Author Topic: 450sel 4spd manual worth $800?  (Read 11406 times)

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« on: 13 July 2005, 02:13 PM »
This car has average bodywork, no rust, but has some scratches and bubbles.  It has been resprayed.  Not bad condition for such an old car.  It also has the proper headlamps and bumpers, not the quad round lamps or huge bumpers.

The battery has no juice and needs to be jump-started.  It burns some oil.  The V8 is quite loud.  The throttle keeps fluctuating up and down.
The gearbox is only a 4 speed, and it's quite lose.

The interior is quite dirty with the audio system removed.

So what's the highest price I should pay this guy for the car.  I live in canada.

Mforcer

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #1 on: 13 July 2005, 02:30 PM »
What do you want the car for? Restoration, something to tinker or just nice transport? One of the other guys here should be able to help with the technical problems.

Have you looked on eBay for an idea of what these are selling for? There are always a few W116 on eBay for sale of varying standards.

One thing I can say for certain is that the 450 SEL was never available with a 4 speed manual transmission. This may have been swapped from a 350 SEL or you may in fact be looking at a 350 SEL that was rebadged as a 450.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #2 on: 13 July 2005, 03:43 PM »
thanks for your reply.

That seller is lying, I researched this website and found out that manual isn't available on the 450.
The car has no badge on the back, the seller is clearly trying to sell the 350 as a 450.  The engine is a Vee-8 so it must be the 350.  Maybe it isn't long wheelbase too.

Mforcer

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #3 on: 13 July 2005, 05:13 PM »
I would certainly be concerned when someone is unable or unwilling to properly identify the car they are selling. What else are they getting wrong?

Quote from: "hokman"
Maybe it isn't long wheelbase too.

In another topic, I wondered about any noticable difference in performance and handling between the short and long wheelbase cars. I have a short wheel base car and do not see the benefit of giving an additional 10cm leg room to the rear seat. I am never in the rear seat of my car although I can think of one reason for the extra length in the rear seat :wink: but certainly not worth paying the extra cost when the cars were new. If it was up to me, I would prefer the short wheel base just so that the extra space in the rear is not wasted by not being used. I also figure that the additional weight of the 10cm of car would reduce performance, even if just ever so slightly :twisted:
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #4 on: 13 July 2005, 11:59 PM »
On ebay, a 450sel that has rust everywhere and faded paint and damages sells for $500 USA.  The air cleaner box is all rusty.  It's much worse condition than the one I was looking at.

maybe that 350se isn't such a bad deal after all.

Mforcer

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #5 on: 14 July 2005, 12:13 AM »
I don't know how rare manuals are where you are but any Mercedes with a manual is rare here in Australia. A manual W116 is very rare and may be worth it just for that :!:

Buying this car when it needs work may also give you reason to fix it up the way you want :wink: Bad exhaust? On goes a bigger exhaust. :twisted: Bonnet (hood) in bad condition? In goes a scoop for a cold air intake :twisted: Add a modern stereo and you could end up with a car that is lots of fun to drive and own.

If I was looking for a car, the only thing I would be really concerned about would be rust and especially rust I couldn't see. Make sure to lift the carpets and the foam underlay when looking for rust. Most people have the car looked at by a mechanic but I would also have the car looked at by a body expert that knows these cars.

Personally, I would not buy a car in this condition to restore unless you could do most of the work yourself. It would be much cheaper to find a good example where someone else has spent the time and money.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #6 on: 14 July 2005, 04:42 PM »
For the W116, is the manual or auto a better choice?
Which choice would have more problems?

What's the difference in power and economy between a 350 and 450 116?

How much would the rebuild of the 350 V8 cost?  The car I saw has 300,000+ kms!  What's the maximum distance can  these engines run?  If this engine is in too bad condition to be saved, how much would a similar merc V8 cost for a swap?

If I'm in the market for a S-class merc and I only have $1000.  Is the W116 the best choice?  I see older W108 series but they're likely to be in worse condition.  W126 doesn't go for that cheap and I like W116's style better.  But how do the 3 cars compare?

Thank you 450se, for you help!

Mforcer

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #7 on: 14 July 2005, 05:27 PM »
Being in Canada, I am guessing you are able to find a diesel 116 too. I have never had the pleasure of even seeing one of these as they were only ever available in the USA but it could be another option. All 116 should be able to handle 500,000km given appropriate servicing and maintenance.

As for manual vs auto transmission, I would also be guessing that since there are more autos around that more good condition used parts would be available for the autos than the manuals.

In choosing a model, have you considered the W123? I would regard its looks as the baby S-Class. As for driving I have heard different people claim that the 126 is both better and worse than the 116. I think it would be hard to argue that it is not better in most ways but for me the 116 style can not be beat. I am not familar with the 108 enough to comment.

If you are willing to do some of the maintenenace work yourself with the help of others on this forum, a W116 should be ideal for you.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2005, 02:17 PM »
Hello Styria.  It seems that most members here are lucky enough to own a 6.9.  I understand that the 6.9 would be the ideal engine to haul around the heavy 116.

But it's not that easy to find a 6.9 to buy right?  Maybe I should wait until I see one.  However, wouldn't that enormous V8 make the car really front heavy and deteriote the handling?

The automatic is certainly a better choice over the manual.

I don't really like the 126 because my aunt has one and I'm not a fan of those plastic bumpers.  Her's was a 560SEL and now it doesn't run anymore.  But no doubt that my aunt is one uncareful owner who crashes over bumps and doesn't do regular maintainance.  I hope the w116 would fare better than a 126.

Benz was famous for excellent reliability,quality and engineering.  But the company started to cut cost with the w210 4 eyed e-class right?  I also feel that the W140 s-class has no style at all, it's just a huge saloon with no beauty.  Maybe the company's turn for the worse had started earlier.

So is the W116 considered the golden era of the company?

Mforcer

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #9 on: 17 July 2005, 05:40 PM »
Quote from: "hokman"
It seems that most members here are lucky enough to own a 6.9.  I understand that the 6.9 would be the ideal engine to haul around the heavy 116.

That may seem the case but I assure you there are far more of the smaller engines ;)

Quote
But it's not that easy to find a 6.9 to buy right?  Maybe I should wait until I see one.  However, wouldn't that enormous V8 make the car really front heavy and deteriote the handling?

It may be worth the wait for the 6.9 but many people avoid them due to the greater complexity of the hydropneumatic suspension. However, this is also the reason the 6.9 has such great handling even compared to the lighter smaller-engined W116.

Quote
The automatic is certainly a better choice over the manual.

Most MB cars were built for cruising and for this the automatic is perfect. Also, I believe the higher gears are the same in the auto and the manual transmissions. The only major difference is starting from stand-still where the manual will win but is it worth the effort? ;)

Quote
I don't really like the 126 because my aunt has one and I'm not a fan of those plastic bumpers.  Her's was a 560SEL and now it doesn't run anymore.  But no doubt that my aunt is one uncareful owner who crashes over bumps and doesn't do regular maintainance.  I hope the w116 would fare better than a 126.

I don't like the plastic bumpers either! That is one of the reasons why I think the W116 were the last of the great.
Being 10 years older, it is hard to say if the 116 would fare better than a 126. They certainly will never look as good!

Quote
Benz was famous for excellent reliability, quality and engineering.  But the company started to cut cost with the w210 4 eyed e-class right?  I also feel that the W140 s-class has no style at all, it's just a huge saloon with no beauty.  Maybe the company's turn for the worse had started earlier.

Some would say that the last true MB was the 124 series. The 140 series was also the last MB where cost was not an issue. However, at least to me, these cars lack the personality and style of the 116.

Quote
So is the W116 considered the golden era of the company?

Without a doubt, YES! :!:  :!:  :!:  BUt then again, I am biased :)
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #10 on: 18 July 2005, 03:37 AM »
After reading an article from this site's library, I now know the problem of the 350se i'm looking at.  The fluctuating throttle  is due to the ecu problem, not the injector like my friend said because they rarely fail.  Am I right?

How much would a used ECU be?

The 350se I saw must had a hard life because there's smoke at the exhaust.  The previous owner must have failed to change oil and filters regularly, preventing oil getting to the valves and pistons and causing wear.
And this car has around 200000 miles and now the ecu is failing.  The gearbox's condition is also in suspect.

I really want a 116 and this looks like a bargain, do you think I should go for it despite the wrecked engine?  Should the engine's problems should be cured or should I swap for another engine?  Many problems of the 116 are body related but this doesn't seem to be a problem of the car I'm looking at.

Can the car be driven home or should I deliver home on a lorry?  It's about 20 km's from my house.

sd300

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #11 on: 19 July 2005, 05:25 PM »
6.9  or 6.3 are nice but also comes with a high price tag of gas guzzler, expensive parts, tricky suspension, hard on rear diff too.

Many yrs ago I was looking for a 6.3 but the thick repair records made me think otherwise.

The L was discussed, I guess they're not for self drive, more for shows, the big bossa sat in the back.
Same as the Maybach 62 too.
performance wise probably rob her power and different handling than lighter cars.

Hokman
  go look at the engine marking, serial # see if any be cross ref.

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #12 on: 19 July 2005, 06:27 PM »
sd300, what do you mean by L?

And what do you mean by cross-ref?

Sorry, for not understanding you :)

sd300

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #13 on: 19 July 2005, 10:30 PM »
the L= 450SEL versus 450SE


cross reference.

hokman

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450sel 4spd manual worth $800?
« Reply #14 on: 20 July 2005, 12:16 AM »
thanks for the clarification.

The current S class has changed the name from e.g. 350se to S 350, so how do you know if it's long wheelbase or not?