Don't know about $25k, but a really nice 280SE

[wbrian63]

Currently up for Buy-It-Now on eBay, a great example of what a late model 280SE should look like (IHMO).

It's in Portugal...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-Other-Saloon-/301762218447?forcerrptr=true&hash=item46426e09cf&item=301762218447

The seller has 219 images on their website:
http://www.luxuseveloce.com/index2.php?pagina=lista_carros&categoria=7&produto=35&lang=uk

No dog in this hunt...

[s class]

That is really stunning.  Not sure if the market is quite ready for 25k yet, but you can't bring an average specimen up to anywhere near that atandard for 25k. 

The underside is beautiful.  Even the crossmember under the sump is undamaged.  Gorgeous interior too. 

[floyd111]

Wow. Quite perfect. Worth a heck more than 22 thou.
Still gotta find out what's up with that radio, and spraying the spare tyre with silicone is off-puitting.
Besides that, it's a big wow again.
If this is 22 thou, I need to ..well. I am not sure. How to bring a car like this to 75 thou?

[ptashek]

Wow. Quite perfect. Worth a heck more than 22 thou.

I'm a pessimistic realist, and my take is this is worth nowhere near 25k.

That seats are, for example, anything but like-new. Yes, they're in pretty darn good shape for velours, but not like-new as advertised. Driver side bolster is showing signs of imminent disintegration, for example. It's been cleaned up nicely, and looking at it I suspect the underside was dry-ice blasted - that's cheating. Still has factory wax in the sills? Trust me, there's none of it left beyond maybe a few sorry patches that provide no protection - check my resto thread to see what I mean. A well maintained one owner car would have been sealed up better over the years. And it's the least exciting, and (AFAIR) most common of all W116 models.

How to bring it to 75k? Make it a 6.9, and gold plate it

[karmann_20v]

Wow, that looks amazing! Asking price - seller needs to put down the crack pipe though (of course IMO)

[floyd111]

"I suspect the underside was dry-ice blasted - that's cheating"

Can explain what that means?
and..won't this rust again soon?

About the velours.. Is it likely or possible that 35-40 year old velours chairs make it in a better shape than this?
To your knowledge.. according to concourse standard, is it better to have new, identical velours done, rather than leaving it like this one?

[s class]

New velour is only better than this if it is absolutely perfectly done.  Which is not likely to happen...  I agree that this car has been well cleaned and sympathetically photographed, but its the type of original unrestored car that is attracting attention internationally at the moment.  Many, myself included, regard this type of vehicle as much more desirable (and therefore more valuable) than a restored specimen.

NOtwithstanding the wear on the driver's seat, this interior really does it for me.  No sun damage at all.  The blue vinyl components ate still bright and vibrant.  One simply doesn't see that here in the Southern Hemisphere.  The blue discolours to a darker, grey-blue. 

[ptashek]

Can explain what that means?
and..won't this rust again soon?

Dry-ice blasting is done with solidified CO2 pellets under very high pressure. It's powerful enough to get at loose paint, and generally brittle material, and all that without the mess so typical of blasting with other media. Dry-ice pellets disintegrate on impact and evaporate almost instantly into pure CO2. It's really superb for cleaning delicate parts, where leaving behind traces of the blasting media is not a good idea. If raw material is exposed, it'll rust of course. Checkout this vid of an old Zastava being cleaned-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4QMIxhMKdw

About the velours.. Is it likely or possible that 35-40 year old velours chairs make it in a better shape than this?
To your knowledge.. according to concourse standard, is it better to have new, identical velours done, rather than leaving it like this one?

With velours it'd be a miracle, unless the car was never used. It's a terrible seat material, and very short-lived. I've learned that lesson very quickly.
But what I was really referring to is advertising the seats as "like-new" where they clearly aren't. You can't do that if you're aiming for a serious collector market.

[ptashek]

Many, myself included, regard this type of vehicle as much more desirable (and therefore more valuable) than a restored specimen.

I was trying to understand that attitude for years. What makes a car restored to original spec, let's assume with nothing but original parts, worse than an unrestored, little used specimen? Is it really just the originality aspect that does it? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this, it's just something I don't fully understand In my book it's a matter of quality. A quality ground-up restoration is as good as an original item, and you have the added benefit of knowing exactly what shape the car is in inside and out. But I also think that the W116 is still in the league of cars where serious restorations, as an investment, just don't make much sense yet and buying original is a better choice.

NOtwithstanding the wear on the driver's seat, this interior really does it for me.  No sun damage at all.  The blue vinyl components ate still bright and vibrant.  One simply doesn't see that here in the Southern Hemisphere.  The blue discolours to a darker, grey-blue

.

Same here. Apart from the over-optimistic seat description, the interior seems to be in splendid condition.
Wasn't it the blue vinyl that's most known for cracking and discolouring for no reason?

[Type17]

What makes a car restored to original spec, let's assume with nothing but original parts, worse than an unrestored, little used specimen? Is it really just the originality aspect that does it?

Yes, because of the phrase "a car can be restored many times, but it is only original once" - when you think about that phrase, good/excellent original cars are always going to be rarer than perfectly-restored versions, and rarity sells - eg: paintings that have some value always increase in value when the artist dies.

Of course, it all depends on a car buyer's taste - many will value rarity (either through low production numbers, or originality with minimal patina), but others will want everything to be as new, but in an old car-model (completely full restoration, wiping away all wear and patina).

[shaggy]

Perhaps this is a testament to the good build quality of these cars, but my 350€ daily driver has a blue velvet interior almost as clean as this one. When that bolster wears through, which it shortly will, there will be an unsightly patch of foam the size of an egg which will manifest itself within the space of a few hundred miles - thus compromising an already unrealistic the asking price.

This is why, in my opinion, the best w116 is neither a pristine original low mileage model nor a fully restored car, but a good honest working hack that is well maintained and procures enormous driving pleasure for the owner.   

[Type17]

Very true - although I have yet to have the experience with a Mercedes, but some of my favourite cars have been tired-but-venerable high milers like my '83 VW Golf GTI which had 215,000 miles on it when I retired it (by no means a record, but it wore the miles really well, demanded few parts, and only succumbed to rust, rather than mechanical issues).


I also love the idea of this W115: [size=78%]http://www.motor1.com/news/10077/proverbial-longevity-in-46-million-kilometers[/size]

[daantjie]

Perhaps this is a testament to the good build quality of these cars, but my 350€ daily driver has a blue velvet interior almost as clean as this one. When that bolster wears through, which it shortly will, there will be an unsightly patch of foam the size of an egg which will manifest itself within the space of a few hundred miles - thus compromising an already unrealistic the asking price.

This is why, in my opinion, the best w116 is neither a pristine original low mileage model nor a fully restored car, but a good honest working hack that is well maintained and procures enormous driving pleasure for the owner.

Must agree. As we all know garage queens have their own set of problems. These cars need to be driven regularly over long distances, preferably at sustained high speed 

[floyd111]

Let's not forget that statistically there is a big chance a car with 80.000 miles in 37 years , in original, untouched state may really be about to break down in 50 places, where high mileage cars MUST have already exchanged a large series of parts, often including big repairs as gear boxes, piston rings, rubbers, etc.

Now, I got all respect and understanding for the "original" concept
But, the W116 is no 190SL, and not a W111. Those are for Sundays and showrooms. Those car owners have the luxurious option of buying "original"
The 116 is still meant to be driven.
I for one, want to drive this car for years to come, daily, without the never ending fear of it breaking down. Give me a properly restored car anytime.
That is, if you can track and trust the restoration done.
I think that, in my lower league, that's the key.

[carl888]

To properly restore a car, the going time frame is something around 2,000 hours for a decent show quality job that would get you a place at a regional concourse.  4,000 hours upwards will get you a Pebble Beach standard job.  So the asking price must be realistic, being 10% of the restoration cost!

I've never a seen a restored car and said to myself; "Wow, that's an amazingly original car."   A restored car will always be that and it's easy to pick.  Even in the common realm of old unloved German 4 door sedans, the originality aspect is hard to find.  I really like this car for that reason, there's just not a lot of good ones left.