I want to drive my 116...

[1980sdga]

I'm a travel nurse so I make a lot of my $$ driving. Lately it's been about 800 to 1000 miles a week.  Good thing I enjoy driving 

Anyway, I got my 2nd 300SD for a road car but I've been driving the Caddy while I sort out the MB.  I went out of my way to get a low mileage car so I wouldn't have to do a ton of work on it and here I am waiting on parts and doing a ton of work on it  Not hard work, but frustrating trouble shooting work.

I keep having to remind myself that the engine/drive train is solid but I'm getting discouraged sorting vacuum and electrical problems.  I was hoping I wouldn't have to dive in this deep, this early *sigh*

I'm hoping these cars aren't "weekenders" because my plan was to DRIVE IT and DRIVE IT HARD...

So, was I foolish to think that I could get a 30 year old car and expect it to be reliable?  Will it ever be as reliable as a modern econo-box?

[Big_Richard]

will it be as reliable as a modern car ?

No.

most modern cars made nowadays go through there entire 5 year warranty periods with little to no trouble or expense other than regular servicing.

a 30 year old car will always have occasional issues, its a fact of life which cant be avoided.

[calvin streeting]

most modern cars made nowadays go through there entire 5 year warranty periods with little to no trouble

then 5 years and 1 day they fall apart completely.. hahah..

one way to make it slightly econimical is to by a good one, and keep upto date with service's and fix problems asap, and never by another car.. did this for 10years on a w123, but saving for a wedding killed that one.

[BWalker82]

Hang in there SD!  I know entirely what you mean.  Here, a week after I made the trade for my 300SD, I sit waiting for it to come back from the mechanic with new rear bearings.  And as soon as it gets back, It's going to have to turn around and go back for a new steering box.  Then I need to repair the brakes, adjust the valves, replace engine struts, et al.

You will, more than likely, never have 100% of the car working 100% of the time... unless you've got deep pockets.  That's just the way old cars are, especially Euro.  You have, however, a powertrain that is known to tackle 1 million miles with ease... How many Buick's, Ford's, or even Porsche's have a reputation for that?

Perhaps the issues you're running into are just as a result of putting the car back into full service?  Stick with it and eventually you'll figure it all out... and the little things that don't matter will just blend in to the background.

-BW

[Papalangi]

My sunroof just started leaking, the front and read window seals are shot, the temp is controlled by a ball valve and only two windows work.  I still drive it daily, the drivetrain has been bullet proof, it starts every time and I just drove it to Port Ludlow from Seattle and back without a hitch.  Even averaged 15MPG over that tank which is pretty good for me.

I think it takes a willingness to either ignore the defects or categorize them as not that important right now when taking on a car nearly as old as my wife...  Either that or I am as lazy as she hints me to be.

Michael

[jbrasile]

1980sdga,

A 116 can be  pretty much as reliable as a modern car, but let's do a fair comparison and take a few things into account:

By modern car do you mean a "brand new" car, or something with the same mileage as your 300sd? That's the catch when doing these types of comparisons.

Compare your 30 year old SD to a 30 year old Toyota Cressida for example... do you even see those around anymore? Don't get me wrong, the old Cressidas are super tough but not as well engineered or built as our 116's so once they break, they REALLY break and you just throw them away, just like any "modern" econo-box, after the warranty expires and 5-6 years go by, problems will be so expensive and difficult to fix that they will just be recycled, I say that of new MB's too...

My first MB was a 79 300SD, I bought it in 1992 from Auto Stiegler in Los Angeles, it was a trade in. I paid $9800.00 for the car back then when the going price was 3500-4500, why did I pay double, almost triple? Because the car was immaculate, had a complete service history, only 1 owner from new and eventough the mileage was 156k, it was super reliable. I drove it for  7 years, put another 150k on it and maintained at a dealer by the book. What I am trying to say here is, you must buy the absolute best car you can if you intend to have a 116 that can be used as daily transportation as you would  with a "modern" car, and  make sure you follow the service recommendations to the letter. Having said that, let's not forget that a 116 was a very expensive vehicle when new, and the cost of servicing/repairing it properly no matter how old it is,  is directly related to the value of the car when new. After the 1st or 2nd owner, in almost 100% of the cases, people start to slack off on maintenance, repairs and care so we (the insane people who love these cars...) inherit decades of neglect and end up as frustrated as you are now.  

Don't give up though!!! After this initial stage you will see that the car will respond well to your TLC and things will start coming together.

When getting a 30 year old car, Mercedes or any other, you have two options:

1) Buy the most sorted and expensive car you can making sure the premium you are paying is actually worth it - this is the ideal scenario...

2) Buy the best "you can afford" and spread out the cost of bringing the car up to "modern" reliability/cosmetic standards over a few months or years.

So it's basically pay now or pay later. Let me give you a couple more examples:

The Mercedes-Classic Center had a super low mileage 300SD for sale a couple of years go, the asking price was $50k if I am not mistaken, but you know what... it was worth every penny! Why?, because it was like buying a brand new 79 300SD in 2010! Would that car be as reliable as a modern car, absolutely!

I believe they still have an incredible 83 300D Turbo there for sale. I think the asking is 25k for that one... again worth every penny because it needs nothing and if you service/repair it properly it will last another 30years easy and be as reliable (if not more) as any modern car.


What I am trying to say is that it is impossible to ask that a 5k dollar car that cost 25k when new 30 years ago be as reliable as a modern car right off that bat, you can make it that way but it takes, time, money and most importantly, patience!

Don't give up and set your standards to a level you are comfortable with taking into consideration your love for the car, if you don't factor that in having these great old MB's will never make sense or be a pleasant experience.

Take care,

Joe

[Tony66_au]

I gave up on new cars in 2006 when I handed back my company car and walked away from white collar work.

I went looking at new cars and newish cars under 5 years old (As they last a bit longer in Oz) and when it came to the economics of the whole thing I decided to buy what Americans call a "Beater" and we call an old Bomb.

My first purchase was an 89 Ford falcon, 3 speed auto on dual fuel for $1200 with 127'000 km and I had it for 5 months before sending it to scrap.

My second purchase was an 85 Volvo 240 wagon manual and it was a nice car to drive and economical but a total poverty pack without working Air Con, cost me $500 on ebay and about $1200 to get roadworthy and registered and over 2 years and 160'000 km it cost me maybe $4000 in repairs and servicing, tyres etc.
This car was killed by a falling gum tree.

My 3rd purchase was a 2 owner 1992 Ford Fairmont Ghia as I wanted  little luxury and it was $500 from a mate I worked with who was anal in the extreme about fixing stuff and the car was immaculate with a mere 56'000 km and FULL history and provenance.

2 years and 172'000km later and it was becoming more of a pain to repair than it was worth and she currently sits in my front paddock having failed me miserably, as a 17 year old car at the time it broke stuff faster than I could repair it for the high mileage I was adding purely driving the thing as i would any other car.

So now we were driving our 84 Range Rover and she was doing just fine with minimal cost apart from fuel and 5000 km oil changes but id decided to buy another Mercedes for use as a daily driver as my first Benz (300SEL) had been incredibly good to me and the hunt was on.

I found on ebay a 1987 W124 230TE (M102 2.3l), did research and bought the thing.
She was pretty rough body wise and there was a long list of stuff that didnt work but the trip home (200km) sold me on Benzes all over again so I committed funds to basic repairs and tune items and $800 later she was roadworthy and transferred.

I neglected to mention that she had nearly 400'000 km on the clock when i bought her and Ive added nearly 60'000 to that original figure.

Central locking doesn't work, heater fan is noisy, drivers seat has issues, interior lights don't work, she has at some stage been hit hard front and rear, she has some rust below the rear windows, the clearcoat is flakey and Ive replace a flex disk, fluids many times and a few sets of tyres but she still goes well and returns mid 9 km per litre of 91 octane fuel.

I am NEVER buying another daily driver that doesn't have a 3 point star and my next daily will be my 450SEL at which time the wagon will get some TLC.

Dollar for dollar these Benz cars make more sense than anything Ive driven, they eat the miles and beg for more, are safe as hell and are amongst the best handling and driving cars Ive owned.

Stick with the Benz, spend some money and enjoy.

Tony

[1980sdga]

I definitely don't have deep pockets but they are a little deeper after selling my Cadillac CTSV (The wife drives an STS which I've been driving since I started working on the Benz)

No car payment, lower cost insurance, better fuel economy. Well, better economy when it hits the road 

I had to take the STS for about 500 miles this week and I wished I had been driving "MY" car.  I enjoy the Benz. The purity of it, the lack of gizmos. It's also a really comfortable car to me! It just feels "right". The old school dash lights are super cool, the way the visors tuck in when flipped up, the visibility... You can't see sh!t out the back of a modern Caddy.

I knew I was going to have some issues but the issues I'm having weren't things I'd envisioned    Vacuum line sorting is just drudgery to me. Unbolting stuff is more my speed 

[WGB]

Buy the best you can afford and then get it fixed properly.

Even the best thirty year old car will need all it's rubber-ware replaced.

Once everything is fixed it's not hard to keep it that way.

Bill

[another sad 280s]

i've decided when it comes to the vacuum, do it once and do it right. after years of beating my head against the wall i wish i'd followed this advice. pull it all, test the hard lines once, replace ALL rubber components and one way valves, even if you think they're fine. at least in one day you'll fix years of suffering, if only i had done this

[1980sdga]

I think I have most of it worked out    AC works, engine shuts off, door locks work! Trunk lock too!  The only trouble I've found is that the system bleeds down after about 30 minutes and the locks stop working 

Since sooo many systems branch off the same circuit I need to fish through them and see if I can find the problem.  I'm guessing that it's in the door actuators themselves but it could be bleeding through another system... Maybe a strategically placed one way valve...

I feel pretty good about everything working. It would be nice if It could be 100% but this may be close enough.

[jbrasile]

1980sdga,

Isolate the systems one by one in the engine compartment:

1) ACC
2) Door Locks
3) Reservoirs

Test each one separately to see which one looses vacuum, I bet you will find the power locks are the culprits.

The door lock diaphragms are available from Performance Analysis and are fairly inexpensive.

You need to test the lock and unlock functions individually. If you find one or both leak, replace all 12 (4 per door) diaphragms for piece of mind in the future. The trunk and gas tank vacuum elements unfortunately must be replaced as an assembly, there are no diaphragms available. The switch valve on the driver's door can also leak and should be tested all by itself.

Good luck and have fun!

Joe

[1980sdga]

Thanks Joe and thanks for the pep talk this afternoon!  I've isolated all the circuits and everything is working now. It held vacuum with no leaks for over an hour so I'll call it done    (I had a single check valve in the wrong position)

Amazing car.  I had no idea that the trunk and gas lid locked and unlocked the way they do    I'm serious, it's an amazing system for the days before little fob chirpers!  Lock and unlock everything from one location. Creepily quiet as well. My daughter said it's like a phantom... Yea, these old cars are worthy of attention.

I have a weird steering wheel alignment problem that I'm sorting out and I'm going to button it up.  My steering wheel is off-center and it's related to the ignition switch somehow  I figure I may as well tackle it while I'm in there...

I still have no idea what the fender reservoir is for and how it ties in 

[jbrasile]

1980sdga,

It was my pleasure!

AHA.... now I understand which reservoir you are talking about, that one is for the climate control, the one in the trunk is for the door locks.

This system has been around since the 60's, its engineering elegance is remarkable considering there is nothing mechanical at work, only vacuum.

Your steering wheel may have been removed in the past and re-installed incorrectly, there is a lot of discussion here in the forum with regards to the correct procedure of aligning your steering wheel. Alignment shops (I'd say most of them) will re-position the wheel to cover their incompetence in setting the toe correctly so don't be surprised if that is your case as well.

Tks,

Joe

[1980sdga]

I'm getting it.  I have a few pieces of the puzzle to work out yet.  I swear, I didn't want to believe that the reservoir was for the AC because someone has monkeyed with the vacuum lines behind the dash and left it out of the system    Gotta be.  Now I just need to figure it out.

My wheel is actually off center from the dash, as if the entire wheel was slid over to the left about 3/4"    I loosened the bolts figuring I'd just slide it back over to the center but the ignition switch is holding it in place.  A battle for another day...