PROJECT "OBTAIN A 6.9"

[s class]

Well I've done some enquiries.  It seems it is not too impossibly difficult to import a classic car to South Africa.  The car must be older than 20 years to qualify, os I'm OK there.

STEP 1 : Register with the South African Revenue Service (SARS - out tax authority) as an importer.
STEP 2 : Identify the car to be purchased.
STEP 3 : Identify and contract an authorised forwading/clearing agent to handle the logistics. 
STEP 4 : Forward the particulars of this car to the SARS and apply for a one-time permit to import this car
supposing this is granted :
STEP 5 : Effect payment for said vehicle and have the car prepared for shipping
STEP 6 : Have the forwarding agent collect it in Australia and bringit to South Africa.
STEP 7 : Present the import permit and sale documentation to customs to have the goods cleared and released, and a clearance certificate issued.
STEP 8 : have the car freighted to my house
STEP 9 : Approach the local vehicle licensing authority with the customs clearance certificate and salses documentation.
STEP 10 : they will probably request a police clearance, and may issue  temporary permit to drive the car to the police clearance faclilty.
STEP 11 : Revisit the vehcile licensing authority with the police clearance certificate and proceed normally as for a localy purchase vehicle. 

Right now step 1 is the least appealing because it amounts to applying to the tax man to have ones affairs closely scrutinised.

Step 4 will apparently take about 2 weeks, so the seller of the vehicle under consideration would need to accept this. 

At customs I will have to pay importation duty which will apparently be 20% of the purchase cost. 

So I can expect to pay the followng :

Purchase of car : AUs$ : 8000 to 10000
Shipping :           AUS$ : 6000 approx
import duty :       AUS$ : 2000 approx
license/reg etc :  AUS$ : 100

So all in all it will cost about AUS$17000 or so to get a 6.9 

I watched Ronin last night to help encourage me................

I plan to initiate this process next year, so to all of you who have offered to help in various ways - thanks so much - but I need to wait until next year. 

Ryan

[oscar]

Now, I'm not very well travelled, or good with geography, or very smart at times, but when the idea of importing to SA from Oz first popped up, my first thought was you should go to europe and buy one and drive it home. I know, I just looked at a globe.  Hey, it's possible but boy, what a trip.

You could always take Michael Palin and a camera crew with you and make a documentary of your trip. Imagine "Pole to Pole (sort of) in a 6.9" .  DVD sales alone will pay for the fuel and the car. 

[michaeld]

S class,
I'll occasionally look up my area (Riverside-LA counties) on eBay and hook you up w/ any promising links I stumble across.  Everyone knows that in California, the grass is greener, the sun is sunnier, the cows are happier, and the old Benzes are less rusty...  (Everyone DOES know that, right?).

Now that the search is potentially global, that would at least give you some idears as to price-quality relationships.  Maybe some other forum members would be willing to check out their necks of the woods if it would help you out.  You seem like a fine feller what who deserves a good "6.9-kick."

Good luck w/ your search.  May the stoic and austere gods of the big block classic Germanic V-8s be with you.
Mike

[s class]

Big Richard,

Yes the Australian spec cars appeal to me because we have a similar climate.  Emigrating to Aus is actually a possibility in the mid future for me, and a concern, because it woul make this whole complex exercise pointless. 

Oscar, you are forgiven about the geography.  Mine's pretty bad too.  Here in my office I now have a map of Aus pinned up where I'm marking the locations that suitable forwarding agents may pickup from, and the locations of cars under
consideration. 

As to driving from Europe - they did it once in the 1990's when the Dakar rally followed a Paris - Cape Town route.  Note that this was the DAKAR RALLY - not a suitable route for a 6.9.  and no I'm not sure the DVD sales would cover the fuel for 10 000km? 

I have targetted Australia because :
* there seems to be a reasonable selection of cars at fair prices
* I may not import a LHD car, and so I must look to countries that drive RHD cars.
* the Aus climate means that it should be possible to find a car with minimal rust.
* The Aus regulations on car specs are similar to ours, which will make it easier to license the car here.

Michael D - thanks for the offer, but as I stated above, I cannot consider LHD cars.  As to whether I deserve a 6.9 kick or not, I dunno.  I just have driven one now, albeit with problems, and it was a compelling experience that convinced me I cannot rest until this mission is complete. 

Yes I think the gods of the cast-iron mercedes V8 must be austere.  Smiling is not permitted, even under full throttle take-off

Ryan

[aussie 6.9]

Small point re Aussie 6.9s.Some came with velour trim, not leather. Regards Aussie 6.9. 

[OzBenzHead]

Small point re Aussie 6.9s.Some came with velour trim, not leather. Regards Aussie 6.9. 

And very sensibly, too.  Give me velour or M-B Tex any day for longevity and ease of maintenance in the Oz climate. Leather requires far too much extra care, without which it goes hard and horrible (and slippery!).

I have one leather trimmed Benz and three in Tex. The leather in the 41-year-old is not as good condition as the Tex in the other 41-year-old - despite the leather-trimmed car having seen far more particular care than has the Tex-trimmed example. I've had many English cars with leather (and it's usually far better leather than what you'll find in a Benz), and whilst they smelled nice, they cost a fortune in time and materials to keep in good shape; even then they gave up the ghost in climates north of Melbourne.

[michaeld]

Michael D - thanks for the offer, but as I stated above, I cannot consider LHD cars.

Steve Martin once spoke some words that have become quite famous, and it seems appropriate to quote them here: "Well Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse ME!"

I'm just kidding.  Actually, I genuinely appreciate the candor.  More than once, I have offered to do something that took a fair amount of effort on my part, and the person turned out to be such a co-dependent personality that they could not tell me, "Thanks, but no thanks," meaning I went to a bunch of effort for nothing.

As for:

As to whether I deserve a 6.9 kick or not, I dunno.

It seems to me that you do, based on the fact that your pocketbook is sufficiently full to make the purchase, and your wife is sufficiently tolerant to let you make it.  I mean, I certainly hope that there isn't a vote to repossess Styria's car if he ever demonstrates some character flaw!

I actually went to eBay after my last post and looked for a 6.9 w/in 100 miles of my 92801 zip code.  Every other night that I remember looking for w116s on eBay w/ that criterion, I've seen at least one 6.9.    But that night... butkus.

You know, one thing that would be interesting to me - speaking of 6.9s - would be to see how they fair today vs. the 4.5s.  Obviously the 6.9s are quicker, but how much quicker after 27-30 years of gracefully aging?  And how about that hydropneumatic suspension vs. the zero offset and anti-squat of the 450SELs?  How much more superb (and I must here add, if at all) is the handling?

I'm just not the kind of guy who stomps on his accelerator pedal, or I'd post my times (in seconds) reaching various speeds from zero mph.  I have actually been quite impressed at the low end power of my 4.5, and VERY impressed of its mid-upper range power from 60-90 mph.

I'm actually quite interested in the suspensions of the 6.9s relative to the 4.5s.  Both were truly revolutionary in terms of the rest of the market at the time.  As I understand it, MBz STILL uses the zero offset concept in its cars today.  But I really don't know anything about the hydropneumatics: does this technology continue to be used in cars today, or was it essentially a technological "gimmic" of the 70s that proved unsustainable due to some failing?

I do know this: w116s were truly good cars, and the 6.9 was the flagship w116.  It is certainly is worth obtaining, even though the 300SDs (diesels) are actually selling for more $$$ in today's fuel-paranoid markets.

I'm glad you're watching and waiting, and I hope the waiting pays off for you.
Mike

[s class]

michael d,

I know my 280SE euro very well, and I think it's in top condition mechanically.  I have never driven a 450SE/SEL, but I found that my 450SL seems front heavy, like you are swinging the weight of the big engine around.  I was unsure if this was a) because of the weight of the engine or b) the limitations of the R107 chassis.  Either way, I was worried that I might find a large-engined W116 suffered the same problems and seem less well balanced than my 280SE. 

Well I still haven't driven a 450SE/SEL but I have now driven the 6.9 with an even heavier engine and I believe that it is not a problem.  I detected no front-end heaviness, and the car was just as agile and well balanced as my 280SE.  I conclude that this must also be true for the 450SE/SEL which has an engine midway between the 280 and 6.9.

The 6.9 I drove was in nowhere near as good condition as my 280SE, yet I was very very impressed with the suspension.  Crisp and precise, supple without being spongy.  I was blown away at the anti-squat behaviour - my plain vanilla 280SE doesn't have the anti-squat linkages, and now I'm painfully aware at how it squats.  Remember, it is a EURO 280 

There are many members here who own both 6.9's and steel sprung W116's and no doubt they are better qualified to judge than I am, but to put my money where my mouth is so to speak, I have the opportunity to buy here at the moment a very good low mileage 450SEL for US$10,000, but rather than do that I will spend a bit extra and get a 6.9 from Aus.  Why?  Because I believe that there is nothing wrong with the steel sprung W116's and a 450 must be excellent with good power, but I think the 6.9 is just that bit more spectacular and I will pursue it. 

Ryan

[OzBenzHead]

Ryan: With regard to your "front-heavy" SL, you might find this thread on the OZBENZ forum of interest: http://forum.mbspares.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=1539.

I bought, just last week, a 450SE (116) for a ridiculously low price. There is very little wrong with it, it seems - certainly far less than the PO was led to believe.

Unfortunately, she just couldn't afford to keep on running it (she had been out of work for some time and had other commitments), and she was, most unluckily, a customer of a local rip-off shark.

He told her that the self-levelling was stuffed, and quoted her a very scary repair cost (well over $2000) - then offered to give her $400 for the car. As it was only a fortnight from registration renewal and would need the rear end (at least) fixed before it would be roadworthy-passed by her crooked mechanic, the poor thing panicked.

She called me (we were only passing acquaintances, but she was aware of my weakness for Benzes needing homes) and offered me first option on buying it from her.

She reported to me what her muckanic had said about the repairs needed, and although his $400 dollar offer was pathetic, she offered it to me for only $100 more. Sight unseen (I'd only ever seen the car thrice, and never checked it out more than superficially), I agreed to take it off her hands with no further ado - feeling rather guilty, but justifying my acceptance as preferable to the car's sale to the shark - who would, following his known pattern - flog it off to the first sucker he could find, for something like a 500% profit. (Did I mention the fact that he's a shark?)

The woman drove it to my place (45 km) on condition that I'd drive her back home. Did that, and apart from a high-set tail that bounced around a little on fast, rough bends (but hardly lost traction), I couldn't fault the car's drivability.

The next day it went up on my mechanic's shop hoist. Guess what? A couple of loose linkage fixings, a pair of stuffed shockers, and bugger-all else wrong with rear end.

I reckon that a complete set of new suspension bushes, shocks, ball joints and tie-rod ends - and a damned good steam clean - will make it quite a worthy chariot to add to the family.

In a further fit of guilt I called the PO and told her what I'd assessed, and offered her a couple of hundred more (to assuage my conscience). She wouldn't hear of it, so here I am stuck with the bargain of the month. Damn!

Even if it proves to be a lemon, it won't have broken the bank and I can likely get my money back.

Hard to tell until I fix the rear end, but the car doesn't feel particularly front-heavy compared with my 280SE 116.

If it proves to be worth the bother, I'll fix and detail it, and give it to #1 son. Then all I'll have to do is find another for #2!

[oscar]

Just qucikly

OBH, you lucky bugger and although I'd prefer MB-Tex because of its easy maintenance, durability and quality, I have to concur with a comment Styria made to me ages ago in the context that some cars/models demand leather.

[OzBenzHead]

I'm not denying the sensuousness of leather - it's lovely stuff - the feel, the smell - it's just more a practical issue.

As Styria mentions, my coupe wouldn't be the same car if it had M-B Tex trim - although I reckon the Tex looks more like leather than does the leather itself.

Interestingly, no-one has ever commented on the (very good condition) leather in my coupe, but nearly everyone comments favourably on the "leather" (actually Tex) in my other Benzes. How's that for perverse!

And Styria: your comments on the comparative quality of English and German leathers have a certain ring of truth from memory of my English-car days, but the English leather always at least looked like leather, not cheap, shiny plastic that so much Benz leather can look like when it's worn. Original or not, if I was to have any of my Benzes retrimmed in leather, it would be Connoly Hide or nothing.

[michaeld]

S class,
I shall second Styria's motion and say, "Buy the 6.9."  Why?  Because you want it so bad you can taste it.  A 450 would not fill the empty spot in your case.

As for myself, the 450 (certainly at least for the time being) fills the spot.  Before this car, I never even considered MBz - certainly not a classic older car - but after this car, I wouldn't buy anything else UNTIL I considered one.

I did my own brief search on "hydropneumatic suspension" and learned a few things (the first of which that yes, as Styria says, "zero offset" and "anti-dive" are part of the 6.9 lexicon as well):
1) It was developed in France (by Citroen) where the roads are terrible and motor afficienados still wanted to drive fast.  The self-leveling system made a fast, rough drive livable where a standard spring system would have knocked out one's fillings.
2) There are more upsides than downsides to an "air ride."
3) It is much less mechanically complicated than most people believe.

Now, having said those things, I (based on my VERY brief search) am less fearful of that which I do not understand than previously. 
I am personally still leary of the suspension because of one particular downside:
Very few mechanics are willing to work on them.  If I ran into a problem that was beyond my capabilities, I would likely be forced to shell out more than I would be willing to shell out to have the system repaired.  From what I read, the air ride was not any better at pulling "Gs" than springs, but was superior in the "bouncy-bouncy" side (although the frequent feeling of weightlessness in hydropneumatic suspensions had the real potential of making some carsick).  In general, I was impressed by my reading of the 6.9 suspension system. 

From what I have read, the 6.9 is not - at this time - the right car for me because there are a number of higher cost issues (more expensive to buy and maintain).  But for people who have the desire to go fast, and have the $$$ to spend, the 6.9 is clearly the desirable w116.  As I truly love the w116 body/chassis (I frequently find myself staring at mine and thinking how beautiful these cars are), I would seriously consider a 6.9 if I had the cash to burn.

And one of them has your name on it, S class!
Mike

[s class]

leather : in South Africa the decision is simple : W116, R/C107, W126, W140 were ONLY available with leather - no velour or MBtex.  In the 1970's the choice of leather colour was also very limited.  Basically only tan or parchment.  I have seen W116's with olive and navy leather, but those were special requests, as is my black leather.  W123's only came with vinyl seats, and hence in this country there is a status issue - S class and SL's demand leather.

Styria's right.  A top condition 450SEL would be great, but no matter how good it might be, I would always want one step more.  Though some of the prices you list are a little scary. 

Michaeld, It think it makes a big difference what one intends to use the car for.  As I understand it, your 450 is your daily driver.  I successfully and happily (and cost effectively) drove my 280SE as a daily driver for many years.  I would not try to do the same with a 6.9 for three reasons :
a) inflicting wear and deterioration on the car
b) the costs of keeping up with said wear
c) car theft is a very real problem in South Africa

As to a) above, for me that would be a big issue because of the difficulty of getting a 6.9 and the impossibility of ever replacing it.  b) is less of a problem for me that it might be for others because I am confident and happy to do all my own work.
c) is a MAJOR concern in South Africa.  If I were to move heaven and earth ot obtain a 6.9 only to have it disappear would be too terrible.  Already, I ONLY drive my 450SL if it will be parked within my field of view.  So visiting friends with it is OK if it can be parked inside the garden with locked gates.  Stopping for 5 minutes outside a cafe is absolutely no-no. 

I had to use the 280SE for years with the constant possibility of theft, but at least there would be replacement cars available.  To mitigate the risk, my car has a top-end pin-gearlock (that locks the shift linkages in Park), a top end alarm and electronic immobiliser, and a satellite tracking device.  Crazy?  That's what it's like here. 

All my benzes have gearlocks, which seem to be one of the most effective deterrents. 

All my cars have lock-up garages, and all except my daily driver are parked with the gealocks engaged, battery disconnected and preferably distributor rotors removed.  I keep the keys off site and the garages are covered inside with infrared passive motion detectors, montored by an alarm linked to an armed-response company.  The garages are locked, and the property perimeter is protected by electronic gates. 

Actually now that I list all this stuff it sounds crazy that I live like this, but here it's normal and we dont think about it. 

Ryan (in my private fortress)

[Tomi]

Jeesus, cant beleive it. must be a nightmare to own cars that you have put so much into and be  under a constant threat of being stolen.

Well there must be other advantages there.

Over here nothing is locked, I have my garage open all night and whole weekends many times, the cars are unlocked mostly and sometimes the keys are on the door. Nothing happens. All cars, tools, beer etc. are exposed. no gate and no alarm equipment

Well in the city center, radios get stolen and cars too, but these are usually high end modern cars or cars that are not so noticed as toyota's or so.

[michaeld]

Michaeld, It think it makes a big difference what one intends to use the car for.  As I understand it, your 450 is your daily driver.  I successfully and happily (and cost effectively) drove my 280SE as a daily driver for many years.  I would not try to do the same with a 6.9 for three reasons :

We all want our w116s for different reasons, and we all have different "standards" as to how our cars should drive and display.  That's part of the beauty of the world and this forum, I figure.

Take the seats, for instance.  My rear leather is basically shot.  It basically looks okay (though there is one tear), but it is badly dried out and the cushion is gone.  Do I care?  A little bit, but not enough to spend a thousand bucks recovering it.  I threw a blanket over the back seat to protect it from further sun damage, and hope to one day come across a wreck w/ the same bamboo back seat where I can just help myself to the whole shebang.  I get the sense that some of you guys would lie wide awake at night until you put brand new leather and horsehide cushions on the rear seat!

And I'm the same way w/ 6.9s.  Nice, but more than I want to put out on an automobile just now.  But for someone else, it is an absolute must-have.  If I were to get into an argument w/ a 6.9 owner, and I said that 6.9s were unnecessary overkill, and he said that 6.9s were essential for happiness, the one thing passerby would be able to rightly take from the conversation is that they had just walked past a couple of idiots.  It takes all kinds to make up a world; and that's why there are so many choices in cars. 

I was frankly shocked by your description of the theft situation in S. Africa.  I thought Orange County, CA was bad!!!  (I DID have a car stolen there, too!).  In Orange County, the biggest problems are 1) chop shop operations; and 2) the proximity to Mexico, where one can pretty much kiss a car goodbye.

There's a rather fascinating relationship between being "poor people" and being "bad people."  They tend to go together.  In the USA, liberals and conservatives often talk right past each other.  Liberals claim that there are structural deficiencies in the communities - bad schools, lack of employment opportunities, crime, poor policing, fatherless households, etc - which cumulatively result in poverty.  Conservatives tend to look at the personal/individual accountability aspects, and point out the fact that welfare moms are sitting on the couch all day and have slept w/ so many men they have no idea who their childrens' fathers are (just for starters).

The thing is, both liberals and conservatives are right.  To say what causes poverty, structural inadequacies or personal behavior, is a false dichotomy: you won't find poverty/impoverished areas w/out BOTH things being present in abundance.

So I can feel sympathy for the young man who grew up in a broken home and dropped out of school and who never really had a shot at a decent job.  But he - and his parents, and the leaders of his community, etc. etc. nevertheless made a ton of terrible decisions for which they are all blameworthy.

I suppose communities are like countries, in a way: if they get REAL bad (like Iraq or N. Korea) they start to become everybody's problem and an absolute nightmare to either try to deal with or to try to improve.  But like N. Korea, you can't just keep ignoring the "problem," or it will find a way to get to your neck of the woods.

Hope you and your family stay safe, S class.
Mike