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Advice on Five Gear 280SE

Author Topic: Advice on Five Gear 280SE  (Read 8435 times)

Casey

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #15 on: 29 January 2012, 08:45 PM »
D-Jet has on advantage, if anyone was thinking of ditching the analog electronic box and going the MeagSquirt route it's possible to use existing injectors and temp sensors, and adding a throttle position pot is easy.
I've been curious about that route...what are the gains that come from it, and what's an approximate cost to do the job right?

TJ 450

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #16 on: 30 January 2012, 04:50 AM »
I've not had the opportunity to purchase a D-Jet car other than the first W116 I ever drove... A South African 350SE. I ended up with the K-Jet 450SEL with K-Jet and got to know that system.

I really don't know what people are on about with the Solex either, other than that they are easily warped. They appear to be a neat unit, albeit of French origin.

I reckon it's all what you're used to, but I tend to agree with MT, Koan et al, K-Jet is bound to be more reliable in most cases than D-Jet. A D-Jet system would be an ideal candidate for a DIY'er who has good knowledge of electronics though.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

RustInPeace

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #17 on: 31 January 2012, 05:09 AM »
Photos of the 280SE 5 gear arrived today! It's some hours drive away, so I get a first impression before traveling to see it. Unrestored untouched condition is a plus. I am looking at the 450SE in more detail last weekend find filler mass around the front skirt and wheel arches and some cheap crimps on the wiring loom.

The 280 looks better at first view:
[French lights, no offside mirror][Damn! have you tried to upload from Linux!]
[Good velour and a proper stick to stir the gears with][Argh! more attachments woes..]
The color looks a bit like my W123, I'll get a photo of her later.

Re: K- and D-Jet I am tending a bit towards what koan is saying. Both systems seem to have have specific strengths, depending on the personal situation. There is a lot of experience in the oldtimer scene regarding D-Jet here, as it was used in many other cars of the time. There is even a lot of reference material on the 'Net (in German) including schematics and calibration data.  Here is an example from [djetguru][http://www.sternzeit-107.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=466]. There are probably still enought D-Jet cars being scrapped here in order to find parts, making D-Jet not a bad route. Interesting that the exhaust note is something different. Good exhaust note is definitely important - ask the neighbors about my 1977 Le Mans!

Any engine conversions here tend to center on using LPG. Last year the German vehicle laws changed making it very difficult to have an 'oldtimer' registration AND gas. Oldtimer gives you dirt cheap tax and insurance : 125Euro comprehensive and 193Euro tax. Without this the tax is 800 and insurance, well, look at the engine displacement/PS! Gas gives cheaper running, but not with full tax.

JC
« Last Edit: 31 January 2012, 05:13 AM by RustInPeace »
W123 280E 5-speed
* der Rolls-Royce ist DER Mercedes unter den Autos *

Casey

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #18 on: 31 January 2012, 07:04 AM »
[Damn! have you tried to upload from Linux!]

Yep, just upload your pictures to the gallery (you have to click the obscure "sidebar" link to actually do anything) and then use the links it gives you in your posts.  This forum itself doesn't allow direct attachment upload to posts, only links to URL's.

RustInPeace

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #19 on: 31 January 2012, 08:05 AM »
Raptelan, thanks for the sidebar tip!
That was pretty obscure OK. Now I start another jihad with GUI versus Linux Command Line  ;)

OK. Here's the object of desire:

Tacho and 5 cogs

The only relevant rust-through..

Paint is absolute tiptop, no even stone chips on front. Visible rust on outer surface in this area only:

Other photos show clean motor bay, problem areas like underside of doors, water box (firewall), wagon lifting points, wheel arches, floor pans and sills to be in order.  There is some sun damage on the rear parcel shelf, but the velour seats are perfect.

This gherkin is ready to go!

Would need the usual change of fluids, rubber hoses, rubber bushes, etc.. but the brakes are free and the engine runs smooth.
W123 280E 5-speed
* der Rolls-Royce ist DER Mercedes unter den Autos *

Casey

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #20 on: 31 January 2012, 08:14 AM »
I need those green kick panels under the front dash and on the sides of the footwells for a LHD car!  I'm getting most of the same interior for my SEL but it's from a RHD car so those pieces I still need to hunt down...  French lights are the best ones...and the bumpers look to be in great shape.  What is the color code?  Looks significantly lighter than mine...

I wish this car was near me to buy. :(
« Last Edit: 31 January 2012, 08:21 AM by Raptelan »

Casey

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #21 on: 31 January 2012, 08:22 AM »
Now I start another jihad with GUI versus Linux Command Line  ;)
Please. :)  Usability of the modern internet is getting worse and worse every day.

RustInPeace

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #22 on: 31 January 2012, 08:30 AM »
Please. :)  Usability of the modern internet is getting worse and worse every day.

Check this out! Web browsing for Vi Freaks! http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/pentadactyl
.. transforms Firefox into a keyboard oriented, modal half-vim, half-browser cyborg

Hasta la Vista, Mousey  8)
W123 280E 5-speed
* der Rolls-Royce ist DER Mercedes unter den Autos *

Type17

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #23 on: 31 January 2012, 09:40 AM »
What is the color code?  Looks significantly lighter than mine...


It’s the same as mine - 861, Silver-Green Metallic


Car looks good for the money - needs some work, but doesn’t seem to need any hard-to-find parts, and is generally complete.

RustInPeace

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #24 on: 01 February 2012, 06:10 AM »
At the risk of mission creep on the thread, here is something for Type17 and Raptelan, fans of Mercedes Silver Green:
W123 in downtown in the Barock quarter.:


The journey to work is not good for automatic trans, sure glad this is 5 speed manual. Snow tires, snow-chains, shovel and grit in the trunk and of course heavy duty corrosion protection for the farm:


This machine is too good to pass on, I already rebuilt the top end: new cam chain, port polishing, valves and seals etc. Distributor and leads, thermostat, wheel bearings, track rods, steering damper, brake discs and pads, front suspension springs, transmission hardy discs and damper.. There's a fair bit of scrapped car in there too, like bumpers, towbar, sunroof. Scabby paint is just a disguise: I can't part with it! If I end up with the W116 then the W123 goes back behind the barn.

I'm still looking for a Vee motor, but the 280SE with good bodywork, chrome and paint is an offer that's hard to top. (Maybe that bodywork could one day house an alloy block 380 motor, you know, the 1981 long stroke thing...)
« Last Edit: 01 February 2012, 07:02 AM by RustInPeace »
W123 280E 5-speed
* der Rolls-Royce ist DER Mercedes unter den Autos *

Casey

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #25 on: 01 February 2012, 06:48 AM »
At the risk of mission creep on the thread, here is something for Type17 and Raptelan, fans of Mercedes Silver Green:
W123 in downtown in the Barock quarter.:

Mine's actually Nickel Green Metallic:


...and I have a W123 in Moss Green:

(sorry no better picture at the moment - this one is the one with the 4-speed manual.  I'd really like a 5-speed tranny or two...)

Type17

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #26 on: 01 February 2012, 07:30 AM »

A little bit more mission creep…


Is it also 861, Silver Green, or is it 881 Silver Thistle (Silberdistel), which looks very similar, and was much more common on 123’s? (in the UK & Ireland, anyway).


Either way, it looks gorgeous, My dream daily driver would be a 280 W123 Station Wagon in either 876 Cypress Green, or 355 Diamond Blue



carl888

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #27 on: 11 February 2012, 11:47 PM »
Not sure I agree with you Carl on D vs K jet.

The way I see it is K is a simple mechanical system, warmup reg can be a bit of a problem but easily fixed by a competent DIYer or professionally rebuilt. Injectors are dirt cheap but last forever anyway. Fuel distributors are and expensive item but just seem to keep going. Fuel pump/ fuel filter /accumulator down the back can be a problem but again easily replaced but at some expense.

(K-jet runs higher pressures than D-jet)

Now D-Jet, an early analog electronic injection system, injectors, manifold pressure transducer and fuel pump all expensive if still available, fuel pump can be rebuilt unlike K-Jet unit. Distributor trigger points can be a problem.

If both systems are well maintained with the required money spent there's not much to pick between them. D-Jet is getting harder to source parts for (Bosch tradition appear to be making some trigger points again) though.

I like K-Jet just because of its mechanical elegance.

D-Jet has on advantage, if anyone was thinking of ditching the analog electronic box and going the MeagSquirt route it's possible to use existing injectors and temp sensors, and adding a throttle position pot is easy.

koan

Thanks Koan for the clarifications on the K/J pressures.  Where I have the biggest problem with K-Jet is I have found it almost impossible to maintain the correct AFR over the rev range.  The issue seems to me binding and or corrosion in the metering unit which is very hard to diagnose.  Perhaps I've just been unlucky with the two K-Jet cars I've had.

Regards,

Carl.


TJ 450

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #28 on: 12 February 2012, 10:25 PM »

Quote
...Thanks Koan for the clarifications on the K/J pressures.  Where I have the biggest problem with K-Jet is I have found it almost impossible to maintain the correct AFR over the rev range.  The issue seems to me binding and or corrosion in the metering unit which is very hard to diagnose.  Perhaps I've just been unlucky with the two K-Jet cars I've had.

Regards,

Carl.

Absolutely, by design the mixture will never be perfect with worn parts, with K-Jet. The plus side is that it rarely fails, so it's great from a reliability standpoint. I've also never experienced a V8 K-Jet engine that truly idles smoothly with regards to the 116. The very low km 500SEC I once had was the only exception, a truly smooth idle, but that had less than 100,000km on the clock (rusty as hell though).

I'm not sure about D-Jet as I've never experienced it.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

koan

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Re: Advice on Five Gear 280SE
« Reply #29 on: 13 February 2012, 09:41 AM »
Mine idles pretty good after the valve job, problem I have is keeping idle mixture right, always seems to want to go rich which is not hard to fix but puzzled why it does it. Other thing is idle RPM change depending on air temp, a good AAV might fix that.

koan
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