Raptelan's 1980 300SD

[Casey]

They tend to rust around the trunk seal and under the rear window so check that with the trunk lid open. Also look at the bottom of the front fenders  for bubbles. The side window seals are pretty long and since it is a pillarless coupe check for water/air leaks there, the rubber is expensive.

...

How many miles?

The car does have a few rockchips, one small dent/scratch in the rear passenger quarter panel and the stitching behind the driver seat needs to be redone.  The rear driver side window does not work but the other three do.  The sunroof opens but needs to be closed by hand.  There is no rust in the sunroof track or anywhere else on the car according to the seller.  It has 297k miles - the engine was "overhauled" about 2 years ago, whatever that might mean, said to be running very strong now.  The A/C is said to be working along with the cruise control.  It is an imported car originally sold in Europe, hence the European bumpers and headlights (wouldn't mind changing the headlights to US spec at some point maybe - were the bumpers any different on W123's?).

[jbrasile]

Hmmmm.... I take it back.... after reading your brief description I don't think this is a 4k car, not even a 3k car, more like 2k...

I don't really like to buy these cars when the seller says the engine was "overhauled". A complete a proper rebuilt of an OM617 is quite expensive and unless there are receipts to prove the work was done correctly and all necessary parts were replaced I'd rather walk away.

This is NOT an Euro car, 300CD's and SD's were never sold in Europe when new, they are US only cars. The bumpers are not european, but MB did a much better job of integrating the impact absorbing bumpers into the 123 design than on the 107 & 116. They did install euro headlights though which I think look much better than the round US units.

All in all it sounds like it is going to need quite a bit of detail work and expense  and maybe it's just not the right car.

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Joe - wow, that's some harsh judgement!

Can you tell me option codes (and what they mean)/etc. from the VIN?? It's WDB123153120014288.

[jbrasile]

Hehehe.... harsh.... no, just realistic... we all know how expensive it is to bring these cars up to our standards so we always have to take that into consideration and the engine issue is iffy in my opinion. Diesel engines are true work horses  but they are also a lot more expensive to rebuild than a gasoline power plant because every component is over engineered to withstand a much more violent operational cycle. I don't want to be unfair but just saying that the engine was rebuild with no proof of the work done doesn't guarantee anything, besides 297k is not such a high mileage that would warrant an overhaul so who knows what may have happened...


The datacard is really goofy, sometimes the EPC does not give you accurate info, this one says code 623 is "Version for Gulf States" when it actually denotes the color DB623 Ivory, just like your 300SD by the way.

I have been able to decode the datacard as follows:



410 - sliding sunroof
440 - cruise control
451 - tach
467 - central locking and instruments in english
491 - USA version
531 - power antenna
570 - front folding arm rest
588 - automatic climate control and power windows
592 - heat insulating glass and windshield with dark band at the top
640 - alloy wheels
663 - 60 liters of fuel
673 - high capacity battery
802 - change of year model, last year shows year
820 - ?

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Also, I'm not able to find dry weight of the 300CD - is this information in EPC?  I've really got to find me a copy of that at some point.  From some random googling it seems this car doesn't get that good of gas mileage even though it's surely lighter than the 300SD - that doesn't seem it can be right can it?  Because I am pretty sure I got better mileage in every 240D 3.0L/300D I owned (W115, W123, and W124) than the 300SD.  I used to measure the 240D 3.0L and would average over 40mpg consistently regardless of how hard I drove the car.  It didn't have any turbo but I didn't think turbo was supposed to negatively influence gas mileage?

Also is it just me or are the front wheels larger than the back ones?  The wheel well is certainly bigger in the front.  Why would this be?

I am still inclined to buy it regardless of the issues known.    My girlfriend's Alero has a lot of miles and a number of issues and is not really worth the bother and expense of fixing completely.  It averages around 23mpg so the 300CD would be easier on gas even if it's not any better than the 300SD.  Not really worth much to sell either, but it will hold up indefinitely while fixing up the 300CD and would be a decent spare car afterwards should I decide to do any more time-consuming projects with my 300SD.  I will probably try to see if the seller will accept a lower offer, after I hear back further details regarding the engine work and why it was done and some other things I asked him to check specifically.

[Casey]

802 - change of year model, last year shows year

Do you know what exactly that means??

[jbrasile]

Casey,

From period road tests, etc... OM617 equipped cars have consistently delivered better gas mileage than non turbo's. Interesting that your 240D 3.0 returned 40mpg, a friend used to own a 76 300D (same exact car) and it would not do better than 23-25 on the highway where my 300SD would return 27-29 which by the way my sister's 84 300CD will do as well. The 124 300D Turbo is different, that car should run around 35 mpg with 148hp on tap, not bad at all... so I would expect the 300CDT in question to do as good or better than your 300SD.

Curb weight on a 300CDT is: 3571 pounds

The front end looks right, from certain angles it does look like the front is wider than the back, but I think it's just an optical illusion, he may have wider tires in front too which will contribute to this impression.

Oh and by the way, if you would like to subscribe to the EPC, it is free for US version cars or US$12.00 for the rest of the world models.

Here is the link:

http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/

Good call on getting the engine work information, if everything checks out and you feel comfortable with the purchase then go for it! And as always you can count on my full support!

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Interesting that your 240D 3.0 returned 40mpg, a friend used to own a 76 300D (same exact car)

What's the difference between a 240D 3.0L and 300D?  Because it was simply labelled 240D, but had a 5-cylinder engine for sure.  I believe most 1976 E-class sedans were W123's actually, because I always had troubles when buying filters, brake pads, etc. at auto parts stores - I just got into the habit of telling them it was a 1975 instead.

I'm not sure what sort of mileage I get with the 300SD as my odometer is broken, but it's not too bad.  I'm pretty sure it's been notably better since I got the transmission serviced as well, though maybe I just am seeing things as I haven't driven it a whole lot yet.

The 124 300D Turbo is different, that car should run around 35 mpg with 148hp on tap, not bad at all...

I had a W124 300D Non-Turbo with the same OM603 engine - it was a 1986 grey market.  I'd always have to tell auto parts stores that it was a 1987 to get them to find anything.

Curb weight on a 300CDT is: 3571 pounds

Whoa nice, that's about 600 pounds  more than I was guessing!

[jbrasile]

Casey,

Your 240D 3.0  was an euro right? MB only used the 300D badge on US W115 cars, in Europe it was called the 240D 3.0, they did that because the 300 badge had always been associated with their top of the line models but that  philosophy was abandoned with the introduction of the 123 series.

123's were introduced by mid 76 as 77 models, therefore in the States when you asked for a 76 300D part they should have been able to ID the car as a 115, oh well... mechanically both cars are almost identical as far as filters etc...

By the way code 802 is something that MB started using I believe around 1982 when they changed the sequence on their VIN numbers from all numbers to letters and numbers. This 300CD you are looking at for example is a 123153 12 0014288 and in their system it is also a WDBAB53A9BC0014288, somewhere in this code you can ID the year of the vehicle.

Tks,

Joe

[Casey]

Your 240D 3.0  was an euro right? MB only used the 300D badge on US W115 cars, in Europe it was called the 240D 3.0, they did that because the 300 badge had always been associated with their top of the line models but that  philosophy was abandoned with the introduction of the 123 series.

Nope, it was US.  Big US bumpers which is where I learned to love them - this was my first Mercedes ever.  I'd only owned two cars prior - a 1991 Geo Metro purchased for $260 that had a bad engine (got about 50% compression out of one of it's three cylinders) and ended up being totaled by somebody who test drove it, and a 1991 Toyota Corolla purchased for $1000 that the transmission went bad in.  I wasn't looking for a Mercedes then, but had a chance to buy it for monthly payments from a previous landlord, so it was a car I could afford.  Cost me $3000 in total.

But you know what - the guy who sold it to me said it was a five-cylinder, and I wasn't much of a car person then.  For the last decade I've been believing it was a 3.0L as a result (boy am I an idiot!).  I just loaded up my old pictures to look at to check, and boy do I feel stupid as I find myself staring at a 4-cylinder OM616.  That would explain the better gas mileage.

Pictures here

[jbrasile]

Hehehe... yes, good old OM616, super gas mileage but oh sooooooooooo slow....

Joe

[1980sdga]

That is a really cool car. It would be tempting...

Those look like junkyard markings on the valve cover.   Maybe it's a junkyard replacement?  May not be a bad thing but it does make me wonder...

[thysonsacclaim]

Raptelan,

If you do switch the head lights out at some point, let me know as I would love to purchase some Euro lights (depends on price).


Adam

[Casey]

If you do switch the head lights out at some point, let me know as I would love to purchase some Euro lights (depends on price).

You know they're W123 lights, right?  Aren't those different from W116?  Anyways I'm not sure if I'm even going to get the car - I haven't heard back from the seller since E-mailing again Thursday night, and my girlfriend lost her job yesterday, which makes me think I should probably try to save up a little money myself since I don't have any savings, instead of buying another car.  I don't know...I'll probably try to make a lower offer if I do hear back from the seller, as we both do really like this car.

[thysonsacclaim]

If you do switch the head lights out at some point, let me know as I would love to purchase some Euro lights (depends on price).

You know they're W123 lights, right?  Aren't those different from W116?  Anyways I'm not sure if I'm even going to get the car - I haven't heard back from the seller since E-mailing again Thursday night, and my girlfriend lost her job yesterday, which makes me think I should probably try to save up a little money myself since I don't have any savings, instead of buying another car.  I don't know...I'll probably try to make a lower offer if I do hear back from the seller, as we both do really like this car.

Ack! That's what I get for not reading the whole thread; been trying to follow but have been a bit busy lately. Sorry  

I was assuming it was from your 300 SD.


Adam