Author Topic: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > Bleeding problems...  (Read 15124 times)

LosCreepers

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LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > Bleeding problems...
« on: 28 November 2012, 04:38 AM »
Hello,

My name is Reinoud, 24 years old, all the way from the Netherlands. Two weeks ago I bought my first Mercedes, a 280SE from 1974. Speedo and a large amount of documentation read 251k km, originally from France, hence the yellow fog lights. Beautiful brown semi-leather interior in very nice condition, the 6 cylinder engine starts and drives like a charm. I've been looking for a manual transmission car, because automatics make me feel like I'm an old man.  ;D Needs some minor rust issues, as the European climate is not the best for cars... I usually work on classic Volkswagens, so I'm familiar with welding (unfortunately ;) ).

Some pictures, some include my 1959 Beetle:









I already bought some wheels to put under the 280SE, we testfitted them on the lowered 280S of a friend of mine.
16" 8J ET11 ATS wheels, I think the champagne color will look killer on my white Benz!











After driving it for a week, it was going into the 'body shop' to fix the rust in the right front wheel well. There were two holes there, but the sills were already filled with mud/grass/dirt. If I would drive this in winter, the salty roads would destroy my sills, so I had to fix them before the winter. I started cutting the front wheel well...















Should be good for coming winter!

Plans are to search for some missing parts, like the hood ornament, and to lower the car! I'm getting seasick like this!  :P
I will be looking on this forum for tips and tricks, still need to figure out how to lower the car properly.
I don't really like the cut-the-springs technique, but 30mm lowering springs will NOT be enough!
I have been looking into bagging it, as I have built airride into my last two beetles...
Ah well, we'll see what happens!

Thanks for watching,

Cheers,
Reinoud
« Last Edit: 17 December 2012, 02:56 PM by LosCreepers »
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adamb

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #1 on: 28 November 2012, 07:11 AM »
Looks sweet. What's the drum shaped object in the engine bay next to the battery?

arman

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #2 on: 28 November 2012, 10:28 AM »
Nice car Reinoud, but don't drive it wintertime after your welding efforts: nieuwe roest!

Groet,
« Last Edit: 28 November 2012, 11:35 AM by arman »
1974 W116 450 SEL 340.000km
Black exterior (040), olive green velours interior (966)
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Tony66_au

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #3 on: 28 November 2012, 06:27 PM »
Not bad at all for a Euro 280!

You have a D jet car and if you are familiar with the type 3 VW fastbacks injection system then this will be familiar.

As for lowering?

Have you checked to see if you have hydraulic self leveling suspension on the rear or just springs?

Welcome to The Org too Reinoud!

oversize

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #4 on: 29 November 2012, 03:53 AM »
Those wheels will look great on your car!!  There's a green bagged W116 on Facebook and it looks pretty wicked!  A manual 280 would be lots of fun to drive and definitely worth putting in some cash n effort....  Good luck on your great project!
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NormW116

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #5 on: 29 November 2012, 05:02 AM »
Congratulation on the car! Looks great!

Our W116 is also a white 280SE manual. Good choice!! I also prefer driving manual cars in general. My 300SE (W126) is also a manual.

LosCreepers

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #6 on: 29 November 2012, 10:24 AM »
Looks sweet. What's the drum shaped object in the engine bay next to the battery?
Thanks Adam. There used to be a massive tow bar on the car, with a possibility to attach a brake line from the trailer to the car or something like this. I have never seen anything like this before, but I think the 'drum shaped object' was for power braking the trailer, there is a brake line going from the master cylinder directly to the extra master cylinder.

Nice car Reinoud, but don't drive it wintertime after your welding efforts: nieuwe roest!

Groet,
Hello Arman, thanks. I know driving it in wintertime will eventually destroy the car with 'nieuwe roest'... But I'm using the car for what it was built for: to drive it! I know a lot of people here will think I'm an idiot for saying this, but my '59 beetle is my 'showcar', not driven in rain/wintertime. This Benz will be driven every single day. ;)

Not bad at all for a Euro 280!

You have a D jet car and if you are familiar with the type 3 VW fastbacks injection system then this will be familiar.

As for lowering?

Have you checked to see if you have hydraulic self leveling suspension on the rear or just springs?

Welcome to The Org too Reinoud!
Tony, thanks. I'm not really familiar with the injection system on a Type 3 VW, we normally only do older VWs (pre 60), only carbed. The whole injection stuff is new for me, still have a lot to learn! I actually haven't checked if I have hydraulic self leveling suspension or springs, I do know I don't have an option on the car, so my guess would be springs.

Those wheels will look great on your car!!  There's a green bagged W116 on Facebook and it looks pretty wicked!  A manual 280 would be lots of fun to drive and definitely worth putting in some cash n effort....  Good luck on your great project!
Thanks! It is actually very fun to drive!

Congratulation on the car! Looks great!

Our W116 is also a white 280SE manual. Good choice!! I also prefer driving manual cars in general. My 300SE (W126) is also a manual.
In the Netherlands, automatics are for old or lazy people! Well, sort of. ;) I like to have control of the gears myself.
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LosCreepers

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #7 on: 29 November 2012, 11:14 AM »
I also have some bad news unfortunately. The first real problems with the Benz just began today. I have been driving the car for about 1000km now since I bought it, drives great. I was really happy with the car, until now...

Today I left the 'bodyshop', the place where my bug is parked and we work on our cars. 500m later I accelerated from a complete stop and shifted from 1st to 2nd gear. At this exact moment, a horrible rattling sound starts... Scared the crap out of me, so I hit the clutch and brake, the sound stopped immediately. I pulled the handle for the hood to open to see where the sound came from. When I took my foot of the clutch to push the parking brake, the horrible sound started again... After hitting the clutch again it disappears. I carefully drove the car for a bit, also when driving it, the sound is there when I release the clutch pedal.

I took the car back to the shop carefully, it still drives and shifts great, but because of this fecked up rattling noise I'm not driving it for another kilometer... I am trying to figure out what this is, do you guys have any idea? At first I thought it was the thrust bearing, but when it is the thrust bearing, it should make a noise when the clutch pedal is pressed, not when it is released... As the thrust bearing is not supposed to be moving/rotating, when the clutch pedal is released...

Anyone any idea?
I thought Mercedes was a good brand, high quality stuff, etc.
Never had any problems like this with my cheap VWs...
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Squiggle Dog

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > problems just started...
« Reply #8 on: 29 November 2012, 07:49 PM »
Nice car. The plaid "povo" interior with manual controls is rarely seen in my country and it's a nice look. Does your car have a 4 or 5 speed transmission?
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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > problems just started...
« Reply #9 on: 29 November 2012, 08:58 PM »
Anyone any idea?
I thought Mercedes was a good brand, high quality stuff, etc.
Never had any problems like this with my cheap VWs...
Of course Mercedes is a good brand, but like anything 30+ years old, stuff breaks, and the cars are much more complicated than a VW.

I would check the flex discs on the tailshaft in case one has disintegrated, and anything else behind the gearbox.

Tim
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LosCreepers

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > problems just started...
« Reply #10 on: 30 November 2012, 12:18 AM »
Nice car. The plaid "povo" interior with manual controls is rarely seen in my country and it's a nice look. Does your car have a 4 or 5 speed transmission?
Haha, yes I wish it had power windows, it is a bit of a cheap version of an S-Class. But hey, at least the povo interior looks like it's new! Only the floor mat on the drivers side is a bit torn, can you see from the picture if this is the same colour brown as the full brown leather interior? I would like to have a nice replacement mat for it.

The car has a 5 speed transmission, one of the few options my car has (others being 'Version for France', 'Elimination of warning triangle' and heated rear window). I really hope that there's nothing wrong with my gearbox, because finding a replacement 5-speed would be a pain in the anus.

Of course Mercedes is a good brand, but like anything 30+ years old, stuff breaks, and the cars are much more complicated than a VW.

I would check the flex discs on the tailshaft in case one has disintegrated, and anything else behind the gearbox.
Haha, I know it is, it's just that I have been driving my 'cheap' 53 years old VW with all original engine, gearbox, etc. a lot more than this high-end luxury car, without anything breaking down all of a sudden.  ;)

The tailshaft is not moving/rotating when no gear is selected and the car is not moving, right? Because that's when I have to most noise, with a parked car and taking my foot off the clutch while the engine is running. This can't be the flex discs on the tailshaft right? I have never had any car with a tailshaft before, so please correct me if I'm wrong.  ;)
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NormW116

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > problems just started...
« Reply #11 on: 30 November 2012, 01:24 AM »
Sorry to hear about the problem. Hopefully someone here will have some ideas for you.

5 speed manual is indeed very rare! Ours is a 4 speed. Would the box be the same as in the later W126 models... in case you do need to find a replacement... worst care scenario of course.

littlefin

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > get low.
« Reply #12 on: 30 November 2012, 01:39 AM »
Today I left the 'bodyshop', the place where my bug is parked and we work on our cars. 500m later I accelerated from a complete stop and shifted from 1st to 2nd gear. At this exact moment, a horrible rattling sound starts... Scared the crap out of me, so I hit the clutch and brake, the sound stopped immediately. I pulled the handle for the hood to open to see where the sound came from. When I took my foot of the clutch to push the parking brake, the horrible sound started again... After hitting the clutch again it disappears. I carefully drove the car for a bit, also when driving it, the sound is there when I release the clutch pedal.


Hi LosCreepers & welcome to the forum!

Sounds to me like your clutch is on it's way out and I would get it looked at as soon as possible before it gets worse.

This is the downside of manual transmission I am sorry to tell you  ;D Automatics have no clutch to fail !

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to check the condition of the clutch when you buy an older car - with 250000 km on the clock I would say a new clutch is probably to be expected - especially if it's done a lot of town driving. 

It's never nice when your 'toys' let you down though  ;)

I have a similar povo interior with manual windows in my 280SE, but manual cars are quite rare in the UK
 
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oversize

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > problems just started...
« Reply #13 on: 30 November 2012, 03:06 AM »
Yes I'd say it's the clutch too....  It's really just a maintenance item and should be straightforward.  Sounds like you got real lucky with that VW!
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LosCreepers

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Re: LosCreepers' 1974 W116 280SE > problems just started...
« Reply #14 on: 30 November 2012, 03:30 AM »
Sounds to me like your clutch is on it's way out and I would get it looked at as soon as possible before it gets worse.
I bought an old car like this to drive daily, because I want to do everything myself. I'm just a poor student, so I will start to look into it tonight myself by taking off the tailshaft and looking how the gearbox is mounted to the car. Is there any place where I can find a step by step guide for dismounting the gearbox / installing new clutch?

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to check the condition of the clutch when you buy an older car - with 250000 km on the clock I would say a new clutch is probably to be expected - especially if it's done a lot of town driving. 
I know, this is the price I have to pay when driving in style in an old car like this. I just hope it's just the clutch and not the gearbox... Just ordered a clutch + thrust bearing, should arrive next week...

Yes I'd say it's the clutch too....  It's really just a maintenance item and should be straightforward.  Sounds like you got real lucky with that VW!
Well, I'm familiar with VWs, so I know what to check and how it should feel. As I said, this is my first Benz! For the interested people here, I just sold this beetle after a complete nut and bolt restoration, except for the paintwork and interior (I like the original paint and used look!). This is how I restore them, this is how i drive them!  8)
'59 Volkswagen 1200 Deluxe
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'74 Mercedes-Benz 280SE