Author Topic: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!  (Read 14133 times)

Casey

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #30 on: 29 April 2013, 01:01 PM »
So?.

You offered criticism, I offered an explanation.
« Last Edit: 29 April 2013, 01:06 PM by Casey »

alabbasi

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #31 on: 29 April 2013, 01:28 PM »
OK so the long answer:

What makes the 6.9 unique and valuable (debatable term i know) is the motor and the suspension. What can make a 6.9 more problematic then it's lower end siblings is the suspension. If you remove the 6.9 engine from a 6.9 and keep the suspension, then it's just a bastardized W116 with a pain in the arse suspension that's worthless.

So it's better to take a worthless w116 with standard suspension and bastardize it.
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

jbrasile

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #32 on: 29 April 2013, 02:41 PM »
I fully concur!!!

Tks

Joe

Squiggle Dog

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #33 on: 29 April 2013, 05:18 PM »
If you remove the 6.9 engine from a 6.9 and keep the suspension, then it's just a bastardized W116 with a pain in the arse suspension that's worthless.

So it's better to take a worthless w116 with standard suspension and bastardize it.

This is subjective. True, the modified car probably wouldn't have much market value (unless someone already wanted one and this was exactly what they are after). To the person modifying the car, the car could be priceless and more enjoyable than a regular 6.9. A purist or investor would not want it, but someone who would like a car that the factory never built could have great joy in a custom job.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

jbrasile

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #34 on: 29 April 2013, 06:52 PM »
Here is the thing...

Certain cars that had very limited production, were incredibly expensive and became "significant"  vehicles should  be treated differently than others produced in the 10's of thousands. 7380 copies do not make a 6.9 as "important"  as a 300SL Gullwing / Roadster, but how many 116036's still survive  in the world today? If we agree that anything is valid to please the whims of an owner then each car that is sacrificed means one less example of a legend roaming the streets of our planet, a sad thing in my opinion...

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Joe

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #35 on: 29 April 2013, 07:14 PM »
Then you guys are really going to hate my 1967 Mercedes W110 station wagon when I'm through with it. It's an extremely rare vehicle, but I sold the original 6 cylinder gasoline engine and installed a 5 cylinder turbocharged diesel engine. I'm also going to transplant what's left of the body onto a long-nose W111 sedan to make it into a W111 station wagon, and will add a sunroof. They never made my dream car at the factory, so I am going to build it myself and enjoy it for the rest of my life as a daily driver.

The thing is, it will look stock, not customized, even though it has been customized. It will look the way the factory would have done things. It will have more horsepower than the original engine, more torque, and much better fuel economy while being easier to work on--and will last longer between rebuilds, as well as the ability to run on biodiesel.

I do agree that hodge-podging a car together and doing a hack job of it to get a few more miles out of it until it conks out for good is a big disservice. I've seen a lot of cars where parts were made to fit to get the driver by for a few more miles, and then junked the car once something major broke.

I have seen the occasional Chevrolet 350 V-8 in 450SELs and thought, "What?..." But, then again, from a practical standpoint, once a 450 engine wears out, it may be more cost-effective to install a common engine that is more easily serviced at your local garage. I dunno...
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

oversize

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #36 on: 29 April 2013, 07:15 PM »
Very nice conversion. Two weeks for a professional or person close to being a professional, I'd say. Well done. But what is the motivation? Is it for the fun of it, or just a spare mint W116 chassis?

When my 6,9 engine is dead, I think it'll be replaced by a modern 3 litre turbo diesel - same torque, nearly the same power, and 2-3 times improved fuel economy. Or how about an electric conversion - plenty of space under the bonnet or where the fueld tank goes - ideal for those of us who do 50 mile trips tops.

That's almost as bad as putting a SB / BB / LS1 Chev into one!  Fair enough on anything other than a 350/280SEL or 6.9
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P

alabbasi

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #37 on: 29 April 2013, 07:21 PM »
This is subjective.
One can say that about anything if they remove common sense.

With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

Squiggle Dog

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #38 on: 29 April 2013, 07:25 PM »
This is subjective.
One can say that about anything if they remove common sense.

Alright, I'm through. I made my point. No sense arguing.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

jbrasile

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #39 on: 29 April 2013, 07:30 PM »
Squiggle,

You've probably heard of these guys:

http://www.mechatronik.de/welcome-to-mechatronik-the-spirit-of-classic-specialized-on-mercedes-classic-cars.html

They do the most incredible "Frankenteins"  on the planet!!! And you know what, I would not mind driving one of their conversions BUT, I spoke to them in Essen and they are extremely strict when choosing a car to  upgrade. Case and point: a 300S that has been modernized with a 3.6 M104 AMG engine and is featured regularly in shows, events and articles, the car had a bad engine  and WAS NOT a fuel injected version, if that were the case Mechatronik will refuse to modify the vehicle due to its historical importance. And that's what we are saying, 6.3's and 6.9's are becoming so few in the world that as tempted and one might be to satisfy his or hers personal wishes, we should try to preserve as many cars in their original state as possible.

Tks

Joe

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #40 on: 29 April 2013, 08:30 PM »
Mods that go against the car's originality never go down well among enthusiasts. I would say do whatever you want, but it's always going to create these sorts of arguments.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Squiggle Dog

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #41 on: 29 April 2013, 08:32 PM »
Thanks for the link, Joe. It sure looks like a lot of effort and money goes into those cars.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Squiggle Dog

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #42 on: 29 April 2013, 08:33 PM »
I also want to clarify what I meant by "this is subjective", since it was implied that I do not have common sense. Kind of rude, but maybe my statement was misunderstood? Though the vehicle may have a hurt market value, the owner may love his car and it may have more value to him than an original example. It irks me when people are opinionated and criticize others' ideas like they are the police.

Drama starts when someone has a strong opinion and feel they have to condescend on others that don't feel the same way. So, the other person defends their opinion and then the first person tries to discredit them. And on it goes... I think there would be less tension on this forum if there wasn't so much criticism, and if given, at least consider the poster's viewpoint and just let it be.

I really dislike people telling me what to do. People have tried to do this my whole life and I've found that listening to my own instincts has gotten me a lot further, and many times others have been wrong, despite their thinking they knew what was best for me. I'll drive what I want to drive. If it means cutting up a Gullwing, so be it. It's no one else's business what I do with my money.
Stop paying for animal cruelty and slaughter. Go vegan! https://challenge22.com/

1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

alabbasi

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #43 on: 29 April 2013, 09:00 PM »
I also want to clarify what I meant by "this is subjective", since it was implied that I do not have common sense. Kind of rude

Now that's subjective ;)

I really dislike people telling me what to do. People have tried to do this my whole life and I've found that listening to my own instincts has gotten me a lot further, and many times others have been wrong, despite their thinking they knew what was best for me. I'll drive what I want to drive. If it means cutting up a Gullwing, so be it. It's no one else's business what I do with my money.

I think you need to work through some issues here that have nothing to do with me (the nothing to do with me part is not subjective)

Please be aware that of the following:
1) I did not disapprove of the OP's conversion. I like it.
2) I responded to Adamb's post, not yours. I don't know why your taking it so personally when its not your car.
3) I don't think that I've made any comments good or bad on any modification that you've performed on your car. As you suggest, it's your car and you can do what you like with it.
« Last Edit: 29 April 2013, 09:23 PM by alabbasi »
With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

jbrasile

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Re: 450sel 5.0ltr 500sel engine !!!
« Reply #44 on: 29 April 2013, 09:00 PM »
Squiggle,

I hope I don't sound like I am trying to impose my will and opinion on anyone, we all have our point of you and I always try to express mine in a non offensive way.

I also like the 5 liter conversion very much. For some reason the 5.0 version of the M117 is a much smoother engine than the 4.5, it will idle at a glassy 600rpm all day in D,  really nice.

Now cutting up a Gullwing, arghhhhhhh..... can we just agree to add a/c?....the car is like an oven on a  hot day and almost impossible to drive... hehehe... very popular and welcome mod in the US.

Tks

Joe
« Last Edit: 29 April 2013, 09:06 PM by jbrasile »