Forum

Garage => Test Drive => Topic started by: gregdeklerk on 02 May 2007, 07:37 AM

Title: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 02 May 2007, 07:37 AM
After our recent club meeting, it seems that 108's are very popular and their prices are on the increase. I know some of the members on this forum own 108's too. S class said he likes the exhaust tone of a 108!! I was wondering how these cars compare to the 116 as I am afraid that if I look for a 108 and buy it, it will compare poorly to the high standard of the 116.

I have driven a 280SE 108 for a couple of months and found it to be heavy on fuel!! I just think a late model 108 with double headlights and white wall tyres looks quite pretty!!

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Grant V on 02 May 2007, 07:49 AM
The W116 is indeed of a high standard. I think that you cannot really compare the two cars, becuase they're from two entirely different generations. The W108 is basically a re-skinned Fintail - the suspension arrangements are virtually identical, whereas the W116 has an entirely new suspension set up, and it shows.
The only "W108" I have ever driven was a 6.3, and the only W116 I have ever driven is a 6.9. I find the 6.9 to be light years ahead of the 6.3 in terms of driving comfort and ergonomics.
Each of these cars represents their own identity for their time and must be driven with that in mind.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: oscar on 02 May 2007, 08:17 AM
Each of these cars represents their own identity for their time and must be driven with that in mind.

Hi Guys,

Firstly I agree completely with Grant's statement above and it can be said again for exterior and interior styling, but I will compare the interiors and why I prefer the w116.

I think the 108 with Americana lights look great.   Externally they appear very attractive.

Though I think the interiors seem sparse.  Quite ironic for me to say so as many 108/9's have more internal options than my 350 or are on par.  I do like their double centre front armrests and chromed angled caps where the seat and backrest meet. 

A matter of personal preference, I'd rather the more modern look and feel of the w116 interior.  Modern dash, bulky door moulds, bulky steering wheel and prominent center console and gearbox tunnel.  The exterior of a w116, classy and sleek.

Never driven a 108, only sat in one.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 02 May 2007, 08:21 AM
They are very different cars.  the W116 feels like a modern car, the 108 can feel dated when you drive it.  Having said that, I love the feel of the 108.  Talking specifically 280SE, they should have smooth supple rides, engine is very quiet at idle.  Performance is considerably less than the 116 280SE.  Seating position is higher in the 108 - I always find I feel like a king sitting in one.  Love it.  But not to drive every day. 

Ryan
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Martin 280s on 02 May 2007, 08:58 AM
They are very different cars.  the W116 feels like a modern car, the 108 can feel dated when you drive it.  Having said that, I love the feel of the 108.  Talking specifically 280SE, they should have smooth supple rides, engine is very quiet at idle.  Performance is considerably less than the 116 280SE.  Seating position is higher in the 108 - I always find I feel like a king sitting in one.  Love it.  But not to drive every day. 

Ryan

When I drive my 108, I know I'm in an old car, it just feels vintage, set up high and proud, against low and sleak (W116). Off idle the sound of the M130 motor is music, it also feels a bit more spritely than the M110. My w108 is super spartan inside but still a charm. After giving it a much desevered overhaul I'd like it to be my daily driver.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: michaeld on 02 May 2007, 08:35 PM
Somewhere in Paris, France, I hope that Denis is reading this thread, removing his glasses, and saying, "This looks like a job for..."

Seriously, Denis knows his stuff, and I'm pretty sure he's written about 108s.  You might do a search for 108 by user Denis.  In addition to our other wonderful contributors, of course!

It seemed like Denis has driven or knew the story of about every car ever made, and should have written all the Wikipedia articles for Mercedes cars.

Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 02 May 2007, 09:59 PM
So if i pose the question 108 or 350SE 116, the answer will be the latter? I am getting itchy feet with no space in the garage!! :(
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: BC on 02 May 2007, 10:39 PM
Quote
I am getting itchy feet ...

Either you have tinea or you need to migrate?  ;D
Regards,
BC
BC really didn't write that - he didn't; it was someone else...
What BC would have said was - 'Migrate and you will have room for both'.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 02 May 2007, 11:23 PM
Quote
I am getting itchy feet ...

Either you have tinea or you need to migrate?  ;D
Regards,
BC
BC really didn't write that - he didn't; it was someone else...
What BC would have said was - 'Migrate and you will have room for both'.

So you are saying if I rub in some Lamisil, my garage space problem will be cured?
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: BC on 02 May 2007, 11:32 PM
Dear Greg,
Lamisil will cure only tinea. :(
Moving to Ozland may well cure the lack of garage space. ;D
There is an 'either' in the post that a sharp young attorney like you would detect. ???
There is a secret agenda on this forum to convince all 116 owners to migrate to Ozland and bring their cars. :o
I'm sure you have already sensed the existence of our fiendish plot?
It should NEVER be a question of 108 or 116. Rather, it should be a question of how many of each.
Regards,
BC
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 02 May 2007, 11:51 PM
Greg, a 350SE or a 108 is a personal choice.  Its not like comparing a Corsa to a Fiesta.  116 and 108 are different.  It depends what you want - modern powerful motoring like a 350 or classic style and class like a 108.

Ryan
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: WGB on 02 May 2007, 11:53 PM
Mercedes enthusiast a couple of years ago did a road test between a 6.3 and a 6.9 (Both original examples from the Mercedes Museum I think). The comments were that they were very different cars and that the 116 was a much more modern relaxing drive if less involving.

Bill
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Grant V on 02 May 2007, 11:55 PM
Greg,
I think you should consider what you want from the car and what it has to offer.
If you want someting older with it's own charm and character, then buy the 108. If you want something more modern, also with it's own charm and character, then buy the 350SE.
I enjoy driving my Fintail, but I know that when I start it up, it's going to be a slower, more gracious drive. When I'm in the mood for a bit of fun and feel like a hooligan, then I take the 6.9. So maybe you should buy the 108, so that you have someting to choose from to suit your mood.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 03 May 2007, 12:33 AM
I have the advantage of having cars from the '50's, '60's and '70's, so will outline my thoughts. This is going a bit beyond the 108/9 vs W116 debate, but may be of interest.

300b 1955  - This is a very big, heavy car, running on cross ply tyres. The engine is a 3Lt 6 cylinder that was originally designed for a fire truck ! It is the same engine as the 300 SL Gullwing and Roadster, albeit with twin carbs instead of fuel injection. It is a 4 speed manual column shift. It feels stately, and attracts a lot of attention. It is not fast by any means, it is noisy, especially when travelling at 70 mph - especially engine noise because of the gearing, but it drives very smoothly and steering (no power assist) is easy, especially at speed. Absolute road presence.

220s 1958 Hydrak - If you have never had the pleasure, and I use this term lightly, this is a very good car to drive. It will (almost) keep up with modern traffic, but the gear ratio's again make it labour a little. Very comfortable at 60 mph, and the brakes (drum) work extremely well for an old car. The hydrak takes some getting used to and you cannot leave it with a valet to park !

220 SEb 1962  Automatic  - I am not a great fan of this car, and I'm really not sure why I bought it. It doesn't have the character of the two previous cars, it isn't any more powerful than the 220s, and is to my mind, lacking in personality. Maybe I need to drive it more !

300 SEL 6.3 - One of my favourites. This is a no holds barred, hot rod in a brick shaped sedan. There is not a lot of sophistication about it - except for the mechanicals, but in terms of style, it holds it's own. The gearbox is harsh, the air suspension hard, steering is a little wayward, but that engine ! Accelerate a little hard, and it will kick down to start in 1st gear and you know you are alive. It has extraordinary handling and even though it feels like it would break away at any moment, it is always manageable. Enormous glass area makes you feel that everyone can see you.

450 SEL 6.9  - The difference between the two generations is chalk and cheese ! The W116 is sophisticated, quiet, modern, and you feel a lot more cocooned than in a 6.3. The engine is smooth, almost silent, the gear changes imperceptible and you feel as though you don't really need to drive it like a 6.3. It almost drives itself. The seats are more comfortable, and is generally a much more modern package - but not as much fun !

280 CE - I have always like the shape of the coupes, but there is no comparison to a 6.9. The 6 cyl engine is slow, especially when coupled with the automatic. It is more of a leisurely drive, and could never be considered sporty - even though it was designed this way. Being a W123, they are extremely reliable, capable of huge mileages, and generally feel bomb proof.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: michaeld on 03 May 2007, 01:54 AM
BTW,
FWIW, I have read that the 108s were more tempermental to maintain and harder to work on.

Anyone else on that?

Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Nutz on 03 May 2007, 02:05 AM
I bought a '72 280 4.5 as a project but never got around to it.  :'( I really did like the styling better than my W114 250 of the same era.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Martin 280s on 03 May 2007, 03:35 AM
It must also be remembered that the W108's suffer from cronic rust problems, I believe much more so thn the W116.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: WGB on 03 May 2007, 04:02 AM
And that 108's were muuuch harder to work on for what are quite simple jobs on a 116.

In the next ten years rusting and timing chains will reduce the 116's to a smaller number of cars and the well looked after will start to look good.

Bill
 
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 03 May 2007, 04:09 AM
And that 108's were muuuch harder to work on for what are quite simple jobs on a 116.

In the next ten years rusting and timing chains will reduce the 116's to a smaller number of cars and the well looked after will start to look good.

Bill
 

and appreciate in price!!
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: OzBenzHead on 03 May 2007, 05:40 AM
My comparisons:

My W108 280SE auto ('70) is not as smooth, overall, as my W116 280SE auto ('79), but considerably faster off the mark - and that's just after both had been serviced and tuned. I put the snappier acceleration (at the bottom end) down to the lack of torque converter and partly to the fact that my 108 always starts in first (although that drops out at about 5 mph). (Many insist that there's something wrong with the tranny if it consistently starts in first; well, that's how it's been since the day it left York Motors, and no-one's ever suggested "fixing" it.

My 108 has 840,000 km on the clock; my 116 a mere 260,000 km.

My 116 certainly handles better in fast bends, but is just as incompetent on unsealed roads as my 108.

Both cars have similar highway-cycle fuel consumption.

The driver's seat in my 116 was too low - even with the adjustment raised to max. - so I installed 1" square tube between the seat mounts and floor; the 108 seat needed similar treatment. (Probably nothing wrong with either of them, but I've always liked to sit high and not have to worry about my haemorrhoids scraping the tarmac.)

I have driven a friend's W109 6.3 and was amazed that its handling (air bags and all) outperformed that of my 116 - very chuckable.

My W111 220Sb is far livelier off the mark than either of the other two - despite its considerably smaller engine.  It is, however, about 300 kg lighter, and very low geared. It thinks it's a rally car and demands to be driven like one, hooning around the twisty country goat-tracks in these parts.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 03 May 2007, 05:53 AM
That is a very good question ! But, I can't answer it. It depends on the day. If I want to be a poser, I take out the 300b. If I am pissed off at something, I will take the 6.3 and give it a thrashing - it likes that ! I don't really know to be honest. It would be one of the 6.9's, the 6.3, or the 300b, but I can't rate them in preference. I also need to spend more time driving the 6.9 because I really haven't driven them at all. Not easy from Turkey ! The second 6.9 get's delivered tomorrow, so will get a report from my brother the custodian. If he had to answer the question, there would be no doubt - the 6.3. He thinks it's a hoot ! If forced to sell some of them, it would be the finnie, 280 CE, 220s, 6.9's, 6.3, 300b in that sequence, but that more reflects values than my driving preference.



Which one do you prefer Craig???[/b][/size]
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: oscar on 03 May 2007, 06:33 AM
Craig, when do you come back to Aus?  It seems you've been in Turkey for ages.

Also, is the 220seb a coupe?  I love that shape if it is and I was disappointed to hear your not too thrilled about it.  Although, I suppose someone could have the most attractive car but it'd be pointless if it wasn't enjoyable to drive.  I do still think they're eye candy.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 03 May 2007, 07:58 AM
I've been here for 9 years now, so it won't be any time soon ! I do however make about 4 trips a year to Oz, so the cars do get driven.

The 220 SEb is only a sedan. If it were a coupe, it would certainly be more collectible and I'm sure enjoyable to drive. Then again, if I was to get a coupe, it would have to be a 300 SE, with the air suspension.

Craig, when do you come back to Aus?  It seems you've been in Turkey for ages.

Also, is the 220seb a coupe?  I love that shape if it is and I was disappointed to hear your not too thrilled about it.  Although, I suppose someone could have the most attractive car but it'd be pointless if it wasn't enjoyable to drive.  I do still think they're eye candy.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: oscar on 03 May 2007, 08:24 AM
Well at least you get to come back often. ;)  I had no idea you were that permanent over there.  I've been waiting for your avatar location to change to "The sunshine state" or something similar.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 03 May 2007, 03:03 PM
No. When I moved to Turkey, I sold my houses in Melbourne, so I can't really call Melbourne home anymore. My brother lives in Brisbane, and has 8 or 9 of my cars stored there or in a shed not far from his place, so hence the reason why I tend to head to Brisbane more often than Melbourne now days. I still visit Melbourne, Sydney and Perth, and check out the other 5 cars in Melbourne and drive them when I am there. Not ideal, but what can you do ? I will probably end up back there one day, so this is my personal superannuation plan. Wise investment ? Who knows, but having pulled my investments out of the stock market 2 weeks before the 1987 crash (and converted it to USD at the same time), I haven't been back in the market since, so where else to put your money, other than in something that can give you pleasure. Some choose art, or other investments - I prefer the cars. What I really should do is to sell most, if not all of them, and buy something really collectible, but then I think that if it becomes too valuable, you would be too scared to drive it, and this way, I get to choose what I want to drive.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: bahnstormer109 on 04 May 2007, 03:16 AM
i really enjoyed driving a friends 108 280SE that got pranged and given to me for parts. it was smooth and responsive and it was a $500 dunger still drove fantastic.

my 109 having the air suspension has far better handling than my 116. you dont have to slow down for corners, just turn the wheel and put the boot in, zips around like its on rails. its a very fun car that feels sporty. being a 3.5 its also revvy. the 450 116 feels much more "serious" and sedate. more of a cruiser than a thrasher.

the 108s/9s do drive differently to a finnie. ive driven a coupe of finnies and they are very much old cars and drive like old cars especially as most of them have drum rear brakes. i would not recommend a finnie as a daily driver. the 108s feel more modern to drive than a finnie. i dont know what they did exactly but it was more than just a "re-skin".

if your thinking of getting a 350SE 116 then perhaps compare this to a 280SE 3.5 108 rather than the 6cyl. the 108 3.5 has a 4 speed auto which suits the motor better than the later 3 speed in the 116, which is ok in a 450 but the 350 just doesnt have enough low down grunt to pull it.

as daily driver though the 116 scores the points due to little features like integrated aircon, a centre console, heated rear window, wing mirrors you can adjust from inside the car etc etc.

a nice 108 will make a great comfy and safe daily but the 116 just has a few more features that make life easier. on the highway they both feel the same, around town the 108 feels smaller, tighter, more wieldly and chuckable. the 116 feels wider, heavier, with more body roll.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: James R on 04 May 2007, 08:38 AM
Is a 6.3 faster than a 6.9 ?
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 04 May 2007, 01:44 PM
I agree with the majority of your comments, except this one. My #7114 has the Euro engine and that thing revs like no other 6.9 I have seen. It will instantly rev to 6,000 (no rev limiter rotor fitted). Still not quite as free as the 6.3, but very close. It will be interesting to compare #6230, which was delivered in Australia (as opposed to export delivery).

I find that these engines are superbly balanced as a blip of the throttle will instantly send the tacho needle up to the 4000 mark-very much like an Aston Martin engine. The 6.9 engine will not do that. Also, for some reason, with standard exhausts, the 6.3 emits superb exhaust music. Not so the 6.9.

Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 04 May 2007, 02:16 PM
In relation to some of Styria's comments, yes, a 6.3 can be a right pain in the arse. The car was not designed for the M100 engine, and as such, everything in the way of ancilliaries are placed in compromise positions.If you can do the basic servicing yourself, it is OK, but through a dealership it is expensive no doubt. As they say, for a 6.3, it is 6.3 times the cost.

The fuel injection is a wonderful piece of engineering. The problem is that everyone expects them to work perfectly - even when they are 37 years old. That is just not possible without regular maintenance - like any other component. The FI works pretty hard all the time, and if oil levels are unchecked, there can be some serious problems. Cams also wear, and are almost impossible to find now. I forget exactly what a new injection pump costs, and yes, they are still available, but I think it is in the range of EUR 18,000 (A$28,500) so I don't really expect anyone is going to go out and buy one any time soon. This was one of the things I had reconditioned when I first bought the car, and while it was not cheap, it was also not exhorbitant - Less than $1500 with some additional work done, and this was with them removing and reinstalling it. Finding a specialist is the tricky bit, but they are still around. The second major area is the air suspension, but again, if you can do the work yourself, should be able to replace the 3 valves for less around $1,000 with reconditioned units. Yes, they are a pain to install, but patience is a virtue. The main valve rarely causes trouble, and the air bags themselves have a failrly long life span. For anyone buying a 6.3, these are the two main areas in my opinion that you need to concentrate on, and budget for if there is no history of them being repaired, overhauled or replaced. If unable to do the work yourself, you should budget for at least $4000 on top of the purchase price, and is surely a negotiating tactic if the seller cannot provide evidence of recent work. You would also need to budget for fuel consumption. They do like to be driven hard, unlike a 6.9, which will accept moderate use. There is no comparison between the two. The 6.3 feels like it wants to run and run, whereas the 6.9 is a much smoother beast and doesn't feel like it has the same power. It doesn't, as while the HP is somewhat similar, the 6.3 has greater torque, and it is this that makes it seem to want to go hard.

There are other areas as Styria mentions, such as engine mounts, which are extremely expensive, and crticial because of the torque, so again, if these have not been done, they will need to be. When new, the torque put out caused the steering box mounts to be literally torn from the chassis, and a procedure was issued to install a reinforcing plate. Almost all would have been repaired during their warranty period, but it is essentail that the bolts are checked for tightness periodically. Other than that, the only other weak point on a 6.3 is the differential, and it is not recommended to wheel spin through left hand turns, or to put the car into reverse when the automatic choke is on i.e when the revs exceed idling speed. One tip here is to always reverse into your garage or parking space when you come home, so that you don't need to use reverse when the car is cold.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 06 May 2007, 09:03 AM
Craig and Stryria, you guys have done a great job comparing the 6.3 and 6.9, and in particular providing some more insight into the 6.3.  To me the 6.9 is my dream car, but a 6.3 would be the final temptation of lust over reason.  6.3's are a LOT more plentiful than 6.9's in South Africa, and a reasonable one could be found without too much trouble.  It seems that ZAR140,000 (about AUS$25,000) would be the required sum.  Incidentally, that is similar to what a fair W140 S600 fetches here, and also incidentally, it is a 6.3 and a W140 S600 that are competing for second place in my heart, after a 6.9. 

It seems that 6.3's and S600's share the trait of being rediculously difficult to work on, and as a result neither is suitable for more than occasional use unless one is very wealthy.  I desire a 6.9 firstly as I think it would be the easiset and least costly of these three to work on and maintain, plus there is the issue of extreme rarity of 6.9's in South Africa.  I'm currently in the position of having space, funds, and spousal approval to buy a 6.9.  I would be foolish to pass up this opportunity.....
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 06 May 2007, 09:27 AM
I can't say that the W140 has ever been high on my list, but of course that 6lt engine is fantastic. The S Club had one on display at Techno Classica and it was a beautiful machine, but I'm not sure I like the boxy shape of the W140 in general.

I assume that import taxes to SA preclude imports, and this also helps to maintain the high prices.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 06 May 2007, 11:55 AM
Craig, W140 is a love it or hate it thing.  I currently use a S500L LWB as my daily driver, and that is already stretching practicality in terms of the cost and complexity of maintenance.  I'm told that a 600 is a large step up in terms of cost and difficulty.  I'm willing to believe it.  Personally I'm one of those who loves the W140.  The costs of maintaining them, and their built-in biodegradeability suggests that they will suffer much sharper and severe attrition than the 6.3's and 6.9's have experienced.  I've never driven a 600, but my 500 is already spectacular in terms of performance. 
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 06 May 2007, 10:15 PM
Not to worry, styria, that is how I took your postings. 
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 07 May 2007, 10:22 AM
Is this about what you have to pay in SA ?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MERCEDES-BENZ-V12-BULLET-PROOF-WINDOWS-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ320111714726QQihZ011QQcategoryZ72454QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Craig, W140 is a love it or hate it thing.  I currently use a S500L LWB as my daily driver, and that is already stretching practicality in terms of the cost and complexity of maintenance.  I'm told that a 600 is a large step up in terms of cost and difficulty.  I'm willing to believe it.  Personally I'm one of those who loves the W140.  The costs of maintaining them, and their built-in biodegradeability suggests that they will suffer much sharper and severe attrition than the 6.3's and 6.9's have experienced.  I've never driven a 600, but my 500 is already spectacular in terms of performance. 
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 07 May 2007, 11:01 PM
Craig, that would be the far top end of the price range considering that is an early pre-facelift car.  The early ones look better IMHO, but they suffer from a lot of chronic problems that were eliminated in the '95 revisions.  They don't say, but it really would need to be a LWB for that price too.

Its a common misonception - the windows are not bullet proof, they are double glazed - and hence they will stop an obliquely fired small calibre round - only the outer glass breaks - but they are certainly not bullet proof in the true sense. 

Ryan
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Grant V on 08 May 2007, 12:35 AM
Ryan,
I visited a friend of mine, who works for McCarthy Motors and he showed me two 'armour' S-Classes. One was a W140, which I didn't look at closely, but the other was a W220 S600 Armour, which I looked at closely. Both belong to the Government and the W220 was getting a windscreen replaced at a cost of ZAR200 000. The side windows must easily be 3-4cm thick and opening the doors takes quite some effort. The front outer layer of the windscreen had cracked, but the windscreen was probably also about 4cm thick. I believe that an amour W140 weighs in at about 4 tons and only has a max speed of 160 or so.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: s class on 08 May 2007, 12:42 AM
Grant, yes it is true that you do get true armoured 140's (And other s-class), but i was just pointing out that standard 140's are popularly misconstrued as having bullet proof glass.  My car has double glased side glass, a perfectly ordinary front windscreen.  The rear glass is also a laminated glass, basically the same way that front windscreens are made.  But its not bulletproof. 
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Grant V on 08 May 2007, 12:44 AM
Clear
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: OzBenzHead on 08 May 2007, 03:40 AM
I believe that an amour W140 weighs in at about 4 tons and only has a max speed of 160 or so.

And that speed, Grant, is probably what the vehicle's chassis, propulsion, and drive systems can manage between them.   Any sustained travel in excess of 80 km/h in such a vehicle will likely come unstuck thanks to tyre failure.

Regardless of all the hype and crap and speculation surrounding a certain late 'People's Princess', assuming even that there was no malintent and that the "stack" of the Fayed Benz was entirely "accidental", it could quite feasibly be put down to tyre failure.   Three to four tonnes of car traveling at sustained high speeds is gunna bust those bags faw shaw.   Poof!   (in a manner of speaking) ::)
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Martin 280s on 08 May 2007, 03:46 AM
I believe that an amour W140 weighs in at about 4 tons and only has a max speed of 160 or so.

And that speed, Grant, is probably what the vehicle's chassis, propulsion, and drive systems can manage between them.   Any sustained travel in excess of 80 km/h in such a vehicle will likely come unstuck thanks to tyre failure.

Regardless of all the hype and crap and speculation surrounding a certain late 'People's Princess', assuming even that there was no malintent and that the "stack" of the Fayed Benz was entirely "accidental", it could quite feasibly be put down to tyre failure.   Three to four tonnes of car traveling at sustained high speeds is gunna bust those bags faw shaw.   Poof!   (in a manner of speaking) ::)

And oh how the people cried on receiving the news of her death. My mother still lives in the UK and she told me it was as if everyone (except her) had lost a dear close relative. The wailing, bawling and sobbing :'( :'( :'(
The only thing that interested me was how serious the wreck was :o and what sort of impact that must have been. Yes, it was sad that Diana and the other chappie died but....that's another story.
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: OzBenzHead on 08 May 2007, 04:04 AM
Martin: I have been damned before today - and more than thrice - for suggesting that it was a tragic waste of a good car.

(Ducks into underground bunker ...)   ::)
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: AMG69 on 08 May 2007, 04:50 AM
Craig, fyi, my Euro 6.9 also spins to 6000 with ease.  I havent done it often out of fear but just watched it (in 1st obviously!!!!!) spin and spin past 5500!!  Changed up and was doing over 120 in 1st gear!!
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: Martin 280s on 08 May 2007, 07:33 AM
Martin: I have been damned before today - and more than thrice - for suggesting that it was a tragic waste of a good car.

(Ducks into underground bunker ...)   ::)

I think that we members of the 'alternative' society have different values! ;)
Title: Re: How does a 116 compare to a 108?
Post by: CraigS on 11 May 2007, 12:52 AM
I guess you also don't have the rotor with the limiter also ! Wonder how many still do. Last time I checked, they were NLA, but I see they have some here in Turkey @ EUR 40 + each.

Craig, fyi, my Euro 6.9 also spins to 6000 with ease.  I havent done it often out of fear but just watched it (in 1st obviously!!!!!) spin and spin past 5500!!  Changed up and was doing over 120 in 1st gear!!