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Rarity of 450 SEL 4.5 vs 6.9

Started by Guru, 17 May 2018, 09:56 PM

Guru

I was surprised to find that registered standard 4.5 liter 450SEL seem to be almost as rare by now as the 6.9:

In the U.K. there are 27 of the 4.5 compared to 18 of the 6.9 registered as of 2017.

In Queensland (where 20% of Australians live) there are 2 registered for roadway use (no breakdown as to 4.5 or 6.9) as of 30 June 2017.

And in Germany as of 2017 there are approx. 381 (production ratio applied to 647 450SE and 450SEL) 4.5 litre cars on the road and 209 of the 6.9 models.

I am interested to know numbers in the U.S. but they seem difficult to get.

So ... there are not even twice as many 4.5 left as 6.9 which is surprising given production of 7380 6.9ers and 59578 of the 4.5.

My stats do not consider unregistered cars but I suppose that if they are in drivable and in good condition most will be registered. And I don't believe that there are large numbers of unregistered 4.5 sitting around but not 6.9ers.

Your thoughts please...
1975 450SEL 4.5 White

daantjie

To get accurate numbers for the US at least will be nigh impossible. I believe the VIN format alone (non 17 digit) makes a database search very tough.
I would guess there are less than 100 6.9's left in NA in decent, roadworthy  condition.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

Pete49

Mine will be registered (club rego) once it has a couple bits replaced. Getting the bits (A/C) is the problem.
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

TJ 450

I'm not surprised, as even though there were many more 4.5s built, they haven't had the same sort of "it might be worth something one day" attached to them. Thus, the vast majority would have been scrapped, whereas the 6.9s often ended up stored away.

That's my theory anyhow.

There's still quite a few getting around in Australia though. It sounds like all the Qld ones must have left and come to WA.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Guru

TJ450 I second that theory. I just made sure that Qld won't run out of 450SELs.
1975 450SEL 4.5 White

nathan

I have 53 recorded 6.9s in QLD.  im a bit time poor to review if wrecks or registered at the moment, but thats a lot of 6.9s! thats out of about 270 6.9s I have records on nation wide.
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

robertd

And looks like you have the lion share of them
116   1978 450SEL 6.9 #  4848
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 5884
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 6225  SOLD
116   1978 450SEL  6.9 # 5128  SOLD
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 5884  SOLD
116   1974 450SEL  DJet

Guru

Nathan, that is a nice list of 6.9s you own.

My query was with the Queensland Government Statistician's Office (Queensland Treasury) last month. You say you are aware of 53 6.9 in Qld. Add the 4.5 to that and there must be quite a lot of these here. With only two registered for road use I assume the overwhelming majority are projects or less. Those in your list are from owners?

Chris
1975 450SEL 4.5 White

Type17

Quote from: TJ 450 on 18 May 2018, 01:48 AM
I'm not surprised, as even though there were many more 4.5s built, they haven't had the same sort of "it might be worth something one day" attached to them. Thus, the vast majority would have been scrapped, whereas the 6.9s often ended up stored away.


Definitely the case with all classics - if you look at Mk1 VW Golfs (Rabbit in USA) at car shows worldwide, most survivors are GTI models, despite being only 10% of production. Similar applies in the UK/Ireland to Ford Escorts - the proportion of RS1600/RS2000/XR3i models is way over their original production percentages.
'76 350SE in Silver-Green

floyd111

I know that 350's are abundant in Germany, vs other countries, and I would expect many of the surviving 450's to be there as well.

ngruzevs

The W116 is starting to become a rare beast. I assume many were wrecked due to the cost of keeping them on the road, while their W107 SL/SLC cousins lived pampered lives.

A chap detailed the following Australian delivery numbers for 450SEL/450SEL 6.9 (source MB Classic Centre)

Year 450 SEL (Units) 450 SEL 6.9 (Units)
1973 - 98,
1974 - 311,
1975 - * *,
1976 - 305 , 0
1977 - 271 , 0
1978 - 237 , 87
1979 - 277 , 140
1980 - 40, 1
Total - 1539 , 228

1971 MK2 Jensen Interceptor
1979 W116 450SE
1987 W126 300SE
2007 Lexus LS460
2018 Hyundai i30N

ptashek

Quote from: ngruzevs on 18 May 2018, 05:02 PM
The W116 is starting to become a rare beast.

The 6.9 is certainly getting increased interest from the "serious collector" crowd in the last couple years, if auctions are anything to go by.
Recently a low mileage 6.9, owned from new by MB France and no concourse car by any means, sold for £47k (64k USD / 85k AUD) at auction.
The other models are still mostly as unloved as ever.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

nathan

#12
Guru,
I would be very sceptical of the numbers from the government. back then the cars were probably poorly recorded and ive seen that on cars ive wrecked.  they may have been put down as 116, w116, 450, 450sel, 450 sel as examples. slight typos mean you never find them!
your sentiments are certainly correct though, my threshold to wreck 6.9s is much higher than 450s, ive probably pulled apart 6-7 450s, the rest were 280s. ive never wrecked a 350 as they are quite rare!
it seems more state governments are coming up with online rego checks which enable you to check VINs. whilst they cover some of the chassis numbers, the good thing with 6.9s is they often show you the last 4 digits, which is what you want to know with a 6.9!
regards
PS RD, thats the pot calling the kettle black!
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

ngruzevs

I'm also not sure state based road authorities check their historic vehicle permit (CPS) database. In Vic this is a seperate DB to full registration DB. I find it hard to believe there's only two registered 450SEL's in Queensland.
1971 MK2 Jensen Interceptor
1979 W116 450SE
1987 W126 300SE
2007 Lexus LS460
2018 Hyundai i30N

Guru

nathan & ngruzefs

You're right. I've just downloaded the Qld vehicle rego data myself (from https://data.qld.gov.au/dataset/vehicle-registrations/resource/edd505f7-70da-451d-b4cc-6d91f01714d9) and ran a query making sure to look at all records that are Merc and have '450' in any form (ignoring blanks, etc). There are 20 which includes 450, 450SEL, 450SL, 450SLC. So I still get 2 '450SEL' but also 4 '450', two of which are coupes. Meaning there are 2 definite 450SEL and 2 possible one but these could be something else.

If anyone needs data from the Queensland rego database I am happy to query for you since I have it in Access now.

Haven't found the Qld club rego db yet.

Chris
1975 450SEL 4.5 White