Author Topic: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2  (Read 25960 times)

raueda1

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #90 on: 13 July 2018, 10:04 AM »
This job is very, very impressive.  Hopefully you're approaching the end soon and will be able to enjoy it.

In the meantime...   I never thought about cabin recirculation till you mentioned it here.  You mention above that the manual system only recirculates 80%.  Do you know what the lever positions are to get 80% or is it fixed somehow?  I can't seem to get my hands on a euro car manual and even web searching on lever position reflects a lot of confusion out there.  The following is the best summary I've seen:

Both air flow lever up -  max defrost
LH down RH up - Max air from dash vents - no defrost
Both down - Dash and floor no defrost
LH up RH down - dash, defrost and floor

Hope I got this right.... Tks, 
Joe
Do you have any idea where cabin recirculation fits into this scheme? 

FWIW, I was just drove back from Cali through Vegas. Temp hit 119deg F for a spell.  I was driving my Chevy HHR, not the 6.9.  There's nothing about the HHR that's special or overengineered, that's for sure. I was quite concerned about overheating but never did (unlike numerous others).  It was so damn hot that I turned AC off at times (like up long grades) because of overheating concerns (engine temp going up to 232F if I recall, not sure when it boils over).  Nevertheless, the AC was able to keep things comfortable even when not set on recirc.  The real problem was having to turn it off entirely to avoid overheating.  I'm not sure how the 6.9 would have handled that.  I'm not 100% sure that my aux fan is working, I need to check that.  Cheers,
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #91 on: 13 July 2018, 10:39 AM »
This job is very, very impressive.  Hopefully you're approaching the end soon and will be able to enjoy it.

In the meantime...   I never thought about cabin recirculation till you mentioned it here.  You mention above that the manual system only recirculates 80%.  Do you know what the lever positions are to get 80% or is it fixed somehow?  I can't seem to get my hands on a euro car manual and even web searching on lever position reflects a lot of confusion out there.  The following is the best summary I've seen:

Both air flow lever up -  max defrost
LH down RH up - Max air from dash vents - no defrost
Both down - Dash and floor no defrost
LH up RH down - dash, defrost and floor

Hope I got this right.... Tks, 
Joe
Do you have any idea where cabin recirculation fits into this scheme? 

FWIW, I was just drove back from Cali through Vegas. Temp hit 119deg F for a spell.  I was driving my Chevy HHR, not the 6.9.  There's nothing about the HHR that's special or overengineered, that's for sure. I was quite concerned about overheating but never did (unlike numerous others).  It was so damn hot that I turned AC off at times (like up long grades) because of overheating concerns (engine temp going up to 232F if I recall, not sure when it boils over).  Nevertheless, the AC was able to keep things comfortable even when not set on recirc.  The real problem was having to turn it off entirely to avoid overheating.  I'm not sure how the 6.9 would have handled that.  I'm not 100% sure that my aux fan is working, I need to check that.  Cheers,

Thanks! I'm almost at the reassembly stage and am aiming toward a goal of driving it to Utah mid-August for the Helper Arts Festival to visit family.

I think the only time the recirculation flap reaches its full throw (80%) is when the air conditioning dial is turned all the way to the highest setting, and doesn't have anything to do with the sliders. The air conditioning dial has a vacuum switch on it which controls the flap position. As far as I know, it's either fully closed to allow 100% outside air to enter, or when maximum cooling is selected, it moves up for a mixture of 80% cabin air and 20% outside air.

The W116 Heating, Air Conditioning, & Automatic Climate Control service manual covers both manual and automatic climate control, though it's not always clear on the basic operation.

From what I've read, modern cars are supposed to have larger condensers than the W116, that are also parallel-flow, which makes them more efficient. This is probably the largest factor in what determines air conditioning effectiveness. I switched from a tube-and-fin condenser to a parallel-flow condenser, so it should make a significant difference. Our cars are limited by the space available in front of the radiator. I've seen people install one condenser in front of another condenser, but I've also read that this doesn't really work because the heat dissipated by one condenser is absorbed by the one behind it, and it adds more length to the system.

Anyway, I'm trying to get the coldest air conditioning any way I can feasibly do it. I'm hoping that by running an upgraded air conditioning system and still using R-12, which is the coldest refrigerant in existence short of using controversial hydocarbon substitutes, I'll have air conditioning that's at least on par with a modern car.

An auxiliary fan is an important part of the air conditioning system. The fintails didn't even have them at all, and had rather small condensers on top of it. But, they were using R-12 refrigerant, so it was probably acceptable, and better than nothing. If you decide your air conditioning isn't cold enough or you have problems with your engine getting hot (neither of which seem to be a problem with your car), you can upgrade to a 16" auxiliary fan from a second generation W126, like I did. It's plug-and-play and even has a 116 part number on the plastic screen. All you have to do is bend out the braces and install a support on the bottom.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

gavin116

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #92 on: 16 July 2018, 11:32 AM »
Hi Raueda1

It is my understanding that the system recirculates when the dial is turned past the "|" on the blue marker. See picture attached.


Edit: I found the manual I photographed a while ago, refer to page 22: https://forum.w116.org/test-drive/owner's-manual-euro-d-jetronic/msg86088/#msg86088
« Last Edit: 16 July 2018, 11:39 AM by gavin116 »

raueda1

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #93 on: 16 July 2018, 11:51 AM »
Hi Raueda1

It is my understanding that the system recirculates when the dial is turned past the "|" on the blue marker. See picture attached.

Edit: I found the manual I photographed a while ago, refer to page 22: https://forum.w116.org/test-drive/owner's-manual-euro-d-jetronic/msg86088/#msg86088
Thanks for that, makes sense.  Since the previous post I messed around with it and now it all makes sense.  With that dial rotated CCW fresh air very freely blows out the dash vents as long as the car is moving.  Moving it past that line causes airflow to be increasingly dependent on the  blower, consistent with recirculation.  I hadn't tried that before, or if I did I couldn't make sense of it.  The system works pretty well after you figure it out, but it's about as unintuitive as it gets.
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

raueda1

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #94 on: 16 July 2018, 12:06 PM »
Hi Raueda1

It is my understanding that the system recirculates when the dial is turned past the "|" on the blue marker. See picture attached.

[b]Edit: I found the manual I photographed a while ago, refer to page 22: [/b]https://forum.w116.org/test-drive/owner's-manual-euro-d-jetronic/msg86088/#msg86088
Also, thanks for the link!  I've been searching for this manual without success.  I had no idea you could tow-start (push start?) these cars!  Never heard of tow starting with an automatic tfransmission.
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #95 on: 21 July 2018, 10:50 AM »
I brushed etching primer on the cowl and painted it with leftover POR-15 Hardnose paint that I bought twelve years ago for my 1965 International Travelall.


I covered the cowl partition with lots of 3M Dynatron seam sealer, and primed and painted it. It shouldn't rust ever again!


Here's the wire harness that will control the blower motor for the climate control, removed from my parts car. The firewall grommet that used to hold all the vacuum lines for the climate control got the holes plugged with black 1/4" pull-through plugs ordered from McMaster-Carr.


I fed the wire harness through the tubing where the original wire harness was. I had to hook a wire hanger section onto the connector on each wire and pull them through one at a time. It was tricky and I was very worried about damaging the wires.


Finishing up the custom wire harness.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #96 on: 21 July 2018, 10:57 AM »
Fortunately, the sheet metal under the insulation wasn't rusty.


I installed new rubber grommets for the climate control case drains.


Don't use Rubber Renue! I had four rubber drains that fit on the bottom of the climate control case that were in good condition, other than being a little hardened at the bottom. I decided I would soak them in Rubber Renue, which is supposed to make rubber soft and supple again. It destroyed them, so now I have to buy new ones.


The climate control case is in, which is a big milestone. I should be on track to getting the air conditioning working and the car put back together so I can drive it to the Helper Arts Festival in Utah next month.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #97 on: 21 July 2018, 11:04 AM »
The blower motor resistor was rusty, so I soaked it in Evapo-Rust, but unfortunately when I was hosing it off, a piece of insulation that goes on the bimetallic strip/contact points got damaged. I carefully removed one from a spare, and unfortunately it peeled apart, so I glued the layers back together with clear POR-Patch seam sealer.


Here is the blower motor cleaned up and lubricated with Zoom Spout Oil, something of which I had not before heard, but it's supposed to be the proper oil for lubricating electric motors. The rubber bumper on the wire harness was dry rotted, so I painted on a few coats of Leak Seal to hold it together. I painted the outside of the resistor housing with silver paint.


Carefully sliding on the bimetallic strip insulation. I don't know how necessary the insulation is, but on the later production resistors, the bimetallic strip is very close to one one of the coils. Apparently, the purpose of the bimetallic strip is that if one of the coils overheats from something such as an aged blower motor drawing too much current, it will bend in one direction, being that one side is brass, and the other side is steel (which expand at different rates), and the contact points will touch, which will cause the blower motor to momentarily run on high speed, giving time for the coil to cool.


I found that a point file actually fit in from behind to access the lower half of the points, and the upper half was able to be accessed from the front.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #98 on: 21 July 2018, 11:10 AM »
I used butyl windshield installation tape to seal between the blower motor and case.


The automatic blower motor that came out of my car is on the left, and the customized manual one I'm putting in the car is on the right--much simpler!


I added 1/8" thick high temperature resilient silicone foam with adhesive back to the top of the case where it contacts the cowl.


The blower motor is installed and works on all four speeds with the dial switch.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #99 on: 25 July 2018, 09:55 AM »
I'm starting to work on my car at night because it's been about 115F during the day. Even the nights are in the 90s. Staying up all night working on my car destroyed me the first time, and I did hardly anything but sleep for the next two days. Last night I got some more things done.

I cleaned out the cowl the best I could by hand and hosed it out with water. There were a lot of pine needles in the cowl between the blower motor opening and the right side door. I blew that out with compressed air and reached up inside to touch up some small rust spots with Corroseal. Then the inside of the cowl got waxed.


The drip rail that goes inside the cowl got cleaned up and butyl windshield installation tape applied to it since the foam had deteriorated.


The drip rail and the windshield washer nozzle holders are installed. I removed a bunch more unneeded wires.


The new climate control case drains arrived from The Classic Center. If you'll remember, I've been trying to get the firewall grommet for the high pressure air conditioning hose for a few months now. The last place I ordered one (MBOEMParts.com) never sent me the parts I paid for and is completely ignoring me. I ordered one from The Classic Center and they said it would take 3-4 days because it had to come from Germany, so I said it was fine to wait until the grommet arrived before they shipped my order. 4 days later they shipped my order, and the grommet wasn't shipped with it. So, what was the point of that? Now they are sending the grommet by itself so I have to pay $9 shipping on a $1 part.


The new drains are installed.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #100 on: 25 July 2018, 10:26 AM »
I've never had success soldering wires before. I read up on it and decided a torch would work best for small automotive bullet connectors. This Bernzomatic unit works very well. It was worth every penny I don't have.


The climate control illumination wiring is interesting; on my car the power from the lighting potentiometer exits at spot 15 on the connector through a grey wire with a violet stripe and makes its way down to the emergency flasher switch. I guess it's supposed to come on with the lights, but the bulb inside must be burnt out. Interestingly, the shift plate illumination is full power and doesn't dim with the potentiometer. Then a grey wire with a blue stripe branches off of the lighting wire for the emergency flasher switch and lights the four climate control bulbs.

On a car with manual climate control, the wire exiting the instrument panel is grey with a green and a violet stripe and it goes straight to the climate control lighting (which also has four bulbs plus one inside each dial switch). Then a grey wire with a violet stripe goes from it and lights the emergency flasher switch.

Removing the automatic climate control illumination wiring from my car and then adding the wiring from the manual climate control would have been simple were it not for a few inches of the wire where it connects to the emergency flasher switch being cut off, and even if it was intact, feeding it with the connector attached would have probably been impossible due to how tight the wires are squeezed into the sheathing.

I cut the grey wire with violet stripe on my car up by where it plugs into the instrument panel. I decided that I would remove the wire which had been cut on the manual harness, and solder the wire from my car in its place, since it was the same color and already inside the sheathing going to the emergency flasher switch. I heated up the bullet connector with the torch so the solder would melt and then pulled out the wire I didn't need, and then inserted the wire coming from the emergency flasher switch.

I drilled a hole in a piece of wood and that did a good job of holding the connector still while I heated it up and swapped the wires. The end result was the harness ending up exactly as it should have been, and with the added benefit of not having to thread the wire through the sheathing on the way to the emergency flasher switch.


My first attempt using the torch was successful, and it looks just as good as it did before. A bad situation has been corrected! I am very happy that I didn't take the easy way out and use a butt connector.


The plastic covering installed over the connectors.


The feed wire going from the instrument panel to the climate control illumination wiring replaced the wire that I cut and soldered between the illumination wiring and the emergency flasher switch. It is wired correctly and now there is a grey wire with a blue stripe left over branching out of the emergency flasher switch. I was going to remove it but then had an idea--I can run it up to the instrument panel and use it to light a temperature display which I can install from a W124.


As of right now, the climate control wiring is functional. The blower motor works on all speeds, the dial and faceplate illumination work, and the compressor gets power when the air conditioning dial is turned on. I still have some parts of the wire harness to remove, but electrically the car is about ready to have the air conditioning charged with R-12. I still have to install the hoses, though.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

daantjie

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #101 on: 25 July 2018, 11:03 AM »
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who cannot solder properly ::)  For the life of me I cannot get it down, but then again I think it's the kind of thing that just takes a lot of practice.
I have also had some hit and miss order fulfillment from the Classic Centre.  For the most part their service is excellent (God knows you pay enough for stuff!) and if they mess up they have always fixed it right away, which to me is 99% of the customer service experience.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #102 on: 25 July 2018, 11:35 AM »
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who cannot solder properly ::)  For the life of me I cannot get it down, but then again I think it's the kind of thing that just takes a lot of practice.
I have also had some hit and miss order fulfillment from the Classic Centre.  For the most part their service is excellent (God knows you pay enough for stuff!) and if they mess up they have always fixed it right away, which to me is 99% of the customer service experience.

My biggest problem was I had no idea how to solder. I would put the soldering iron tip to the solder, drip it onto the joint, and then get mad when it wouldn't stick. I thought that touching the part to be soldered with the iron would damage the part. I read up on how to do it, bought that torch (which works really well because it gets super hot almost immediately and keeps the heat relatively isolated), got some good leaded rosin core solder, and flux. This is the first time I feel I've ever soldered something correctly. I was so worried about ruining it, and it ended up looking as good as the factory did it.

I'm going to try to get the shipping refunded on the grommet. It's silly. As for the businesses that took my money and didn't send the goods, I disputed the charges on my card a while ago, so I imagine I'll be getting that money back eventually as they haven't responded to my bank.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

raueda1

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #103 on: 25 July 2018, 07:19 PM »
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who cannot solder properly ::)  For the life of me I cannot get it down, but then again I think it's the kind of thing that just takes a lot of practice.
I have also had some hit and miss order fulfillment from the Classic Centre.  For the most part their service is excellent (God knows you pay enough for stuff!) and if they mess up they have always fixed it right away, which to me is 99% of the customer service experience.

My biggest problem was I had no idea how to solder. I would put the soldering iron tip to the solder, drip it onto the joint, and then get mad when it wouldn't stick. I thought that touching the part to be soldered with the iron would damage the part. I read up on how to do it, bought that torch (which works really well because it gets super hot almost immediately and keeps the heat relatively isolated), got some good leaded rosin core solder, and flux. This is the first time I feel I've ever soldered something correctly. I was so worried about ruining it, and it ended up looking as good as the factory did it.

I'm going to try to get the shipping refunded on the grommet. It's silly. As for the businesses that took my money and didn't send the goods, I disputed the charges on my card a while ago, so I imagine I'll be getting that money back eventually as they haven't responded to my bank.
I think zillions of people learned to solder putting together Heathkit stuff but now we're getting old.   :-[  I was one of them.  The trick is heating the parts with the iron sufficiently for the solder to melt on the joint and flow.  You're obviously doing that with the torch.   Fear of overheating leads to underheating and "cold" joints that are NG.  The joint itself needs to be hot enough for the solder to flow.  Most things with soldered joints are heat resistant enough to survive the soldering process.  Old circuit boards are an exception.  In many cases repeated heatings, such as to unsolder a component that will be replaced, can unstick the solder pad from the board.  Obviously the torch it OK for those heavy contacts but probably not much else.  For general purpose auto work and heavy wiring I'd use one of these:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6zBpl_NKIw.  I've had one for 45 years, at least! It's not great for fine PC boards, for that you need a much smaller iron.  It;s also a great tool for cutting plastic, whipping ropes, stuff like that.  Get spare tips and hammer one very thin.  Now you have a rope cutter, fabric cutter, plastic slicer, etc etc.  Very very useful.

I continue to be in awe of what you're doing!  Almost done!
-Dave
Now:  '76 6.9 Euro
Before that:  1966 230S, 1964 220SE coupe, 1977 Carrera 3.0

Squiggle Dog

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Re: My Custom 1980 300SD Project Part 2
« Reply #104 on: 28 July 2018, 01:51 PM »
I've been having problems getting suitable fittings for making the air conditioning hoses because the ones I need are uncommonly stocked shapes due to lack of space and the oil cooler line bracket always obstructing the path the hoses needed to go. Unfortunately, I seem to be the first person to try mounting a Sanden compressor in a W116 300SD, other than 1980sd who fabricated a bracket to fit a Sanden-style compressor which has a totally different head. In my searching, I looked through Klima Design Works' site and noticed that they had a Sanden conversion kit complete with hoses that fits the W116 300SD: https://www.klimakit.com/product/w116-sanden-sd-ac-compressor-mounting-kit/ . My curiosity and frustration got the better of me and I ordered one of their kits. I just HAD to see what their solution was.

I selected the option for "uncrimped hoses" so I could build the hoses the way I wanted using a mixture of the fittings and hose provided and my own. What I was sent was a set of crimped hoses. I was disappointed as that wasn't what I had asked for. But, I really liked the way they designed one of the hoses to go underneath the compressor to reach the condenser. It also looked like the hose going from the compressor to the evaporator was going to fit well once I adjusted the power steering return hose out of the way. Both hoses also came with strain relief brackets. So, it was a blessing in disguise; I decided the crimped, completed hoses would work great as-is, and I'd just deal with the fact that they have R-134a ports on them.

Unfortunately, it appears that the hose that goes from the compressor to the evaporator is about two feet too long! Also, the 13X965 belt that was sent with the kit is way too small. I have a feeling I'm the first customer to order the W116 kit. I think that the W116 has a larger crank pulley than the W123 and W126--when I had ROLLGUY's bracket on my car, it came with a 940mm long belt, and now they are being supplied with 950mm belts. There is no way either of those would fit (a 13X990 was the smallest belt that would fit), so it must be a difference in the W116 crank pulley. The compressor I am using is a standard Sanden 508 with a 32mm pulley.

Klima sends an adapter that can be soldered onto the compressor wire so it plugs into the factory connector on the wire harness. I ended up cutting a brown ground wire from a spare wire harness I had and put some heat shrink tubing on the connector end. I used a piece of sheathing from the harness and fed both wires through. I attached the ground wire at the screw that holds the bracket that secures the power wire.


I crimped and soldered the provided connectors onto the wires.


The connectors are snapped into the plastic housing.


I found that my compressor has a crack in one of the ears. >:( The Klima bracket goes across two sets of ears instead of just one, so hopefully it supports it enough to where the crack won't be an issue. I'm also worried because my compressor clutch was really hard to turn and couldn't be done by hand, even with the caps off. I had to use a ratchet to turn it when I was replacing the oil with 5 oz of double end-capped PAG100. I saw little metal particles coming out of the shipping oil. I hope that was just manufacturing residue. The compressor hasn't even been run yet and I'm questioning whether it's good to use at all.


I have to say that I am very happy with the Klima Design Works Sanden adapter bracket. While the one from ROLLGUY is great, I am finding that I have a little more clearance over the skid plate mounting arm and belt tension adjustment is easy. Then again, the Klima kits are more costly and your average W123 or W126 isn't going to have the clearance issues the W116 has. The W116 is an odd duck.
« Last Edit: 28 July 2018, 02:03 PM by Squiggle Dog »
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+