Finally the time of arrival is drawing near. My transport arrangement will be leaving from North Carolina this coming Monday, picking up the car in San Jose on the 20th after stopping for a parts pickup along the way for me, and the lot should be arriving towards the end of the month. Transport is costing me slightly more than half of the purchase price of the car, but at least I know that it will be in good hands and not damaged during transit. Here are some recent pictures in the meantime:
Production #4573.
Paint/Option codes are as follows - if anybody could help out with clarifying the option codes or the questions below I'd appreciate it:
172G - Glasurit, Anthracite Grey Metallic.
581 - Automatic Climate Control.
870 - Seat heater for left front seat.
871 - Seat heater for right front seat.
877 - Reading lamps in the rear.
991 - Special-order options by customer request, "see production order for details". Presumably this would include the rear reclining seat feature and rear seat heaters.
260 - Elimination of 450SEL badge from from trunk lid
261 - Elimination of 6.9 model designation from trunk lid (somebody's added a badge to this car post-production)
410 - Electric sunroof.
511 - Becker cassette radio. (has since been removed and replaced with an aftermarket stereo setup in this car).
531 - Automatic antenna.
223 - Foglamp wiring for France, Switzerland, Australia, Sweden, Norway, which I believe means the fog lights will stay on if I hit the high beams, or that I can use the fog lights alone...
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM3928_zps7aaff903.jpg?t=1365629443)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM3929_zps59ae3598.jpg?t=1365629450)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM3935_zpsb8a15a20.jpg?t=1365629470)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM4063_zps6d45131a.jpg?t=1365629520)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM4060_zps36569e82.jpg?t=1365629511)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM4051_zps18aa7a57.jpg?t=1365629503)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM4040_zps3ac33978.jpg?t=1365629495)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM3972_zps5a311091.jpg?t=1365629477)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM3934_zpsb5587c8a.jpg?t=1365629463)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM3932_zps9245d9cd.jpg?t=1365629456)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/HPIM4039_zps542769fe.jpg?t=1365629486)
That's going to look awfully nice once it's done
The interior looks pretty nice. I love the velour I had sheep skin covers but when I took them off and saw what was underneath I couldn't go back. Good luck with this project Casey :)
Nice. Looks very salvageable. It's going to need some paint though.
Looks like a perfect base for a restauration. What are your plans for the car?
rear seat heaters, rear electric seat. sweet. i reckon there would only be a couple of hundred if that that had the rear electric seat. very rare. velour looks in top nic. shame that some muppet has cut holes in the door car for speakers. someone loved that car, the 6.9 dash mat!!
congrats
Quote from: nathan on 11 April 2013, 05:15 AM
rear seat heaters, rear electric seat. sweet. i reckon there would only be a couple of hundred if that that had the rear electric seat. very rare. velour looks in top nic. shame that some muppet has cut holes in the door car for speakers. someone loved that car, the 6.9 dash mat!!
The electric rear seat is *THE* reason I bought the car. WGB has this option in his car, and I've heard of two others existing that have been found in junk yards over the years but are long gone. So when I saw this show up on eBay I couldn't resist trying to arrange a purchase. I'd also been idly thinking that one day I'd like a 6.9, but strongly preferred a euro version. The front and rear seat heaters and origin of Switzerland were icing on the cake. I was very very lucky to be able to get it when I did, and owe much gratitude for a personal loan to help with the purchase. Was also very lucky to get it for the price I did which I consider very fair - it has not been running in about 4 years which I suppose kept the bidding reasonable. Mice have been living in the engine bay and it will need a new wiring harness and ballast resistors and for some as-of-yet unknown reason the coolant has all leaked out. The second highest bidder was a car collector in Qatar according to the seller, and I just barely managed to win the auction!
The dash is cracked underneath the mat but I really don't care. A new dash will be going in at some point. I believe the previous owner did indeed love the car, but he unfortunately died and I think that's why the car ended up parked since a few years back. Like myself he had a bad habit of collecting various cars and other toys that he enjoyed - I've heard some pretty funny stories from his daughter who sold the car.
Here are some pictures of the previous owner, may he rest in peace:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Hampton%20Hoge/DadTahoepic_zpsac133ace.jpg?t=1365681544)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Hampton%20Hoge/dadgiants_zpscded37fb.jpg?t=1365681541)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Hampton%20Hoge/Lorrainemomandad_zps59122249.jpg?t=1365681548)
Pretty sure the passenger in this picture was more accustomed to riding along in the 6.9... ;)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Hampton%20Hoge/dadandmatt_zps8d0fd360.jpg?t=1365681540)
This one comes with a funny story...it's the original owner with a boat that he hid from all his family in storage for 15 years after he bought it in Lake Tahoe. He knew if he brought one more thing home, or bought one more thing...he was in trouble...so he just hid it instead!
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Hampton%20Hoge/dadhiddenboat_zpsd6faf057.jpg?t=1365681543)
Quote from: AndreasF on 11 April 2013, 03:56 AM
Looks like a perfect base for a restauration. What are your plans for the car?
It's going to get parked in my garage for a few months while I work on getting it up and running again, and save up money to do a full restoration. I intend to go all out with this car, and for it to be like new when I'm done. It spent most of it's life in California so is a pretty rust-free example. The only corrosion I know of is just a bit of surface rust around the sunroof opening. Now I have not seen it in person as of yet but the seller seems trustworthy and I had a mechanic check out the car as well. A couple more weeks and I'll be able to go over it thoroughly myself. :)
Quote from: adamb on 11 April 2013, 03:38 AM
Nice. Looks very salvageable. It's going to need some paint though.
I actually think that paint will look really good with just a bit of rubbing compound and detailing products. But I do intend on a high-quality careful respray. Honestly I wasn't very excited by the color, but the nice shiny red 450SEL I've been driving has been attracting too much attention from the police who've been giving me speeding tickets so at this point I'm looking forward to it.
Quote from: Casey on 11 April 2013, 06:48 AMI actually think that paint will look really good with just a bit of rubbing compound and detailing products.
I think you're crazy :)
Quote from: alabbasi on 11 April 2013, 08:21 AM
I think you're crazy :)
Was there ever any doubt? I'm pretty sure a man cannot own as many old Mercedes as I do and be sane at the same time. ;D
expect to spend 20,000. or better on full restoration and the car will still be worth 10,000.00, i have one just like that with heated front and rear seats and all the other accessories, paid 1800.00 for the car so love it for what it is, and never expect to get any return on investment, Arcijack
Yep, all you can do is make a 6.9 into a nice driver. If you want a show car, find a low mileage original for $10k to $12k
Quote from: arcijack on 11 April 2013, 03:53 PM
expect to spend 20,000. or better on full restoration and the car will still be worth 10,000.00, i have one just like that with heated front and rear seats and all the other accessories, paid 1800.00 for the car so love it for what it is, and never expect to get any return on investment, Arcijack
I doubt you have an electric reclining rear seat though? I don't care about return on investment, though I expect these cars to be going up in value over time. This is for me, and if somebody wants to take me reclining rear seat 116 LWB they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. I would honestly turn down an offer of 100k. I'll be disturbing originality by converting to a column shift, installing French headlights, and converting the climate control to manual anyways. Yes a full restoration will cost a significant amount and take a while, but with a price new of 155-160k of today's dollars can you really whine about getting it to a like-new state for 20k? I can't. :)
Sure beats any new 20k vehicle...
Quote from: Casey on 11 April 2013, 04:04 PMI doubt you have an electric reclining rear seat though?
It's pretty cool to see a 6.9 with some early features such as ABS, electric rear heated seats etc, but In the grand scheme of things, I don't think that important when compared to condition, and not that big a deal as I had electric heated seats in all of my SEL W126 models and never used them :)
The big issue for these cars is rust and in order to really get to the rust you have to take the car completely apart. Randy indicates $20k, I would say that a thorough job will cost in excess of $50k.
This is how far I took my 280SL before sending it to the sand blasters.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LIc0ZqQijtw/UUTixZEHiwI/AAAAAAAADDY/XIQsMpVNgA8/s800/IMG_20130316_122945.jpg)
You would think that this would eliminate all rust but you still have to go deeper and cut away the box sections in order to really get to all of it.
Here's a picture of the bumper support after we cut it away. As you can see, externally, it looked solid but there was a lot of scale on the inside.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AXylidx-Osg/UUTi6jQzOXI/AAAAAAAADEI/IGTDBfwBYoA/s800/IMG_20130316_123105.jpg%5B/img%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttps://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ClCh5uEynP0/UUTjINZNzgI/AAAAAAAADFA/csFbJkDSsyM/s800/IMG_20130316_133349.jpg)
In my opinion, the effort of going through this process may pay off with a pagoda, but on any MB sedan, it's almost always better to find a rust free example as you'll never be able to make a nice car out of a rusty one without pulling the whole thing apart.
I admire your enthusiasm and I'm not trying to knock your car. I've just been down that road, the first in 2005 with my first 6.9 which is documented here:
http://alabbasi.com/450SEL.htm
The best you can do is try to get it as nice as you can without losing your shorts in the process.
the 6.9 i have was bought for 58,000.00 in 1979, i have all the documented paperwork and every invoice where work was done on car, i love the car and like you i will probably never sell, i wish you the best, but don't set unrealistic expectations for yourself and the car , i'm no expert, but these cars have a way of humbling us, unless money is no object. I want you to enjoy the car and i'm happy for you.
Quote from: arcijack on 11 April 2013, 05:17 PM
the 6.9 i have was bought for 58,000.00 in 1979, i have all the documented paperwork and every invoice where work was done on car, i love the car and like you i will probably never sell, i wish you the best, but don't set unrealistic expectations for yourself and the car , i'm no expert, but these cars have a way of humbling us, unless money is no object. I want you to enjoy the car and i'm happy for you.
Nice, I don't have that kind of extensive record history unfortunately - it's hard to come by. This will be the ninth W116 in my garage when it arrives with another 6.9 (US-spec with blown top end, good for parts and lower-priority less extensive restoration) following shortly thereafter. I've definitely learned a lot over the last couple years of tinkering with these cars and have learned plenty of lessons the hard way so am familiar with the humbling experience though of course the added complexities of the 6.9 is a whole new level. I have zero regrets and it's been a grand adventure though. I'm looking forward to the challenges and surprises that await. :)
Just how does one spend $50k restoring a nearly complete running car? I assume this means a number 1 or 2 car when complete (i.e., don't dare drive it).
I suppose I still have not reconciled myself to the full effect of inflation.
Quote from: ZCarFan on 11 April 2013, 09:33 PM
Just how does one spend $50k restoring a nearly complete running car?
Rust and labor rates?
I'm wondering about the prices for a good Euro 6,9. If someone can sell me a good Euro 6,9 for 12.000$ I would take 2 or 3 of them :-)
In Germany you have to pay between 30.000 and 40.000€ for a 6,9 in a really good condition and with clear history. So you are very lucky to find such a car for a lower price. In other words, let's do a simple business: You find really good cars for 12.000$, sell and ship it to me for 15.000$ and I sell the car for 30.000$ in Germany. Would be a very nice business. :-)
Cherrs Andreas
Quote from: AndreasF on 12 April 2013, 12:34 AM
I'm wondering about the prices for a good Euro 6,9. If someone can sell me a good Euro 6,9 for 12.000$ I would take 2 or 3 of them :-)
In Germany you have to pay between 30.000 and 40.000€ for a 6,9 in a really good condition and with clear history. So you are very lucky to find such a car for a lower price. In other words, let's do a simple business: You find really good cars for 12.000$, sell and ship it to me for 15.000$ and I sell the car for 30.000$ in Germany. Would be a very nice business. :-)
Honestly? It's really hard to see *any* 6.9, even nice euro ones, go for more than 12k in the USA these days. There are some really nice ones that have higher price tags, but they rarely sell in this economy. Check out this one for $8500: http://forum.w116.org/shop/us-6-9's-for-sale-posted-elsewhere/msg110656/#msg110656
A super-nice AMG model with loads of options was listed at $8k not long ago. I've seen numerous super-nice ones that look brand new with low mileage sell for under 15k, and anything priced higher than that tends not to sell at all. Definitely a good time to buy if you have the cash! I've ended up with all the cars I have due to prices coming down so much over the last few years, though I don't have that much money really and end up getting a lot of projects needing work.
Quote from: alabbasi on 11 April 2013, 04:29 PM
The big issue for these cars is rust and in order to really get to the rust you have to take the car completely apart. Randy indicates $20k, I would say that a thorough job will cost in excess of $50k.
At least $50k to do a 6.9 properly.
I am about to embark on a decent resto of a client's 6.9, and at local south African labour rates :
rust repairs : $7k
body and paint : $7k
new leather from GAHH, installed : $6k
15" bundts : $2k
trans rebuild : $2k
engine work? We haven't decided how far to go yet
remove, strip, clean, rebush, reinstall suspension, steering etc : $4k, NOT including hydraulics
all new weatherstrips.....
all new chrome and brightwork.....
disassembly and reassembly of car.... how many hours do you think that takes...$1k? $2k?$5k?.....
I'm sure the total will easily run over $50k.
Quote from: Casey on 11 April 2013, 06:48 AMHonestly I wasn't very excited by the color, but the nice shiny red 450SEL I've been driving has been attracting too much attention from the police who've been giving me speeding tickets so at this point I'm looking forward to it.
Don't speed and you won't get a ticket!
Quote from: s class on 12 April 2013, 03:04 AM
Quote from: alabbasi on 11 April 2013, 04:29 PM
The big issue for these cars is rust and in order to really get to the rust you have to take the car completely apart. Randy indicates $20k, I would say that a thorough job will cost in excess of $50k.
At least $50k to do a 6.9 properly.
I am about to embark on a decent resto of a client's 6.9, and at local south African labour rates :
rust repairs : $7k
body and paint : $7k
new leather from GAHH, installed : $6k
15" bundts : $2k
trans rebuild : $2k
engine work? We haven't decided how far to go yet
remove, strip, clean, rebush, reinstall suspension, steering etc : $4k, NOT including hydraulics
all new weatherstrips.....
all new chrome and brightwork.....
disassembly and reassembly of car.... how many hours do you think that takes...$1k? $2k?$5k?.....
I'm sure the total will easily run over $50k.
Cost is purely dependant upon what you're trying to achieve and you don't need to spend $50K for a good driver. But if you want a show car then $50K is certainly in the ballpark. About the price of a new car but far more unique, interesting and lots more fun! I've heard some spend double, or triple that on (modified) show cars. And the base car was far less superior to the W116. When these vehicles are sold they're advertised for far more than even the best original car. What they sell for is anyone's guess, but I'm tipping they'd be waiting a very long time for the right buyer and even then struggle to get their money back.
A 5% return on an investment is considered reasonable but even that can be very hard to achieve unless you've stumbled across a desirable vehicle and manage to buy it for lots less than market value. Spending more to fix it up and you'd want even better returns to make the effort worthwhile
Quote from: oversize on 12 April 2013, 03:44 AM
Don't speed and you won't get a ticket!
True enough, but nonetheless, my driving habits haven't changed, only the color of my car has. And at least my last two tickets, I was in traffic doing the exact same speed as people in front of me; the same speed that I see people driving or exceeding every day. So shiny red paint and chrome seems to indeed attract more attention. At the same time while I leave a lot of distance in front of me, use turn signals, and drive courteously, lots of people tailgate, never signal, swerve around dangerously, and I never see anybody getting pulled over for that... :/
I'm also on the road for 2 hours a day at least, so there's simply a lot of exposure time.
Casey,
Why don't you buy yourself a really nice 6.9 and enjoy it. If you had a really good one then you will get immense satisfaction out of using it while working on your remaining 9 cars. I'm recommending this sincerely. You are a prolific contributor to this forum but I fear that you may overwhelm yourself with the amount of outstanding work. I can only speak from my experience - I have the one 6.9 and two motorbikes. I barely have time to maintain them while holding down a full time job. The body restore of my 6.9 two years ago, which I documented extensively on this forum, took a lot of evenings and weekends just for the strip down and reassembly. I paid many many thousands for fixing the body. Removal of all rust (as some have indicated above) was simply not a realistic proposition. Seriously, get yourself a sorted 6.9 to help you continue to enjoy your hobbie for many years to come.
Kind regards,
Adam
Quote from: adamb on 12 April 2013, 05:37 AM
Why don't you buy yourself a really nice 6.9 and enjoy it.
Because I don't want to. Why do so many feel a need to be critical?
I have a really nice 450SEL (http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/casey's-1979-450sel) and I enjoy it. I wanted a W116 with the reclining rear seat feature, and got a good deal on this one, and it's almost entirely rust-free. If I wanted another really nice driver without having to put any real work into it, I'd find myself a really nice 300SD.
QuoteYou are a prolific contributor to this forum but I fear that you may overwhelm yourself with the amount of outstanding work.
I've hit burnout points before, and I know how much time/energy I can healthily put in without risking that. I have plenty of storage space now as well as a very nice driver, so I'm not really concerned about how much time/money it ends up taking - it's what I enjoy and wish to do. I enjoy keeping more vehicles on the road and enjoy the process and learning that comes from that.
Appreciate the concern but it's a done deal and I'm very happy about it.
As for my other cars, some have been bad purchases I've learned from the hard way - others bought for parts. The last car I was using as a driver through the winter months was one I bought just for parts originally. Roads get salted here and I didn't want to expose a nice car to them. One of my cars is almost completely done being stripped and will be going to the scrapyard the same day the 6.9 arrives, on the same trailer. I've got a couple that are just in "cold storage" because I haven't decided whether I want to restore them or scrap them, such as the green 450SEL I spent a fair bit on but turned out to have lots of hidden rust and bondo. It's hard to bite the bullet and just take a loss of several thousand dollars but honestly that's probably the best idea in that case. Three need engine swaps which is still something I'm working up to being comfortable doing myself.
There's a reason to my madness and I never intend to make the 6.9 a daily driver. I want it to be a garage queen that I put serious investment into over time, and take out once a week or so for pleasure.
Please note my signature.
Hey, dude, you share - we comment and make opinions. That's why we call it a forum 8)
Good luck with getting that 6.9 running. My 6.9 when I got it was white (as per my avatar). It looked great in pictures. The paint was awful but white is good at hiding differences in colour, paint cracks, etc. Hopefully in this case the pictures are misleading; some spit and polish will make it shine.
Quote from: adamb on 12 April 2013, 05:58 AM
Hey, dude, you share - we comment and make opinions. That's why we call it a forum 8)
Okay? Likewise you asked a question and I answered. No worries. I didn't take offense and apologize if my response made it sound like I did. There's just been a fair bit of criticism/concern posted on this thread and I'm not entirely sure. I got a good deal I'm very happy with and bought it as a project in unknown state - it has been neglected for a while for sure. I don't know if it's that I tend to come across the wrong way or if im just noticing it more when it applies to me but I don't see as much criticism when others post about their purchases even when much more ambitious projects. So the question I posed about criticism was not directed specifically at you, hence the verbiage "so many".
Like I said, I *do* appreciate your concern and input, but it's a purchase that was completed 2 or 3 months ago and is just finally about to arrive.
I really need to focus on the cars I have before even thinking about another one, let alone the money it would take for a really nice one...
Quote from: s class on 12 April 2013, 03:04 AM
Quote from: alabbasi on 11 April 2013, 04:29 PM
The big issue for these cars is rust and in order to really get to the rust you have to take the car completely apart. Randy indicates $20k, I would say that a thorough job will cost in excess of $50k.
At least $50k to do a 6.9 properly.
I am about to embark on a decent resto of a client's 6.9, and at local south African labour rates :
rust repairs : $7k
body and paint : $7k
new leather from GAHH, installed : $6k
15" bundts : $2k
trans rebuild : $2k
engine work? We haven't decided how far to go yet
remove, strip, clean, rebush, reinstall suspension, steering etc : $4k, NOT including hydraulics
all new weatherstrips.....
all new chrome and brightwork.....
disassembly and reassembly of car.... how many hours do you think that takes...$1k? $2k?$5k?.....
I'm sure the total will easily run over $50k.
I keep forgetting how much body shops and mechanics get paid these days. I certainly didn't make much when I was in that business. I remember replacing all the bushings, front brakes two tires and an alignment on a '72 Chevelle and charged less than a day's labor. Had more than one car on the rack that day too. Then again, we only charged an hour to handle front brakes including turning rotors and repacking bearings @ $60/hour. That was only 10 years ago.
So the real cost is having someone else do most of the work. I am always thinking from the perspective of doing these tasks myself. That is the problem with restorations, unless you have a rather significant income, you "lose" money paying someone else to handle labor. For example, in the first 4 items listed I would expect to budget about $15,000 less. (14" bundts are fine by me and I hate leather, have a MIG welder and a spray gun).
The brightwork expense however, is nearly unavoidable. Plating is just not practical at home (or likely legal?). It is also a detail that makes a real difference.
Casey,
I expect you will be doing most of this yourself? Have you considered the budget yet?
Quote from: ZCarFan on 12 April 2013, 07:31 AM
I expect you will be doing most of this yourself? Have you considered the budget yet?
Yes, and I have a lot of parts and tools already as well as another 6.9 I can borrow parts from coming soon. I intend to invest in a welder though not for this car - as mentioned this one is pretty much rust-free (I had a Mercedes mechanic in the area familiar with 6.9's check it out for me). I intend to do the painting and mechanical work myself, surely with some aid from this forum... :)
Is it worth my time, considering I'm much slower than an experienced mechanic? Probably not, but I'm in it for the learning and adventure. No budget - I hope to spend as much time and money as it takes to reach an end result I'm happy with. No interest in a show car, but I do want it in tip top shape.
I don't think that anyone here is being critical. We're just stating the obvious. When you see obvious rust such as in the floor, rockers etc. You should expect that all of the box sections behind those panels are also rusted through. In order to get to them and address the rust properly, a complete tear down is required.
Then you can flip the body over cut away the sections that are obviously rusty, sand blast and repair.
The scope so far will get you as far as you would have gotten if you found a 6.9 that's lived all of its life in Arizona or some other dry state, which is why everyone has stated that finding a nice one for $12-15k is a better bet.
Of course , if you're going this far, then you may as well replace every piece of rubber that you pulled off, paint all the suspension pieces and plate all the bolts and build a show car because that's not where the majority of your expense is.
Euro 6.9's are nice for what they are, but unlike your w107 500sl or w126 500sel's and sec's that came to this country in the hey day of the gray market imports, 99.9% of euro 6.9's spent a few years outside the US before they were imported. Therefore 99.9% of them are going to be rusty and if they don't look rusty, they're hiding it.
That particular car looks a lot like the one that I just bought when I bought it. Being that it's sitting on its belly, it's very tough to asses how rusty it is. Mine did not look that bad but boy you should see the amount of cutting and welding that we're doing right now.
I get where you're coming from, for me it's also about the journey and not so much the destination. But i'm now starting to lean towards cars that have been crashed instead of being left abandoned. If you're going to replace 1/2 the sheet metal, at least you know it ran before it was hit.
Quote from: alabbasi on 12 April 2013, 08:05 AM
When you see obvious rust such as in the floor, rockers etc. You should expect that all of the box sections behind those panels are also rusted through. In order to get to them and address the rust properly, a complete tear down is required.
Then you can flip the body over cut away the sections that are obviously rusty, sand blast and repair.
The scope so far will get you as far as you would have gotten if you found a 6.9 that's lived all of its life in Arizona or some other dry state, which is why everyone has stated that finding a nice one for $12-15k is a better bet.
The rockers and floorboards are not rusty as far I'm aware, and it HAS spent it's life in a dry state. Mechanic checked out the underneath, not rusty there either. Some rust could be hiding but don't see any reason to suspect that. I don't know how long it was in Switzerland before California, but it has been stateside for quite a while. Not sure how they got away with not converting the bumpers and headlights but I'm surely not complaining.
Quote from: ZCarFan on 12 April 2013, 07:31 AM
I keep forgetting how much body shops and mechanics get paid these days. I certainly didn't make much when I was in that business.....
The cost of out-work is debatable - depends on who you use. I was just trying to illustrate how the costs can escalate, based on a real-world example that I'm in the middle of right now. The costs I listed are based on 'doing it right' using some of the best artisans, and replacing everything that should be replaced.
I'm not going to criticise the OP for wanting to sort out this euro. I'm in the same boat myself - I've got a '76 ex-Finland euro 6.9 that is my own personal project ticking over on the side. Its rusty, and has had a bad hit on the LR at some point decades ago. I do my own welding and all my own mechanical work, and trust me, it is hundreds of hours to completely strip and reassemble a 6.9.
since everyone is chimig in, i thought i would add my 2 cents, i recently bought a 1977 euro from Austin unseen and in the pictures it looked ok, but when i start looking around , it was a total mess, started to send it to the strap pile, but decided to keep it, already tearing it down and welding metal, only paid 500.00 dollars for the car, came with a set of suspension blocks and some xtra fuches wheels in the trunk which i sold. so go for it man, do what make you happy, people say 'm crazy but i have a son who is an expert welder and we are rocking,,, got faith in you brother, happy returns.
If it is rubbish, at least I'll have that rear seat I've always wanted. I'll just plug it in to a 12v power source, occasionally sit in it, and move it forward and back repeatedly with a huge smile on my face...
I'm pretty hopeful though because the mechanic who knows classic Mercedes well gave it a pretty good once over and said he thought I got a pretty good car.
I am however also familiar with how these cars can hide rust. For example the floorboards can look perfectly fine but then rust is hiding there underneath the painted sound deadening layer, as in my '73:
(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/41393-1/IMG_0018_001.JPG)(http://gallery.w116.org/dl/41388-1/IMG_0017_001.JPG)
Quote from: s class on 12 April 2013, 08:22 AM
Quote from: ZCarFan on 12 April 2013, 07:31 AM
I keep forgetting how much body shops and mechanics get paid these days. I certainly didn't make much when I was in that business.....
The cost of out-work is debatable - depends on who you use. I was just trying to illustrate how the costs can escalate, based on a real-world example that I'm in the middle of right now. The costs I listed are based on 'doing it right' using some of the best artisans, and replacing everything that should be replaced.
I'm not going to criticise the OP for wanting to sort out this euro. I'm in the same boat myself - I've got a '76 ex-Finland euro 6.9 that is my own personal project ticking over on the side. Its rusty, and has had a bad hit on the LR at some point decades ago. I do my own welding and all my own mechanical work, and trust me, it is hundreds of hours to completely strip and reassemble a 6.9.
The subject of to cost of restorations and the various levels of detail and scope would make a good discussion for the "Auto Torque" forum. It just amazes me every time the numbers come out. For example, with the housing market crash still in effect my house is only worth about $50k so the idea of spending that on a restoration is a bit hard. ;)
I think it is still valid to "restore" a car back to a good driveable condition for a lower cost but maybe this is better applied to a more plentiful model rather than a 6.9?
Ultimately it depends on what you're trying to achieve what what you're working with. The problem with rust is that it's hard to determine how bad the car is until you start stripping it down and the more you cut away, the more you tend to find. If you remove that factor by finding a rust free car then your scope narrows considerably.
I'm currently restoring a rusty pagoda. It's probably going to cost me a fair amount more then it would cost for me to buy a driver. Why am I doing it?
I can afford to restore a car slowly but I could not afford one if i had to lay out money to buy it all at once, and I don't want to borrow money so that I can own a toy.
I personally know and have used unscrupulous vendors who who do an incredible job of hiding a messed up car and making it almost impossible to tell how bad it is (Part of my huge expense is redo because of this).
I know that when my car is done, the body is going to be pretty close to perfect and I have no intentions of doing it again.
After I get done with my 6.3, 6.9, pagoda , Jensen Interceptor and Jaguar XJ12C, I'm done with rusty cars :)
It's all in the details. If you want a 6.9 with a reclining rear seat (which almost never come up for sale, I'm sure) you have to jump on the first one you can get.
It's similar to my 300SD; I wanted one in Walnut Brown with a sunroof. As I'm aware, the only year for Walnut Brown on a W116 was 1980. In 1980, almost no USA W116s (at least not 300SDs) had a sunroof. Finding a Walnut Brown W116 with a sunroof that is also a 300SD is next to impossible. That's why I bought mine, even though it has horrible paint and everything on it was worn out and broken. Even though it had been painted black, I can go back to the original color when I can afford it.
For a few hundred dollars more I could have bought a decent driver with respectable paint, but they weren't exactly what I wanted. Over the years I've collected for mine different parts to make it just the way I want it. I now have it running reliably (daily driver) and it looks decent except for the horrible paint.
It was the same thing with my 1967 Mercedes fintail station wagon. The 1960s Mercedes wagons are my ultimate dream car, but only a very few were converted into wagons at a coachbuilder. Because of this, they are extremely difficult to find and prohibitively expensive to purchase. I happened to find one on craigslist for $1,000.
I received a lot of criticism for it because it's super rusty and about ready to fold in half. I looked at it as, this is my only chance to ever get a fintail station wagon. And it's true. I'd never be able to afford a nice one. I plan to get a rust-free sunroof sedan and cut the wagon-specific sheet metal off of it and graft it onto the sedan. It will be a lot of work, but it's on the backburner and I will tinker with it here and there as I am able, as I'm sure you'll be doing with your 6.9. In the meantime, I have a nice driver to use (except for the paint). Also, I've installed an engine from a 300SD, which drives the purists nuts, but at least I'm modifying one that has been deemed too rusty to restore, instead of buying a nice one and then hacking it up.
We all have our reasons for doing things, and if you've thought about it and have a plan, good for you. There's a difference between that and being impulsive. If your 6.9 ends up being non-rusty after all, then you've done really well.
While it is true that you won't get a ticket if you don't speed, certain car colors like red can attract more attention. A policeman may be more willing to forgive a white Kia for speeding than a red Ferarri.
It will be nice to read up on the progress of the 6.9. It will be unique, and not easily duplicated. I'm glad to be able to help with parts.
Quote from: Casey on 12 April 2013, 10:36 AM
If it is rubbish, at least I'll have that rear seat I've always wanted. I'll just plug it in to a 12v power source, occasionally sit in it, and move it forward and back repeatedly with a huge smile on my face...
Nothing wrong with having all that you've wanted, I'm sure this car is gonna be a whole lot of fun for you to work on. :)
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 12 April 2013, 08:00 PMIt's similar to my 300SD; I wanted one in Walnut Brown with a sunroof. :)
That's why I bought mine, even though it has horrible paint and everything on it was worn out and broken. :(
Even though it had been painted black....... :o
For a few hundred dollars more I could have bought a decent driver with respectable paint..... ???
Dude seriously?
Quote from: alabbasi on 12 April 2013, 08:57 PM
Dude seriously?
Yep, I wanted a Walnut Brown W116 300SD with a sunroof. They are "rare as hen's teeth" as they put it. So far I've only seen maybe two for sale; mine and one on eBay that was way out of my price range ($6,000). All the other Walnut Brown ones I have seen did not have a sunroof, and were all from the 1980 model year.
I actually gave up on finding a Walnut Brown 300SD and started looking for black ones because I could change the color without the old color coming back to haunt me too badly. I had the seller of my car email me the VIN number, and I discovered from that, that it was originally a Walnut Brown car, and sure enough, the engine compartment and insides of the doors are still brown (they painted the door jambs black, though).
So, I jumped on it. It was actually highly misrepresented and the seller lied about almost everything he advertised ("new" tires were actually mismatched and threadbare, "new" brake master cylinder was rusty and leaking brake fluid, "new $6,000 rear differential and axle shafts" were old and the boots were cracked, "good" transmission was actually bad, "good" interior was actually totally sunbaked and completely trashed, rear seat was out of a blue W123, "just had alignment done" and the steering was extremely sloppy, "working" CD player did not work, and the seller had the nerve to say it had good paint even though the clearcoat was peeling in sheets... and so forth).
But, when you want a specific model and color of car that happens to be rare, you're stuck with whatever you can find unless you are in no hurry and maybe have a good amount of savings. Fortunately, my car has hardly any rust and the engine runs strong; even with 316,000 miles it doesn't smoke and has no blow-by. I've rebuilt almost everything mechanical, mostly from amazing wrecking yard and eBay finds, almost with 100% genuine Mercedes parts. I've replaced almost the entire interior, and now short of the bad paint, you'd think it was a car that's been well-taken-care-of from the day it was new. It's been rather fun.
Yes, for a few hundred dollars more I could have got a not-too-badly neglected, driveable W116 with decent paint. And it would have made a fine car, but I dislike getting rid of cars after putting lots of money into them, and if I had the opportunity to buy a Walnut Brown one down the road, I would have wanted to sell whatever color car it was to get the Walnut Brown one, then I would have lost all the time and money I put into the first car and would have to put more time and money into the new car anyway.
Just as well mine was worn out, because most of these cars are on their last legs, anyway, and with all these new parts I feel confident that I can get in it and drive coast-to-coast if I have to (a few months back I did a 3,000 mile round trip and essentially used it as a moving truck going from Arizona to Washington and back).
I plan to keep this car for life, or at least until my fintail wagon is completed (at which point that will become my daily driver), though I'll probably still keep the 300SD as a backup car. Since this car is exactly what I want and my only drivable vehicle, I can justify every cent I put into it. I know that I won't be selling it at a loss in the future.
I've found that getting something that is exactly what you want and then sticking with it is a better plan than buying whatever is a "good deal" or convenient, investing money into it, then getting bored with it and selling it at a loss, only to invest in something else. If buying, selling, and trading cars is your hobby, though, I suppose that's different if you get enjoyment out of it or are able to make a profit. I want something I can keep my whole life, have great experiences with, and fond memories of.
When I think of my dream car, I get ideas in my head and set out to build exactly the car I have envisioned. I'm sure Casey is the same way. It may be difficult to get to the end result, but it's well worth it.
Great project, Casey!
I understand your point, not far from the mine when I bought the 450SE on 1999. I was not searching for a 450SE, indeed neither a Mercedes-Benz nor a historic car... only, a friend of mine (he has a car workshop) informed me about that car. I pay it 4.5 MLit (more or less, 2300 Euro) and of course another 2.5 MLit of expense for next 3 years taxes (in Italy, we pay y'ly a tax even if the car is parked in a box... :-\ ... and only after 30 years from first matriculation taxes drop down to a small 30 Euro) before the Merc gain the 30th birthday. Nevetheless, after a check, I told to myself that it was a pity that such a car (with only 125k km - 78k miles!) would finish its days in a scrapyard... a new paint would necessary (no rust, but the final coat was like "grained", due to the last 3 years spent outside) and a small wears on the velour seating (the sun did like a burn on the top side front seating and on the top rear back). Nowadays I still need to get a new paintwork, but I found a velour seating set, provisionally mounted (I bought the velour in Steenbuck, Hamburg-Germany since years), powertrain is working good after few check-up during these 13 years.
As a conclusion, of course I will pay more money than the car value (in Italy you can sell a 116 with large difficulties, 4-5k Euro if you're lucky, a bit more in Germany... just the 6.9 would rise to > 10K Euro), but working on it, after some check-up and small repairs, I learned something... just something ;) ... but I enjoy myself a lot! :D
My 6.9 cost me about $10,000 to get the mechanical side of things sorted, and that was parts alone. Looking at the car now, it's hard to see how that many parts were replaced, but a lot was done.
I'm very satisfied with how the car performs, and I have made quite a few improvements along the way, and let me tell you; it makes all the difference in the end. It's also very reliable as well.
If I wasn't as stubborn as I am, the car would have practically destroyed me. It was pretty frustrating though, but I took it one step at a time not thinking too much of the bigger picture, which can be rather overwhelming at times.
I bought mine because I wanted a 6.9, the condition being that it was to be relatively rust free, and I just happened upon the right car at the right time.
I would get the mechanical side of things sorted, once you establish how sound the body is. It sounds like an ideal project to me.
I would try cutting back the paint for sure... You may be surprised how it shines up, unless it has a clear coat.
The best thing is, that if you successfully get the car sorted, it is a great achievement if you have done it yourself.
Tim
Quote from: Casey on 12 April 2013, 05:33 AM
Quote from: oversize on 12 April 2013, 03:44 AM
Don't speed and you won't get a ticket!
True enough, but nonetheless, my driving habits haven't changed, only the color of my car has. And at least my last two tickets, I was in traffic doing the exact same speed as people in front of me; the same speed that I see people driving or exceeding every day. So shiny red paint and chrome seems to indeed attract more attention. At the same time while I leave a lot of distance in front of me, use turn signals, and drive courteously, lots of people tailgate, never signal, swerve around dangerously, and I never see anybody getting pulled over for that... :/
I'm also on the road for 2 hours a day at least, so there's simply a lot of exposure time.
You're more likely to get pulled over if your car looks rough; colour has nothing to do with it. You should change your habits; just because others speed doesn't make it ok and it's likely they'll get pulled over one day too. The police can only pull over one car at a time
Casey I'd be looking for water leaks and obvious rust for now. Once they're sorted get it repainted. If you take it any further, you may find it overwhelming and end up selling the car in pieces (at a loss), like so many have before you. Many people don't realize that just stripping and re-assembling a car is a huge undertaking, let alone making susbstantial repairs in the process. If that happens you may never get to enjoy it.
She looks like a great project to me, provided the condition reports are accurate
Guys,
Just got back from Essen.... prices for EVERYTHING for sale in the event were through the roof!!! I will post a lot of pictures in the next few days but since we are talking about 6.9's, there was this gorgeous Thistle Green car with green velour for sale at 54900euros!!! Low km, early model with no console wood and a possibly original Telefunken car phone with its own trunk mounted antenna.
Was it worth it... well again it all depends on what you are looking for. Could that car be reproduced for the asking price? Probably not.
In fact I think the talked about figure of US$50k is pretty light if you are looking at a "real" restoration. My client spent $75k on the 77 green 6.9 documented here in the Forum and it DID NOT need any engine work. The current owner has already invested another $12k on new seats from GAHH, XWX tires and a few more details that are making the car more and more perfect. We are now planning to do a full engine detail like I did on my 450SEL and will replace all cooling hoses, related gaskets,etc... with labor that's probably going to run another $6-7k.
In my opinion, having dealt with a few 6.9's in the last few years the best two ways to go about owning these incredible cars are:
1) Buy the absolute best car you can find, low mileage if possible, service records, mechanically perfect, good paint etc... pay the asking, make sure that figure matches the cars condition and be happy.
2) Embark on a cost no object restoration with no hopes to recover the investment and no time frame to finish, once its done, its done....
6.9's will always bite you in the A, you think you're finished... then all of a sudden the suspension starts dropping for no reason....then you take off hard from a red light and the transmission makes this awful noise as if the whole drive train is going to drop from under the car.... then the diff develops an annoying clunk when accelerating/decelerating, well you get the picture...
I still believe option #1 is the way to go and if I reeeeeeeeealy wanted a 6 9 and had the funds to own one, 54900 would actually be a bargain, just my 0.02
Tks
Joe
yep
Quote from: jbrasile on 18 April 2013, 09:13 PM
In my opinion, having dealt with a few 6.9's in the last few years the best two ways to go about owning these incredible cars are:
1) Buy the absolute best car you can find, low mileage if possible, service records, mechanically perfect, good paint etc... pay the asking, make sure that figure matches the cars condition and be happy.
2) Embark on a cost no object restoration with no hopes to recover the investment and no time frame to finish, once its done, its done....
Joe, there is another and possibly better way I think :) Let's call it item zero. It is the most common way of owning a classic. I have done this since the mid 90s when I first got into old Benzes and the model works for me and, I am sure, many other persons on this list.
In a nutshell - buy the car which looks straight for an average amount of money. Neither top dollar showroom queen, nor a project requiring urgent work. For W116s the cost is region specific but I figure that in UK we are talking about around 5000 to 8000 pounds. There will be minor issues or things broken, or not working but the car will be driveable and usable. As owner you may spend some more thousands doing a respray (but not because you need to) or a few hundred here and there keeping the vehicle in a road worthy condition. Owners in this group don't buy XWX tyres though they will buy new rubber seals, chrome, etc as and when budgets become available.
I've moved house 3 times in my 6.9, using it as mule with rear bench removed. She's a practical but thirsty car. Not for every day but certainly for errands and occasional commuting duties. I am a happy owner and I fall neither into camp 1 or 2 above.
Quote from: adamb on 19 April 2013, 07:57 AM
In a nutshell - buy the car which looks straight for an average amount of money. Neither top dollar showroom queen, nor a project requiring urgent work. For W116s the cost is region specific but I figure that in UK we are talking about around 5000 to 8000 pounds. There will be minor issues or things broken, or not working but the car will be driveable and usable. As owner you may spend some more thousands doing a respray (but not because you need to) or a few hundred here and there keeping the vehicle in a road worthy condition. Owners in this group don't buy XWX tyres though they will buy new rubber seals, chrome, etc as and when budgets become available.
I've moved house 3 times in my 6.9, using it as mule with rear bench removed. She's a practical but thirsty car. Not for every day but certainly for errands and occasional commuting duties. I am a happy owner and I fall neither into camp 1 or 2 above.
Indeed. Despite all the naysaying my observations tell me that *most* people on this forum fall into this camp, as do I. My every day car for the last year has been a 450, and while still a bit on the thirsty side it's really quite practical. I have my rear bench and seatback removed at the moment for the same reason as I was moving my garage - throw a blanket down to protect the metal from scratches and you can fit quite a lot in the back - especially on the long wheelbase chassis!
I agree with item 0 Adam...
It's just that to fully enjoy the characteristics of a 6 9 or any 116, it pays to have as perfect a car as you can. I don't see anything wrong with using 205 Michelins on a 6.9 for example, in fact the green car had XT-AS's while under previous ownership and it looked and drove just as good. I have to admit however that driving and seeing the beast with the "correct" tires gives you that little extra pleasure.
I for one drove my 78 450SEL for 3 years before embarking on the body restoration and felt good about it, paint was marginal,wheels had chips all over, etc... it was a 4-5 out of 10 points, BUT the all important interior looked as good as it does today. My 1980 450SEL in LA is FAR from perfect, bad paint (cracked) on the trunk, chips, dings, a not so pretty engine compartment, decent interior though with some fading on the leather, great wood and chrome. Mechanically delicious and very reliable, do I like driving/owning it, you bet.... but let me say it took years and quite a few $$$ to get it to this point. I bought a beautiful car on the outside at the time but that was hiding a myriad of problems underneath and that's why as with a lot of things in life it all depends on your level of expectation vs the availability of funds. Back in 1999 it was the best I found and could afford so I bit the bullet, but I must admit that after the first huge bill came in and more issues kept popping up I almost gave up and sold the thing....
Having a little more experience today I would say you can probably draw more pleasure from owning a bare bone 280S (must have air though, hehehe...) that is as perfect as you can afford than having an iffy high spec car. Just drive a really tired 6 9 and I am sure you will agree.
As for using an 036 to move house.... I couldn't do it!!! Sacrilege!!! Hehehehe.... I bet you got moved in really quick....
Guys, please don't take my comments as criticism, it is only my opinion based on having driven and owned good and no so good cars.
Tks
Joe
Casey,
Nothing wrong with that... but you have to admit that driving your beautiful red car is an all together different experience isn't it?
I have some friends and know some very important collectors who prefer to have more cars that are 6-7 points than fewer vehicles in the 8-10 category, and that is perfectly ok. Sometimes however as a professional, I have to gauge someone's expectations and give the best advice possible and the good old saying "buy the best you can afford" most of the time applies.
Tks,
Joe
Quote from: adamb on 19 April 2013, 07:57 AM
In a nutshell - buy the car which looks straight for an average amount of money. Neither top dollar showroom queen, nor a project requiring urgent work. For W116s the cost is region specific but I figure that in UK we are talking about around 5000 to 8000 pounds.
I think that if go back to the beginning of the thread, you'll see that this is the point that people are making. In short, it will cost you $20k to turn a $2k into a $10k car and $50k to turn it into a $20k car. So if you're planning on buying projects, then you better get really good at doing all the work yourself or you're better off finding a very presentable driver for $10-12k.
Casey,
I have to stand tall in defense of your choice of car. You wanted rear reclining seats - you have acquired rear reclining seats. You wanted seat heaters, you acquired seat heaters. You chose the CAR you wanted, and condition is something to be dealt with.
I made a similar choice when I bought Max.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/DSC00849-1.jpg)
Here is my reasoning - flawed as it may be. If I am going to the considerable financial, spiritual and mental anguish necessary to own a car of this age (let alone a W116 with hydraulics), I want it to be THE CAR I TRULY WANT OF THAT AGE.
It seems to me some people in the old car hobby want an old car - preferably as new an old car as humanly possible. I on the other hand want THE car. Does this make sense? I'm afraid I'm still childish enough to accept a car with a few warts and age spots (or more than a few) as long as it is the car from the brochure... or has a reclining seat, or is Plum Crazy purple, or whatever it is that turns me ON.
Casey, rock on my friend. Your choice is a great one.
I'd rather buy the cheap car and do the work (that's what I've always done), particularly if it has the features/options that are desirable.
There will always be people who will think this way of thinking is absurd though, as it is far from logical in terms of dollars and cents. It also depends on what sort of standard you are after.
It's also not the way to go if you want to win the concours, unless you have extremely deep pockets, or a lot of time.
That doesn't stop me though! All that matters is that I have the cars I want, and I can happily go about getting them sorted out in due course.
Tim
Quote from: jbrasile on 19 April 2013, 09:09 AM
Nothing wrong with that... but you have to admit that driving your beautiful red car is an all together different experience isn't it?
Indeed, but not in all ways better. The shabby 1974 450SE had it's own special appeals to it, and I could appreciate the overall coarseness. And because it had a fair number of issues, minor things didn't really bother me much. Whereas because the red 450SEL is in so nice of shape, the slightest imperfection or new noise will drive me nuts. Really driving *any* W116 in any condition is a pleasure/adventure. W123's have a totally different feel and just aren't as much fun for me, not to speak of anything newer which I find utterly boring.
QuoteI have some friends and know some very important collectors who prefer to have more cars that are 6-7 points than fewer vehicles in the 8-10 category, and that is perfectly ok. Sometimes however as a professional, I have to gauge someone's expectations and give the best advice possible and the good old saying "buy the best you can afford" most of the time applies.
I should probably clarify that when I say my plans are "complete restoration", that means to *my* standard which is surely lower than a $75k job. Not that driving a $75k restoration wouldn't be a phenomenal experience, but I don't need to be that crazy with it to enjoy it and take well enough care to ensure the car lasts as long as I care to keep it. I think maybe I did myself a disservice by using that phrase above. :P
Quote from: jbrasile on 19 April 2013, 08:55 AM
As for using an 036 to move house.... I couldn't do it!!! Sacrilege!!! Hehehehe.... I bet you got moved in really quick....
Guys, please don't take my comments as criticism, it is only my opinion based on having driven and owned good and no so good cars.
Hehe, sacrilege it may be but I own no other cars at this time. :( A van is used for most things but that was only hired for a day. For the rest of the time the 6.9 did the job. Currently fuel is about US$2.30 per litre so it's not a cheap way to move house.
BTW, I'd love to try out a mint as new 6.9 but I'd give it back soon after. I'll enjoy it but it's not for me. Sometimes flaws are charms.
I am happy with all opinions inc flames :o
Quote from: John Hubertz on 19 April 2013, 09:39 AM
It seems to me some people in the old car hobby want an old car - preferably as new an old car as humanly possible. I on the other hand want THE car. Does this make sense? I'm afraid I'm still childish enough to accept a car with a few warts and age spots (or more than a few) as long as it is the car from the brochure... or has a reclining seat, or is Plum Crazy purple, or whatever it is that turns me ON.
I agree completely. I fully admit that some of my desires are childish and seem a bit crazy, but I'd rather be be childlike and be able to more fully enjoy it than unhappy. I'm not even fully disclosing some crazy notions I have in the back of my mind for this car at this point. :P
"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them." ~ Henry David Thoreau
Quote from: adamb on 19 April 2013, 11:58 AM
Hehe, sacrilege it may be but I own no other cars at this time. :( A van is used for most things but that was only hired for a day. For the rest of the time the 6.9 did the job. Currently fuel is about US$2.30 per litre so it's not a cheap way to move house.
I have personally realized, via various abuse to my different cars, that I really need a pickup truck. If I buy any other vehicle this year, I expect it will be a truck. During moving my garage, in addition to numerous carloads of stuff, I hired a guy with a truck to make 9 trips for me - 8 with a car in tow on a rented trailer in addition to a truckload of parts, and the ninth just to get some larger items that I couldn't fit in my car (didn't really want to tie anything on to the top of the red car, which is the only one I have registered currently). In addition I've had to pay to have certain larger items like an antique refrigerator and piano delivered to my house, and through the winter I was paying to have firewood delivered which with a truck and/or trailer I could have gone and picked up myself to save money.
I am pretty sure that owning a truck, as well as a trailer that can transport a car, would be a very wise investment for me over the long-term. I'm still halfway tempted to turn the rear-end damaged 450SE into a pickup. ;) I'd really like a large 8-foot bed and stronger suspension though.
Quote from: John Hubertz on 19 April 2013, 09:39 AM
It seems to me some people in the old car hobby want an old car - preferably as new an old car as humanly possible. I on the other hand want THE car. Does this make sense? I'm afraid I'm still childish enough to accept a car with a few warts and age spots (or more than a few) as long as it is the car from the brochure... or has a reclining seat, or is Plum Crazy purple, or whatever it is that turns me ON.
This is the way I think. I'd rather have a car with the exact color and options that I want with flaws, than a perfect condition car that doesn't have the color or options I want. If the options you want are extremely rare, it really narrows it down. But, if you are able to get exactly the car you want and have it be in great condition at a good price, then that would be amazing.
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 19 April 2013, 12:26 PM
This is the way I think. I'd rather have a car with the exact color and options that I want with flaws, than a perfect condition car that doesn't have the color or options I want. If the options you want are extremely rare, it really narrows it down. But, if you are able to get exactly the car you want and have it be in great condition at a good price, then that would be amazing.
I have very specifically wanted a 6.9 chassis (because 4-wheel hydropneumatic suspension) and electric reclining rear seat option (because custom metal for the option under the seat) for quite a while.
I would have taken a 450SEL with reclining rear seat option had I been able to find one, but that would have meant cutting out the metal I wanted and welding it into some other chassis. Likewise I expect there would be some difficulty trying to adapt a normal spring suspension chassis to accommodate hydropneumatic, plus the matter of hunting up all the suspension parts to retrofit it. So I figured I at least needed to get some 6.9 at some point, and figured that if I was to get a fuel-hungry 6.9 I'd like a euro-spec model to enjoy the extra power. Plus I'd really like to pull that behemoth of an engine and tinker away at it...
I'm really very happy with the way things have worked out - I found an affordable deal on a euro-spec 6.9 that appears to not have significant rust, it has the reclining rear seat option, and I've got a free-for-the-cost-of-transport US-spec 6.9 coming at some point soon which already has the drivetrain pulled and blown top end so I can put that on a workbench and tinker away to my heart's content without disturbing the euro engine, and have a load of good parts.
Obviously there's several schools of thought on old cars. If you combine the ideas that (1) you should buy the best you can afford, with (2) a car that has all the options you really want, you may be waiting all your life and never find it.
Personally I think it's like going to a store and seeing something unique that you love. Um and ah to the point that you initially walk away and it's almost guaranteed it won't be there on your return. Some say it's fate and that you were never meant to have it, but I find that's only a good way to console yourself after the disappointment. It's happened to me enough to know that if I love it, I have to buy it there and then.
Good old Mercs are becoming very hard to find so my motto is; (1) if it's the model you want, (2) you can provide undercover protection for it without having to sleep in a tent, (3) you'll still be able to pay for essential bills, (4) it won't destroy your relationship, (5) it's not badly rusted in the critical areas, then do what it says on Ebay and BUY IT NOW! ;) :) ;D
Good old Mercs are becoming very hard to find so my motto is; (1) if it's the model you want, (2) you can provide undercover protection for it without having to sleep in a tent, (3) you'll still be able to pay for essential bills, (4) it won't destroy your relationship, (5) it's not badly rusted in the critical areas, then do what it says on Ebay and BUY IT NOW! ;) :) ;D
[/quote]
Printed this and put it above my workbench now..words to live by.
Thanks very much! :)
A few years back I read a quote from a Sean Fardell (?) in an Aussie magazine called Street Machine. He said, "I'm not a perfectionist, everyone else is just rough"!! I printed that one out and it was stuck on the wall in my office until we moved. Time to put it back up me thinks.... ;)
Looks like a great car. Interesting how the original owner chose not to have any badges on the back- never knew that this was an option. Goodness, if I had the $$$$ to get a 450SEL 6.9, I'd want other people to know it!
Quote from: entresz on 26 April 2013, 09:26 AM
Looks like a great car. Interesting how the original owner chose not to have any badges on the back- never knew that this was an option. Goodness, if I had the $$$$ to get a 450SEL 6.9, I'd want other people to know it!
Debadging was quite common then, and it still is today in Germany. My red 6.9 was also ordered without badges.
From what I heard the "badge delete" option was and still is in vogue in Europe for two opposite reasons:
1) Those with a luxury car that opted for the smallest engine available in order to save on road tax and fuel don't want anyone to know they "couldn't or wouldn't" pay for the larger engines...
2) Those with means don't not want to flaunt their status or attract attention from law enforcement.
That's what I've been told anyway....
Tks,
Joe
I fairly commonly see newer Mercedes driving around without badges here in the eastern USA. I plan on changing the trunk lid to an aluminum one along with the hood though, and would like both the 450SEL and 6.9 badges in euro style. I don't feel not having a badge is going to prevent law enforcement encounters...
Either that or I'll just go with no badges to keep the car looking original. Either way I think I'll have to have the existing "300SD" and "Turbodiesel" holes filled, and new ones put in to fit the "450SEL" and "6.9" logos. I guess the left one may be the same, but I haven't checked. I have a NOS "450SEL" badge at the ready; now just need to get a new "6.9" one. :)
Car arrived in tow on Friday night without any incident. Transporter complained that it was a lot of weight on the tongue being loaded front-forward and was heavier than any other cars he's used to towing (the heaviest of which being a 300TD), but didn't have any real issues with the load. Served up a nice dinner for him and his family members that were along for the ride, and let them get some rest for the night. In the morning we proceeded to unload it at my garage, which proved a bit of an ordeal. The front had been blocked up with wood blocks since it was loaded in California, and while that had proven sufficient enough to get it loaded, I believe the fluid had shifted more to the space in the front, because the rear end was sitting very low - according to the transporter lower than it had been when they loaded it. When we slowly worked on backing it off the trailer, it became obvious that the center of the exhaust was going to scrape bottom, but we averted that by placing some spare timber under the front wheels so that it lifted the car up a bit higher as it came off the trailer. Then as it came to the bottom of the wooden 2x8 ramps, it became obvious that the back of the car was going to scrape bottom, so we took the same approach of just putting some spare timber in the path of the rear wheels, which lifted up the back end enough not to touch the ground. In addition to help the angle be as minimal as possible, we'd unhitched the trailer and used my floor jack to lift the front of the trailer up as high as possible - as the car came off the back end, it lifted up a foot or so higher even than that. It was slow, careful work, but the car is now successfully sitting unscathed in my garage. The paint is pretty dire - I didn't realize this color originally had a clearcoat, although nearly all of it is now gone. The rust around the top of the sunroof is the only real corrosion concern I've seen, and it's not too bad; but I have yet to really go over the car with a fine-toothed comb.
It's definitely been sitting a long time. The interior is in surprisingly good shape. Unfortunately the rear door panels got some indentations from the back seat being stuffed with spare parts I bought from Squiggle Dog en route, but they might come back out on their own. I have very good replacement black panels, but unfortunately from a short wheelbase model. First thing after it was unloaded, I emptied out the back seat and connected a jump starter to the battery terminals so as to test out the rear seat. It really doesn't move that much - just a few inches, but it's really nice and the rear headrests which happen to have sheepskin covers make it very nice to recline in. The velour condition is great, though probably a bit faded from sun exposure compared to what it was originally. Might be worth redying the skins. The sunroof didn't want to open but after a little persuasion with my fists on the rear of the top, it proceeded to open all the way without issue. Unfortunately it didn't want to close - there's no motor sound when I press the switch so suspect perhaps the switch itself is bad. I suppose I will try the manual override and/or swapping the switch later.
The aftermarket sound system sounded quite nice. I'm not really a fan of the modifications to the door panels and have yet to see if the door frames themselves have been molested underneath, but it sounds very nice. The power antenna actually works properly, though it appears to be the type that is only extended or not without a manual control on the dash - in place of the manual control is a fanfare horn switch! I'm not sure how to work it though - I tried pressing the regular horn button with the switch in either position and it sounded the same (quite loud). Does anybody know how these work?
Also how do you operate the headlight washers/wipers? I tried hitting the usual washer button but it didn't turn on the headlight wipers. There's no washer fluid in the system though, or maybe the motors are dead.
While testing stuff, smoke started coming out of the broken ballast resistor - it is cracked and the coil inside which was glowing red was exposed. Well now I know where it is, anyways. Are these 6.9-specific and/or expensive to replace new? The wiring harness damage is pretty obvious, as there's exposed wire with the insulation chewed away. So will need to replace that too - no surprise there.
I need to get some wheel dollies and perhaps a winch to shuffle cars around my garage more effectively, but hopefully soon can get things arranged a little better, the 450SE rusty chassis hauled out to a scrapyard, and this put up on jack stands for further work. I can drain the gas tank easily enough, but how does one purge old gas out of the fuel lines going from the tank to the engine?
The ballast resistors are the same as any CIS car, there should be a foot operated pump for the headlight washer system. It's the mechanical type with a diaphragm next to the parking brake.
Good luck with the project
Quote from: alabbasi on 29 April 2013, 01:46 PM
The ballast resistors are the same as any CIS car, there should be a foot operated pump for the headlight washer system. It's the mechanical type with a diaphragm next to the parking brake.
Just like the regular windshield washer switch on early W116's and W115's?
Yep
Casey,
The fanfare horns or highway horns have a " fiamm" style tone while the regular horns are the classic MB, you flip the switch and either one should sound when you press the horn pad on the steering wheel, that's all there is to it. The fanfares are mounted further back near the front subframe, they are shapped like a "horn".
Euro cars do not have the antenna height switch.
To operate the headlight washer/wipers, turn on the headlights with the key in the on position and push the regular windshield washer lever, h/l wipers will cycle and water will come out of the bumper nozzles. Please note you have an additional electric pump that supplies water to the h/l washer system.
Tks
Joe
Congratulations! I'm sure transporting it was a challenge, but am glad it arrived fine. You might be able to get the dents out of the door panels with a heat gun; but not letting it get hot enough to cause the surface to become glossy. I had some indentations in my rear door panels from when I hauled stuff once, but in about a month they worked themselves out.
I hope the parts are satisfactory, and look forward to seeing the 6.9 progress.
Euro cars had the fanfare horns removed and the switch disabled. Thanks DOT...
Later model 6.9's have a washer activated by pressing the end of the control stalk, if I recall. The wipers/washers will cycle only with the headlamps on, as Joe has indicated.
Quote from: wbrian63 on 30 April 2013, 06:58 AM
Euro cars had the fanfare horns removed and the switch disabled. Thanks DOT...
I still have the original lights and bumpers though. Also the Swiss fog light wiring appears intact as I can turn on the fog lights with the headlights off, which doesn't work on my other 116's. If the rear fog light is there though it is burnt out...one of the tail lights isn't working either...
Are those blue horns in the engine bay the fanfare horns or something else?
The car also has a radar detector installed.
If there was a DOT-compliant modification to the fanfare horns done, do you know how to undo it?
I'd like the adjustable power antenna like US-spec cars had, but I am assuming that this requires a wiring harness with more wires - I've seen two different sizes of plugs for the Hirshmann power antennas, though I'm not sure those were both from W116's, and presumed it was because the smaller plug didn't support manual control. I'll have to compare the antenna in the 6.9 to a 300SD one or something. Of course even if I were to swap the wiring harness the question of where to locate the extra dash switch still remains.
I'd still really like to find a headlight level adjustment setup for a 116 (http://forum.w116.org/shop/wtb-headlight-switch-trim-with-hole-for-level-switch/), most notably this trim piece along with appropriate headlight housings:
(http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/61197d1227320728-sale-euro-vacuum-headlight-control-switch-switch.jpg)
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 29 April 2013, 07:43 PM
Congratulations! I'm sure transporting it was a challenge, but am glad it arrived fine. You might be able to get the dents out of the door panels with a heat gun; but not letting it get hot enough to cause the surface to become glossy. I had some indentations in my rear door panels from when I hauled stuff once, but in about a month they worked themselves out.
I hope the parts are satisfactory, and look forward to seeing the 6.9 progress.
I thought about the heat gun idea as I have one, but I've tended to be overzealous with the heat in the past so am reluctant to try the idea. I think I will just wait a few weeks and then if they're still not out will probably pull the panel and press from the reverse side while carefully applying heat (not too close). May be safer just to buy an old hair dryer from a thrift store or something, which won't run the risk of melting things. Not that big of a deal - I don't think replacement black panels should be that terribly hard to find. The rear windshield was placed in the 6.9 against the rear seatback and then seats and stuff piled in the back seat against it - looked a bit worrisome but it made it intact! I haven't unpacked the trunk or front seat yet. The worst thing that I did during transport was when moving a huge mirror that barely fit into the back seat with the rear windows down to accommodate the upper corners. Though it managed to just fit without denting the door panels, during loading I chipped off a piece from the red plastic B-pillar base trim on the passenger side. :( Just goes to show that one can never have too much replacement plastic trim at the ready.
Speaking of windshields, do you know if the rear windshield with vertical defrosters can be found (even new) *without* the green glass? Also was non-green glass an option on SEL's and thus the rear windows? It may sound funny but I'd quite like to replace all the glass on a car (most likely my 450SEL) with the more transparent glass without the insulative properties. As the weather is warming here I find myself rolling down the windows sometimes and really prefer the view untinted.
P.S. Does anybody have a good quality picture of what a nice pristine unfaded black velour interior *should* look like in bright lighting? I'm uncertain whether mine is faded at all...but if it is I'm thinking it may be a good idea to pull the skins and redye them. I suppose I may be able to detect a difference between the front and rear seats if I pull the front sheepskin covers - the front seats and rear headrests have been covered at least for the last few years that it was parked outside in the sun but the rest of the rear seat was not.
Tinted glass was a luxury option on European cars back in the 80's and earlier. However , I would expect it to be standard on S Class. Finding anything now that's not got the factory tint will be next to impossible, and if you do get it, I would expect it to be a low quality aftermarket glass from China.
Your velour was probably more of a charcoal gray then black. Roll the front seat all the way back and check the part where the top and bottom seat cushions meet as there should be no fade there.
Quote from: alabbasi on 30 April 2013, 09:08 AM
Your velour was probably more of a charcoal gray then black. Roll the front seat all the way back and check the part where the top and bottom seat cushions meet as there should be no fade there.
*nods* It's definitely more of a grey now but I suspected that was as-designed. Good suggestion about the front seat parts that don't get any wear or sun exposure... I'll check it out later. :)
QuoteTinted glass was a luxury option on European cars back in the 80's and earlier. However , I would expect it to be standard on S Class. Finding anything now that's not got the factory tint will be next to impossible, and if you do get it, I would expect it to be a low quality aftermarket glass from China.
I know that some low-spec 280S's and such in some markets (probably not North America) got non-tinted glass. Just not sure if there was a 280SEL or something in any markets that had the non-tinted option. Would prefer to find used non-tinted glass in good shape rather than aftermarket stuff.
Casey,
Tinted glass was optional on all 116's in Europe as far as I know, it is my understanding that even 6.9's could be had with clear glass, at least I have seen pictures of early cars configured like that. The EPC shows that up to the 450SEL clear was std and tinted was optional (code 592), 6.9's show as having tinted glass only but as I mentioned, early pictures show otherwise.
As for the velour, "black" was actually charcoal gray, they will fade a little with age but even when new they were not very dark.
Tks,
Joe
Sometimes it can be really difficult to tell the difference between green tinted and non-tinted glass (at least for me) unless it's in just the right lighting. I did recently discover, though, that, at least in the 1960s, the glass that is tinted reads "SEKURIT-F", while the clear glass reads simply "SEKURIT", without the "F". This may or may not apply to the W116.
I sold my roommate a set of green tinted glass for his 1965 W111 220S. After discovering that the green glass has the F-code, I looked at all of the glass to make sure I sold him the real deal, and it turns out the right front door glass is not tinted, meaning it must have broken and been replaced at some point. Doh! So, I owe him a door glass. I was looking through my wrecking yard photographs and was able to see that the fintail in the wrecking yard had green glass. I went to the yard and found the car had already been removed and crushed. So, now I've got to pay $50 for one on eBay.
In other news, yesterday I scored a perfect condition W116 rear windshield with no delamination. It had a fresh, brand-new seal on it. After removing the trim, I saw that the seal had the Mercedes star on it. I was able to remove the windshield and seal as a unit without damaging the seal, so yay!
Also, that non-tinted (I think) rear windshield I sold you is tempered glass, so it will never delaminate.
Quote from: Squiggle Dog on 30 April 2013, 12:53 PM
In other news, yesterday I scored a perfect condition W116 rear windshield with no delamination. It had a fresh, brand-new seal on it. After removing the trim, I saw that the seal had the Mercedes star on it. I was able to remove the windshield and seal as a unit without damaging the seal, so yay!
Score! I need a few of those myself. :/
Quote
Also, that non-tinted (I think) rear windshield I sold you is tempered glass, so it will never delaminate.
Yes, but it's something I'd use on a car I don't care as much about and I'm not sure when/if I'll even put it to use realistically but the price was right - for my personal drivers I really prefer the vertical rear defroster windshields, and properly maintaining the gaskets...
Those blue trumpets are aftermarket units Casey. The original fanfare (highway) ones were supported by a bar near the front of the engine sump.
Hmmm... I have seen several W116s in the wrecking yards over the past few years with the exclamation point switch on the dashboard. I never did think to see if the horns were there.
Glad it arrived safe and sound. You mentioned wanting a switch bezel with headlamp adjustment..it would be redundant in the 6.9 since the car levels itself ;)
Quote from: MB_Mike on 02 May 2013, 08:03 AM
Glad it arrived safe and sound. You mentioned wanting a switch bezel with headlamp adjustment..it would be redundant in the 6.9 since the car levels itself ;)
Really? Even front-to-back, not just left to right?
I'd still like one for the 450SEL, in any case...
The self levelling IS front-rear, NOT left-right.
The front and rear suspensions independently try to maintain their setpoint height. If the car leans to the side, it is usually due to a collapsed strut top mount or suspension bushes. The hydraulics can't compensate for that.
I don't think the adjustable headlight system was to adjust for load, but for road conditions. It gave you the ability to really throw your high beams way out there in open country. I could be wrong - they never described the feature in the USA brochures I have.
The adjustable headlight system is a must in every new car in Germany (and maybe other European countries too) since the early 80's of the last century. The reason for such a system was indeed to adjust for load, nothing else.
I'd be focussing on getting the car running before you do any modifications...
Quote from: oversize on 06 May 2013, 12:26 AM
I'd be focussing on getting the car running before you do any modifications...
I'm not doing any modifications at present... I'm not really doing anything with the car at present - it's going to just sit parked and wait until I have more time and funds available. Also need to get my garage better organized after the move so that will take priority. I need to get some wheel dollies at a minimum to shuffle things around better, then get it into a more long-term spot in the garage, and put up on jack stands. I also need to find a hose for the exhaust pipe so I can run it outside and work on getting the car running without worrying about fumes.
Some further questions though:
- The headlight wipers do work with the lamps on. I need to replace the rubbers on the wipers though - where can I buy them?
- Although I can turn the fog lights on without the headlights (not possible on US-spec cars), I cannot have both the fog lights and low beams on at the same time (possible with US-spec) nor the high beams and fog lights at the same time (not possible with US-spec). I'd like it to be such that I can have lows+fogs or highs+fogs if I want. Any wiring advice?
- There is an extra burlwood trim piece installed behind the main center console shifter surround trim piece. It looks like pictures I've seen from cars which had an added Becker accessory with a dial switch mounted there. Mine just has a square piece of black plastic mounted there, with a red light in the center. It looks factory because the carpet insert for the center console is shorter to accommodate this addition. Sadly there is a carphone mounted into the remaining space of the center console - screwed through the carpet into the center console trim.
- The hat deck is modified to have two rectangular speakers same as mounted on the front doors on either side, and a large subwoofer in the center. I'm a bit worried about possible modifications to the metal underneath but not too concerned about the hat deck as the carpeting is brown (?!) rather than black, and melted by the sun into an unpleasant hard texture, so it needs replaced anyways.
- The blue horns are Fiamm (made in Italy) brand, and not connected to anything. They have rubber hoses connected to a Y-joint and then a single rubber hose going to nothing towards the front of the vehicle.
- There's a mysterious "on/off" toggle switch mounted on the left side of the glove box interior.
- The wiring is in really bad shape, with exposed ends of wires coming right out of the front of the glove box, the wire connection to the brake fluid reservoir severed, and some other exposed/severed wires that seem to connect to the same harness. I wonder if the wiring on a D-jet 450 is the same, because I don't think I've removed that from my parts car yet.
- I thought I'd turn the key and see what happened, for fun only, not expecting anything really. The starter just made a loud clicking noise - the engine didn't turn at all.
- Can somebody provide a picture of what the fanfare horns look like or where exactly I should look for them?
- The oil on the dipstick seems very thick - the portion showing oil looked about twice as thick as the plain metal stick. It doesn't look dirty but I have to wonder why it is so thick-looking. I reckon I'll change that as soon as I can get the car started and warmed up. I'm a bit confused about the dip stick though - it seems to have three markings on it very far apart from one another, and as the stick doesn't go down into a tube how does one ensure they are getting an accurate measure? I suppose I need to find an owner's manual in English - perhaps the US-spec 6.9 coming later this month will include one. Should be able to look up an oil change manual on the library...
CASEY IF YOU GO TO THE M 100 SIGHT AND LOOK AT MY 77 EURO, YOU WILL SE THE HORNS, THE POST SHOULD SAY ROCKER PANELS,,
Quote from: Casey on 06 May 2013, 08:17 AM
The oil on the dipstick seems very thick - the portion showing oil looked about twice as thick as the plain metal stick. It doesn't look dirty but I have to wonder why it is so thick-looking. I reckon I'll change that as soon as I can get the car started and warmed up. I'm a bit confused about the dip stick though - it seems to have three markings on it very far apart from one another, and as the stick doesn't go down into a tube how does one ensure they are getting an accurate measure? I suppose I need to find an owner's manual in English - perhaps the US-spec 6.9 coming later this month will include one. Should be able to look up an oil change manual on the library...
Assuming that what's in the crankcase and reservoir was originally standard oil, it sounds like it's turned to sludge. Do yourself a favour, drain everything and fill with generic 10W40, remove all plugs and turn the engine by hand without the starter.
For an abandoned car it's not unusual that the starter is not working properly. On mine occasionally the solenoid on the starter motor fails to engage when the engine is very hot after a long run. I've had a spare M100 starter motor on my shelf for a while for when it eventually goes kaput.
Quote from: arcijack on 06 May 2013, 03:39 PM
CASEY IF YOU GO TO THE M 100 SIGHT AND LOOK AT MY 77 EURO, YOU WILL SE THE HORNS, THE POST SHOULD SAY ROCKER PANELS,,
You mean this?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-O_v4GerB5_I/UYCT4fO2h1I/AAAAAAAADSE/5IfpW5dO9eQ/s912/007%2520%25281%2529.JPG)
Those horns look exactly like mine, just mounted very differently. Are they Fiamm brand also? What does the rubber hose from them going to the right attach to?
yes they are identical to yours, the hose has been cut, not sure where it goes
i did a little research on horns, they were primarily used on ferrari cars and the hose goes to a small compressor, that looks like a coil, might want to loo look around in the bay, might be hiding some where close to where they are mounted
Drain all that tar out and change the oil filter before you turn the engine over... you don't want that crap circulating through the engine.
Try rotating the engine with the spark plugs removed. I wouldn't rule out seizure due to water ingress.
I presume the battery is fully charged, a DIN88, and the terminal clamps were tight?
The engine oil is supposed to be checked with the engine running, and at operating temperature. Do this once you have changed the oil, and topped off to most of the required quantity. Adjust level with the car running.
Tim
From what I've been able to tell from EPC, fanfare horns look more like the typical US-spec shell-shaped items. They mount to the frame under the car behind the front bumper.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/3BCDD59F_zps032cc2d4.jpg) (http://s399.photobucket.com/user/wbrian63/media/3BCDD59F_zps032cc2d4.jpg.html)
Standard MB horns of this era look like a pie-pan, and mount in front of the radiator:
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp73/wbrian63/E4376F4B_zps332b7c55.jpg) (http://s399.photobucket.com/user/wbrian63/media/E4376F4B_zps332b7c55.jpg.html)
Several years ago, I purchased from Germany what was supposed to be a OEM set of fanfare horns. Came in an MB box, if I recall. They don't have the grill-covered openings, but they are shaped similarly to the picture above.
Brian, you are correct. 6.9s optioned with the 'town and country' horn system had the standard circular horns, plus the snail shell type in your EPC pic.
The FIAMM air horns were not factory, but seem to have been popular in the aftermarket. I've seen quite a number of 6,9's with them, including one of mine. There is no uniformity in these installations on these cars, further suggesting that it is aftermarket. Personally, I think they sound shyte and very un-MB-like.
Read here some notes on changing the oil in a 6.9 :
http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/450-sel-6-9-water-pump-and-oil-change/msg111147/#msg111147 (http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/450-sel-6-9-water-pump-and-oil-change/msg111147/#msg111147)
A few loading/trip pictures:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Road%20Trip/road_trip_2_001_zps75c64c23.jpg?t=1368132209)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Road%20Trip/road_trip_2_002_zps1702728e.jpg?t=1368132220)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Road%20Trip/road_trip_2_004_zpsf84b184f.jpg?t=1368132240)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Road%20Trip/road_trip_2_008_zpsbf757072.jpg?t=1368132251)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Road%20Trip/road_trip_2_009_zpsfd351ac0.jpg?t=1368132278)
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/Road%20Trip/road_trip_2_022_zpsedd8d816.jpg?t=1368132198)
Beautiful and nicely-optioned. There sure are a lot of extra parts. ;)
That's one scary trailer and winch setup! :o
Here is a picture of the mysterious extra trim and light installed in the center console. Can anybody tell me what it is? There's a carphone mounted behind it:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/0a5b76f17914be4d87453837da0948f8_zps05926997.jpg)
Extra switch for unknown purpose installed in the glove box - what country is the phone number on the sticker from?:
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/b1bb23d49f1959a636a3363fee9ff28a_zpsf11a1952.jpg)
I found this ridiculous flashlight at a thrift store for $10. It has a rechargeable 12 volt lead-acid battery and appears to use a car headlight bulb for the light source - there are two switches in the picture - one which appears to turn on the "low beam" portion of the bulb and the other which appears to turn on the "high beam". Both can be turned on at the same time.
(http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/cshobe/Cars/1978%20Euro%206_9/b63df69ab45ea73202b5722a69469bb8_zpsd87938b8.jpg)
I have such a switch in the glove box, it's for my aftermarket air condition (on-off) from 1980, may'be it has the same function in your car. The Phone number is from Stuttgart in Germany, it's a number of Mercedes-Benz, that you can call in case of a breakdown of the car.
The extra wood trim is a (reused) Part of the so called "Verkehrskurier", an old traffic message system, that was used in Europe until 2003 afair. The plastic trim part and the light are not original parts. You can see the original "Verkehrskurier" in my car: http://forum.w116.org/lounge/the-newbie-from-germany-my-w116-story-(picture-heavy)/ (http://forum.w116.org/lounge/the-newbie-from-germany-my-w116-story-(picture-heavy)/)
Kind regards,
Andreas
Quote from: Casey on 29 April 2013, 12:57 PM
I didn't realize this color originally had a clearcoat, although nearly all of it is now gone.
Actually it doesn't seem it did...only the right rear door has remnants of clearcoating, suggesting it was repainted at some point. Just for fun I detailed a couple square feet on the hood and it the paint polished up quite nicely, though the heavily-oxidized spots required a fair bit of elbow grease. I plan to just repaint the whole car anyways though, and replace the hood and trunk lids with aluminum versions.
The light was probably for the alarm. Today there's lots of tiny LED lights that're extremely bright so there's no need to lug the big old ones around (like the old TVs)