News:

www.W116.org - By the people, for the people!

Main Menu

american 116 style

Started by nathan, 28 July 2007, 06:25 AM

James R

Definitely put on in the factory. I went to the factory in 1981 with my Dad on a M-B club rally (during which I was allowed to sit in a restored W196 and the Pope's 600 Pullman with one throne in the back!!)

My Dad had a brand new 380SL (R107) and we saw hundreds of other SLs including plenty of those on their way to the US with their big, bold bumpers. I used to think they were cool then. Now, excellent engineering or otherwise, I can't help but think they ruin an otherwise svelte design. I still love my Dad's old 380SL, though, even some 25 years after he sold it ! Amazing how childhood memories hang with you isn't it ?
1978 450SEL 6.9 - GONE!

1979 450SEL - GONE!

OzBenzHead

Quote from: michaeld on 30 July 2007, 03:40 AM
Gotta say this [...] them "Nancy boy" Euro bumpers [...] don't hold a candle to the tough-as-nails US bumpers!
I dunno, Michael.  I'm inclined to agree with Nathan about the toughness of the Euro chromies.

My Euro rear bumper has taken full-force hits from two Korean wheelie bins (one Hyundai, one Daewoo) that completely destroyed themselves (i.e. they were written off by their insurers as uneconomical to repair, despite each being only a few months old).

Damage to my 116?

The Hyundai caused the main bumper to warp somewhat, but from more than a couple of metres away you can't tell; the Daewoo pushed the "decorative" upper bumper up to the body, causing two small warps, a thumbnail-sized dent, and a hard-to-find crack in the turn-indicator lens - again, you need to look closely to see it.

Photos soon.  I'll snap them tomorrow.

Given that both collisions happened at estimated impact speeds of approx. 45 and 60 km/h (Benz was stationary both times), I doubt that those (to my eye) ugly black things would have done better.  Although I say "ugly", I don't see them as particularly so from a full-frontal / full rear view, but from the profile view they destroy the car's proportions - unlike the extended bumpers on the 240 series Volvo, which much better complemented the blocky lines of that car.

As for why the US mandated the standard round sealed beams I'm at a total loss, as every review I've read of them indicates that their light output was considerably inferior to that of the Euro lamps.  I reckon it was just the US auto industry doing its damndest, through the government agencies it had in its pockets, to cripple sales of imported, and far superior*, cars.

* Okay, I'll wear the flack for that remark, but in the two years ('82, '83) that I lived and worked in North America, I drove many cars - from Ford Escorts to Olds Cutlasses to Caddies to Pontiac GTOs to those funny-looking AM mini-cars whose name I've forgotten) to a W116 (450SEL) Benz - and not one of those yank tanks could do anything more interesting than go fast in a straight line.  The Benz ate them all for handling (it was only the second Benz I'd ever driven).

The Caddies, GTO, and Benz "belonged" to my Detroit host who was one of the 10 Directors of GM - at the time he was Director of GMAC, the finance arm.  The two GM cars were company cars (changed every two months, with everything logged by the driver for QA purposes); the Benz was his preferred chariot for non-GM-related travel. Even he was convinced that America would never be able to build a car with the quality and qualities of his 116.

The late Oz rally / racing (?) driver Evan Green once wrote (with tongue probably not too firmly in cheek) when reviewing a comparison road test in some US car mag of an E-Type Jag and the then current version of the Mustang, where the reviewer had declared the 'Stang to have handling equal to that of the Jag: "The average American motorist wouldn't know handling if he found it in bed with him".

My Detroit host was of similar opinion.

What is the scariest car I've ever driven?

Probably my 1964 Studebakers (Gran Turismo [Golden Hawk-derived] and Cruiser [Lark VIII-derived - ex-Victorian-police pursuit car]): big V8 donk, extremely light and hopelessly indirect steering where the power assistance remained full on at all speeds (!), absolutely NO handling outside of a dead straight line, and appallingly useless DRUM brakes about the size of a dollar coin. I recall one road test of a Stude of that vintage where it was described as a "real man's car" - and that term was explained as "you need both feet and all your weight on the brake pedal to effect any deceleration".

Woops - I appear to have wandered from the immediate topic, so to reiterate:

Euro bumpers are indeed tough.  And they look as though they belong to the car's intended style.
[img width=340 height=138][url="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/10%20M-B%20Miscellany/OBH_LOGO-2a-1.png"]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/10%20M-B%20Miscellany/OBH_LOGO-2a-1.png[/url][/img]

macatron

michaeld,

I, too, wondered about the US auto industry trying to cripple import sales.  It's a reas as they really struggled in the decade after the oil embargo.  However, the American companies were all still subject to the same regulations so one can't really say that it was obviously unfair.  As a for instance, I know the 1974 Corvette is less collectible than the 1973 because the 1974 had to have bumpers whereas the '73 didn't.


Martin 280s

I don't want to offend anyone here but....I've been following this thread and then had a moment of realisation.....Where does the concept of 'style' combine with 'American' especially when talking about autos in the '70s ???? :D

nathan

i didnt say it martin!

i would have posted earlier but my internet has gone wacky...no offence has been intended to lovers of their US 116s!
however, i dont think it sits well on the car with those big ass rubber lumps...i can also agree that the euro bars take a fair battering as well...i dont know why the US alters the lighs either...they also made the 124 and 126 look like crap as well with those stupid square inserts...can they make german cars better than the germans? or have i missed something!
regards
nathan
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

OzBenzHead

I said yesterday that I'd post some bumper-damage photos today, and here they are.

First - the Daewoo hit:





On the left-hand side, the upper ("decorative") bumper took the brunt of it, so a considerable amount of the shock and resultant damage was transferred to the body panel just under the taillamp. You can see the little dent on the corner (paint missing at the top), the warp under the centre of the lamp, and the buckling just to the front of the lamp.

The upper bumper was pushed forward into the body panel as well as down toward the lower bumper.

The straight yellow lines indicate the crack in the lens.

But oh, you should have seen the Daewoo! Wish I'd had camera with me at the time.

Second - The Hyundai hit:





Under the centre of the lamp you will see a downwards buckling. This is complemented, to the left, with an upward buckling under the number plate.

The right-hand corner of the lower bumper was pushed downward a bit.

And oh - the sight of the Hyundai!
[img width=340 height=138][url="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/10%20M-B%20Miscellany/OBH_LOGO-2a-1.png"]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/10%20M-B%20Miscellany/OBH_LOGO-2a-1.png[/url][/img]

oscar

That's terrible OBH. :(

I don't want to weigh into the bumper debate apart from saying that other pics of Boris gave me the impression it was perfect.  I suppose the bumpers and Boris did fair rather well but I hate seeing bent bumpers.  Mine are imperfect from contact with farm gates and trailers and it bugs me to no end.  I have almost a complete set for replacement but not until other things are fixed.

What can be done about yours regarding third party insurance?  They might be tuff but I'd like to know whether this kind of damage can be fixed?  If a car damaged my bumpers, I'd be chasing new ones (which there aren't any) so I wonder what would happen re insurance.  There was a thread a long time ago about this happening to a US w116 albeit with Euro bumpers, I can't remember how that ended.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

500eguy

The Us Spec bumpers are terrible..... they add weight and look like boat anchors. The Euro Bumpers give the car a very classic and timeless look, where as the us spec bumpers look big and clumsy, they also make the car look like it came from the Nader period of butchering.

Sorry to see that happen to your car, i hope you will get reimbursed.

macatron

Just to clear up mystery, here is the history behind the US lights and bumpers.  I've been busy researching...

Sealed halogen headlamps first appeared on mass-produced cars in the US in about 1940.  At the time, it was a significant advancement in safety.  Because of the significance of this advancement, it was mandated as law that same year.  For whatever reasons, that mandate was never modernised to allow for newer developments in headlight design.  It is ironic that a law once passed to require an improvement in auto design lasted long enough to impede future development.  I suppose things like this happen in the bureaucracy that is the US government.

What this means, however, is that Mercedes would always have known about this requirement when developing the W116.  This feature of the car's design cannot possibly be an add-on.  M-B would have had to have chosen this above all other designs to satisfy the (large) US market for these cars.  Given sales figures for these cars in the US, either they succeeded in picking the right design or a clever ploy by M-B to change US law by importing ugly cars and making consumers cry for change severely backfired.

The story about the bumpers is less one of safety and more one of economics.  Prior to 1974, US bumpers had to be designed to survive impacts 2.5 mph and below with minimum damage.  The damage was limited to dents or gouges of a certain minimum size that I can't recall offhand.  However, in 1974, an economic decision was made in favor of insurance companies that required bumpers to experience similar damage at twice that speed, 5 mph.  The logic behind this is that insurance claims would drop if all the claims filed based on damage that occured between 2.5 and 5 mph no longer happened.  In reality, this represented a small drop and the 5 mph requirement was abandoned for the original 2.5 mph in about 1982.

If these bumpers were something tacked on and never intended in the original design (which is surely the case) why were they never modified?  How long can it take to re-design a bumper?  Why did this design persist for so long?  These bumpers were big even by 1970s standards.  I would love to know what I am missing.  However, I'm guessing they weren't so obvious in their time as they are now and buyers simply put up with them.  As long as they put up with them, M-B didn't need to invest the money tooling up for a new design midway into a model run.

Anyway, I am sensitive to these design features.  I think they are cool in the way a time capsule is.  They represent ideas long-abandoned in favor of the newest best thing.  These design features tell a story of people's values at a given point in history - right or wrong though they may have been.

Anyway, I guess I mostly wanted to go on record to say that my research has brought me an understanding and that understanding has brought satisfaction.  What's done is done.  When I restore the car, I'll keep it the way it's always been, 5 mph bumpers, four headlights, and all.

michaeld

Quote from: nathan on 30 July 2007, 04:19 AM
Maca, Michael, John
i would never (ok maybe not never but close to) intentionally intend to disrespect a colleague 116er...so apologies if anyone is insluted!  my thoughts, as an aussie where chrome is beautiful, is that these things just do not blend with the car and detract from its design...certainly, im sure they can take a battering, but i also attest that the chrome bumpers can take a hammering to (from personal experience)...im also uncertain why the lights were tinkered with...not just the 116, but also on blasphemies such as the 124 and 126 - with those horrible square inserts...
my 2c (now 1.9 US cents!)

Nathan,

I'm sorry if I even gave the impression that I was offended.  Not so in the least.

I agree that the Euro w116s have a more streamlined look, and that the original w116 design would certainly have had the Euro bumpers.

On a note to your post and Ozbenz, it frankly never once occurred to me that the Euro bumpers might be as tough as the U.S. version.

This frankly comes as a surprise to me; if the Euro bumpers did in fact "measure up" in the crash standard set by the US government, then why would they have had to be modified/replaced by Mercedes-Benz?  The federal standard mandated that the bumpers measure up to a performance standard, not that they "must by law look big and ugly."

I'd be interested in hearing more about this.

OzBenzHead

Michaeld:  Not sure - in fact totally ignorant - of the facts re official collision resistance of the Euro bumpers, but the damage to mine, pictured above, was at 45 km/h and 60 km/h impacts - albeit at strangely offset angles rather than square-on.

I'm sure the angle of impact is a very important factor.
[img width=340 height=138][url="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/10%20M-B%20Miscellany/OBH_LOGO-2a-1.png"]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/OzBenzHead/10%20M-B%20Miscellany/OBH_LOGO-2a-1.png[/url][/img]

John Hubertz

One item I forgot to mention,

The round USA headlights were mandated by law as in the 1950s and 1960s (perhaps later) ALL filling stations were required to stop two and four-headlamp replacement bulbs.  The sealed-beam guaranteed light quality at all times, and one need only look at a late-model "styled" lens made of plastic, or one of our 116s with poor lamp service to realize that right now, ALL 4 headlight cars have adequate light, but not all euro lamp cars can throw light due to corrosion, seal leakage and interior fouling of the unsealed system.

I can read sign shapes a 1/4 mile further in my benz then in my lincoln, as the plastic lenses are lightly fogged and I cannot afford to invest $800 in a new pair on a car that is depreciating.

John Hubertz
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
(Hunter S. Thompson) 

1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
[img width=68 height=73][url="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg"]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg[/url][/img]

michaeld


"What did you say about the appearance of my daddy's bumpers?  Come closer so I can hear you.  No.  I won't bite you.  Cross my heart.  Just come closer so I can hear what you said....  No, really; I won't bite you.  If I bite you you can call me a liar."

I'm not surprised that the Germans built their Euro bumpers well.  These were people who tended to pretty much over-engineer just about everything.  But I would still be surprised if the Euro bumpers offer the same amount of toughness as the US version: as 500eguy put it ("they add weight and look like boat anchors") - albeit somewhat disparigingly - US bumpers are heavier.  And if I'm going to get in a crash, and I get to choose between a larger, heavier bumper and a smaller, lighter bumper, well... let's just say I won't have to ponder too long.

Quote from: Martin 280s on 30 July 2007, 04:38 PM
I don't want to offend anyone here but....I've been following this thread and then had a moment of realisation.....Where does the concept of 'style' combine with 'American' especially when talking about autos in the '70s ???? :D

"Et tu, Brutus?"

I can offer one slightly salty comment here: Yes, it is quite true that much American style is crap.  But it is also true that America remains far and away the most copied nation in the world.  One can only imagine - given the fact that so much American style is crap - how utterly, abysmally crappy the rest of the world's styles must be given that "Americana" is so overwhelmingly influential! ;)

I would LOVE to see some genuine cultural style emerge.  But it has been a thing in precious short supply the world over.

Actually, I LOVE 70s cars.  I've always seen them as underappreciated, undervalued, durable, well-built cars with big, overbuilt (even though robbed of power by lower mixtures and smog equipment) engines and transmissions.  I personally think the REAL crappy years occurred in the early 80s.  In fact, the reason I bought my 77 450SEL was because I'd already had good luck with other (American) 70s cars.  I wasn't afraid of the 77 Mercedes because 70s American quality had all ready impressed me.  I still see an awful lot of 70s cars on the road: stop and think about it; cars still on the road after well over 30 years.  That's a real accomplishment!

I've had a soft spot for American cars ever since my parents bought a brand new 1976 Buick Roadmaster station wagon.  Oh that was exciting!  The 70 Ford Galaxie 500 with its 429 ci (390 horses and 490 lbs of twist) I bought was WAY too cool.  And the 73 Pontiac Grandville with that 455 c.i. and that Turbo-hydromatic 400 I've got now?  It's a lot of fun to drive (VERY different from the 450SEL, but fun; I get on the freeway and that torque is SO fun), and I love the styling.  Pontiacs have this thing about a prominent nose cone with a cool radiator grill that extends over and under the bumper.  I like the lines of the body.

70s (American car) styling was unique to its era.  In its day, of course, it was "mod."  Today the squared-off body looks dated - and the 70s-built w116s look astonishingly modern in contrast (but they are so futuristic on every level) - but at least those 70s American cars HAD style.  You can glance at one and recognize one for what it is.  You could still look at a parking lot, and tell all the Fords from the Chevys and Dodges, etc.  And you could even easily identify most of the models.  They had personality, in that every make and model clearly stood out from every other.  Those days ended - and never came back - from the 80s.


nathan

amecian style is the most copied in the world?  i think not my friend!
if we are talking about auto design, there is no doubt that benz has been absolutely hammered in the last decade...every flippin lexus out has repliaced the sclass (even if they do seem to copy the last sclass when a new ones out!)

as for style/fashion...just coz beckham now lives in the states, doesnt mean he;s a yank...that oddball dude seems to be replicated by bloomin everyone...
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te

Martin 280s

#29
Unfortunately, the emulation of Americana is global. But, there was a time when other culutres and styles were de riguer.
I think styles are copied because of the dominance of the economy at the time. If we go back to Roman times the Empire set the standards. More recently, in Brazil, the Portuguese were the style leaders at first as they 'discovered' Brazil, then came the invasion of the Japanese, German, Italian and Spanish immigrants bringing their cultures and influences after them the British came with OUR engineering and railway technology and we influenced a whole region.

Who knows, maybe one day the Chinese will be style gurus!