LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > Bleeding problems...

[Tony66_au]

Clutch looks ok, Pretty good infact!

Which is a bit of a bugger because it now means you have to chase the rattle.

[oversize]

If my ATS wheels will give my car a donk look as well, I'll stick with the original steels + hubcaps!

You mean something like this??   

[LosCreepers]

Yes, exactly, that's what I want to achieve on mine.
How's this car lowered?

[TJ 450]

That must be bagged surely, how would you turn corners without fouling the wheel arches?

It looks great though (IMO).

Tim

[LosCreepers]

Hello guys, it's me again! Long week, lots of phone calls, emails, studying part numbers and forums... Looking for as much info as I could find on the W116 5spd manual transmission.

In the meantime I installed the new discs on the rear of the car. Another item crossed off my to do list.







I had my flywheel machined to get rid off the grooves, it's super smooth again! Was not even that expensive, I paid only 18,13€.



Now, I found the right gearbox. Some guy of a Dutch forum remembered someone had a 5spd gearbox for sale months ago. I contacted the guy if he still had the gearbox, he did. This is the gearbox from the pics ^above^ in my previous post. After a lot of research I found out the only thing different was the bell housing. I went to check out the gearbox myself and brought my own to compare them. I was indeed a perfect match except for the bell housing.



It gets even better, the gearbox I picked up is an Original Mercedes-Benz Tauschaggregat, in other words, a gearbox that has been overhauled by Mercedes-Benz itself. Nice! Of course I don't really know when this took place, but the fact is has been checked internally by Mercedes-Benz mechanics is still nice!





After a thorough clean on the outside I took out the oil to refresh it. Oil level was low in the gearbox, but the oil was nice and clean. I checked what kind of oil had to go back in... oil for automatic transmissions? Weird. I still have to order that as I never had an automatic before. Also I put in new rubbers in the selector forks, the old ones where a bit ... old.





Here you can see the differences in the bell housings. I don't really know if it is actually different, could be just a newer version. It seems the holes are in the exact same position, but I replaced it anyway.



Some new grease and the new thrust bearing in place.



Flywheel back in position, looks a lot better than before!



For my VWs I have a very nice and easy tool to make sure the clutch is centered. Of course I did not for the Merc, so I machined one. Makes it very easy to install the clutch properly!





I just need some small parts before I can drive the car, I really hope someone could supply me with the part numbers... That would be awesome.

- clutch slave cylinder
- gasket between clutch slave cylinder and gearbox
- rubber sleeve over tail shaft splines
- the rubbers/bushings for the selector forks (the ones near the shifter, not on the gearbox side)

Thanks for looking,
Cheers,
Reinoud

[Tony66_au]

The alignment tools I used to have were basically junked input shafts I had collected over the years, chances were that I had one to fit and if not then id mill one up that same as yours, align the set and voila! slip the box on like a d&%# in a b*#@%

[LosCreepers]

slip the box on like a d&%# in a b*#@%

It did actually, the box is back in. Speedocable, starter, all the engine-trans bolts are mounted. Just waiting for the small parts I mentioned above to finish it. Thursday all the parts will be either shipped to my house or ready to be picked up, so it has to be ready Thursday night!

How do you guys normally tighten the nut on the tailshaft near the rubber sock/sleeve? I do have spanners in 41 and 46, but those are some huge ass m#therf#ckers. I really had a hard time getting them loose. 

[LosCreepers]

- clutch slave cylinder
- gasket between clutch slave cylinder and gearbox
- rubber sleeve over tail shaft splines
- the rubbers/bushings for the selector forks (the ones near the shifter, not on the gearbox side)

So I had all the parts in last week, installed everything. I had a hard time getting the selector forks aligned right, could not get the car in 5th gear and reverse using the shifter in the car. After some cursing I read somewhere that the selector forks right below the shifter have to be 'locked' in a neutral position using a 6mm pin. After some more cursing I managed to get an tiny M6 bolt in there (there's not much room for your hand..) and then I saw why the car did not shift into 5th and reverse, the selector fork was way too long. I actually had to take the lever of the gearbox off the splines and rotate them a spline to make it work. Gearbox probably came out of another car than mine. But hey, it works! And with the new bushings everywhere, it shifts better than ever!

So onto the next problem. As my slave clutch cylinder died when taking out the gearbox, I had to replace it with a new one. Of course, I did not wait for the new one to arrive before slipping the box back in the car. So now I had to wiggle the steel line over the box and fiddle it into the freshly mounted cylinder... losing a lot of brake fluid. I knew I had to bleed the clutch cylinder anyways, but losing this brake fluid wasn't making it any easier.

When everything was mounted I started bleeding the clutch system. Without any luck... I have bled a lot of brakes, but I never bled a clutch (my VWs and even my 2001 daily Seat have a cable), so I hoped I was doing something wrong. But even with some help of some friends who are car mechanics, I could not get the clutch to be properly bled and get it to work. With the engine running I could not get it into gears and with the car started in first gear with the clutch pedal pressed to the floor, the car would still start rolling. Shit. I tried everything, connecting a hose from the brake cylinder to the slave cylinder, opening them both and gently pressing the brake pedal... Nothing seems to be working. I eventually called a garage nearby and asked them if I could borrow their bleeding equipment. But even with the professional equipment the garage normally bleeds brakes and clutches, It did not do anything.

Now what remember from driving the car before the whole clutch/gearbox thing, is that the clutch pedal was a little sticky, when you'd release it, it would not always follow the foot but stay down for half a second before hitting the foot again. I think the cups inside the master clutch cylinder are messing with me. When bleeding the clutch, sometimes I had a lot of pressure when pressing the clutch pedal, but sometimes it would just fall to the floor, the only pressure you'd feel was the spring attached to the pedal. This also points to master clutch cylinder cups that are stuck. So I ordered a new clutch cylinder, should arrive this week.

Damn, I really can't wait to drive the car, it has been a pain in the ass so far. I will be going on holidays coming friday, so another two weeks of not-driving-it. This was not really how I planned my classic Mercedes to be!

[gavin116]

Hi Reinoud

Looks like you and Zook need to put your heads together.  You must surely be able to get the clutches working again.  Just think, another decade or two, and you'll be automatic-ing like the rest of us old boys!

Happy holidays, your perseverance will pay dividends.

Gavin

[LosCreepers]

Hi Reinoud

Looks like you and Zook need to put your heads together.  You must surely be able to get the clutches working again.  Just think, another decade or two, and you'll be automatic-ing like the rest of us old boys!

Happy holidays, your perseverance will pay dividends.

Gavin

Haha, yes I already saw he had similar problems. I'll send him a message, maybe we can fix our problems together. 
Yeah well, I sure hope to drive a stick for a long long time. I just think it's a lot more fun to drive.
You old boys just drive them automatics, more manual cars left for real men! 

Cheers, you too!

[oversize]

Oh here we go; game on!  LOL!

[zook]

I tried everything, connecting a hose from the brake cylinder to the slave cylinder, opening them both and gently pressing the brake pedal... Nothing seems to be working. I eventually called a garage nearby and asked them if I could borrow their bleeding equipment. But even with the professional equipment the garage normally bleeds brakes and clutches, It did not do anything.

Now what remember from driving the car before the whole clutch/gearbox thing, is that the clutch pedal was a little sticky, when you'd release it, it would not always follow the foot but stay down for half a second before hitting the foot again. I think the cups inside the master clutch cylinder are messing with me. When bleeding the clutch, sometimes I had a lot of pressure when pressing the clutch pedal, but sometimes it would just fall to the floor, the only pressure you'd feel was the spring attached to the pedal. This also points to master clutch cylinder cups that are stuck. So I ordered a new clutch cylinder, should arrive this week.

ahhhh balls  had my fingers crossed the pro gear would work. FWIW, my cylinders are new. may be worth our while if i had a go with some proper equipment. either way, looks like i wont be taking the 'box off.

there may be some secret trick to doing it on these old benzes...bit farfetched, but either way worth trying to track down some MB mechanics for their opinion......Mark? haha

You old boys just drive them automatics, more manual cars left for real men! 

AMEN!! hahaha. ill never turn to the dark side

[Tony66_au]

Boys boys boys.............

You TALK the talk but dont really walk the walk here with all this manual cog swapping chatter.

Its not a manual unless its got a dog box with helical cut gears..... This synchromesh BS is for PUSSIES!

If you have to use the clutch for more than 1st gear takeoff then its not a real manual,

If you cant hear the gears whine as they spin?

Its not a real manual.

If you dont have to blip the throttle to match engine, box and road speed on a downshift?

Its not a real manual gearbox.......

Face it boys, you are playing every time you drive your car and there is nothing wrong with that but dont start poking fun at the Auto boys until you have driven a crash box as a daily for a while.

:-)

[oversize]

Who needs a manual when you can drive an auto like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KnLtWeqUnQ&list=UUOjtZbJEHGEHSSwPMEGC6AQ&index=1

And yes I believe he's using the original engine which sounds amazing!!!   

[oversize]

C'mon guys how hard can it be to bleed a clutch???  I've done it successfully by myself on a car with no pedal return spring (Toyota Camry).  I had to actually pull the pedal up from the floor after each down stroke, as the system relied on the pressure plate to push the pedal back up and with the bleeder nipple open that feature didn't function.....  In many cases you can let gravity bleed the system (slowly) when you open the bleeder.  You may only need a few pumps to ensure there's no air left in the system.