Author Topic: Looking for my first 116  (Read 450 times)

7176mmy

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Looking for my first 116
« on: 06 September 2018, 06:25 PM »
Hi all!
Here I'm finally seriously looking for my first 116...
I'd prefer European version but they are rare here in N.America so most likely it's gonna be the american one with subsequent headlights replacements etc.
I'm in the mood to invest more money into the purchase itself rather than still the money plus a lot of time and efforts after the purchase.
That's where I need some experts advice:
1977 Black 450SEL 4.5L. 77Kmiles (undocumented). Dealer asks $16K. Exterior/interior looks excellent (by photo). But I'm not sure about the underneath. A couple of pix:
http://images.gatewayclassiccars.com/carpics/PHY/340/340kkkkk.jpg
http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/images/carpics/PHY/340/340iiiii.jpg

The rust. How bad is that? Are we looking at just some metal-brush cleaning/sealing or the rust may cause some major headache after the purchase?
Thank you all! 

 

daantjie

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #1 on: 06 September 2018, 07:45 PM »
Welcome to a fellow Canadian!
I looked at all the pics. Interior looks very nice. Lots of surface rust on the undercarriage which may point to deeper rust like on the rocker panels, trunk and wheel wells.
Prices are rising for nice 116's but I think you can do better on a private sale.
PPI is highly recommended. Take it for a spin even if it's just for a baseline to compare others to.
Why not get a 6.9 ;)?
Good luck in the hunt.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

Peter

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #2 on: 06 September 2018, 09:43 PM »
As Dan has said you need to determine how far the rust has gone but from the photos it appears to be mostly surface rust on the underside and a few weekends hard work should sort most of that. At least the dealer is being honest and posting photos of the rust, that aside it looks to be an honest and well kept example. Slightly overpriced but that is the usual practice for dealers. Good luck with the potential purchase  :D

floyd111

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #3 on: 06 September 2018, 11:39 PM »
16 thou is quite the bucket of cash. For that kind of money there should be a 3 month full warranty. In most EU countries (or all?) 6 months would be mandatory by law for that kind of purchase. Just saying.
I know sometimes people get lucky with used cars, but in my experience that is the exception, rather then the rule. You will be spending a lot more in the first year, depending on the amount of  miles driven, but maybe even on your first ride home.
I am all for better W116 market valuation, but I would say that with some effort, you may score the same car for 10000 less, elsewhere. That's 10 thou you can spend on a decent pallet of new parts. That way, at least you KNOW what new parts went in the car. If the mileage is undocumented, there's no mileage at all to consider. And even IF it were documented, mileage on an old car like this may not be of any importance at all. Age will have affected every part of the car. I would pay extra attention on the seats, with the spring units for the front now costing a small fortune, and the rear seat pad being NLA all over. Seat adjustment handles break off all the time and a full set of new MB tex also comes at a hefty price. As long as you don't have to deal with those expensive HPF parts, most other repairs could be quite manageable, especially if it's a K-Jet. In all cases, I would bring someone with a good eye for rust to assist you in making that decision. I thought I did my homework before buying and importing a W116 from Holland, with apparently very little rust. Turned out to be a completely rotten chassis underneath all the shine and glory, well beyond the scope of affordable repair. Had everything to do with me being the wrong person to judge these things, and my overseas assistant being of even less use, haha!

7176mmy

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #4 on: 07 September 2018, 08:39 AM »
you need to determine how far the rust has gone but from the photos it appears to be mostly surface rust on the underside and a few weekends hard work should sort most of that.
From my experience the rust looks fresh and thin, like a perfectly clean pampered for decades car was left to rust outside for a few months or so. But you never know till you poke it with a screwdriver.

7176mmy

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #5 on: 07 September 2018, 08:59 AM »
Prices are rising for nice 116's but I think you can do better on a private sale.
Yeah, the 16K is a bit steep, but condition condition condition)

Quote
PPI is highly recommended. Take it for a spin even if it's just for a baseline to compare others to.
I'd love to but the car is 1K kms away, so...

Quote
Why not get a 6.9 ;)?
Too modern :) I'd like the old school spring suspension.

daantjie

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #6 on: 07 September 2018, 09:07 AM »
Never be in a rush to buy, especially an old Benz! It's like "marry in haste, repent at leisure"...
Keep an eye on local Craigslist. Here in Vancouver I've had 2 local 450SE pop up both @ around 11-12K and they both looked very tidy.
I can send the links if you want.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

7176mmy

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #7 on: 07 September 2018, 09:19 AM »
16 thou is quite the bucket of cash. For that kind of money there should be a 3 month full warranty. In most EU countries (or all?) 6 months would be mandatory by law for that kind of purchase.
As far as I know in the US all classics for export sold AS IS(

Quote
I know sometimes people get lucky with used cars, but in my experience that is the exception, rather then the rule. You will be spending a lot more in the first year, depending on the amount of  miles driven, but maybe even on your first ride home. I am all for better W116 market valuation, but I would say that with some effort, you may score the same car for 10000 less, elsewhere. That's 10 thou you can spend on a decent pallet of new parts. That way, at least you KNOW what new parts went in the car.
Right. I'm ready for the after-sale expenses, but still looking for the best I can afford.

Quote
In all cases, I would bring someone with a good eye for rust to assist you in making that decision. I thought I did my homework before buying and importing a W116 from Holland, with apparently very little rust. Turned out to be a completely rotten chassis underneath all the shine and glory, well beyond the scope of affordable repair.
Thanks, rust is primary concern. 

7176mmy

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #8 on: 07 September 2018, 09:26 AM »
Keep an eye on local Craigslist.
Thanks, I do, but a decent classic car is RRR in Canada. Damn salt! :)

daantjie

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #9 on: 07 September 2018, 09:27 AM »
These ones will be a good reference:

SWB:

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/cto/d/se-55k-miles/6681794531.html

Earlier DJET, also SWB model (try and avoid DJET, LOTS of headaches):

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/cto/d/1973-mercede-450-se/6653617659.html

Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

7176mmy

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #10 on: 07 September 2018, 09:33 AM »
Can we rest assured the paint is original if the molding decals (golden) are in place: http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/images/carpics/PHY/340/340z.jpg

7176mmy

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #11 on: 07 September 2018, 09:54 AM »
These ones will be a good reference:
Thanks

Quote
try and avoid DJET, LOTS of headaches
Thanks! DJET was installed on early models before 1976, right?

daantjie

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #12 on: 07 September 2018, 10:00 AM »
Generally yes, but I think KJET officially came out in 1973.  Best to make sure in the engine bay visually as DJET ran until 1979.  All 6.9's only had KJET, yet another reason to get one ;D
« Last Edit: 07 September 2018, 10:43 AM by daantjie »
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

s class

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Re: Looking for my first 116
« Reply #13 on: 07 September 2018, 11:54 AM »
All early 116s, from series introduction, had djet apart from the carb model obviously.  The first 6.9s in late 75 had Kjet, and the change over from djet to Kjet occurred around there for all other 116 an 107 variants.  Kjet was then the only injection system offered until the end of series production.

If I remember I will look up the specific date of changeover from djet to Kjet for each 116 variant.

'76 6.9 Euro, '78 6.9 AMG, '80 280SE, '74 350SE, '82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro , '81 500SL