Author Topic: My 6.9's  (Read 21464 times)

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
My 6.9's
« on: 01 September 2015, 07:36 AM »
Hi,

Just received my 2 6.9's.  One is barely running and the other probably a parts car.

Trying to figure out the year (production date) of them

first is 0162, 2nd is 1951.

looking at production numbers on wiki,  the first would appear to be a 1975 and euro?  title says 1976 and has been represented to me as a US car. it has cloth interior and euro bumpers. I need to poke around and see if it has cats on it and the other teltales to see what I can.

the 2nd would be 1976 - titled as 1977 though.  from paperwork I have, looks like it spent a few years in Europe first. original service books shows 1330 km service done on 1/14/77. By 1982 it had reached 136181 km. Car must of had a lot of highway miles on it.

both are probably registration dated from first registration, not YOM.

need to figure out if first is a euro though.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

daantjie

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,687
  • W116 Enthusiast
  • Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #1 on: 01 September 2015, 09:09 AM »
You can see the month and year of production on the metal tag on the driver side B pillar.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

s class

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,151
  • I'll keep the 116's, the rest can go
  • Location: Squeezing 3 W116's into a double garage
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #2 on: 01 September 2015, 02:06 PM »
Easy to tell if its a euro as the euros have an engine oil cooler, and no EGR or air pump equipment. 

The early car is very likely to be a euro as afaik it was only into late 1976 that the US spec 6.9 was introduced.  Would be a real shame to part out such an early euro, they have some nice quirks that differentiate them from the later cars. 

'76 6.9 Euro, '78 6.9 AMG, '80 280SE, '74 350SE, '82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro , '81 500SL

wbrian63

  • Classic
  • **
  • Posts: 432
  • W. Brian Fogarty
  • Location: Houston, TX, USA
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #3 on: 02 September 2015, 05:26 AM »
Not often I see a sequence # lower than mine - good score on 0162.

Wikipedia says that #1950 was the lowest sequence # that would have come to N. America.

1975 vin's run up to 474
1976 475 to 1475.

They don't start over with zero at each model year, so sequence #'s, so you add each of the model year #'s together to get your car's placement in the model year hierarchy.

Based on that, 1951 was the 2nd car produced for the 1977 model year. Based on the park-bench bumpers and the quad headlamps, it probably was a N. America delivered car, but that's no guarantee. Cars imported to the US were "federalized" - but I'm not certain if that extends to having the 5mph bumpers fitted. Both #521 and #1164 were imported to the US and federalized (I can see the added interior door bracing), but when I purchased each, they were fitted with euro-style headlamps, and neither shows (showed) signs of ever having been fitted with the US-spec bumpers (a huge job).

Also - US-delivered cars were fitted with an auxiliary transmission cooler pump. You'll find it right on the bottom of the engine - the 1975 car will have an idler pulley in it's place.

The data plate on the radiator crossmember will tell you the country of destination for the car - I don't remember the code, others on this site will.

As others have noted, euro-delivered cars will be devoid of any emissions control. No cats, no EGR (easily spotted mounted onto the top of the exhaust manifold - don't remember which side).

Typically, these cars also were fitted with manual climate control. Many also had velour seat covers - my former #1164 was so-equipped.

The quick tell-all will be the presence of an oil cooler (you'll see it as a small extra radiator mounted vertically on the left-hand side of the car adjacent to the engine radiator). No made-for-N. America 6.9's had an engine oil cooler.

Good score - plan on rust removal - ask me how I know... http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/6-9-521-restoration/msg113855/#msg113855
« Last Edit: 02 September 2015, 05:31 AM by wbrian63 »
W. Brian Fogarty

'12 S550 (W221)
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
'02 S55 AMG (W220) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164 - parted out

"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter V

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #4 on: 02 September 2015, 06:58 AM »
#162 is def a euro, it has the import Federalization tag on the B pillar, and the vin tag on the radiator support. I dont really think this car will survive, lots more rust in rockers, very worn out velour seats, and is already missing small engine bits.  the air cleaner was soaked in oil, looks like bad blow by. I plan on using as a parts car for the other one. I found steel plates welded inside the front bumper support on the euro bumpers.  it has US lights.  If anyone is interested in parts let me know.  I do plan on keeping most of the 6.9 specific parts. The rest of the blue interior is in pretty decent shape, door panels, plastic trim and carpets.  the seats are just plain worn, though not horribly crappy.

#1951 is in much better condition, leather and interior will clean up well with a lot of work. I have a lot of the original manuals and docs for it. build card, maintenance book, owners manual in english and german, the parts diagram book had to be tossed it was covered in black mold, and user manual for the Webasto heater! Also becker radio books.

There is also a Internationaler Zulussungsschein. The car was owned and driven by a German until 1982, then it looks like a person from Las Vegas bought it and drove it in Europe for 3 months. Car came back to Nevada and then was owned by a Doctor. Have a few receipts from 1985 to  1991.  Then car traveled to Colorado , someone tried to work on it in 2010, but I'm pretty sure they did not get it running very well.  Now it's mine. 

There are no tags on B pillar or radiator support.  I think the radiator support has been changed as it has different paint color on it. The car currently barely starts.  It will fire up for 10 seconds then die out. I suspect filthy fuel system, will start with removing and cleaning everything. The 10 seconds it runs sound good though. The build card says it was built on 12/28/1976.

Also need a new ring gear.  starting is hard with a bad spot on it.  What is easier access, pull engine or just trans?
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

wbrian63

  • Classic
  • **
  • Posts: 432
  • W. Brian Fogarty
  • Location: Houston, TX, USA
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #5 on: 03 September 2015, 06:04 AM »
I'm pretty sure I have a spare ring gear.

If you've got a good (no rust) fuel tank between the two, I'd be interested.
W. Brian Fogarty

'12 S550 (W221)
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521
'02 S55 AMG (W220) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164 - parted out

"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter V

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #6 on: 03 September 2015, 09:48 AM »
I thought I would complete my bio here and then start posting in the mechanical/interior sections for questions I have.

Anyway I have had my first MB '68 250S for 40 years, my dad bought it new.  have had many others since. Currently have the 250S, '91 300SE, and a '98 SL500, and now the 6.9's. I am active on the benzworld forum, mostly in the Vintage forum.  My handle there is also rumb.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #7 on: 08 September 2015, 11:53 AM »
Brian,  I should have an extra gas tank, will probably be a while before I can pull off, let me know if interested - email me.

Thought I would also chronicle my car here, and ask relevant question in the other sections.

Spent many hours power washing wheel wells and underside of car. It had been heavily undercoated, and in this case it does seem to have protected things pretty well and not made things worse. Very slowly I have been able to blast most of it off.  Have found a half dozen rust through spots, and most do not seem too horrible to deal with. The drivers side rocker has been quite abused and is caved in by idiot handlers.  I think the front jack point is bad for sure. I knew I would be replacing the rockers when I bought the car, will have to see as I get into it if I have to do the inner panels also.  The rest of the rust in the usual places is not to large. scored a set of 4 very good condition painted 6.5" bundt wheels on fleabay for $31!  one is an original 108, the rest are italian repops.

Found Italian air horns installed under battery tray with a mess of wiring that I need to remove. original horns are still there.

Placed several large orders for suspension, fuel, filters, and rubber parts.  I plan of doing first scrub of filthy mushroom interior while I wait for parts.  Leather will restore nicely, will have to redye them. Carpet is filthy will just replace later.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

beagle2022

  • Classic
  • **
  • Posts: 220
  • 1979 280 sel
  • Location: Sydney Australia
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #8 on: 09 September 2015, 01:57 AM »
Hi. If your carpet is just plain filthy (as opposed to worn out) can I suggest a high pressure water hose after pre-wash stain remover?  I used it as a last resort on mine and it all came out remarkably well.   A testimony to the material quality.
Sydney, Australia

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #9 on: 09 September 2015, 10:10 AM »
In case your wondering I bought it on fleabay.
MERCEDES 450SEL 450 SEL 6.9 LEFT INNER ROCKER PANEL FRAME MEMBER 116 610 01 09
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #10 on: 27 September 2015, 01:07 PM »
Started changing rear accumulators. PO heaped abuse and idiocy on car. the one rear he did change was with a front one. somehow he tore a 1.5" hole in the trunk floor around one of the bolt holes.  guess a bit of welding will fix.

Got fuel pump and assorted items ready to go.

started draining oil. I was surprised that there was no oil at all in the side tank. Is this normal when the car has been sitting for a while?  Decided to remove big hoses and really clean tank.  Need to find or borrow some big wrenches as those hoses are on tight!
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

daantjie

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,687
  • W116 Enthusiast
  • Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #11 on: 27 September 2015, 01:58 PM »
You mean dry sump tank empty :o not good. That thing carries about 3 gal of oil alone plus the oil in the pan and filter about 12 liters total.
Careful with those hose connections they are super tight from rust normally.
Could be you have a leak from the rubber hoses between the oil tank and pan. Better take a good look down there...
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #12 on: 27 September 2015, 04:19 PM »
Yeah, sump tank was empty, that is why I am pulling it and removing hoses. There was a lot of oil in the pan.

The hoses all look fine.

Is there a check valve somewhere?  How does the oil normally get out of the sump?  thru the oil pump?

I cant currently start the engine due to other work. I've only had the engine running a few minutes at most since I got the car.

'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

daantjie

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,687
  • W116 Enthusiast
  • Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #13 on: 27 September 2015, 05:29 PM »
One hose for feed, one for return and the thinnest is a vent pipe.
There is a check valve in the filter housing and one in the oil pump.
Hot idle gauge should be in the middle and must immediately peg to max as you hit the throttle.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

rumb

  • W116 Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • MB Enthusiast
  • Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: My 6.9's
« Reply #14 on: 28 September 2015, 07:12 AM »
Let's hope it's a check valve.  will take a few days to find appropriate wrenches to take hoses off.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550