think anyone on this forum is likely to use Kienles services, based on geography and cost.  But after seeing their facilities in person, I would suggest they would restore a vehicle better than pretty much anyone.  I dont think they are in the business of trying to swindle anyone.  They noted they had some parts for struts manufactured themselves, something none of us would easily do based on our small market.

No, unfortunately, they are not able to restore a car better than anyone.  None of the cars I've seen that they had their hands on were restored correctly.  While they may not be out to swindle anyone, I have to mention their commentary at an Essen show from three years ago.  They were approached at the Essen car show by some people who asked them about their inconsistencies in finer details, and why they weren't put/restored back they way they were from the factory.  Their reply was something along the lines of "We don't really care.  The job is done, we have their money, and they have their car." 

Again, they are not all they're cracked up to be.  They overcharge for mediocrity and have no reservations about doing it.  In my minds eye, they're not at all noteworthy past the asinine prices they charge for mediocre work. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo