My first W116 here at last

[Tony66_au]

Love your work Gavin, Thanks for sharing!

Tony

[gavin116]

Just fetched the Benz back from having some repair works doing

Just fetched the Benz back from having some repair works doing. 

So, the job at hand was to drop the sunroof tray and do some rust repairs. I was becoming more and more aware that there was something untoward, as I was getting a wet bum every time I drove the car when it was stood in the rain.  Indeed I could see water tracking along the hood lining, dripping onto the driver's seat.

In late April, a phone call to John Haynes ascertained what the job entailed and the likely parts needed.  The car was booked in for the end of June, and soon it became time to drop her off.

I bought a new front sunroof seal, I still had the new rear from a while back.  Added to this I bought new front and rear screen rubbers as the front screen had to be removed to remove the sunroof tray with ease and to reduce the possibility of damage to the interior parts of the vehicle.

When I dropped the car off, we took a walk round, in addition to moving the electric aerial from the right side rear flank to the left rear flank that we had agreed on doing earlier, there were a few other items they picked up on.  This included sticking down the boot (trunk) seal, and also looking at the steering box, as I have always had to continually correct the steering due to play in the system.

Some other issues were discussed including the rough idle, the fact that someone had a go at the warm-up regulator already, driving the unit down with a punch to try improve the running.  I opted to leave this for the time being, my most urgent issue was to get the car watertight again.

I will take up the issue or rebuilding or replacing both the auxiliary air value and the warm-up regulator at the same time to see if I can get the car to idle smoothly and not to run at such high RPM when stationary.  If I lower the idle speed with the nylon screw to 650, then she shakes violently, so I have to have the idle speed about 850/900 RPM, which equates to about 1200 when cold: dangerous when trying to maneuver the car out of a parking space.  These RPM'S even higher when she is in 'P' or 'N'!

Back to the topic...

Out with the front windscreen to make matters easier for the removal of the sunroof.  The body-shop cut the window gasket informing me they usually do it this way as a matter of course to prevent placing undue strain on the screen. 

This suited me fine as not only did I have a small chip on my windscreen, but I had already decided to change the 33 year old seal as a matter of course.  And well it worked too!  The screen remained intact, the chrome surround was inserted prior to placement, and everything married well upon installation.

The front screen out

The sunroof tray removed

Upon removal rust was found to be present on both the front drainage channels.  In addition, the sunroof drain on the front right side had perished and split.

Rust on the RHS sunroof drainage channel

Rust on the LHS sunroof drainage channel

The rust was removed and newly fabricated repair pieces welded in place.  These were then smoothed and painted.

Sunroof tray repairs

The sunroof was then repatriated with the car, including replacing the sunroof drains that cost me an arm and a leg...  A new head lining was installed at the same time.  All-in-all a pleasing result.  The wind deflector now pops up as it should.  The sunroof has also been adjusted to sit nice and level.

New head lining

And then there was the nasty: Ye old leak test.  On with the hosepipe, and the sunroof (prior to installing the new head lining) was dry as a bone, the front window gasket good too, but sadly water ingress into the cabin on the left.  This came as both a surprise and a shock.

Nevertheless, the extent of the rust was not too large, but it had caused water to pool in the left front passenger foot well.  I am not sure how they removed the foam pad, as you can see it is very neatly done (and neatly replaced too! after drying out).  The footwell thankfully has no major rust, there was a little surface rust, but the majority of the rust seen in the picture is from removal of the rust in the upper bulkhead section dropping into the car.

The rust and water issues on the internal left front bulkhead

The area was cut out and cleaned.  A new piece of sheet metal fabricated and welded into place.  Some sealer applied, it was etched and primed, whereafter it was painted.

Finished repair on the inside left bulkhead

The upper bulkhead section in the wheel well also received a new under seal although not shown here, it has been painted in body colour too.

The upper bulkhead section in the wheel well

Alas, the aerial relocation was also not to go smooth.  The old hole was sealed etc. and painted, a new hole was drilled in the opposite left rear flank.  The aerial was mounted and connected up using the correct 4 pin Mercedes Benz plug, and it functioned well.  Then, Ye old leak test...

Again water ingress was found in the boot, but lucky this time it was from the left tail light cluster.  This was removed, and it was reseated using a sealing compound, and reinstalled.  No more leaks!  I will have them replace the right side, as I found it nearly impossible to marry the frame to the seal to the lens.  That is why I didn't even try do the replacement seal on the right.

The trip back up to storage went smoothly, the steering is wonderful now, I don't have to constantly correct the direction.  Nice to have the use of the sunroof, now if only the air-con...

So, what next? 

I shall see, but I think I will probably try pulling the left front door card, dismantle it, and replace the sponge wadding to make the material less saggy.  I also want to do an internal door service, but I need some guidance.  I want to clean and lubricate things like the window channels, window winder regulator, the door-check straps, and what ever else you feel needs doing at this time.  I will also cut a thick gauge plastic sheet to seal the door cavity before I replace the door card as I know this is missing.  As I have new door lock vacuum diaphragms, I will replace these at the same time.

I have to repeat the process another three times I guess, including replacing the internal window wipes that I have not got round to doing on the other doors.

Oh, and perhaps a visit to Amsterdam in Mrs White before the close of summer.

Keep 116ing

Gavin

[pompy]

Great stuff, Gavin!!!

[oversize]

Well done!!  That rust is a bugger and whenever I do panel repairs in the future I will try to treat the rear of the repair as well as the outside.  It may mean drilling an access hole, but if it keeps a lid on the rust and stops it coming back and spreading, it'd be worth it!  I'd then put a rubber plug in the access hole and the job's done...

[Tony66_au]

Yup, Always do both sides and add a grommet or body plug n shutz over top.

Im not a fan of fish oil because it stinks for months but there are plenty of options for this stuff and if serious find a Wurth Rep and hassle him for an account or check out the POR 15 products.

[Squiggle Dog]

The shop did a good job of repairing the sunroof tray and blending the repaired bulkhead. My sunroof tray was starting to get rusty, but finding a rust-free one shouldn't be difficult in the dry southwest.

[littlefin]

Hi Gavin

Good to see Mrs White getting the treatment she deserves - I'm looking forward to seeing those repairs up close!
Also glad to hear you had a good experience with the Haynes': I told you they know their stuff!

Had any more thoughts about the next UK get together by the way?

Phil

[Mforcer]

That is great. Thanks for sharing.

[gavin116]

Trip to Amsterdam

Hi All

It was time again to un-coup the ol' girl and head off into the sunset.  So that's what we did this last Friday, we had an early morning drive down to Folkstone, got on board the EuroTunnel, and soon we were in France.  Time for an Italian tune-up, and doing the minimum speed of 130km/h , the car settled into a nice rhythm.  All too abruptly, we found ourselves in Belgium, and the pace slowed to 120 and less at times.  We stopped off in Gent for lunch, mussels and fries of course!  Then it was time to tackle the Antwerp ring road... car park. 

That out of the way, and we were now in The Netherlands, slowing to a crawl: 100km/h, perhaps something to do with fuel conservation seeing as though premium unleaded cost a whopping €1,91!  At last we found ourselves in the city centre, but closed roads and poor diversion markings made me grateful that I had the trusty Becker SatNav on hand.  We reached our Art Deco hotel (a former shipping headquarters) that would be home for a few days.

Amsterdam calling

Our Art Deco sitting room

View from our hotel rooftop

Amsterdam was great, there was a fair amount to see: the Rijksmuseum with it's Rembrandts, Anne Frank's House, a cheese (and wine) tasting, fine dining and of course the Red Light District, and a whole lot besides.

We spotted a few rusty 126's on our various city walks (bad, bad wheel arches and front wings near the indicators), including a few 123's but no 116's or it's ubiquitous sister the R107.  There was however a very interesting yellow 123-300D that had a 'Te Koop' (for sale) sign on the back window.  As we approached the car to take a look and some photos, two young dollies hopped in, and then drove away.  I was sorry that I couldn't have a more detailed look as I noticed it had a column shift when the lady driver was maneuvering the car out of the parking bay.  I thought the 116's were the last to feature this anomaly, but apparently not!

Yet another milestone

Mrs. White seemed to enjoy the journey, we passed yet another mileage landmark (see above), in total we done roughly 800 miles, the more miles we done, the better the car performed.  It also gave really good MPG's:
207.5 miles to 62.45 litres = 5.35 km/l or 15.1 mpg or 12.57 mpg US,
273.9 miles to 61.94 litres = 7.17 km/l or 20.1 mpg or 16.73 mpg US
302.2 miles to 64.73 litres = 7.51 km/l or 21.2 mpg or 17.67 mpg US
[Tank filled to automatic stop at each re-fuel.  I didn't want to chance running out of petrol, and my reserve light doesn't work either.]

My cruise control is really playing up now, it will not hold any speed, and engaging either resume or accelerate just engages the throttle non-stop, the car accelerating out of control with no seeming end - DANGEROUS.  This needs to get attention soon.  Does anyone know if there is a 'plug-and-play' modern electronic amplifier available?

The sunroof was as dry as a bone, but I have to admit I did not check the firewall repair for leakage, although the carpets were perfectly dry.  I shall do a water leak test next time I use the car.  I still need to put my new bumper over-rider on the left rear.  At the same time I have bought a W123 (right hand drive) left hand side electric mirror.  I will at some stage pull the mirror apart and see if I can swap the electrics over into my left hand side mirror.  It would be really nice to adjust this easily when driving by oneself.  I will have a custom fascia made to fit in the oddments tray that will be veneered with Zebrano and can house the mirror switch.  I may include a cup holder and additional cigarette lighter/power point in the design too.  Time will tell: I wanted to change so many things, but as time goes by, I am loving the car's originality more and more, wanting to change less and less!

Speaking of change, I still have my lumpy idle issues, also what feels like a high idle speed, despite the rev counter indicating 750 rpm in 'D' or 1100 rpm in 'P' or 'N' when warm.  Is this right?  I was thinking I need to change the WUR (warm-up regulator p/n: 438 140 036) (its been mauled, as along the line someone had "hammer the pin down") and the AAV (auxiliary air valve ) to get it smoother, and/or is this caused by something else?

Once the idle issues are sorted, the next major works are the air conditioner and the (dangerous) cruise control and lastly bodywork and paint.  In the meanwhile I need to service my doors, hopefully I'll still be able to do at least the left hand side front passenger door in the next few weeks.  It'll then be time to over-winter, and next spring I'll be able to finish the other 3 doors, as well as send her for a full service, hopefully with a new WUR and AAV and much smoother idling.

Oh boy, what a surprise when I returned Mrs. White to storage: now I know she's keeping good company!  Looks like it could also be 737 Classic White, but it had a blue Pullman velours interior.  Don't they look the pair?

Mrs W and the 600

Keep 116ing

Gavin

[adamb]

Nice write-up, Gavin. I really like Holland. Good place to have a family or an occasional party.

That 600 looks like the Beatles' 600 though it clearly isn't being LHD.

My cruise never worked so can't help with that. Should you wish to do some FI diagnosis you can borrow my test kit. It's  a complete multi system kit which also covers K-jet. I used it to fix the hot starting issue some time in the past. Your engine should be idling ~800rpm in P/N once warmed up.

What are your plans for the aircon. Mine is still R12 and continues to work great. I've not touched it in 11 years of ownership and I doubt it was worked on in the previous 10 years. What build quality!

[gavin116]

Hi Adam

Yea, it was great going to Amsterdam, and that's another of the reasons for buying the car.  I hope to use her for many short trips to the Continent.  I think it'll be Riems or Dusseldorf next. 

I know I will have to get a new WUR before I start anything on the idle speed, as I have been informed the current WUR is damaged beyond repair due to the previous manhandling.  I need to establish that 0438 140 036 is indeed the correct part for my car.  I think the AAV can be re-built.  Then using your pressure tester, a jug, a stopwatch, the workshop manual and perhaps a little advice from S-Class I can do some fault finding.  Althernatively I could just let John Haynes take care of it.

I did speak to Mr Haynes when I took the car in for its sunroof repair about the air-con.  When the SECman had it re-gassed, it worked well for a few days, then all went belly up.  I should imagine that I need the system re-gassed with a marker that can be used to detect where the leak is coming from, engine bay area if the gods are smiling on me, in the centre console if I'm unlucky!  I know I will need at least one new dryer and possibly a new expansion valve.  It would appear that R12 or a substitute is still available, so I shall keep my system as close to the original as possible.

I don't however feel the same about the cruise control.  It would be nice if we could buy a new amplifier that fit in our old boxes which could attend to all the parameters needed using modern and reliable electronics.  I cannot spend any more on my current amplifier, indeed I do not think Tony Leach would advise it either.  I will drop him an email and see what he says, another reconditioned amp or perhaps an old amp box with new electronic innards?  The other route is of course new old stock from MB, but will they still have a unit, and will the varnish not have cracked by now?

It was the first time that I have seen a 600 in the flesh, whenever I go to the storage facility, I always see its silhouette under the car cover.  I was always intrigued to see if she was pristine or if she had been let to go to seed.  And boy is she pristine.  The interior looked brand new, the seats, wood, carpets etcetera.  She must wear 'proper' chrome, as it had a depth to it that simply outshone our 116's.  I think this must have been a short wheel base car, as it is was only a little longer than Mrs W, though I couldn't say for sure.  The 600 is in large font too, no mistaking this beauty.

Speaking of which there are at least 2 other 116's in storage too, both for sale if the correct offer come round.  One is a 280S auto in I think Topaz Brown and parchment with under 100K, but I did see it had a cracked brown dash.  The other is a 450SEL 6.9, again I think Milan Brown Metallic with parchment velours (driver's seat in poor condition) with walnut wood, and also less than 100K, some visible rust.  If there is any interest, I could always ask at the facility to do a 'photo shoot' of the cars and copy some of their paperwork/history and the type of offer the owners are expecting.

They did have this stunning 126 come up for sale the beginning of this year, and I was sorely tempted (delivery miles only!), but the povo spec got me doubting, and I had serious reservation about the sewing machine engine in such a big heavy car.  Now if only it were larger engined or a 116

[Click to enlarge]

[adamb]

Hi Gavin,

I believe that application of R12 is against the law in the UK. People in classic car restoration business are likely to know for sure. A while ago I investigated the options and it seems that an R12 substitute (CFC free) exists and is meant to be a like-for-like replacement. R134 is not the way without a complete reseal.

I really like the swb 600 and would love to own one but need to get rich enough to afford a driver first My dream remains to own the 300SL gullwing or roadster. Financially it is currently a choice between house or car. I know some people would say car but doubt that Trouble will agree with that notion...

FYI my 450SEL parts car has donated its FI parts to my reserve collection. So I may be able to find out what the part number on the WUR was on that model. Likely to be the same as yours. Allegedly the car ran absolutely fine. Isn't that typically the case with these old Benzs?

The 280SE looks delicious but it's almost too perfect and would be a true shame to use on anything but the finest days of the year. There's a charm to poverty spec cars of the era though I'd never choose an S over an SE.

Regards,
Adam

[mirafioriman]

My father had a W126 500 SE with R12 air con. The local Mercedes dealer said it would cost 000's to covnvert to R134a (I just don't think they knew how to or wanted to do the job)

We ended up getting it done in the Mercedes dealer in Lindau in southern Germany. It cost about £300 at the time and the air con worked perfectly for the further two or three years he had the car until he sold it.

I'm sure there are some detail differences between the W116 and W126 air con systems but as they originally used the same gas (R12) they must be pretty similar.

As for seals we did have a leak on the pump outlet on the W126 when we bought it. A local air con man lent us a box of seals of various sizes and we did that job ourselves. The seals were just a box of round o ring seals and didn't seem air con specific parts.

[pompy]

Nice! Epic trip, Gavin - I'm sure you enjoyed it. And what a treat it must've been in the 450.
As for your idling/running issues, I'm sure you're on the right track - get in touch with s class.
He got my 450 to run as smooth as my 500 SE - it IS possible, and needless to say, very satisfying.
You may be surprised by the increase in performance once all is sorted.

I love that W126.

Can you gather some more info on the 6.9, please? That's my kinda car and colour-combo!

[jbrasile]

Hi Gavin,

What a nice trip! And your fuel mileage was pretty good too...

1) Cruise control

With a good working amp, no vacuum leaks and a properly adjusted cable, these old systems are as good as any modern set up, I know that because my 1980 450SEL's works absolutely perfect. My suggestion is to buy a rebuild amp from a reputable supplier, make sure your actuator does not leak and that your cable is positioned correctly. The only other component that may give trouble is the speedometer transducer but I have never seen one go bad. If you are really unlucky the cc lever itself might act up but that is extremely rare

2) A/c

If you can still get R-12 in the UK do not convert. Your leak is most likely at the compressor from lack of use. It is more economical to just buy a new one. Alma Products is the current licensed manufacturer of Frigidaire's A6, they sell the unit under the name APCOIR. I can supply you a brand new one for US$750.00 + shipping. Once you are sure all hoses are leak free, the only other component that would need to be replaced is the receiver drier. If you must convert to R-134, the procedure is basically the same. Some people suggest changing all the hoses but my tech here in Brazil who has done dozens of conversions only replaces the rec/drier and he either rebuilds or replaces the compressor. Most of the cars we have done have the original expansion valves but it is probably a good idea to replace it with one calibrated for R134.

3) WUR and AAV

Unless someone destroyed your WUR (which is pretty hard to do...)  it can most likely be rebuild, I have done a couple of them myself and given your mechanical abilities I am sure you can handle the project without any problems! Same goes for the AAV, here the only part that is too pleasant is that you have to drill a hole on top of the AAV to pull the inner liner out of the housing, I am about to do my second one and will try to take some step by step pictures of the process, all you do is basically clean it and re-assemble.

Just to confirm: idle should be 750rpm +- 50 in P or N with the engine warm.

The correct WUR for your car should be an 056 according to Bosch.

Tks,

Joe