Raptelan's 1980 300SD

[Casey]

In support of the "Send Joe's Children to College" fund, I bought a W123 300CD Turbo in dire need of some love and attention.  I think the other one would have been a better deal honestly, but the seller stopped responding after I asked about the engine (I sent repeated inquiries), this one was local, and half the cost.  The shocks are shot, the windshield gasket looks to be made mostly of some hardware store goo, only one front window and one rear window work, the engine looks like an oil can exploded all over it, and when you shift it into gear the engine dies unless you hit the gas right away.  Oh, and the brake booster vacuum is broken so no power assist on the brakes which is a little jarring...  But the body's good and interior isn't bad. I'll take better pictures when I pick it up next week.

[koan]

Nice buy. Shame they never came to AUS, I'd have one.

koan

[1980sdga]

Congrats!!  I like the red and black!

[jbrasile]

Hehehehe.... cool car Casey!!!

No children to send to college... but it will help the "500SLC buy back fund" or the newly created "Porsche 944S2 Fund" ( drove one and I am in love....)

All kidding aside, I suppose the first item to look at is the lack of boost for the brakes. The good thing is 123's are super tough and simple to work on. Funny this engine dying in gear thing... It could very well be just the idle out of adjustment. How many rpm in N?

Keeps us posted and let's see pictures!

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

All kidding aside, I suppose the first item to look at is the lack of boost for the brakes.

It should be quite easy to fix - the main brake booster cable (similar to the one I ordered a replacement for on my W116), has a hose attachment missing - it's just open to the environment.  I didn't have too long to look at the car and at the asking price of $2k, didn't really care.  I know it's going to be a project car.  The seller has been using it as a daily driver for the last year since he bought it, so it's road worthy, just highly neglected.  He attributed the engine dying to bad fuel filters that he hadn't replaced but who knows.  As for the brakes, he just mentioned they were "a bit stiff" before I took it for a test drive and nearly failed to stop at a sign.   It's all a matter of what you're used to I guess.

[Casey]

Funny story...  I went to see the 300CD yesterday morning.  Girlfriend was all bent out of shape about it because I wouldn't tell her where I was going or anything about it because I wanted it to be a surprise.  So she was all upset about me keeping a secret and so on all day.  Last night she got all pissed off and decided she was going to go drive somewhere by herself.  She goes to leave, and her Oldsmobile Alero won't start - rather it starts and immediately dies.  Seems the fuel pump went bad (that's happened before).  But the electric door locks went out too so maybe it's a wiring short or something (all fuses and relays are good).

So anyways now she's stuck with an inoperable car and doesn't know I'm picking this one up in another week.

[Casey]

So in theory a 215/70-14 tire (150.5 mm) would be closer to a 185HR14 than a 205 but since 215/70-14 is a difficult size to find and it was exclusive to the 6.9, the usual upgrade is 205/70-14.

According to Michelin's website, the Harmony is available in 215/70-14 - whereas it is NOT available in 205/70-14.

http://michelinman.com/tire-selector/size/pmetric/215/70/14/tires

[jbrasile]

Oh oh.... it was available in 205/70-14!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Harmony&partnum=07SR4HARMONYV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

But it looks like the Tire Rack only has 2ea left!!!

Sears may still have a few too. It is becoming more and more difficult to get these. Looks like Vedrestein might be the only way to go if you don't want Hankooks, Kumhos or Sumitomos... but they are $274.00 a tire from Universal Vintage tire. Nice thing is the look is just right and they are VR rated...

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Oh oh.... it was available in 205/70-14!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Harmony&partnum=07SR4HARMONYV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

But it looks like the Tire Rack only has 2ea left!!!

Sears may still have a few too. It is becoming more and more difficult to get these. Looks like Vedrestein might be the only way to go if you don't want Hankooks, Kumhos or Sumitomos... but they are $274.00 a tire from Universal Vintage tire. Nice thing is the look is just right and they are VR rated...

Why wouldn't I just get these?  I thought you said 215/70 was more ideal anyways:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Harmony&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=17SR4HARMONYV2&tab=Sizes

(not actually going to have money to get tires any time soon anyways)

[jbrasile]

Yes, 215/70-14 will give you closer diameter to 185HR14 than  205/70-14 but you end up up a wider contact patch and slightly higher unsprung weight. The 6.9 suspension has minor differences that are suited to a wider tire.

I tried 215/70-14 Dunlop D65's on the 80 450SEL and I did not like it, the car just didn't handle right. Maybe it was a bad choice of tire brand, I am not sure. Switched back to MXV4's 205/70-14 (unfortunately NLA...) and all was well again.

You can go either way, I am just talking from experience and being picky...

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Yes, 215/70-14 will give you closer diameter to 185HR14 than  205/70-14 but you end up up a wider contact patch and slightly higher unsprung weight. The 6.9 suspension has minor differences that are suited to a wider tire.

Joe, what's the difference between 185HR14 and 185R14?  Any experience with these?:
http://store.cokertire.com/185r14-phoenix-3-4-whitewall-tire.html

I like the narrow whitewalls, and these seem well-suited for MB.  Or are they?

Looks like these are made by Michelin, and there was even a W116 option code for them (658)?

[jbrasile]

Casey,

185HR14 or 185R14 are the exact same size except the HR is rated to 130MPH whereas the R14 is probably an S tire rated at 110MPH.

This was the original size used on 300SD's

Phoenix was OEM to MB for decades, in fact I just evaluated a 67 300SEL today that was imported from the US and it has these Phoenix installed. I drove the car and it handled just fine, good ride characteristics too, the tires  in question are 185HR14 so you might want to ask Coker if that's the case for the ones currently available.

Not a bad choice for originality sake, but a tad expensive, if they are made by Michelin, that is even better.

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Picked up the 300CD Turbo today.  Noticed there's collision damage to the passenger door that I didn't see before because of how it was parked.  Also noticed more rust spots that I didn't see in the quick glance I got before.  Sorry state overall.  Decided I wanted it anyways - $2000 seemed a fair deal and there's worse I could waste money on.  AAA towed it to my house, then I had to pick up a new battery and go get the 300SD out of the shop (yep, a 2 month old brand new Autocraft Gold battery went tits up!).

Got back just before sunset.  Took it for a test drive, being aware that the brake booster is out of commission this time.  Determined brakes are fine as long as I put enough force into the pedal, so I tried putting force into the gas pedal.  HOLY SHIT!  This thing accelerates like nobody's business!  Compared to the 300SD, it is tremendously powerful.  I've got to figure out how to get the SD working this well.  Granted, when accelerating hard, it spewed tons of smoke out the back and stank from the blackness covering the engine burning off, not to mention that it stalls when shifted into gear unless you hit the gas, but when she goes, she GOES.  At a stop sign I did a U-turn, flooring the gas from a dead stop, and the rear tires started burning rubber and drifting.  There are no aftermarket add-ons to the car, and she looks pretty neglected compared to mine.  What can I do to get this amazing performance in my W116??  Supposedly this vehicle is only 3hp more than mine, but it feels more like 50+...

The wires are Michelin Weatherwise 195/70/14's - could this smaller radius be making all the difference?

Anyways the 300CD is definitely a project car in dire need of lots of love, but I'm enjoying it!

[jbrasile]

Casey,

My sister has an 84 300CDT and I had a 79 300SD when she bought the car back in 1992, I felt the same difference you are talking about, the CD is just so much faster!

A couple of things that could account for the superior performance I think are less weight, a different transmission and maybe a different waste gate on the turbo.
As far as I know there will always be this power gap between the two.

The tires don't really do anything.  300CDT's have gasoline car performance, and the sedans are about the same.

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

A couple of things that could account for the superior performance I think are less weight, a different transmission and maybe a different waste gate on the turbo.
As far as I know there will always be this power gap between the two.

The weight difference is less than 400 pounds.  I'll bet I can load 400 pounds in the car and still get similar performance.

Can I swap the W123 transmission and/or turbo parts to the W116?  I'll find a sedan to raid...