Last month I wrote a post titled, "Which was Mercedes' best era? which - because of the many contributors - was very informative. But I dare say I was also a bit overreaching in my choice of topic. It's hard to look at a century's worth of cars and say, "This was the best one."
So I thought it might be interesting to narrow the focus of the topic down a bit. And I also thought that, rather than focus on the abstract and subjective issue of "quality" it might be more beneficial to simply compare feature sets and performance.
The w116 emerged from the w108, and was eventually replaced by the w126. It seems fair to say that each of these chassis had their place in the world, and each did things and solved problems that the other two chassis didn't.
I thought it would be interesting to compare and contrast these cars. What made the w108 great, and why did the w116 come along to replace it? What issues did the w126 address that "improved" over the w116? What did each respective chassis do better than - and not as well as - the other chassis? That sort of thing.
It is a lot easier - as well as more objective - to talk about the w116 vs. the w108 and the w116 vs. the w126 (and even the w108 vs. the w126) than it is to discuss cars from completely different eras decades apart from one another. The latter argument is entertaining, but it is also much more subjective. Since I know some of you guys have two - or even all three - of the chassis (or at least did at one time or another), we could have some very concrete, objective evaluations and discussion.
As for me, I just kind of stumbled into my 116 and fell in love with it. I know I love my 116, but I really don't know a whole lot about these other chassis that preceded and superceded the 116. I'd like to learn.
Great question Michael and I look forward to the responses from some of our friends here. I'll need to do some reading and thinking before I can contribute as I have no direct experience with the 108 or 126...
From my viewpoint, taking into account the keyword 'quality' the W116 is a better 'quality' product thn the W126.
Having owned a W126 - 500SE - in 83 to 85 [buying it new] and being an owner of a W116 - 450SE - since 2000 I have experieinces with both cars.
The 450SE is a 1976 model and since coming into my posession it has had a fair bit of work carried out. Initially there was a top end rebuild of the engine [bottom end was in good condition] and also new timing chains. The gearbox was reconditioned and also had new self levelling shocks. Over the years I relaced the original starter motor and altenator. The driver's door electric window actuator was also relaced. Other small items have been relaced due to minor accidents or vandalism. Another item was the relacement of the entire interior trim, originally I had brown velour trim, with a complete second hand leather trim interior.
In the two years of ownership of my brand new 500SE I has 4 window actuators replaced, the right hand top end replaced [due to a dropped valve] and a few other computer modules failed along the way.
Component quality let down the W126 in my opinion.
As for which car drives better, well of course its the W126.
Quote from: BAR on 04 April 2006, 05:32 PM
As for which car drives better, well of course its the W126.
In what way does the 125 drive better? I have never driven one?
Question 1 : what did the W116 bring that the W108 didin't have :
The W116 brought in the following big improvements :
a) rear suspension. the trailing arm arrangement gives more predictable handling and better ultimate performance than the old low pivot swing arm.
b) creature comforts. Although central locking, aircon, electric windows etc were available on W108/109, they were more common-place fitments on W116.
c) Modern styling. Today the W108/109 looks like a classic. The W116 almost passes as a car from recent times. This is somewhat opinion-related since many will claim that the W108/109 is THE timeless classic S-class.
d) better automatic transmissions. The torque converter systems used in the W116 are much smoother and have better driveablility
e) Safety. The W116 is still virtually unparalleled in occupant safety.
f) rust proofing. The W116, although rust prone my modern standards, it was a lot better than the W108.
g) the M110 motor. A brilliant, economical unit in euro form.
h) diesels. I'm not a diesel fan at all, but it must be stated that the W116 introduced the option of oil burning in S-class.
Thats off the top of my head for now:
Question 1 corollary : What did the W116 loose that the W108 had?
a) Styling. Many will cite the classic appearance of the W108. But personally I love the W116.
b) solidity. In my opinion W108 and W116 are equally solid, but some may disagree.
Question 2 : what did the W126 bring that the W116 didin't have :
The W126 brought in the following big improvements :
a) creature comforts - great many of them, although there could be reliability issues.
b) economy - the new generation engines especially the 3.0, 5.0 gen 2, 5.6 set new standards for economy in this class
c) timeless styling. The W126 really does still look modern - even to image conscious females.
d) rust resistance. The imperviousness to rust of the W126 is a remarkable improvement over the W108 and W116.
e) better balance. The new generation alloy engines were lighter, improving chassis balance.
Question 2 corollary : What did the W126 loose that the W116 had?
a) solidity/reliability etc - call it what you will, the W108/109 and W116 were hewn from solid granite. No merc since then is.
b) driver confidence. OK this is controversial. Its my personal feeling. I have driven the following W126's : 300SE, 500SE, 560SEC, 560SEL. I have always found the hanling does not inspire confidince to throw the car around quite like a well sorted W116 can.
c) exclusivity - what!? you say - well, no 6.3 or 6.9. PLus the W126 sold in such great numbers that you see them everywhere.
OK then my 3c worth.
Ryan in South Africa.
Wow, S class's post is a keeper! Great job on that one! I'm looking forward to 450SE's upcoming contribution.
BTW, you don't have to have ever driven all three cars to venture an opinion here. This is a discussion that anyone who reads the specs or even simply looks at pics of the cars can discuss intelligently. I for one would like to read up on the 108s and 126s to get a better sense of what led up to the 116 and what followed from it. During the 60's and 70's, the only way you could really tell one Mercedes model from another was often to look at the number/letter combination on the trunk: they were really cut out of the same mold. And while one chassis did visually differ a bit from another, there was a profound family resemblance [I think the 108s are just plain beautiful; and I for one like driving their direct descendant).
Read up on these Benzes, and tell us what you learn!
Hmmmmm. On the rock-solid reliability, I'm short on first hand experience with the 116. I do know that the 5 126s I drove last year had a very common litany of complaints - sunroofs, windows, front suspensions and climate controls being the primary issues.
I did recently post the concept of the 116 as the perfect alternate car on my Mark VIII club site, and got back quite a flurry of horror stories on 116 reliability and issues too expensive to justify repair. Front suspension, fuel pumps, and top-end engine being the most common - with USA climate control being mentioned as well.
So... I'm a bit skittish, but have high hopes. I must say my worry is that my MB experience may begin to parallel my Volkswagen days, with cars that are quite unreliable but inspire loyalty nonetheless. Time will tell.
I'm not sure on the styling - the 126s are quite lovely in long-wheelbase and SEC variants - my favorites being the 300 and 350SDL and the vaunted Euro motor 500 SEC.
(http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ss/sshemi426/af31.JPG)
(http://home.comcast.net/~brucem105/89SECAMG/rightreark.jpg)
However, the common problems with windows and suspensions and sunroofs - especially those sunroofs, as they are almost unrepairable, made me look toward the 116. That and price. A top-condition 300SDL or 560SEL still brings way over $6000 even for a good deal, and an SEC can easily top $10,000.
The 116 is a bit less.... distinctively old-school OR distinctively 80's modern.... a bit of a middle-child.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/014d2ba6.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/1975_mercedes_450_sel20019.jpg)
(I better include this one, since there are some new members) - my favorite 116 custom....
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/gallery5C116-036-22-001765.jpg)
But I'm drawn to it in certain colors, and think it is beginning to age well. Frankly, the 126 is probably best for "looks", because the 108/109 just looks frumpy from the rear.
(http://photos4.ebizautos.com/5730/892437_4_400.jpg)
So, I remain optimistic, and excited. 2 weeks from Friday - this car is coming HOME!
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/d987scd.jpg)
This in reference to John Hubertz's post above.
I'd like to see the link on your Mark VIII post re: w116s. It would make for interesting reading.
I've never heard the w116's top end criticized in my readings, but I can tell you that I was a little dismayed when I crawled under my car with a grease gun only to find no Zerc fittings to grease! :-[ My front end was rebuilt six years and 6,000 miles ago at a cost of over $3,000 - and still no Zerc fittings. It is a dreadful mistake not to have lubrication points in any car, IMHO. I wonder whether 108s and 126s have them.
John also points out something about "buy it now" costs, and yes, it seems that 116s are the "price bargain" of the batch today. A halfway decent example of a 108 or a 126 is going for far more than a 116; personally I think that 116s have been labeled as "smog-law-era cars from the 70's" and ignored. Our gain, I say.
Quote from: michaeld on 06 April 2006, 11:46 AM... lubrication points ... I wonder whether 108s and 126s have them.
Heaps of 'em on my 108 (and 111, 112)! More nipples than on a sow!
Hi fellows
I am going to try to answer this in a different way. I am not going to state what I like but give technical facts and what most people NOW think about these cars, here I go :
W108 - tech facts : the LAST classic Mercedes, complicated and virtually ancient - the king pins and the horizontal spring on the low pivot swing axle can be found in a 1934 Mercedes 500K !!! but the W109 with air suspension is incredibly taught on the road.
Impressions : this is classic, beautiful car, with much more personality than the W116/W126...and just look at the wood around the window frames !
W116 - tech facts : a HUGE leap in technology, more refined but looser road behavior (compared to a W109) much simpler to maintain - the birth of the modern S class cars...
Impressions : handsome, nice car but with americanized looks : too much chrome, the option list is much too long for a car of this price, plastic interior makes one cry compared to a W108.
W126 - tech facts : a small technical evolution over the W116, lighter, more economical engines that don't last as long as the W116 iron block engines
Impressions : handsome, cleaned-up look that is ultimately rather plain looking and while the plastics looks better, the stuff has found its way everywhere (!) minimal chrome with a decent option list and improved standard fitments - a Europeanized American car
W140 - an ugly, slab-sided, sinister looking car with bunkered thick windows...oh...OK this model is not on our list....
Denis
Paris, France
A note for Michaeld
If you like using a grease gun, get yourself a W108 in fact if you like intensive maintenance as a weekend physical therapy for an office job weekly stress get a W109 !!!
The best is the 300SEL with the M189 - the M-100 is too reliable (nothing to do on it) but the M189 (ahhhhhhh!!!!) with its distributor caps only made by goblins on February 29th hence the dreadfull cost...
A 300SD W116 is just a plain bore compared to the greaser W108/W109 :D
Denis
Paris, France
Denis,
THanks for that post. I have a lot of experience with W116 and W126, and I agree completeley with what you say. Very well put. The W108 I don't know so well, but agree that the W116 is technically a huge impovement. I have never driven a W109 but your comments about handling make me very interested in it.
OK I confess, I drive a W140 and I know them well. I agree it is very sinister looking, but that appeals to me. I also consider the W116 sinister/menacing, while the W126 is a lot softer - possibly that is one of the reasons it sold so well.
I can tell you this - the W140 is a super huge massive technical improvement over the W126. As you said, the W126 is really just a facelifted W116, and suspension-wise the W116 and W126 are nearly identical. So by today's standards, that trailing arm rear suspension used on W114/W115/W116/R107/C107/W126/C126 since 1968 is a little old.
The W140's multilink arrangement is just brilliant. Now remember I am a very slow to change conservative traditionalist. So for me to give that kind of praise - well - it must be good.
OK I accept that it is generally agreed that reliability has been on the decline, particularly since the mid 1990's, and I won't disagree. As much as I love the W140, it has zillions of very complex gizmos - like fly-by-wire throttle, with an electronic actuator on the throttle body that only lasts 100 000 to 150 000km or so and costs like US$1,000 to replace. The maintenance on the W140 is hideous. It will make a wealthy man cry. I am blessed to have a friend with full Bosch diagnostics computer so I can interrogate my car. The W140 has something like 150 servo motors for the electrically operated headrests, seats, automatic door closing, reverse antennae -the list is endless. And they all can (and eventually do) go wrong. Aaar-gg-eh.
My W140 is a 500SEL and the performance is spectacular. The quadcam V8 throws the 2200kg weight off the start-line such that its a mach for much lighter stuff like 330i BMW. It is huge fun. A real wolf in sheep's clothing.
Sorry. This is really getting O.T. - but since we are talking S-class lineage.
A couple of very interesting points emerge from the above posts that I thought I'd bring out.
First of all, Denis brings out the fact that the 108s/109s featured a superior "old world" build quality, examples of which were an abundance of wood trim, and a lack of plastics. As Denis describes it, this old world quality has been on the decline since the 108s/109s, with the 116s having more than the 126s, and on and on. It would be interesting (if my term "old world build quality" is appropriate) to see/hear about more examples of the old world quality that the pre-116 cars possessed.
The second element is the advent of "maintenance-free" mechanical systems that we (apparently) begin to see in the 116s. "Maintenance-free" has been on the dramatic increase since the 116s.
Now, it is this "maintenance-free" aspect that Denis was indirectly commenting on when he said
Quote from: Denis on 07 April 2006, 06:21 AM
If you like using a grease gun, get yourself a W108 in fact if you like intensive maintenance as a weekend physical therapy for an office job weekly stress get a W109 !!!
The best is the 300SEL with the M189 - the M-100 is too reliable (nothing to do on it) but the M189 (ahhhhhhh!!!!) with its distributor caps only made by goblins on February 29th hence the dreaful cost...
This is a significant factor to me. No, I do not carry a grease gun around in my pocket, ready to whip it out at any moment, but I believe in routine maintenance as a means of acheiving maximum life and minimum long-term cost out of cars. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it is my belief that one could get a lot more life out of a Zerc-fitted suspension by periodically using a grease gun than to passively wait for a "sealed" system to self-destruct.
At the same time, there IS something good to say about systems that require less maintenance than those that require more. There's a balance, isn't there? And the same goes for "technological improvements," which
in my thinking need to be genuinely reliable and long-lasting in order to qualify as "improvements." But this is coming from a guy who would actually prefer to roll up his own windows and adjust his own seat (thanks but no thanks to the 150 servos in your w140 seats, Ryan!).
The 116 offers some "old world" benefits, such as an iron blocks and solid body construction such as we've never seen in any cars since, while also (as Denis points out) offering a technological leap over the 108s/109s (such as a truly modern suspension). If so, the 116 is a "bridge" between the "old world" 108s and the "modern" 126s.
Out of curiosity, wouldn't it be possible to fit grease zerts into the ball joints etc of 116s? I'm sure going to find out....
Newer cars just drive better as the come along. The W108 is such a sweet car, I love mine, its quick! the car feels lighter then the W116 and almost as quick as my 6.9. I'm sure its faster then most US spec 450SEL's beause its lighter and more powerful.
The 6.9 feels more solid and a lot quieter. I does not have as much character as the W108 and certainly doesn't turn heads as much. But I love it. I love it most for the fact that it's such a street sleeper. I love driving on the highway and blasting past morons who occupy lanes that they shouldn't be occupying, in so called modern performance cars (and they just thought they got beaten by a Mercedes Diesel).
Make no mistake, the newer Mercedes Benz cars do just about everything better then their predecessors. Its a fact of life. Mercedes Benz brings cars out that are way ahead of their time. This is why they can afford to bring a car out every 7 years (11 years in the case of the W126). In 7-11 years, technology moves forward. My W210 has a 32valve v8, 5 speed automatic and is flawless. It beats any other car that I have driven including a W140 and the outgoing S430. It doesn't have as much character as my W116 or my W108 but it is an amazing car.
I'm here because I like the way that the Older Mercedes Benz cars look and drive, they still drive better then most modern cars. I am not knocking the cars, I love them. But progress is progress and while some companies get it wrong with the styling (like with the W140), they rarely make a car that is worse to drive.
Hello gentlemen
Hmm, zerc fittings on a W116...what for John ;) actually I thinkthat sometimes one need not bother maintaining an "expendable" part ? I do not think that expendability means cheap design - it is sometimes planned by design for good reasons. Look at the disks on our cars - they wear fairly quickly, along with pads - by design, for a reason and they do NOT cost a lot of money. In return, braking is or can almost always be efficient - braking is the aim, not part preservation.
Pour moi...I sometimes like greasing :P but you can also grease a worn out part and drive a dangerous car - say a W108 kingpin is well greased up and feels tight - is feels OK - but it may not be :o it can be full of rust mixed with some grease and eventually loosen dramatically at some point! very dangerous as one day you get instant sloppy steering in a curve.
My favorite greasing ? greasing the grease points on W116 doors with the neat little grease pump for such fittings. ::) Provides ever lasting door hinges.
The W140 - I happen to think that this model is a low point in the lineage. Certainly not technically but aesthetically - W124 styling thrown into a much larger car does not work. Besides, the multi-link suspension is clearly better than the semi-trailing arms design but you have to redo ALL the bushings to properly correct the effect of a few gone bad, with an accompanying amusing bill >:( Also, mechanics say that you need two persons to do the job making the W140 the first non DIY repair S-class :(
No my friends, the real problem with the newer ones is...good taste and may I be once sacrilegious to our religion by saying that the blokes know more about taste than the Germans.
I once sat for a whole hour in a 1966 Jaguar saloon 3.8S that was a mechanical repair nightmare but being offered at a dangerously low price. Why didn't I just run away ? Well, you sit there behind the steering wheel and look at the wood and the, what is the term in english, "patine" in french, the surface defects on noble materials- the "noble wear" of red dyed leather... to me, it is like Louis XV furniture or the wear of the stones at the entrance of the Reims cathedral...it has real magic.
And YES, the genius of some car builders is to generate this magic despite mass production !!! this, Mercedes-Benz excelled at in the past and maybe even in a few rare models of today, but not in most...
Denis
Paris, France
This is getting way off topic, but I thought there were a couple of interesting points from Alabbasi's and Denis' posts.
Alabbasi says new cars are driving better. This may or may not be true (I'm not claiming it is or isn't). One of the things you would need to test this hypothosis is a new "old" car. It is unfair to take a 30 year old car and compare it with a brand new car unless the 30 year old car has been recently fitted w/ a completely new suspension/shocks/springs/etc. Then you would be comparing apples to apples. Sometimes, also, our new technology provides some magnificent - but very temporary - performance measures; I'm skeptical as to whether these new complicated suspensions will stand the test of time.
This gets back to "greasing" and whether a Zerc-fitted "lube-her-yourself" suspension will outlast the newfangled sealed units if the former are properly maintained: my guess is "NO." I also think that a well-maintained and well-greased system will stave off rust and wear. Many manufacturers install Zerc fittings on OEM replacement parts; apparently Mercedes-Benz does not. I wish they did.
Denis then proceeds to raise another point in his last sentence: "magic." I've used the word myself in previous posts to describe my first drive in my 77 450SEL. It is a trans-logical term that refers to an enchanting, almost hypnotic experience in which an owner is transported to another mental and emotional zone when driving a particular vehicle. This experience creates a loyalty that transcends any other consideration (price, performance, reliability, etc.). You just want more and more of that feeling that THAT vehicle gives you.
Harley Davidson motorcycles come to mind. For years, Harleys were completely out-classed in every imaginable performance category. The only thing wrong with Japanese and European bikes - at least for Harley riders - was that they weren't HOGs (Harley Owner's Group). It didn't matter if other bikes were faster or better handling. Even their imperfections created devotion ("Harleys don't leak; they just leave their mark"). In the early 80s I had two motorcyles: an 82 HD Superglide and a Suziki GS 1100E. My 1100 was so much faster and better handling than my HD it was unreal; but on my Harley, I just wasn't in a hurry. I rode just to enjoy the ride. That's what "magic" means.
The 108s/109s certainly created an aura of magic. This forum is filled with people who will attest to the "magical ability" of the 116. Does the 126 create magic? I don't know.
Michael,
Mercedes and other manufaturers are striving to engineer better cars all the time. There is no doubt that each generation of S-class is technically more advanced and "better" on paper than the previous one. The down-side of this, is that as these cars asymptotically approach perfection, they are slowly engineering out the character. Another term of character would be idyosyncracy, or imperfection, or flaw.
Example : My W140 has multilink suspension with ABS and stability control. Even with 300hp, an inexperienced driver is safe because you just can't slide the rear end even on loose surfaces - I mean you can't even detect a hint of loosing adhesion. SO on paper this makes it better and safer than a W116. *BUT* - in my W116 I can FEEL the road. When I pull off at a stop street and accelerate firmly into a turn there is no sliding, but I can feel the outer rear trailing arm dipping and I can sense the spring loading up and if I listen carefully there is the sound of a bit of gravel spitting out from under the tyre - that is magic for my whole being!
Another example. When I brake in my W140, I feel almost disappointed because I know that even if I stand on the brakes in wet weather the car pulls up straight and stops in an unbelievably short distance - so again on paper this is better than a W116. But give me the driving feel of the W116 anyday. I can feel what the fron;t suspension is doing. And I can feel the front end loading up under heavy braking - certainly not a perfect car but it feels brilliant to drive.
OK. I think Michael summed it up well when he said "the 116 is a "bridge" between the "old world" 108s and the "modern" 126s."
W126's are sterilised W116's if you like, or alternatively junior W140's in training.
Comment about DIY on S-class. W140 really is out of reach for most DIY-er's even the hardcore ones. There are some nutters who can DIY W140, but they are rare. I have my learner wheels on at the moment trying to become one of them. Its actually interesting to learn about all the computer managment stuff.
Denis - the English word is "Patina" - surprise - and I'm sure you will accept that my W140 with its servos and computers doesn't exactly have any patina. My W116's seats do I think we can say.
Michael, I hear what you say about comparing 30 year old cars to new cars. But this is my comment. I have always lived with old Mercedes and have little experience with anything else. Last year my wife was shopping for a new car and so I thouroughly test drove Opel Corsa 1.6 and 1.8, Ford Fiesta 1.6, Hyundai Getz - and I was shocked. I could not believe how underpowered these small cars are. I felt terrified in traffic - they are small and I felt so exposed. Handling in this class of cars could be described in many ways, but I did not feel confident. In short, I alwats though that my 30 year old Mercs were better than modern small cars, the real shock was just how much better....
Cheers, Ryan in South Africa
Ryan: Quite apart from the intelligent and spiritied comments that I'm enjoying in this thread, there is another bonus ...
I don't visit car forums to learn about language - I use language forums for that. Words, and their assembly into good, readable construction are my stock-in-trade: I am a professional Verbivore.
But today, Ryan, you supplied my word of the day; my day is incomplete without a new word, so I thank you for giving my day an early start with:
as·ymp·tote: A line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may or may not intersect its associated curve.
asymp·totic or asymp·toti·cal adj.
asymp·toti·cal·ly adv.
Cheers
Gordon
I enjoy Ryan's posts as well, Ozbenzhead - even when they don't yield "a word of the day" for me! Thank you, by the way, for your enhanced defninition of "asymptotical" - I basically understood the word in layman's terms, but you offered an excellent definition for what is in reality a precise, technical term.
I am really looking forward to hearing from 450SE and Styria on the subject of this thread. These two are truly and deservedly some of the "big guns" on this forum, and their knowledge and experience of 116s, combined with their reading and consideration, ought to make for some fantastic posts.
One final note: I can't disagree with a single word you said, Ryan. There is really no doubt that advances in technology has brought improvements. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it so often seems that the improvements are always seeming to come at the expense of something else. All the computer-aided suspension componentry found on the w140 does allow for maximal handling, but - as you yourself acknowledged - it comes at the expense of "feeling" the road and of sky-high maintenance costs (and I also dare add, shorter mean time between failures). In fact, it seems like virtually ALL the advances in automotive engineering are coming at the expense of something else. I'm not so sure I like all the trade-offs, and it sounds like you aren't, either.
Even some of the marvelous features of today's cars are of questionable utility. Mercedes-Benz is currently offering a 600 horsepower car (for a mere $180,000). Now, such a thing is AWESOME for bragging rights, but is it even remotely practical for today's crowded roads? Perhaps Styria and Alabbasi can jump in here and tell me if a significantly lighter car with more than twice the horsepower of their 6.9s is a truly meaningful offering. I can tell you that it doesn't make much sense to me - particularly when, again, the tradeoff is more computer controls than NASA puts in their space shuttles (i.e. you need the assistance of a ton of high-tech electronic gadgetry in order to sufficiently maximize engine, exhaust, and transmission efficiency to get to 600 horsepower).
It seems intuitively obvious that there must be some point when you attain an optimization of all the things that one looks for in a car (performance, quality, style, reliability, durability, ease of maintenance - and for you green earthers, fuel efficiency and emissions). I think that today's elite cars are offering incredible performance in some areas at the expense of incredible shortcomings in others. This leads me back to the subject of the thread: did either the 108s/109s, 116s, or 126s attain that optimization?
Mind you, it would really be cool if we ever build "cars" like they had on "The Jetsons" cartoon.
Hello, Paris calling...
Quotedid either the 108s/109s, 116s, or 126s attain that optimization
...my answer is yes.
The 108/109 attained the highest style of its time, the W116 the greatest stability/comfort of its era, the W126 the best overall balance in a car meeting eighties expectations.
But one has to choose the components of "optimization" and my position can best be expressed this way :
If I HAD 200,000 dolars to buy a Mercedes, hell would freeze over before they stealerships with the big star would see me. For 200,000 dollars give me a 300SL gullwing !
Two years ago at Retromobile, I kept staring at the Uhlenhaut SLR (only two built) : huge twin exhaust chromed pipes coming out of the right fender, real bucket seats done in leather, red piping on the beige sets, a slew of VDO gauges, a superb body design with inredible finish and chromed wire wheels. On the road, this car shook, smoked, roared and went like a mad dog - 300hp, 300 kph -that is the OPTIMIZATION I like. The standard 300SL was a tame version of this.
If I had 3,000,000 dollars for a car, the huge bright headlights on each side of a sculptural radiator all set within voluptuous swept fenders of a 540K would see my underground parking.
Did any of you ever HEAR a 1929 SSK when the roots supercharger is engaged ? it howls like a shrieking jet engine before the day...I had the immense pleasure of hearing one - nothing like it...
When I think about
more car than my W116, I think of going back in time.
The W116 is arguably about as "comfy" as I like my cars.
Denis
Paris, France
OK guys, I'll try to keep it tp words of no more that 2 syllables (damn that has 3...)
Denis,
I agree abnout "comfy" - W116 is just about as good as it gets in my opinion.
Any car must be a balance of compromises - any manufacturer would like to build a car with 300hp and the worlds best handling and compfort and value retention and prestige and sell it for 3000 dollars - and make it last forever... but no wait - that's not in their interest. If cars could be made cheap and last forever, they would kill the market demand.
In the 1960's and 1970's durability and longevity was I believe ratred highly by Mercedes and so it was given a heavy weighting in the tradeoff of compromises. W108 and W116 were meant to last for 20 years. W140 and later were never intended to last that long. W140's were intended to about 10 years service. My W140 has EXPIRY dates stamped on some items!!! - most notably the airbags.
Any car can be made to last forever by continued maintenance, component replacement and overhaul. With cars such as W108 and W116 this may almost be practical. I kept my W116 in active hard service until it was 26 years old. And when I turn the key now its in better condition than when I bought it 10 years ago. In theory a W140 can also be made to last forever but the cost is totally prohibitive. I needed 2 new distributor caps and rotors - one for each bank- prices are typically about US$ 500 for the 4 items. Tappet cover gaskets are nearly US$100 for the pair. NOw this all mitigates against the maintainability of the car.
OK, cheers, Ryan