Author Topic: My first W116 here at last  (Read 104187 times)

1980sdga

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #30 on: 02 May 2011, 08:25 AM »
Wow that's a sharp interior!  I don't think we poor yanks ever got the hi-zoot seats. The manual AC controls are nice as well!
Jon


Little by little I have grown fond of the infamous Auto Temp II we have in our 116's

pompy

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #31 on: 04 May 2011, 05:57 AM »
Awesome car, Gavin!
Ship it to South Africa - you know we need more 450 SE's here!
1991 500 SE EURO

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #32 on: 07 May 2011, 02:55 AM »
No can do Pompy!  But I do plan to take the 450 to live in Spain when we finish our remedial work on the house, perhaps another year or two, mañana, mañana.  At least she will be living in the sunshine, I only hope that I have the air con running by then.  I really wish I had ready access to a "Ryan" though, I really need to find a "someone helpful" who is London/South East based.

I wanted to do much more cleaning and degreasing of the engine when I went to see the car yesterday, but the storage guys don't really want me working on the premises. Nevertheless, I managed to get a few things done.  I repaired my burned temperature sensor harness (see the post in "Mechanicals" [I don't know how to make a clickable link to the actual post, but at least I can embed pictures now.]) My thanks again to Joe and all the others who contributed to that post.

Temporary repair until I get some heat shield sleeving

I then discovered that I had lost a wheel bolt on the right rear wheel.  I thought that I should get this replaced immediately.  Off I went to the local MB dealer, and tried to get the part.  I was told that my car had steel wheels from the VIN number, which I disputed, saying that it has 5 "aluminium disc wheels with radial-ply tyres" code "640" on my data card.  Going by their information, the guy produced a wheel bolt which I then tried to fit, only its diameter was too small.

My data card, does "640" mean something other than "aluminium disc wheels with radial-ply tyres"?

So back to the office, and the parts man suggested I take off one of the wheel bolts and he would look on the shelves and find a similar part.  Back to the car, opened the boot, looked under the rear carpet.  Found the jack, and then found the red tool bag.  Delved in, but couldn't find the wheel spanner.  The parts man then produced a nice shiny new wheel spanner for me (surprising good price too! [MA221 581 00 01]), and then it was off with one of the bolts.  A little gefuffeling and he came back with a 126 part number [MA126 401 06 07], but alas they had no stock.  I managed to procure 20 of these at our local MB dealership in west London.  I hope they will fit.

My new wheel bolts

I thought that I would replace all the wheel bolts, as they are a black colour at the moment, and this is also in preparation for replacing all the tyres (x5).  I would value any advice on these, I am looking at Falken FK-07U 205/70 R14 H (95), Federal SS-731 205/70 R14 H (95), Federal SS-657 205/70 R14 T (95), Toyo TEO Plus TYTE +A 205/70 R14 H (95), Hankook Optimo K715 205/70 R14 T (98).  I really like the look of the Hankook tread pattern.

When I got home, I started to clean the inside and chrome bits of the ashtray.  The years of tar were soon lifted from the inside chrome trim with a little steelwool and elbow grease, the galvinised tray itself cleaned with dishwash liquid and an old toothbrush.

Years of caked tar and nicotine removed from the internal chrome trim (some of the plating has peeled and reveals a little rust beneath)

This was left to dry, and then the veneer was re-glued.  I used loctite superglue gel (so much easier to use than the ultra-viscous liquid), a few dabs on the old black double sided adhesive that remained on the wood veneer and the metal ashtray, and it's as good as new.

And the wood face now in place

I once again took the car on a longish drive, about twenty miles, and encountered open roads, twisty country lanes and town traffic.  The car performed flawlessly, but then just as I got to within two miles of the storage facility, the fuel starvation/ignition problems reared their head again.  At one point the car stalled totally, I slid her into neutral, restarted the engine, gave it a good dose of the loud pedal, and the problem stopped immediately.  This episode was far less severe than the first episode when I drove the car down from Leeds.   As I didn't get out of the car this time (too much traffic), I could not say if the fuel pump was noisy or not.  

I can only conclude that I have dirt in the fuel tank (as I put another 20lt of fuel into the tank), the radiator hoses may be leaking steam onto the HT leads or dizzy when the car is hot, or the car doesn't really like going to the storage facility ::)!  Any other ideas?

I will be off to see the 450 in about three weeks time, when hopefully she will get "new shoes".  I will post more pictures then.

Keep 116ing

Gavin

P.S. I've enjoyed reading all Raptelan's posts, sorry about the recent damage to the drivers side.
« Last Edit: 09 June 2011, 02:26 PM by gavin116 »

jbrasile

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #33 on: 07 May 2011, 08:22 AM »
Nice to hear things are coming together, it is always very satisfying bringing our cars back to top condition like that.

Regarding the wheel bolts - EPC indicates 108 401 00 70 as the correct p/n but from your picture they look correct, maybe there was a p/n replacement. Funny because I bought a set 2 months ago for a client and they came with the old p/n

As for you sudden loss  of power/miss problem. Check if the fuel distributor filter is not clogged. Same thing happened to me while driving my client's 77 6.9 after restoration, it was running fine then all of a sudden lost power and would only idle, if you stepped on the gas it would not move, revs would not go up at all and it would simply die. Replaced fuel distributor screen, and all back to normal.

P/n is 000 074 60 86 - looking at the fuel distributor it is the first fitting from left to right

Item 50 on the image below



Tks,

Joe

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #34 on: 08 May 2011, 12:22 PM »
Hi Adam

Thanks for looking in the car for a similar connector.  I thought it was going to be a long shot.  I tried the twin connectors from the brake fluid reservoir, but it had slightly different spacing.  There is a strange round black item with a red electrical shock hazard sticker in the top left of my engine bay, it seems to have a connector the right shape, I will try this next time I'm down with the car.  Perhaps I can get one of those.

On another front, how is the 6.9 going.  Have they yet started to spray the car?  I think I can speak for all of us UK guys, that we can't wait for the next instalment of photos.

And Joe

Thanks for the part number.  I am not sure what to do about this filter.  Shall I run the car till it's nearly dry, and get the fuel tank "washed", then renew the the fuel filter and  any perished hoses etc.  Then get the car up and running, (do I also need the injectors "serviced") and finally replace the filter in the fuel distributor?  I would appreciate your views on this.

Thanks

Gavin
« Last Edit: 08 May 2011, 12:28 PM by gavin116 »

jbrasile

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #35 on: 08 May 2011, 01:47 PM »
Gavin,

If the car sat for a very long time, say more than 2-3 years it is possible the gas tank is rusted, then you would need to  have it professionally cleaned. Or at least if it did stay parked for over 1 year  you should  have  drained the old gas before putting new one in.

Without doing anything more drastic, try just cleaning or better yet, replacing the fuel distributor filter to see if things go back to normal, it is a very inexpensive part and it wont hurt anything. The issue may disappear permanently and then you don't have to worry about removing the tank, etc...

One way to check the condition of your tank is to either have it inspected with a boroscope, or just drain some fuel from the fuel line before the filter to see if any sediment comes out, both tasks I would leave to a professional.

Since the car ran fine before I doubt you have any injector problems. If you do need to service them, just replace all 8 with their seals, K-jet injectors are not expensive and realistically they were not meant to be cleaned.



Tks,

Joe

calvin streeting

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #36 on: 08 May 2011, 02:10 PM »
I had a rusty tank, 1-2 inches deep in rust. i removed the tank and drained it and then used por15 tank paint/prep, seach the forum. But be aware it took over 9 days to complete.

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #37 on: 11 May 2011, 12:06 AM »
Ah, Adam

I was looking through some technical diagrams, and run across the connector in two other locations.  It uses the same connector at the windscreen washer pump, and also under the driver's side kick panel/knee roll on the brake light switch.  

Perhaps you can have a look in the parts car.  Can you also tell me how to remove the knee rolls (on a RHD car) on both the driver's and passenger's sides?  I think I need to look at my indicator relay, indicators work fine, but I have no noise signal (tick, tock, tick...) when they are engaged.  I presume the noise is generated by the relay? I also want to pull my cruise control amplifier and try my luck at re-soldering it and changing any suspect caps. (Adam you can message me for contact details.)

Joe

Thanks for the advice, I shall order the FD filter today in preparation for next week.  Does the filter need anything special applying to its threads before screwing it back into the FD?  Also, is it just tightened hand tight, or is there a specific torque setting? Could you post a slight more clear detailed drawing of the exploded view on the computer screen?  Your technical expertise is always reassuring.

And lastly Calvin

Good shout.  If I am still having fuel trouble, i.e. check the quality of the fuel in the tank, I'll heed your advice and get someone professional to wash the tank.  

I am also ordering my new Hankook tyres today, by the end of next week, I hope to be a little further down the line. I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go, I owe, I owe...

Regards

Gavin

jbrasile

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #38 on: 11 May 2011, 05:27 AM »
Hi Gavin,

See if this is better, I have zoomed into the image a little more, the items you need are:

50 - 000 074 60 86 - filter
53 - 007603 012110 - copper ring - get it just to be safe



You don't need to cover the threads with sealing or locking compound, just make sure the part goes in square and start with your hands. You my also have to remove a couple of the top FD tubes to have better access with the spanners, they are 12mm. Spray some WD 40 when re-installing those, it helps making them go back easier, again start with your fingers and then tighten with the 12mm spanner.

No exact torque as far as I know, just get it tight and reconnect to fuel tube. The correct way to do this is once the new filter is installed, you hold it with a 17mm spanner and tighten the fuel tube with another, this is to avoid over tightening and striping any threads.

Remember to use lots of rags to collect spilled fuel and work in a well ventilated environment.

The car will take a little while to start afterwards due to lack of fuel pressure but once you get it going all should be back to normal.

Have fun!

Tks,

Joe
« Last Edit: 11 May 2011, 05:32 AM by jbrasile »

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #39 on: 11 May 2011, 11:25 PM »
Joe

Thanks for the advice and parts numbers.  My FD filter is on order from Germany, as is the plug for the back of the rev-counter.  All in very cheap, less than £10.  I then thought that I may start getting some of the fuel injectors so long in preparation for a change over once the fuel in the tank has been inspected for debris. So I got half the fuel injectors and the other half are on order.  They gave me part number MA116 078 08 73 Guide, and MA000 078 56 23 Injector nozzle. Those I can tell you they are not cheap, just shy of £50 per unit all in, and with a multiplication factor of 8... I'm glad then that I don't have the expensive D-Jets!

I would also like to replace the fuel pump, and the hoses especially those that connect the tank to the fuel filter, and the fuel filter to the ... and so on.  What other rubber hose componentry is in the fuel system right up to the injectors?   Perhaps you can advise some more part numbers.

I will also find out next week a bit more about having my radiator rodded.  In preparation for this task, I would like to pick your brain again, part numbers for the replacement of all the rubber hoses (radiator and expansion tank), a clip that is broken that holds the expansion hose onto the front bulkhead (black plastic) and also the correct temperature thermostat and seal.

Once that task is done, then I will have to look into two new seat belts for the front, which must be done by November to get my roadworthy test passed.  I will start a new threat when I am ready, Rome as they say, "wasn't built in a day".

I was lucky enough yesterday to encounter a Parts Man that knew 116's, but sadly this isn't always the case, and your infinite knowledge of parts numbers does help speed things along.

Thanks

Gavin

P.S. Also ordered a TPMS (tyresure) to put in the Bundts when I get the new tyres next Friday.  My first piece of new tech in the Benz (new tech, because it was ladened with tech in 1972 compared with other makes of cars.)
« Last Edit: 11 May 2011, 11:29 PM by gavin116 »

jbrasile

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #40 on: 12 May 2011, 06:26 AM »
Hi Gavin,

Always a pleasure to help!

Let's see:

Injectors and seals -

Too bad you got half the injectors already.... we could supply Bosch at US$29.70ea or in the MB box for US$50.40ea + shipping, I think they would turn out to be a lot less than GB50.00ea. The seals are $1.60 ea made by Bruss (OEM) or $2.43 from MB, anyway if you have already ordered and paid that's ok.

Fuel pump/hoses

002 091 97 01 - fuel pump - $158.95 made by Bosch (OEM) or $221.40 from MB
123 470 20 75 - hose fuel filter to feed line - $18.90 original MB
123 470 22 75 - hose accumulator to damper cage and valve - will advise price
123 476 30 26 - hose damper to pump - $41.40 original MB
123 470 08 75 - hose tank to damper - $13.05 original MB

These fuel hose installations are always a little tricky because of all the differences according to VIN so I am not 100% if this is correct but  your car should be setup as per the image below



Let me know if you wish to order anything. MB original parts drop ship from the MB Classic Center in Irvine California directly to you via Fedex, OEM items we send from our Torrance CA warehouse also by Fedex.

My direct e-mails are: info@mbclassic.net or joe@mbklassik.net

Tks,

Joe



« Last Edit: 12 May 2011, 08:09 AM by jbrasile »

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #41 on: 18 May 2011, 11:32 PM »
Hello to all

This weekend past we went to Germany on a road trip in the SL.  It was a really nice drive, taking in the UK, the Euro Tunnel, France, Belgium, The Netherlands and finally Germany.  Sadly we didn't encounter any of the Autobahn's unlimited speed sections, it was mostly 130kph.

What we did see were a few W123's and also one W116.  Naturally we just had to take some photos, I think it was a 280, but cannot be sure.

Black 116, front view

Black 116, rear view

Black 116, side view with our SL in the background

I will be seeing Mrs White tomorrow, and will do a separate post about the new tyres.  Will be nice to finally have the fuse box service completed now that I have the "red" ceramic fuses, and also to re-install the refurbished ashtray.

I also plan to install the new FD filter thanks to Joe's technical help.

Regards

Gavin
« Last Edit: 09 June 2011, 02:27 PM by gavin116 »

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #42 on: 20 May 2011, 06:13 PM »
Hi all,

Today felt like a day of just about no forward motion.  I went down to see Mrs White with the aim of achieving several goals.  I thought that I would first and foremost check the oil, as I drove the car down from Leeds, and have done a few local small trips, and haven't checked the oil.  I was reminded by this fact by Arman when I read his post about his weekend trip.  I totally forgot how older cars can drink oil, I have been fortunate enough since my student days to only drive new or almost new cars.  Oh the memories: striped spider gears, snapped cam belts, continually adjusting the timing....  Well, I was in for a shocker.  Whoever serviced the car last appeared to overfill the sump, as it registers about 5mm above the high mark!  (I checked it three times just to be sure.)  I suppose, what is done is done.

Whilst under the bonnet (or for those across the pond - hood) I cut off my temporary fixed temperature sender wire and plug.  I bought the new metal part that is in the centre of the plug.  I was right to pursue this matter as the the wire was literally held in place by one strand.  I managed to get the plug open, as it is a three component item (two plastic pieces and a metal lug), and took a closer look at the metal lug.  

View under the bonnet, also showing the new battery, and the very clean dishwashed windscreen washer bottle

More disappointment.  Here I was thinking that I would use my crimping tool, only to discover that the wire is soldered in place.  As the fellow at the storage facility doesn't want people working on their cars on his premises, I had to think on my feet.  I stripped the insulation a fair deal off the pigtail, slipped over a piece of heatshrink, wrapped the wire around the sender unit, slipped the heatshrink over that, and heated it. The temperature clung on the halfway mark like never before.  It will be interesting to see what it does in traffic.

I thought that I would then go and get my new tyres done.  As I wanted to plug in the TomTom's power adaptor, I realised that I had to replace the ashtray.  I slipped this into its cradle, and now my dash is transformed to it's former glory!

The ashtray finally in place, the dash looking handsome

I plugged in the TomTom, dialed in the post code (really fantastic post codes in the UK, the code itself locates you to within four or five houses on a specific street) got the map up.  Ah, music missing, reached for the radio knob, only to find the radio as dead as a dodo.  Expletive!, you know the one I mean.  Nevertheless, I headed off to get my new tyres fitted.

The garage was a really well run family business, I was quite surprised by the young proprietor who gave his dad instruction to fit they tyres to my car.  Dad was obviously around when Mick Jagger was all the rage - and I suspect 450's were too!, sporting shoulder length hair and a rather aloof attitude.  The 450 sure made him smile when he cranked the engine.

This joy was short lived, as I discovered my tyres that were bought on-line were actually two and a half years old!  I was not happy with this situation, but was forced to accept them, as time was of the essence, and I would only be returning to see Mrs White in four to six weeks time.  (The seller is online, the garage is just the installer).

Tyre dates way out of new range (that looks remarkably like old tyre valves....  Lets hope they have replaced the rubber components inside.)

Further disappointment was to follow with the tyre pressure monitoring system.  When the first tyre came off, the installer found that the Bundt's have an odd inner profile near the valve seat, and they were not happy to fit the new valves as they deemed it likely that they would indeed leak, leaving me with four flats!  Very sadly I had to put the new tech under my arm, walk away and accept the situation. :'( The tyre installers were very impressed with my Bundts, as they hardly needed any balancing whatsoever.  The steering was perfect on the way home, however I wasn't able to take the car up to cruising speed.  The Hancooks have made a nice difference to the car's handling, and the new wheel bolts look a treat.

Unable to fit the TPMS

On the bright side, although my car didn't come with a wheel spanner (you will remember that I acquired one when I tried to buy the wheel bolts at the MB dealer close to the car storage facility) it did come with this paper.  Treasure found not only in the glove box, but the spare wheel well too.  [I can just see the mad dash now as the all the forum members hit the garage to look in the boot.]

The warning notice

Even though I wasn't able to change the FD filter, today the 450 purred like a pussy cat, none of the miss-firing/fuel starvation issues.  I will still replace this filter, but I suspect that my fuel pump is overheating on longer journeys causing my problems.... Joe....

I also managed to replace the last of the red fuses (16Amp).  This time I used an artery forceps from work.  It worked really well to release and install the fuses.  However I did manage to drop one of the old fuses into the bottom of the fuse box.  I then proceeded to push it into never-never-land.  After racking my brains, I used a cable tie to scoop it from the slightly down hill profile in the box, and managed to grip it with the artery forceps.  At the same time I checked for any blown fuses, but they were all intact.

I removed the radio, but didn't see any in-line fuses there.  As I had to do this in a hurry when I returned from my tyre episode to the storage facility, and I was scared of scratching my zebrano with the sharp edges of the radio, I merely replaced it into the radio slot.  I will put a multimeter on the hot wire when I get the car home next visit.  Hopefully I can restore sound to the car.

Lastly, I placed some rubber bungs in the three holes behind the rear bumper.

Rubber bungs


As I have been unable to do any further real work on the car, I plan to spring Mrs White one Thursday evening, and return her on a Sunday afternoon.  I want to do the following: clean the engine bay, finally sort the temperature sender wire, replace the wipers on the headlights (I'll need to get a tip from someone, as I can see that they are going to be very tricky and fiddly to replace especially with the bumpers in position).  I also want to swap over the metric temperature and oil pressure gauges, and get the rev counter wired up.  At the same time I will replace all the bulbs in the instrument binnacle.  I want to retrieve the cruise control amplifier and see if I can repair it.


Help will be needed with the rev counter installation.  I need to know where I take the pick-up from.  Also were is the best portal in a RHD car to feed the wire into the cabin.  Has anyone done a picture guide on how to remove the driver's and passenger's knee rolls?  I recently saw a picture on the forum of a knee roll, but I am still a little in the dark, as it only showed the upper leading edge.

Do I use the positive or the negative terminal on the coil (pictured here with the suppression cap/guard removed)?

Or do I get the pick-up from the left or right terminal here?


Till later,

Gavin

« Last Edit: 09 June 2011, 02:30 PM by gavin116 »

jbrasile

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #43 on: 21 May 2011, 04:53 PM »
Gavin,

Wow, nice engine compartment!

Fuel pumps as far as I know do not overheat or cause an engine miss from overhating, they either work or they don't. An old coil however may heat up after a while and cause problems, if my thinking is wrong, pls someone correct me, I had that happen to my old 280S and a new coil solved everything. Change the FD filter anyway and see if all stays well permanently.

As for the radio, the fuse is the  inline one in the fuse box, the wire is red/green if I am not mistaken.

Connect the + for the tach to the - terminal of the coil or to the screw on the fender connector that has one of the wires from the - side of the coil connected to it. The other wire you should connect to the fuse in the fuse box that powers the tach, check your fuse chart and you'll find the correct one, you should be able to actually screw it at the base of the fuse. I did a tach upgrade on my old 74 280S and ran the wires thru the grommet used for the vacuum tubes, I just made a small hole and pushed the harness inside the car.

To remove the knee carpet pieces (knee rolls), unscrew the 4 phillips screws and simply pull the panels carefully, they are held in place by two pressure buttons besides the screws. Also be careful when you pull so you don't damage the door ducts since  the edge of the knee panels go behind the rubber edges on the duct.

Tks,

Joe





« Last Edit: 21 May 2011, 04:56 PM by jbrasile »

gavin116

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Re: My first W116 here at last
« Reply #44 on: 22 May 2011, 02:09 AM »
Joe to the rescue again.

I get so restless thinking of all these jobs that await me!  I would really like to be able to be out there attending to them.  Such a pity the Victorians never had motorcars and hence the need to design houses with garages.  Well in response to your help I have some pictures to show you what I have done in preparation for the rev counter, and also the temperature sender wiring and plug.

I applied a little heatshrink to a piggyback terminal to prevent any electrical shorting for my +ve supply to the rev counter.  I will a run wire as described in Oscar's? post to get the + from the clock to the rev counter.  Am I correct so far?

I applied a little heatshrink to a piggyback terminal to prevent any electrical shorting for my +ve supply to the rev counter

Some of the rest of the wiring for the rev counter.  I chose a blue/orange cable for this purpose.  Once I pull the cable through, I will sheath it in a insulation sheath, and I will again heatshrink and crimp a terminal with an eye to  attach the pick-up for the rev counter.  Now, if I have paid attention I am supposed to take my pick up from, "the - terminal of the coil or to the screw on the fender connector that has one of the wires from the - side of the coil connected to it".  This will ultimately terminate in the plug, and will be the wire on the top of the rev counter marked "D".  The bottom pin is marked "+" which has the piggybacked orange wire.  Is this right?  What is the implication of having a constant +ve to the rev counter, or should I stop being lazy and run the positive from the fuse box as you suggest so that it is switched (i.e. terminal number 4)?

This is my wiring harness so far.  I am still waiting on the other plastic tab for the two pin housing (comming from MB Germany)

And the mock up so far of the donor rev counter with the wiring in place, but sans the plastic plug

The next picture is that of the long suffering temperature sender wiring loom, newly refurbed: cleaned, new terminal, solder and heatshrink, with the protection sleeve in the background too.

Going back to the radio, I am not sure where this in-line fuse is, unless it is tucked away beneath the actual fuses.  I have since finished the fusebox service, all the fuses are now replaced, and gone is the residue from the spare fuse holder too, I just neglected to take an after picture.  So, Joe I will pass any wiring in through the vacuum grommet to the rear of the fuse box (i.e. the pick up from the coil and if I am not too lazy the pick up of the +ve from fuse number 4).

It makes sense to replace the coil.  I know I need to buy a Bosch Blue, is there a specific code number for this coil.  Next month, I make take you up on your offer and get the rest of the parts for my fuel system (the hoses and a new fuel pump).

Thanks again for the omnipresent help, so wish you were UK based though...

Regards

Gavin

A look at my almost finished fuse box service.  

« Last Edit: 09 June 2011, 02:31 PM by gavin116 »