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Garage => Test Drive => Topic started by: Thegger on 27 September 2018, 02:18 AM

Title: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 27 September 2018, 02:18 AM
Hello.
My name is Tommy, from Norway and bought a 450SE with m117.986 as my first car project ever.
I have no mechanic background, so this is just for fun and because i like it. Feedback would be appreciated. :)

The car is a Japan version. Is it sold new there then? Before I got it, it was imported from Dubai. The person i bought it from had it garaged for 8 years because of misfiring on two cylinders.
Since it came from Dubai when he bought it, it not much corrosion and pretty good looking in the paint.

Long story short, misfiring came from bad maintenence on the engine. Cylinderhead were covered in buttery oil, lifters plugged and the camshafts were torn, flat lobes and rocker arms also very worn. Pulled of the cylinder heads after and found one bent exhaust valve and most of the valveseats were covered in sticky shit. Thats why the car was showing high HC on exhaust gas last emission test.

Ive started putting the engine together again. New exhaust valve, cleaned up the cylinder head and grinded up all valves/seats.
New lifters, rocker arms. Now im waiting for new machined camshafts from Catcams with a little more sport profile.

Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: daantjie on 27 September 2018, 07:57 AM
Welcome Tommy!
Nice Euro! Green one of my all time best colours on the 116.
You will find lots of help here. Most of us do most of the work on our cars ourselves as skilled older mechanics are very hard to find.
Good luck and keep asking I am sure you will find the community here the best 116 resource on the planet!
Cheers
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 27 September 2018, 10:12 AM
Does anyone have a good picture of the m117 engine from above? I lost my phone and all the pictures ive taken, so my memory struggle a little bit with where the parts was located  ;D
Without the airfilter.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: ptashek on 27 September 2018, 11:02 AM
Welcome Tommy, and good luck with your project.
There should be a few shots of the engine and engine bay in my resto archive (https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/zv9485.szmit.eu/resto/pics/index.html).

I have more and better quality versions offline if you need them. Happy to share, too.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 27 September 2018, 11:10 AM
Welcome Tommy, and good luck with your project.
There should be a few shots of the engine and engine bay in my resto archive (https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/zv9485.szmit.eu/resto/pics/index.html).

I have more and better quality versions offline if you need them. Happy to share, too.

Thanks. That was exactly what I needed. What a great job you have done. Really nice.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 28 September 2018, 01:41 PM
Welcome Tommy, and good luck with your project.
There should be a few shots of the engine and engine bay in my resto archive (https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/zv9485.szmit.eu/resto/pics/index.html).

I have more and better quality versions offline if you need them. Happy to share, too.

What engine is that? I have the 117.986 and there is some differences.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Randys01 on 29 September 2018, 01:04 AM
Hey Tommy.  For some one with no mechanical background, you have taken on a fairly sophisticated top overhaul. As a matter of interest, where r u getting your shims from to adjust the hydraulic  valve lifters [after the valve grind etc] ?
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 29 September 2018, 01:38 AM
I did the grind Job by hand with a wooden grinding stick and grinding paste. I have not made any measurement of the lifters yet, because i dont have the camshafts yet.
Have used pelicanparts and autodoc for parts. Also have a shop herr in Norway which helps me with parts.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 29 September 2018, 02:53 AM
Are these chromelists and the flag holder in front any extra equipment? Havent seen these lists before.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 30 October 2018, 10:00 AM
New camshafts arrived today.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: marku on 30 October 2018, 12:05 PM
Really need some camshafts mine are a bit pitted as it was left when a head gasket went and water got into the oil. Did you say that yours has a flagstaff? If you have they are like gold always wanted one. The modern S Class have them and the retrofit kit is not cheap and quite complicated.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 30 October 2018, 12:50 PM
Previous owner told me it was a flagstaff, but im not sure what it is. As the car is a Japan version and later importen to Dubai i cant track any info on the car. The Chrome lists on the door is also something not so usual?
My camshafts had to be replaced. So ordered these with a bit of sport profile.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 30 October 2018, 01:04 PM
Flagstaff?
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 30 October 2018, 04:29 PM
These are universal parking pennants, a massive seller in yellow Asia, and a non-existing item in the rest of the world. I shall refrain from generalizations, but if ever  there was a time..
These were not sold by MB japan, btw, those could still be considered somewhat of an original item. ISome time ago, I emptied out all the online sites in japan, bought every 70's MB pennant I could find for reasonable money. Have not gotten around having them re-chromed with locally made non-invasive mounting brackets for W116. That is/was the plan. When it's done, they'll be available here in the forum, for members. Regarding this one in the photo, it's safe to remove, and i would do so before you impale your neighbor's dog.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 30 October 2018, 11:12 PM
Thanks for the info Floyd. Good to know 😊
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 31 October 2018, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the info Floyd. Good to know 😊

Forgot to add.. There are many pics of such pennants on my "Layman" thread. MB Japan supplied them with a star on top. One version has a light built in the top.
It is unclear what exact star-versions were sold over the years, or how many MB Japan versions were issued at all. Also not sure whether there were ever specific W116 brackets. Seems they were mostly installed in R107 and W126, and always with star. The no-star versions are still on sale in japan for a variety of cars, same model for non-MB and MB, indicating a clear aftermarket model. The Star-version was found in 4 versions, 3 lengths and a lit-star version, and split in 2 versions with a spring at the bottom for extra play, or no-spring. There are at least 3 bracket-versions with all versions using  mixed chromed and galvanized parts, unlike the well-known MB Flag Pole's fully shiny finish. Considering the descriptions that went with the 26 pennants I bought, the star versions are pretty recognizable, and clearly 70's-80's.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 31 October 2018, 11:31 PM
And you bought all you found ? Sounds expensive 😜 dont know if im gonna have my pole on the car. It looks so much netter on a mint show car than mine i think. No star either 😐
Thanks for a good answer to my flag pole mystery 😉
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 01 November 2018, 02:03 AM
well, they are expensive now! After buying all the affordable stock, only a handful I left behind, due to excessive pricing.
https://buyee.jp/item/search/query/mercedes%20parking%20pole?translationType=1&suggest=1
Still, good examples here.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 01 November 2018, 02:50 AM
You gonna be rich now 😂
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: marku on 01 November 2018, 12:04 PM
That is expensive but they are not the 116 ones are they? Although the originals would be preferred they are not that different from the modern ones. As I said the modern S Class has them and a retrofitting kit. Must find out how much as I have always fancied the family crest fluttering on the front of the 450.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: rumb on 01 November 2018, 03:43 PM
you can buy a new flag pole for $114.70

https://www.mboemparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-standard-holder-1208100084

still would need the mount
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 01 November 2018, 08:19 PM
You gonna be rich now 😂

Well, I wouldn't have bought them all if they had been costly. Antiques and classics are seen as "used, second-hand, and are not popular in Asia. So, I was the only buyer in japan, by the looks of it, haha! Have checked back a few times the last years, but it really seems like I got the bulk of whatever was offered online, and no revival since.
Also, back then, Japan Buyee had combi-shipping from a central collecting spot, so many of these pennants were shipped together for economy.. There should be room for a re-chroming fee this way, without them getting too costly for the forum members.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 02 November 2018, 07:47 AM
Anyone who can japanese?  :o



Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 02 November 2018, 09:39 AM
Anyone who can japanese?  :o

foto 1 == automatic transmission import car

leaf clover is  MOT..

19-5 square green sticker. it s city-area access registration, ministry of transport issued


last one is "unleaded gas, courtesy of gov org dep. bla blah
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 02 November 2018, 10:17 AM
Thanks! MOT?  ::)
Ministry of transport i guess 😜
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 04 November 2018, 03:12 AM
DMV, yearly technical gov test.. MOT
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 06 November 2018, 10:08 AM
I have tried to wire my vacuum to this picture, with some modifications.

But the exhaust pressure transducer, the line in center wich goes to the exhaust. Does anyone know where this is supposed to go? My line is melted at the end and plugged because of the heat. That one is not working for sure.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: daantjie on 06 November 2018, 11:23 AM
From memory on my 6.9 at least, there should be a metal hard line coming off the exhaust manifold, and then this connects to the pressure transducer with a silicone connector and vacuum line.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 06 November 2018, 11:30 AM
Ok ill take another look. I have a metal line coming from both headers and wired to other lines. Thanks :)
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: floyd111 on 06 November 2018, 04:33 PM
Do you need the EGR system in Norway? Do lots of people not simply delete it from the car?
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 06 November 2018, 10:20 PM
We have to take an EU approval check of the car every second year. One of the tings they check is the emission. I have a comment from last controll, too high co readings. But im not sure if i need to be passing the criteria with an old car. Im gonna ask next week. Controll then.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 07 November 2018, 01:14 PM
When i pulled the radiator i drained what I thought was the transmission oil at the bottom. Two hoses to the oil cooler. But When i put the thing together today, i checked the Oil stick for the gearbox and it showed normal level of Oil. I drained many litres through those hoses...??
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Mick74 on 07 November 2018, 01:23 PM
I changed my transmission oil last week and was going to open those hoses to the cooler too, but the "old" oil and filter looked fresh so I left them alone, because I'd surely break something if I went at them. I watched Kent Bergsma on Mercedessource open these and not much oil came out.
Did you have the car running when you opened them if so much fluid came out of yours?
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 07 November 2018, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the tip Mick. Ill check that out. I was emptying the engine oil as well and i can be wrong about the amount. The car was not running. I wanted to maske sure it wasnt anything else I drained. But if the level is ok on the stick, it should be safe?
Thanks.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Mick74 on 07 November 2018, 01:49 PM
If the dipstick is reading normal when hot and the engine running then you should be fine. I found it stressful with mine as I was sure that I had replaced what came out but nothing showed on the stick. Added more, waited, still nothing. I had to leave on a trip, so drove 10 miles, checked it again, still no sign, added more, got more stressed and then all of a sudden, it appeared as full. Drove me mental!
Maybe this video will help. It certainly helped me. I find Mercedessouce a great help with advice and products. Worth checking out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnkPuUoi3c0
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 06:08 AM
From memory on my 6.9 at least, there should be a metal hard line coming off the exhaust manifold, and then this connects to the pressure transducer with a silicone connector and vacuum line.

My metal lines connects to these boxes. Nothing to the transducer.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 06:09 AM
If the dipstick is reading normal when hot and the engine running then you should be fine. I found it stressful with mine as I was sure that I had replaced what came out but nothing showed on the stick. Added more, waited, still nothing. I had to leave on a trip, so drove 10 miles, checked it again, still no sign, added more, got more stressed and then all of a sudden, it appeared as full. Drove me mental!
Maybe this video will help. It certainly helped me. I find Mercedessouce a great help with advice and products. Worth checking out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnkPuUoi3c0

Yeah, its gonna be the same prosedure here then :P Thanks for the video :)
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 06:10 AM
Is this the oil pressure?
OEL bar. Mine is going to 3 Bar when I start up. Should it be that high?
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: daantjie on 08 November 2018, 07:58 AM
From memory on my 6.9 at least, there should be a metal hard line coming off the exhaust manifold, and then this connects to the pressure transducer with a silicone connector and vacuum line.

My metal lines connects to these boxes. Nothing to the transducer.

I have never seen those little boxes before, quite odd ???
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: daantjie on 08 November 2018, 08:01 AM
Is this the oil pressure?
OEL bar. Mine is going to 3 Bar when I start up. Should it be that high?

Correct.  "oel" means oil in German.  3 bar is what you want yes, this is operating oil pressure and it should peg at the max on the gauge. It is normal for hot oil pressure to drop when the car is idling, but it should always peg to the max the second you hit the gas.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: daantjie on 08 November 2018, 08:03 AM
I changed my transmission oil last week and was going to open those hoses to the cooler too, but the "old" oil and filter looked fresh so I left them alone, because I'd surely break something if I went at them. I watched Kent Bergsma on Mercedessource open these and not much oil came out.
Did you have the car running when you opened them if so much fluid came out of yours?

The oil cooler for the transmission holds very little oil, not sure on the exact amount but you should easily be able to top off this amount just by adding to the filler tube.  By far the biggest volume is held in the transmission pan and torque converter.  I can only stress again to really check hot idling oil level multiple times.  It can be very tricky to get a good reading on the stick.  Go for a quick drive to fully warm the car up, then make sure you are parked on level ground.  Leave it idling for a minute or so, then take multiple readings to make sure you are within the min and max levels while the car is running and in Park.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 08:21 AM
From memory on my 6.9 at least, there should be a metal hard line coming off the exhaust manifold, and then this connects to the pressure transducer with a silicone connector and vacuum line.

My metal lines connects to these boxes. Nothing to the transducer.

I have never seen those little boxes before, quite odd ???

Hmm the boxes are original from mercedes.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 09:24 AM
Is this the oil pressure?
OEL bar. Mine is going to 3 Bar when I start up. Should it be that high?

Correct.  "oel" means oil in German.  3 bar is what you want yes, this is operating oil pressure and it should peg at the max on the gauge. It is normal for hot oil pressure to drop when the car is idling, but it should always peg to the max the second you hit the gas.

Good, then it is how its suppose to be :) Thanks
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 12:36 PM
From memory on my 6.9 at least, there should be a metal hard line coming off the exhaust manifold, and then this connects to the pressure transducer with a silicone connector and vacuum line.

My metal lines connects to these boxes. Nothing to the transducer.

I have never seen those little boxes before, quite odd ???

Hmm the boxes are original from mercedes.

Im guessing its for the exhaust temp signal in my dash?
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: rumb on 08 November 2018, 12:54 PM
odd part 001-548-26-41 boxes in your picture.  EPC only shows used on 126, 107, 123 all japan versions.

can you post picture of exhaust temp signal on your dash?  never heard of that either.

Do you have your data card with option codes?  maybe something on there explains it.

Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 08 November 2018, 01:14 PM
odd part 001-548-26-41 boxes in your picture.  EPC only shows used on 126, 107, 123 all japan versions.

can you post picture of exhaust temp signal on your dash?  never heard of that either.

Do you have your data card with option codes?  maybe something on there explains it.

I will post a picture tomorrow of the dash. I have a Japan version.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 09 November 2018, 04:39 AM
odd part 001-548-26-41 boxes in your picture.  EPC only shows used on 126, 107, 123 all japan versions.

can you post picture of exhaust temp signal on your dash?  never heard of that either.

Do you have your data card with option codes?  maybe something on there explains it.


Here you are,
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: rumb on 09 November 2018, 04:58 AM
Very interesting!

498 = Japan Version

Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 09 November 2018, 05:42 AM
Very interesting!

498 = Japan Version

😊
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 09 November 2018, 05:50 AM
Startup today. Tried to have 20 min at 2000rpm for the new camshafts.
What is normal temperatur? Mine landed at about 80degrees celsius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw82ZVOPwfY&feature=share
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: rumb on 09 November 2018, 06:55 AM
thermostat should be 87 degrees so yours is running fine.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 09 November 2018, 07:02 AM
thermostat should be 87 degrees so yours is running fine.

Perfect :)
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 06 December 2018, 12:23 AM
Next on to do list:
New flex discs
New propeller shaft bearing
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 18 January 2019, 12:50 AM
Replaced flex discs yesterday and the prop shaft bearing. It took about 2 hours. Some trouble disconnecting the prop shaft at the middle, but it came loose after some struggling 😊 flex discs wasnt that bad, but cracked several places. The bearing on prop shaft was worse than I thought. It was teared apart.
Also got my new wheels. Remotec 16x8.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: rumb on 18 January 2019, 06:57 AM
New center bearing will greatly reduce vibrations!  make sure you put the two shaft back together exactly at they were originally, or you will have to the the entire shaft balanced.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 18 January 2019, 08:29 AM
New center bearing will greatly reduce vibrations!  make sure you put the two shaft back together exactly at they were originally, or you will have to the the entire shaft balanced.

Yes it did. There is some vibrations now also, but it depends on the speed im driving in. I did not mark the shaft, so i guess its not at the same place.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 14 March 2019, 01:41 PM
New wheels. 8x16 215/55.
Remotec
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 14 March 2019, 04:57 PM
.
Title: Re: My 450Se 1977 project
Post by: Thegger on 11 April 2019, 01:54 PM
Finally got license on the car