Forum

Garage => Test Drive => Topic started by: hokman on 23 January 2006, 05:21 AM

Title: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: hokman on 23 January 2006, 05:21 AM
http://www.diplomat-b.de/test02.htm
http://www.diplomat-b.de/test12.htm
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: oscar on 25 January 2006, 02:34 AM
Good find Hokman,

Got no idea what conclusion the article comes to, but my one sightedness, bias and very loose translation has the 350 winning hands down. ;D

Seriously though I'd love to see the article in english, looks like an interesting comparison. 
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: hokman on 26 January 2006, 02:33 AM
Good find Hokman,

Got no idea what conclusion the article comes to, but my one sightedness, bias and very loose translation has the 350 winning hands down. ;D

Seriously though I'd love to see the article in english, looks like an interesting comparison. 

Yes the 350se didn't let us down and got top scores for 1.exterior/interior, 2. Engine, 3. comfort all the areas.

But I was surprised.  IF you look at Opel today, would you ever imagined it would make a car to compete with Mercedes S-class? Totally unbelievable.  And it could compete in some ways.
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: Denis on 26 January 2006, 02:38 AM
Hi hokman

That "Opel" is little more than an american GM car with a Chevrolet "327" engine : big old torquy iron pushrod POS.

It's a form of rebadging, not a real Eurocar

Regards


Denis

Paris, France
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: oscar on 27 January 2006, 11:46 PM
Actually I thought I was looking in a mirror. :o
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: editjunk on 30 January 2006, 09:52 PM
Damn, after looking at the photos I have no option but to search for a Diplomat - that guy looks exactly like me: All style!
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 31 January 2006, 02:29 PM
- if your toy has breasts or wheels, its going to cost you money -

I know where I'd put my money for a reliable return (and a surer ride)!   ;D

(Says the permanent divorc?.)
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 31 January 2006, 04:01 PM
 ;D ;D ;D

Perhaps that secretary has since learned what "68 + an IOU" is!

Okay - I'll go wash my mouth with soap now.
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: John Hubertz on 07 February 2006, 08:08 PM
Frankly, I'm amazed at the ranking superiority of our Marque.  The Jaguar XJ6 and BMW are well known, and to my experience top-line Opels are nothing to sneeze at.

The recent small Cadillac Catera is a European Opel design.  If you want to see value for the money, take a look at this car:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fl-1-OWNR-LTHR-TRACTION-59k-MILES-L-K_W0QQitemZ4608972239QQcategoryZ6145QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That is every bit the car an average 1999 C or E class is....  and no WAY you can ignore the price/value ratio!  Incredible!

John
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 07 February 2006, 09:03 PM
Cadillac Catera ... That is every bit the car an average 1999 C or E class is....   

John: You can't be serious! That's a Holden Commodore (at least bodily; the Commodore has 3.8 litres); the Commodore is the standard Oz "family" hack (it's, Opel-based, built in Oz). Maybe the mini-Caddy has nicer leather and a little wood trim, but that's not what makes for a sound car. There is so much more to a good car than meets the eye.

There can be no reasonable comparison at the engineering level of that and any Benz. Hit something substantial, at speed, or roll the thing, and see if the occupants can open the doors and walk away; even the A-Class does well on that score (and, for that matter, the minuscule Smart! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6605730767077503480&q=smart+crash (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6605730767077503480&q=smart+crash)).

"Value for money" rather diminishes at the hospital and funeral parlour.

And as for longevity ...

I drove, for two years, a company car: it was an Opel-built (fully imported to Oz) Holden Vectra (a.k.a. Opel Vectra).  It was noticeably better assembled that the later, locally assembled Vectras, but when it came to longevity and serviceability, it was extremely disappointing.  At 70,000 km it needed new front brake rotors; according to the dealership's service centre, that was quite normal and "expected". The rotors cost considerably more than a set for my Benzes.  My twice-as-heavy Benzes go through rotors every 200,000 km.  In a carpark, some idiot banged the Vectra's driver door - at very low speed, leaving a little panel damage but removing no paint; the door could not be opened and had to be replaced in toto; the B-post also needed straightening.  I'm glad nothing hit it whilst I was driving; the integrity of the (supposedly strengthened) cabin was highly suspect after seeing what that small ding did to it.  After 170,000 km the Vectra was totally clapped out, gutless, and rattling; its resale value was bugger-all.

No, sorry; the only thing I can see that Caddy having in common with a Benz is four wheels.
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: John Hubertz on 07 February 2006, 09:29 PM
I could be wrong about the relative merits of the Opel....  but I'm very concerned about reliability issues with all late-model Mercedes due to gadget failures that render seats, climate control or other electronically controlled systems inoperable.

I admit I simply distrust newer Mercedes... and frankly I'm not a safety person - I love driving my Uncle's 64 Buick and it was not equipped with safety belts, and neither he nor I have any interest in retrofitting them.  Call us fools, I suppose.

A sadder truth about all that is the fact a local family died in a wreck of a Duesenberg a couple of months ago.  They were thrown from the wreckage in the accident.  I agree entirely that the body construction of a Mercedes is superior and that for some people, it is an important part of their purchase decisions.
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 07 February 2006, 09:48 PM
I could be wrong about the relative merits of the Opel....  but I'm very concerned about reliability issues with all late-model Mercedes due to gadget failures that render seats, climate control or other electronically controlled systems inoperable.

John: I must agree with you there; the last decade's production of Benzes has been disappointing. I'm sure it's related to the accelerated development period. During the (now over!) reign of former top Director Jurgen Schrempp, the development of new models was reduced from over five years to just 33 months. Even D-C has publicly admitted that it has major reliability issues - particularly with fancy electronics.
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: Denis on 08 February 2006, 12:13 AM
Hello gentlemen  ;D

In recent years, D-C has made several bad moves :

1 - Intro of cheaper models (not the Smart) downgrading the marque in general.
2 - Dilapidation (fany word meaning destroying) of a century of good reputation (a major feat fostered by Jurgen Schrempp, mister margins)
3 - Kicking out the Mercedes-Benz marque from the top position in world class cars by introducing a more "upper-class" car (with a very limited market)
4 - Hot-rodding every model (? la AMG) to get part of the "tuning" market with the effect of downgrading the base configurations of most models.
5 - Follower instead of leader styling
6 - Gadgetizing the cars to the point of unreliability (cheapie electronics)

No wonder an average marque such as Audi has had it so good in recent years, especially with the help of the goofy BMW Bangle designs.

In 2006, if a new car fairy appeared to me, I might well take a walk to a Jaguar stealership....

Denis

Paris, France

Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 08 February 2006, 12:55 AM
3 - Kicking out the Mercedes-Benz marque from the top position in world class cars by introducing a more "upper-class" car (with a very limited market) 

Not to mention the Maybach's utterly vulgar interior!  Surely no-one with "old money" taste would buy one; only the taste-challenged nouveau riche would go there.

I'll happily stick with my Bracq-mobiles (and one Bruno S).
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: oscar on 08 February 2006, 04:56 AM
Well the answers obvious to me.  REMAKE :)

MB should go back to perhaps a period after the roundies and do it all again. 

We've seen Mini's & Beetles rediscovered with degrees of resemblance of the originals.  Whilst not a remake, the PT Cruiser does well with its retro styling.

Imagine a new 116 or 108 remake?  I can if I think hard enough.  And what about Gullwings.  I can't believe they haven't remade gullwings.  Can you imagine how well an originally styled 300sl would sell.  Who would get upset? No one.  Collectors would collect another,  and the many who could afford it but weren't around to buy the first version would buy this one to see what all the fuss was all about.  Prices of originals wouldn't plummet and if they did, who cares.  I know the only way is up for my benz.

It wouldn't be the first time for MB, I read they did a remake between world wars because of the popularity of an earlier model.  Can't remember details, let us know if you do.
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: John Hubertz on 08 February 2006, 05:53 AM
People,

Thanks for generating such stimulating discussion of the issues affecting "our" Marque and our future as enthusiasts.

I believe that this thread should be forwarded to the principal senior managers of product development and the new president of MB Worldwide.

The bottom line is that "we" Mercedes lovers want simple, durable, safe and technically excellent vehicles.  We believe that technical excellence is a matter of design, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Navigation Systems, Seat and Mirror memory or the ability of the car to remind us not to open the convertible top at 100KPH in the rain.

Mercedes have traditionally been a car that empowers the owner - a Land Rover of the road - a car that can be driven from here to Central America without taking a trunkful of spares and a list of servicing distributors, be rinsed off, used to take the President of that country to dinner, and then be driven home without pause.  A car that Gordon can use to haul a trailer of woolies from the Outback all the way to Sydney, and then improve the probability of his being asked for a ride home from the Country Club by a person whos BMW won't start.  (maybe even a female person!)

Read the Car&Driver article (1978?) about the drive from New York to Road Atlanta, a full-on track test, and then a return trip.  In ONE new 6.9, on ONE set of tires, with ONE set of brakes, without ONE quart of oil or ATF or "check engine" warning light.  That folks, is what Mercedes-Benz ownership is all about.

John
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: Denis on 08 February 2006, 06:17 AM
Hi OzBenzHead

Getting to the point :

Paul Bracq got to ride/drive one last year. The power is great but the body design...he feels...is  "trop banal" ... not much good to say about it.

As for the interior design....hmm...he says the same as you do  ;D

Denis

Paris, France

Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 08 February 2006, 02:44 PM
... "we" Mercedes lovers want simple, durable, safe and technically excellent vehicles.  We believe that technical excellence is a matter of design, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Navigation Systems, Seat and Mirror memory or the ability of the car to remind us not to open the convertible top at 100KPH in the rain.

Mercedes have traditionally been a car that empowers the owner ...

John: So well put. Hear! Hear! (Are you listening, Stuttgart?)
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: Mforcer on 08 February 2006, 08:15 PM
I think this is the reason why we all like our W116 so much - the last MB to be solid and simply engineered without the complications of technology, electronics and especially gadgets. I hear that new MBs have cup holders! Bah, who needs them! ;D
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: OzBenzHead on 08 February 2006, 08:33 PM
I hear that new MBs have cup holders!

Is that what they are?!  And here was I thinking thinking they be dvd-player trays.  No wonder the vids wouldn't play!  :o
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: John Hubertz on 09 February 2006, 04:35 AM
I am aghast.  No CUP holder?

Aaack!  Where on Earth will Luvvy and I place our Mint Juleps while cornering?  (sip)

Colonel John Hubertz
Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels
Date of Commission: October 19, 1989

PS:  Gordon will appreciate the fact that both the Governor and Lieutenant Governor who signed my commission have both subsequently been defrocked and served Federal Prison Time for aggregious offenses against the moral fiber of the general population of the great state of Kentucky - which frankly, in my experience, must be protected as there is probably insufficient moral fiber to spare....  It would be difficult to locate enough of it in Kentucky to make a decent car cover.  A fact I fully support. 

I cannot wait to see the words "Welcome to Indiana" in my rearview mirrors.

PPS:  The Governor was arrested once for attempting to fly his helicopter while intoxicated.  Probably was disoriented by the lack of cupholders.

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/01schlump.jpg)

PPPS:  Perhaps I should do my drinking in the back seat y'all?  A silver flask would fit neatly in the mesh seat pocket....
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: alabbasi on 10 February 2006, 08:13 PM
IColonel John Hubertz
Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels
Date of Commission: October 19, 1989

John, your a Kentucky Colonel? I dated a girl who's brother was one...
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: John Hubertz on 11 February 2006, 04:26 AM
Yep! I'm a Kentucky Colonel.

And while we're getting personal....  guess where I go to church?

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/post-13-1101389453.jpg)
Title: Re: 350se vs Diplomat V8 vs 733i vs XJ 4.2
Post by: oscar on 13 February 2006, 04:12 AM
I'm offended!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding,  that's bloody funny.  Was that from a Canadian MB site or Danish?