Given the technological limitations of the time, if you designed this car what would you change? As im not mechanically minded, ill say its the manual seat tilting dials. they should be on the opposite side of the seat. Lumbar adjustment would be nice, maybe power assisted drop down disco ball at the back seat disco ball with MB logo, sharpened star for potential theives, thats all i can think of at the moment
Quote from: gf on 26 February 2011, 07:05 AM
the manual seat tilting dials. they should be on the opposite side of the seat.
Are yours towards the doors or transmission tunnel? Generally speaking, early cars are towards the door and later cars, say 76 onwards have theirs towards the transmission tunnel, and later ones than that have dials that are much easier to grip. So there's a possibility to swap front seats out to ones with dials where you want them. FWIW, when it comes to tilting back rests, if not for electrics, I just wish they had levers rather than dials.
I don't mind that my 350 is devoid of some luxuries like power windows, power antenna etc, but if there's a couple of things I wish it did have it would have to be a true overdrive gear that would give better fuel economy on the highway. I reckon all of the models could do with a better final drive ratio. The other thing I miss but would like is some adjustability in the steering column too.
Oh, I'd also like separate armrests for both front seats.
Drain points on body work.. basicaly engenier out common rust points..ie maybe a different sunroof tray material...
I'll go with Calvin's suggestion, and I think the seat back adjusters are second. Other than that, I wouldn't change anything, not even the gearbox.
Tim
I'd give the V8's 4spd boxes or at least shorter 1st gears!
cup holders...big ones!
joking
Seven speed automatic and less overall noise - ESP wind noise.
Bill
An invisibility cloak when going past police at high speed :P :P :P
My wife would ride in my '78 280SE if it DID have cup holders!
Hemersam
Funny... no cup holders, but there are copious ashtrays!
I think my only changes, besides maybe an over drive gear that Oscar mentioned would be more storage cubbies in the front cabin and different placement of the fill cap and no groove where the upper chrome pieces abut the roof.
I find going from my truck to the 116 a little different because I use the little storage areas quite a bit. I think if I never used them in the truck I probably wouldn't miss them in the car, though.
For the fill cap, get a lot of rain that falls sideways. I found water in there when I opened the lid twice when getting gas.
And the chrome pieces are a nice touch, but I don't like that they catch twigs, acorns and leaves. Not found rust there, despite the debris Ive cleaned out.
In a perfect world, I'd never have to park near / under a tree.
Quote from: adamb on 26 February 2011, 06:10 PM
An invisibility cloak when going past police at high speed :P :P :P
Brilliant :D
Quote from: thysonsacclaim on 26 February 2011, 08:37 PM
Funny... no cup holders, but there are copious ashtrays!
Cup holders v ashtrays. Reminds me of robertd's goldie with a his and hers ashtray for the front. Gives you an idea that instead of the ashtrays cup holders could be conveniently hidden in the lower dash behind a nice strip of zebrano.
But I echo the need for cup holders. Don't know how many times in the past I've got a drink with a meal say from a drive thru and forgot to upsize to a bottle rather than a can or cardboard cup. Doh!! And they just don't sell take away coffee in a container with a screw top.
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/2434-1/IMG_0030.JPG)
Ash trays were the cup holders of the 70's, and I don't think beverage consumption in cars would have been accepted in anything other than a purpose build stretched limousine, or a 600.
Actually, I wonder if 600s had cup holders?
Tim
Very true. It's still common to not eat or drink in some countries while in a car. I knew a couple exchange students from Japan and they found it appalling to eat while walking down the street or driving in a car. Very interesting that it wasn't too long ago and it was the same way in other places too
I'd specify a fully galvanised bodyshell. Although my own 116 has minimal corrosion issues, due to its sheltered life, rust is the biggest scourge of cars made before the 90's.
1) I think I would improve the acoustics of the interior so you could have a decent sound system, better speaker locations, larger holes, etc...
2) A passenger side electric mirror would be nice - actually in theory this is a possible mod using a mirror from a late 107
3) Deletion of the dreaded ACC as an option and have only the manual a/c system available with the possibility of having 100% recirc air for improved cooling - also a possible mod, I it did on my client's green 6.9 featured here, you just need to fabricate a flap to cover the surrounding area of the fresh air box that lets 20% outside air in.
4) Improved breathing for the Solex 4A1 carb on 280S's - if you look at how the air hose is routed it gives me the impression that MB could have done it better.
Joe
Redesign the heater air mixing flaps so they do not jam when the feeble foam fades away. Agree there could be more effort to increase sound deadening material in keeping with the S class status.
G
- Decent side mirrors (and electric)
- Properly designed electric windows
- More/better sound deadening
- A mirror and light on the driver sun visor (really scraping the bottom of the barrel here)
- A linear fuel gauge
- Whatever is it that's going to fail in my gearbox in the next few years and require a rebuild (can't remember what part it is but my mechanic has had a washer machined to fix the problem in other w116s)
- Chromed metal, not anodised aluminium around the window trimmings
And as others have mentioned:
- seat controls
- overdrive
- better designed drainage channels
For a 30 year old car, that's an incredibly short list.
Oh yes... I'd kill some of that road noise too
Agree with Joe's 3rd point, the fact that you cannot fully shut off the outside air coming in annoys me intensely, why the hell did'nt they think of this? Surely they had traffic jams in Germany in the 70's? I don't drive mine in the city, especially during summer cause you want the a/c on but then you're choking on fumes at the same time. grrrr.
Apart from that, it seems we are in fact the ones who are at fault, it's just that more people need to take up smoking, then the car would suit perfectly.. :-\
Yes, there is a recirc flap... the A/C needs to be in "DEF" mode though (blue knob turned clockwise all the way, or at least into the segment at the end.
Tim
The thing i would change is on the right hand drive cars the bonnet (hood) release lever is on the passenger side. >:( It's a small thing but very annoying.
I think id agree with just about all the points made. And yes it is a really short list actually!Now if we could just post this to mercedes maybe they could remanufacture this car with modern saftey features. Id bet thered be quite a few buyers waiting. Maybe its performance would be lousy compared to a modern equivalent. but the buyer would know exactly what theyre getting and thats worth alot!!!!!!
And its really interesting the whole cupholder/ food/ciggarette thing and how its changed. 20 years ago i remember a teacher saying whos dad lets you eat in the car? only 2 or so kids put their hands up in the whole class.A decade ago half the smokers would smoke in a car- not anymore! at least in australia
Maybe make the heater fan a tad more accessible ?
i would change nothing
greetings : johnny .
Tim,
Def mode on the manual a/c system still alows 20% of outside air in. The flap in the air box does not close the opening completely, it is designed that way from the factory. It is possible however to modify it so it does give you 100% re-circulating air.
Tks,
Joe
Mine is fine but galvanizing the body would have been a smart production stop. If only.... there would be many many more W116's in the world!
Manual transmission for all markets...
Euro bumper kits (for US version) if you felt like giving the finger to the safety agency...
Aluminum hood and trunk option for non diesel W116
Different steel wheel size options
Larger fuel tank option
Maybe a race kit for the carb models, i.e. Intake manifold, maybe a double Solex setup, that would be cool...
Robert
I think a re-release of the w116 today would be awesome,
modern engine & drive-line range - the 6.9 would be replaced with the AMG 6.2 litre v8 ;) etc..
interior to remain true to the style but incorporate modern creature comforts and technology etc.
Only problem is, reality - the car would never pass any current safety or crash tests and to do so it would be so heavily modified that it would look nothing like the original version and be half made out of plastic. Probably would look as ugly as sin too :)
SO the next best thing is, buy one and do it yourself ::)
MT, so you don't think MB will be working on a retro look 116 for release soon, like the beetle, fiat, mini etc.?
Nor do I !
koan
Most definitely an overdrive to maximize gas mileage.
Faster power windows.
Slightly larger outside mirrors. (stretching here as well)
Crash tests: I bet this car would hold a candle and then some with today's standards. There is more STEEL on this care than most today. I feel safer in this care than I do most modern versions, especially the small compacts like the corolla, Honda, ect..
i'm pretty sure a 30+ year old w116 would still out perform the cheap Chinese cars today we are getting, such as the "great wall" and other such things flooding our market.
at the end of the day dollars talk and they're cheap and they sell - safety isn't really a consideration until its too late.
- 3 x Weber DCOEs for the 280S instead of that THING it comes with (one reason I don't own one)
- Door pockets that take a Melway and still let U use the window cranks (no fast glass, please)
- space to mount a decent pair of speakers (eg, 6" or 6x9 Pioneers) in the rear parcel shelf without having to vandalise it
- paint that doesn't decomose in the Australian summer
- compulsory MB tex interior (this alone is worth buying a Merc for)
- exhaust system that doesn't rust out every three weeks and with the crazy restrictors removed (can do it yourself - but why not from factory???)
- cruise control and radar detector as standard
- Nardi steering wheel as option
- 4/5 speed manual box as option on all models (imagine a 6.9 with a ZF!)
- stainless steel brightwork instead of anodised aluminium (if they wanted to save weight, how about starting on the seat frames?)
- alloy rear suspension arms on all models
- no rear self-levelling
- all coil suspension on all models - the 6.9 system is very good while it works, but costs SO much to renew every 5 years or so, and complicated
- rear sunblinds as standard (very rare option), probably more rare than a 350SE with manual box
- umbrella holder, NOT cup holder (coffee should be taken quietly in a cafe on Lygon street; like Tuco said in the G the B and the U: "if you have to drive, drive, don't drink coffee!"
- three baby seat mounts in the rear (there is only provision for one in the middle, and some folk including some Merc owners don't care about ZPG). Babies are lots of fun, and so is making them!
- ditch the dodgy pneumatic central locking (that and the ga-ga placement of the first aid box prevent fitting decent rear speakers and enough child restraints); even Fords have simple and reliable electric central locking with full-time manual override
I can have most of this (except the deletion improvements) if I just buy a W126, but note: no lovely chrome bumpers, friend. Think I'll buy one anyhow, and then I can have perfect daily transport, and still have a W116 to drive for pleasure. I prefer not to modify cars (except to improve performance and amenity with OEM options), but I can live with the nuisance options my W116 came with (why fit SL rear suspension to a short wheelbase model, for heaven sake?)
Quote from: powerglide on 12 March 2011, 08:20 PM
I can have most of this (except the deletion improvements) if I just buy a W126, but note: no lovely chrome bumpers, friend.
This is my feeling on the matter. I do not think our cars are perfect, especially given 40 years of development but there is nothing I would be willing to give up for any of these "improvements".
Quote from: powerglide on 12 March 2011, 08:20 PM
(why fit SL rear suspension to a short wheelbase model, for heaven sake?)
Why not? I have self levelling on my SE. Why would it be any more practical on an SEL?
Tongue firmly in cheek, Mforcer! Like saying what I would like better in my wifey: of course it's "don't change anything!". It's possible in another world I could come home to a Vogue house and be fed gourmet dinner every evening, and be completely miserable. I would rather stay delirously in love with my wifey who is the most wonderful chick on the planet, thanks. Same with the W116. It's just a fun topic.
Quote from: powerglide on 13 March 2011, 01:33 AM
my wifey who is the most wonderful chick on the planet, thanks.
So you're the lucky one! Mine must be second most wonderful..... in my street. It's a short street too :o
I'd like to add one more item to the wishlist. I wish W116's had no flare nuts at all.
None on the brake lines, none on the suspension. Instead, all fluid joints would be banjo fittings.
Banjo fittings suck balls - I dont like the idea of having to keep 50,000 variations of Cu crush washers on hand 8)
Hehe, must admit I went and bought a bunch of different Cu washers from an engineering store ages ago only to find I've hardly used any yet because they've usually been the wrong size. I've reused a whole bunch in the past and today on the one banjo fitting on the SLS valve. One was copper, the other aluminium.
be nice if they were all the same size and metal ;)
I've been meaning for years now to obtain new Cu washers for the banjo fitting on my suspension pump but never remember to get around to it.
I just deal with it dripping under load.
The heater/air is my gripe but the rest i like or can live with happily. And if they have to have a heater with lots of complicated vacuum and moving parts then make it so you undo a couple of clips and slide it out so you can just put it on the bench and work on it.......... without screaming and yelling and increasing blood pressure and losing blood and and and.....
And maybe a vacuum lock system that doesn't ever leak!..... oh and window regulators that don't bend slightly and misalign the gears so they strip..... better stop thinking or will start thinking about selling it!
I think some of the complaints are slightly unreasonable given that the cars are 30+ years old and they have well and truly passed their designed life cycle.
Quote from: powerglide on 12 March 2011, 08:20 PM
- 3 x Weber DCOEs for the 280S instead of that THING it comes with (one reason I don't own one)
- Door pockets that take a Melway and still let U use the window cranks (no fast glass, please)
- space to mount a decent pair of speakers (eg, 6" or 6x9 Pioneers) in the rear parcel shelf without having to vandalise it
- paint that doesn't decomose in the Australian summer
- compulsory MB tex interior (this alone is worth buying a Merc for)
- exhaust system that doesn't rust out every three weeks and with the crazy restrictors removed (can do it yourself - but why not from factory???)
- cruise control and radar detector as standard
- Nardi steering wheel as option
- 4/5 speed manual box as option on all models (imagine a 6.9 with a ZF!)
- stainless steel brightwork instead of anodised aluminium (if they wanted to save weight, how about starting on the seat frames?)
- alloy rear suspension arms on all models
- no rear self-levelling
- all coil suspension on all models - the 6.9 system is very good while it works, but costs SO much to renew every 5 years or so, and complicated
- rear sunblinds as standard (very rare option), probably more rare than a 350SE with manual box
- umbrella holder, NOT cup holder (coffee should be taken quietly in a cafe on Lygon street; like Tuco said in the G the B and the U: "if you have to drive, drive, don't drink coffee!"
- three baby seat mounts in the rear (there is only provision for one in the middle, and some folk including some Merc owners don't care about ZPG). Babies are lots of fun, and so is making them!
- ditch the dodgy pneumatic central locking (that and the ga-ga placement of the first aid box prevent fitting decent rear speakers and enough child restraints); even Fords have simple and reliable electric central locking with full-time manual override
I can have most of this (except the deletion improvements) if I just buy a W126, but note: no lovely chrome bumpers, friend. Think I'll buy one anyhow, and then I can have perfect daily transport, and still have a W116 to drive for pleasure. I prefer not to modify cars (except to improve performance and amenity with OEM options), but I can live with the nuisance options my W116 came with (why fit SL rear suspension to a short wheelbase model, for heaven sake?)
Done, here is most of it :)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n281/carl308888/Mercedes-Benz%20280%20SE%20W126/280SEW126comcour2010.jpg)
But seriously, there isn't much I don't like.
-The one serious criticism I have is that they are just plain short geared. Even a 280 could pull a 3.25:1 back end I think. To do 3,350 rpm at 100 km/h is simply insane.
Minor annoyances:
-would love the central locking to work from the passengers side door with the key
-would love XWX's to cost $100 each instead of $500. I know this is not MB's fault, but I have three cars that use them. Grrrrrrrrr
That's about it,
Happy days.
I've already made a couple modifications! I was scared of making these modifications because other MB owners would more than likely call it blasphemous, but, according to the owner's manual of the 450 SEL, an MB owner can customize their vehicle to fit their needs (it's somewhere in the book. If I had it with me, I'd quote it in full instead of verbatim with page numbers).
Because I have to constantly drink liquids while I'm driving and got tired of my soda pop bottle rolling all over the place, I bought one of those cup holders that you put in between the seats and marine velcro strips so that way I could secure the cup holder without making holes and be able to remove it in case of a spill, etc. Of course, there wouldn't be a spill since I only allow travel mugs and soda bottles. I still walk into the restaurant when I eat...it seems to keep the car clean.
Second, I had to update a few electronics. I got one of those HD Radio/Satellite/iPod hookup/cd mp3 player/bluetooth (so you can hook up up your phone) radios. I have also added GPS (not in dash version) to my car, but the only place I could put it was by opening up the ash tray and let it sit there. I didn't want to destroy the dash and I can't reach the window to set it up.
As for improvements, I wish my car had a mirror on the passenger side, cup holders (front and back), and a better designed heater/ac unit that only a rocket scientist can figure out (2 pages in the owner's manual on how to work the a/c - 2 pages!). Better gas mileage would have been a plus, but it was the sound of the V-8 that won me over. One accessory I wish I had was a bug guard on the hood (bonnet) to prevent gravel from hitting the windshield. If the car had more room between the ground and the undercarriage, then I wouldn't be scraping the car on those large humps no matter how slow I go over them (<5 mph). It would have been nice if there were ash trays with lighters in the back seat area (still thinking 1970s technology and the fact they would have never guess the ever increasing set of electronics that we have now).
As for the other stuff, I'm amazed daily of the technology in the 1975 450 SEL: electric windows (working), electric sun roof (working), cruise control (not working), central locking system (not working), fog lights (working), automatic antenna (working), electric rear window defroster (working), child proof windows (don't care if it works or not as long as I can roll them down), and intermittent windshield wipers (better be working: I depend on them!)
Carl888: good one! A W126 is on the wish list, but do I sell the 350SE or the 280SE? - hard one. Promise to wifey I sell one before buying another. And she is asking for a MANUAL shift! - where do I get one of those? Seen manual W116s, but never seen a manual W126. Have been thinking of converting the 350SE, but the tranny runs perfectly, so why throw that away? Maybe a Cosworth - they go pretty well and there are some manual versions around.
This has been a good post as it shows just how good are these W116s that have survived. Most gripes amount to "my car is 35 years old and some systems are failing", or "why does it not have all the bling that comes with a 2010 Korean bean can?" There are also a few things that did not convert to RHD all that well, so...? You get space, around 1bhp per cubic inch, massively good brakes and handling for a 2 ton car, seats you can sit in all day and still feel your feet, and a ride that lets the ankle-biters sleep as you power slide around a shallow curve in a gravel road. Oh, and 6.5" wide alloys light enough for wifey to change, and chrome bumpers, my lads - note always the chrome bumpers, two stackes high, no less: now there's real value.
On the side of each seat between the seat and door, there is some adjustment knob. The plastic handle is broken on both side of mine. When I had a W114, it had a plastic pull-start knob that broke off and I had to replace.
I think any of the handle/knobby things that could have been made out of durable steel or brass or something, should have been. Including the seat belt parts.
The glove compartments in these as well as the W114's always lose alignment with age. It would have been nice if there was a latching mechanism on the left and right sides of the lid, rather than at the center, to keep this warping from happening.
I would have changed the rust :)
I cursed all of the drain spouts the first time I saw them and the hidden rot they caused. Water should go around the car, not through it. I do think they designed the car to be self draining should someone decide to stick a fire hose in the sun roof. But the drains are the major reason for its rusting.
Made a light weight option. Hood, trunk lid would be aluminum skinned with stamped aluminum girders. The seat frames and rear subframe could also be aluminum, although the subframe would be cost prohibitive compared to steel.
was the technology available in the 70s to construct a decent monocoque aluminum chassis that also performed satisfactorily in regards to safety ?
If so, it should of been done. given the cost of these cars new, the ultra soft mild steel they are constructed from is my #1 complaint. 8)
Quote from: Major Tom 6.9 on 12 May 2011, 04:51 PM
was the technology available in the 70s to construct a decent monocoque aluminum chassis that also performed satisfactorily in regards to safety ?
"Satisfactory safety" and the amazing safety these are known for are two very different things. I prefer them as they are, though stainless steel would have been nice... ;)
I thought of one other thing I'd improve - the damn gas cap cover. It's design leads to inevitable chipping up of the paint from fuel nozzles. If I ever repaint my car, I'm going to have to carry a rag with me everywhere I go to stuff in between the lid and the nozzle every time I refuel, unless I can think of some sort of clever guard that will not show when the lid is closed.