Author Topic: How does a 116 compare to a 108?  (Read 8568 times)

Nutz

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #15 on: 03 May 2007, 02:05 AM »
I bought a '72 280 4.5 as a project but never got around to it.  :'( I really did like the styling better than my W114 250 of the same era.

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #16 on: 03 May 2007, 03:35 AM »
It must also be remembered that the W108's suffer from cronic rust problems, I believe much more so thn the W116.
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WGB

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #17 on: 03 May 2007, 04:02 AM »
And that 108's were muuuch harder to work on for what are quite simple jobs on a 116.

In the next ten years rusting and timing chains will reduce the 116's to a smaller number of cars and the well looked after will start to look good.

Bill
 

gregdeklerk

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #18 on: 03 May 2007, 04:09 AM »
And that 108's were muuuch harder to work on for what are quite simple jobs on a 116.

In the next ten years rusting and timing chains will reduce the 116's to a smaller number of cars and the well looked after will start to look good.

Bill
 

and appreciate in price!!

OzBenzHead

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #19 on: 03 May 2007, 05:40 AM »
My comparisons:

My W108 280SE auto ('70) is not as smooth, overall, as my W116 280SE auto ('79), but considerably faster off the mark - and that's just after both had been serviced and tuned. I put the snappier acceleration (at the bottom end) down to the lack of torque converter and partly to the fact that my 108 always starts in first (although that drops out at about 5 mph). (Many insist that there's something wrong with the tranny if it consistently starts in first; well, that's how it's been since the day it left York Motors, and no-one's ever suggested "fixing" it.

My 108 has 840,000 km on the clock; my 116 a mere 260,000 km.

My 116 certainly handles better in fast bends, but is just as incompetent on unsealed roads as my 108.

Both cars have similar highway-cycle fuel consumption.

The driver's seat in my 116 was too low - even with the adjustment raised to max. - so I installed 1" square tube between the seat mounts and floor; the 108 seat needed similar treatment. (Probably nothing wrong with either of them, but I've always liked to sit high and not have to worry about my haemorrhoids scraping the tarmac.)

I have driven a friend's W109 6.3 and was amazed that its handling (air bags and all) outperformed that of my 116 - very chuckable.

My W111 220Sb is far livelier off the mark than either of the other two - despite its considerably smaller engine.  It is, however, about 300 kg lighter, and very low geared. It thinks it's a rally car and demands to be driven like one, hooning around the twisty country goat-tracks in these parts.

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #20 on: 03 May 2007, 05:53 AM »
That is a very good question ! But, I can't answer it. It depends on the day. If I want to be a poser, I take out the 300b. If I am pissed off at something, I will take the 6.3 and give it a thrashing - it likes that ! I don't really know to be honest. It would be one of the 6.9's, the 6.3, or the 300b, but I can't rate them in preference. I also need to spend more time driving the 6.9 because I really haven't driven them at all. Not easy from Turkey ! The second 6.9 get's delivered tomorrow, so will get a report from my brother the custodian. If he had to answer the question, there would be no doubt - the 6.3. He thinks it's a hoot ! If forced to sell some of them, it would be the finnie, 280 CE, 220s, 6.9's, 6.3, 300b in that sequence, but that more reflects values than my driving preference.



Which one do you prefer Craig???[/b][/size]

oscar

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #21 on: 03 May 2007, 06:33 AM »
Craig, when do you come back to Aus?  It seems you've been in Turkey for ages.

Also, is the 220seb a coupe?  I love that shape if it is and I was disappointed to hear your not too thrilled about it.  Although, I suppose someone could have the most attractive car but it'd be pointless if it wasn't enjoyable to drive.  I do still think they're eye candy.
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CraigS

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #22 on: 03 May 2007, 07:58 AM »
I've been here for 9 years now, so it won't be any time soon ! I do however make about 4 trips a year to Oz, so the cars do get driven.

The 220 SEb is only a sedan. If it were a coupe, it would certainly be more collectible and I'm sure enjoyable to drive. Then again, if I was to get a coupe, it would have to be a 300 SE, with the air suspension.

Craig, when do you come back to Aus?  It seems you've been in Turkey for ages.

Also, is the 220seb a coupe?  I love that shape if it is and I was disappointed to hear your not too thrilled about it.  Although, I suppose someone could have the most attractive car but it'd be pointless if it wasn't enjoyable to drive.  I do still think they're eye candy.

oscar

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #23 on: 03 May 2007, 08:24 AM »
Well at least you get to come back often. ;)  I had no idea you were that permanent over there.  I've been waiting for your avatar location to change to "The sunshine state" or something similar.
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CraigS

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #24 on: 03 May 2007, 03:03 PM »
No. When I moved to Turkey, I sold my houses in Melbourne, so I can't really call Melbourne home anymore. My brother lives in Brisbane, and has 8 or 9 of my cars stored there or in a shed not far from his place, so hence the reason why I tend to head to Brisbane more often than Melbourne now days. I still visit Melbourne, Sydney and Perth, and check out the other 5 cars in Melbourne and drive them when I am there. Not ideal, but what can you do ? I will probably end up back there one day, so this is my personal superannuation plan. Wise investment ? Who knows, but having pulled my investments out of the stock market 2 weeks before the 1987 crash (and converted it to USD at the same time), I haven't been back in the market since, so where else to put your money, other than in something that can give you pleasure. Some choose art, or other investments - I prefer the cars. What I really should do is to sell most, if not all of them, and buy something really collectible, but then I think that if it becomes too valuable, you would be too scared to drive it, and this way, I get to choose what I want to drive.

bahnstormer109

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #25 on: 04 May 2007, 03:16 AM »
i really enjoyed driving a friends 108 280SE that got pranged and given to me for parts. it was smooth and responsive and it was a $500 dunger still drove fantastic.

my 109 having the air suspension has far better handling than my 116. you dont have to slow down for corners, just turn the wheel and put the boot in, zips around like its on rails. its a very fun car that feels sporty. being a 3.5 its also revvy. the 450 116 feels much more "serious" and sedate. more of a cruiser than a thrasher.

the 108s/9s do drive differently to a finnie. ive driven a coupe of finnies and they are very much old cars and drive like old cars especially as most of them have drum rear brakes. i would not recommend a finnie as a daily driver. the 108s feel more modern to drive than a finnie. i dont know what they did exactly but it was more than just a "re-skin".

if your thinking of getting a 350SE 116 then perhaps compare this to a 280SE 3.5 108 rather than the 6cyl. the 108 3.5 has a 4 speed auto which suits the motor better than the later 3 speed in the 116, which is ok in a 450 but the 350 just doesnt have enough low down grunt to pull it.

as daily driver though the 116 scores the points due to little features like integrated aircon, a centre console, heated rear window, wing mirrors you can adjust from inside the car etc etc.

a nice 108 will make a great comfy and safe daily but the 116 just has a few more features that make life easier. on the highway they both feel the same, around town the 108 feels smaller, tighter, more wieldly and chuckable. the 116 feels wider, heavier, with more body roll.
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James R

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #26 on: 04 May 2007, 08:38 AM »
Is a 6.3 faster than a 6.9 ?
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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #27 on: 04 May 2007, 01:44 PM »
I agree with the majority of your comments, except this one. My #7114 has the Euro engine and that thing revs like no other 6.9 I have seen. It will instantly rev to 6,000 (no rev limiter rotor fitted). Still not quite as free as the 6.3, but very close. It will be interesting to compare #6230, which was delivered in Australia (as opposed to export delivery).

I find that these engines are superbly balanced as a blip of the throttle will instantly send the tacho needle up to the 4000 mark-very much like an Aston Martin engine. The 6.9 engine will not do that. Also, for some reason, with standard exhausts, the 6.3 emits superb exhaust music. Not so the 6.9.


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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #28 on: 04 May 2007, 02:16 PM »
In relation to some of Styria's comments, yes, a 6.3 can be a right pain in the arse. The car was not designed for the M100 engine, and as such, everything in the way of ancilliaries are placed in compromise positions.If you can do the basic servicing yourself, it is OK, but through a dealership it is expensive no doubt. As they say, for a 6.3, it is 6.3 times the cost.

The fuel injection is a wonderful piece of engineering. The problem is that everyone expects them to work perfectly - even when they are 37 years old. That is just not possible without regular maintenance - like any other component. The FI works pretty hard all the time, and if oil levels are unchecked, there can be some serious problems. Cams also wear, and are almost impossible to find now. I forget exactly what a new injection pump costs, and yes, they are still available, but I think it is in the range of EUR 18,000 (A$28,500) so I don't really expect anyone is going to go out and buy one any time soon. This was one of the things I had reconditioned when I first bought the car, and while it was not cheap, it was also not exhorbitant - Less than $1500 with some additional work done, and this was with them removing and reinstalling it. Finding a specialist is the tricky bit, but they are still around. The second major area is the air suspension, but again, if you can do the work yourself, should be able to replace the 3 valves for less around $1,000 with reconditioned units. Yes, they are a pain to install, but patience is a virtue. The main valve rarely causes trouble, and the air bags themselves have a failrly long life span. For anyone buying a 6.3, these are the two main areas in my opinion that you need to concentrate on, and budget for if there is no history of them being repaired, overhauled or replaced. If unable to do the work yourself, you should budget for at least $4000 on top of the purchase price, and is surely a negotiating tactic if the seller cannot provide evidence of recent work. You would also need to budget for fuel consumption. They do like to be driven hard, unlike a 6.9, which will accept moderate use. There is no comparison between the two. The 6.3 feels like it wants to run and run, whereas the 6.9 is a much smoother beast and doesn't feel like it has the same power. It doesn't, as while the HP is somewhat similar, the 6.3 has greater torque, and it is this that makes it seem to want to go hard.

There are other areas as Styria mentions, such as engine mounts, which are extremely expensive, and crticial because of the torque, so again, if these have not been done, they will need to be. When new, the torque put out caused the steering box mounts to be literally torn from the chassis, and a procedure was issued to install a reinforcing plate. Almost all would have been repaired during their warranty period, but it is essentail that the bolts are checked for tightness periodically. Other than that, the only other weak point on a 6.3 is the differential, and it is not recommended to wheel spin through left hand turns, or to put the car into reverse when the automatic choke is on i.e when the revs exceed idling speed. One tip here is to always reverse into your garage or parking space when you come home, so that you don't need to use reverse when the car is cold.

s class

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Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
« Reply #29 on: 06 May 2007, 09:03 AM »
Craig and Stryria, you guys have done a great job comparing the 6.3 and 6.9, and in particular providing some more insight into the 6.3.  To me the 6.9 is my dream car, but a 6.3 would be the final temptation of lust over reason.  6.3's are a LOT more plentiful than 6.9's in South Africa, and a reasonable one could be found without too much trouble.  It seems that ZAR140,000 (about AUS$25,000) would be the required sum.  Incidentally, that is similar to what a fair W140 S600 fetches here, and also incidentally, it is a 6.3 and a W140 S600 that are competing for second place in my heart, after a 6.9. 

It seems that 6.3's and S600's share the trait of being rediculously difficult to work on, and as a result neither is suitable for more than occasional use unless one is very wealthy.  I desire a 6.9 firstly as I think it would be the easiset and least costly of these three to work on and maintain, plus there is the issue of extreme rarity of 6.9's in South Africa.  I'm currently in the position of having space, funds, and spousal approval to buy a 6.9.  I would be foolish to pass up this opportunity.....

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