Author Topic: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!  (Read 16092 times)

W116-M117

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #60 on: 10 June 2013, 02:44 PM »
I'm really surprised of that discussion. Maybe that such a modification are not admitted in Italy (and therefore who is going to do that knows very well the potential consequence with law), maybe that it's not easy to find an engine in good condition (any Mercedes-Benz in Italy is used to run several tens of thousands km per year, so an old Mercedes-Benz at the scrapyard usually has an engine with no less than 5-600000 km), maybe this or that, it's really hard for me to verify what is the meaning of it in my "environment"... nevertheless it's a singular discussion because the matter sometimes sounds strange for me. And not for these particular reasons, but for general item.

First, I agree that a car owner can do whatever he would like to do with his car. Right. But I have the same right to disapprove it, if I have such an opinion. Right. And I'd like that this my disapproval would not be considered by the car owner as something that he must obey. It's only the freedom to say: "I do not like it". Hope that's clear.

For example, I really disapprove a rare W110 Universal (and rarer with an M180 engine) modified with a more recent turbodiesel engine. Can I say it? And can I have the freedom to say it, hoping that it won't be considered as something that I'd like to impose to the car owner? Because it's not my task to give orders to anyone: only, tell my opinion. Stop.

To whom is interested, I can explain my opinion with reasonable - and simple - supports: I start from the fact that driving is very different Country to Country. Depending from the roads, from the laws, from the traffic. Indeed, based on my work experience (I work since 1995 in the automotive) I know car is not only engine. It's only a part of it. May be the car body is able to support a doubled power, i.e. from 100 to 200 HP, but what about steering? What about suspension? What about brakes? What about the weight and gravity center? And, finally, what about the car behaviour in critical traffic condition, not only wheather, but also a child that pass through the way and oblige the driver to run an emergency handling?

Mine is not an absolute criticism to that "transformed cars", but only technical observation. Just like example (no purpose from my side to criticize none in particular, but just as examples posted here: I could describe hundreds of similar situation), a 450SEL with a 5 l. engine is not a problem, as far as its power is a bit more than a 4.5 l. specimen, weight is lower (5.0 l. has alloy block, whereas the 4.5 l is a cast iron one) so brakes have an easier work to do, and a bit more rigid front axle (because the reduced weight) could improve the car handling in any bend. On the contrary, a turbodiesel engine, heavier, more performant, in a car which brakes are front rotors only (back the drums) and suspension with the notorious "Pendelachse" on the rear... mmmmhhh, doesn't get me confident. Maybe in a Country where traffic is slow, no high speed is allowed in the highway, maybe the driver is a very careful one and his driving style is a calm and quiet one, etc. etc.... OK. Good. Well, I hope that no emergency situation will occur, as far as the modified car could present surprises... not necessary beautiful.

« Last Edit: 10 June 2013, 02:52 PM by W116-M117 »

TJ 450

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #61 on: 10 June 2013, 09:59 PM »
My response to this is;

Whatever. ::)

There's enough of these cars around, that it just doesn't matter what people do with them, although I would try and save.

Tim
« Last Edit: 10 June 2013, 10:13 PM by TJ 450 »
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
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Squiggle Dog

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #62 on: 10 June 2013, 10:55 PM »
When modifying my vehicle, I take into consideration safety and handling issues. I don't think the turbo diesel engine is a whole lot heavier than the gasoline engine, though I am sure it is a bit heavier--but it doesn't seem to sag down the front end much. I also plan to convert the rear drums to discs, possibly using a limited slip differential from a W108 or W112 with a taller gear ratio and rear discs. I would install larger rotors up front as well, with the proper master cylinder. The W110/W111 chassis sedans had rather stiff springs from the factory. I drove my W110 200D with blown out shocks for a while and hardly noticed.

If I did not purchase my Universal to modify into a daily driver which I will enjoy, it would most likely waste away in someone's "collection" in a field, or be kept away in a garage and only used and seen by others occasionally. I, on the other hand, would be using it daily and it would get to be seen and enjoyed by others on a daily basis, instead of being hoarded away unappreciated.

Sometimes it's about owning a car that should have been built, but never was because Mercedes did not invent the engine at the time, but looking back, the engine and body combination would have been amazing. For me, the fintails are my favorite Mercedes ever built. But, I have lost interest in gasoline engines and am totally into diesels now. 200D fintails are great, but turbocharged 5 cylinder diesel engines are incredible, and are my favorite engine. By putting the two together, I have a totally amazing car that is the best of both worlds. The author of this post may well feel the same way about his 5 liter V8.
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Casey

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #63 on: 11 June 2013, 08:04 AM »
Everyone can have whatever opinions they want to have, and ultimately, it's up to the owner to do (or not do) whatever they want to their purchases.  My only ask is that we try to not name-call (directly or implied) and put one another down on this forum.  There have been members who have left the forum over this, and it's really stressful when one is attacked directly.

If I see someone weld on 50's Cadillac taillight's to their W116, I may think it looks absolutely hideous and would never do such a thing myself, but what is there to be gained by telling them they're an idiot for doing it?  If it brings them happiness good for them!  Doesn't affect me either way since it's not my car and never would have been or will be.  Time destroys everything and one day no matter what else may happen, there will be -no- W116's left.

I recently saw a M100 engine from a 600 for sale, and inquired about it's history from the seller - they owned a nice 600, but were tired of trying to keep up with astronomical maintenance costs, and instead were putting the entire suspension and drivetrain and whatnot else from a brand new S-class under it's chassis, so that they could drive and enjoy the car.  And why not?  At the same time it's wonderful to see a perfectly-maintained-to-original-specification 600.  Doesn't need to be just one side in the world, and nobody's anything lesser for choosing a different path than our own.

oversize

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #64 on: 13 June 2013, 05:23 PM »
Back to the original topic....  How does the new engine compare to the old (specs etc)?  Is there a video??
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P

navigator

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #65 on: 14 July 2013, 12:14 PM »
yeah yeah!! :) :)

Lets see/hear a video asap.

What is the power diff (in kw) between a 350 and 500?
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Tony66_au

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #66 on: 20 July 2013, 09:47 PM »
Personally I found the 500SE/SEL to be a far more sporty engine and the 560 to be lazy.

The 450 M117 is a torque monster but again not what youd call sporty unlike the M116 3.5 which revs like a bitch, has a great note and is more fun IMO.

So, based on what I know the 5.0 will be a sweeter version of the 4.5, both M117 engines but the greater displacement and bore/stroke makes the 5.0 betterer.

Now about this W116 Bubble..................

Got a fair few of them now (Drove another home a few weeks ago) and im waiting for the values to increase so Git Busy collectin boy!

hcorrea1977

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #67 on: 06 December 2020, 06:15 AM »
i am doing the same conversion to my 450sel 1977. i have found a low miles engine out of 1985 500sel. i will like to get a little more detail on the tailshaft modification and the selector lever. thanks so much sorry to resurrect this old thread.
Here it is people, I have spent 2 weeks putting this together, 8) goes hard and only needed minor mods, extended tailshaft by 35mm, changed shape of sump at the rear to give enough clearance. I used the original alternator, powersteer pump and air cond pump from the 450. Changing my oil filter is going to be a pain because I will have to remove the battery and battery tray every time, but who cares !!!
4 speed auto behind it now too, the selector lever needed to be extended also, no big deal. Engine mounts off the 450 bolt right on the 500 engine so all good.
One of the easiest conversions ever.  ;D






robertd

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #68 on: 09 December 2020, 04:46 PM »
Hi hcorrea1977
I did the very same conversion a few years back. put an all alloy 5lt m117 motor and tranni from an 1981 500SEL into a 450SE sedan. It was fairly straight forward. Here a a couple of things i remember:
1. I used the gear selector lever rod from the w126 and just cut it down a tad.
2. I had to rewire the gear select plug to stop it starting in gear. ( one is flat the other round i think?)
3. I used the 450 engine exhaust pipes but used a dremmel to open the pipes up approx 1/16th to match the larger outlets.
4. I pretty sure i didn't need to extend the drive shaft, just over extended it a smidge
5. The fuel pump safety cut of switch (the blue plug) that sits just in front of the fuel distributor is missing on the 500 motor. i
     believe it was electronic on the 126. so i just ran the gauntlet on that on. ( need to find the correct loom and connect it)
6. The engine mounts just drop in to the 450's no problem.
7. Last but not least was the fact that the 500 motor sits slightly further back so that the bottom of the bell housing touches
     the tubular cross yoke. I did a bit if surgery on it to make it fit.
     I hope this has answered some of you questions and good luck with the project.
116   1978 450SEL 6.9 #  4848
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 5884
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 6225  SOLD
116   1978 450SEL  6.9 # 5128  SOLD
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 5884  SOLD
116   1974 450SEL  DJet

robertd

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #69 on: 09 December 2020, 04:53 PM »
116   1978 450SEL 6.9 #  4848
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 5884
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 6225  SOLD
116   1978 450SEL  6.9 # 5128  SOLD
116   1979 450SEL  6.9 # 5884  SOLD
116   1974 450SEL  DJet