350SE - 1980

[fatherpierre]

My first post on here, but my 3rd 116.

I've just acquired a last of the line 1980 350SE.  I didn't keep my previous 116s for long but really enjoyed them.  But as a consiquence, I know little about them (I've had many 123s, 126s and 124s).

I'm picking the 116 up soon and am wondering if there are any major things I need to look/check for?  This engine is completely new to me so am guessing timing chain slap and the usual things will be obvious, but anything else that I need to specifically look for?

I'm not paying much for it (ebay car) but it looks nice, has had lots of bodywork done (semi-pro) but come with no history and 165k.  But it has an MOT and is taxed and running well, according to its owner.

Can't wait for it.  It will look nice next to my 124 300E 24v sportline on my driveway!

[alabbasi]

Glad to see a London car being kep away from the scrappie. I just don't see them anymore.

[fatherpierre]

So few of the 116 in the UK now.  SLs are quite common and the 123 and earlier class coupes are still favoured.

Petrol prices here make the 116 and even the 126 less desirable - although the 126s durability make it still common and very cheap.

[alabbasi]

I think if I ever move back to the UK, I would have to choose a W126 as my transport and figure out a way to convert it to LPG

[michaeld]

Fatherpierre,
Welcome to the forum!  Your extensive Benz experience will make you a real asset to the group.  If you "hang around" us very much, I'm sure you will find us a right dandy bunch of chaps!

Now, as an American, I would say that the biggest problem you'll have to deal with in a Euro w116 is that the steering wheel was put on the wrong side of the car.  That is, of course, a joke; what I'm saying is, w116s are pretty well-made cars, and don't seem to have much in the way of "issues" IMHO.

As an American - and I'll go by the endearment 'Yank' - I simply don't see 350SEs on the road.  That's because the federal smog laws forced a larger displacement engine to compensate for the h.p.-robbing smog equipment (hence the 450SE/SELs).  But my understanding is that the 3.5s are genuinely excellent engines.  I can also tell you that the trannys will go and go, even if they haven't been well-maintained.  Same with the front suspension.  If anything, I'd give that a good going over.  I'm sure you know to check all the fluids and whatnot.

You mentioned timing chains: the timing chains on the M117 are double-rowed and basically will not break; however, the guide rails can become brittle and fail, causing the chain to come off its track.  I basically intend to "wait and listen" to my chain via a stethoscope, and replace the chain AND the guide rail at 175,000 miles unless I start hearing things I don't like.  These engines - particularly the bottom ends - will just go and go if the oil is changed on schedule.

Assuming you're getting a good example of a 116, I'd be interested in hearing your evaluation vs. the 123s, 126s, and 124s you've had.

Gas - expensive as it is - is still inexpensive in the US in comparison to the UK; but I don't put a lot of mileage on my car, and it sounds like you won't either.  One thing I can tell you; driving down the road in my 450SEL is a little slice of heaven for me.  It is so smooth, so relaxing, and so quiet that I really look forward to my time behind the wheel!  Hope you will as well!
Mike

P.S. My car was an "Ebay car" as well.  I picked it up for next to nothing - planned to sell it for a tidy little profit - and then fell in love with it.

[chazchuzzlewitt]

Hello, unless I'm mistaken, this'll be my car you're picking up!

[WGB]

Watch for Rust and Timing Chains.
All other things just cost money.

Rust in a UK car is critical.

Timing chains don't break as such but the chain stretches, the plastic "sliders" particularly the surface of the Tensioner become dark brown and then brittle and then start to break up and the chain then jumps a tooth in what is a very tightly toleranced engine - valves meet piston and Kaput.

Hydraulic tensioner also loses its grunt - in particular it will lose its tension when parked and when the engine is started it will allow the chain briefly to slap around until oil pressure pumps it up - and this combined with the deteriorating plastic sliders can cause a catastrophe.

Chain can be checked by removing right side Cam cover. Colour of plastic sliders will be evident. They start a milky white and slowly get darker as they age to a dark chocolate brown.
Chain stretched is measured by lining up the timing mark on the camshaft sprocket with the mark on the tower by turning the engine clockwise (looking at the front of the engine) and then measuring the number of degrees after TDC that shows on the crankhaft pulley  (Pulley is clearly marked with both TDC and before and after TDC markings) - chain is U/S after 11 degrees of stretch is measured.

Apparently life of chain is about 100,000 miles (160,000km) but many last a lot longer than this.

Bill Babe

[oscar]

Hello, unless I'm mistaken, this'll be my car you're picking up!

Another UK 1980 350se ?!  I thought it too coincidental.

I'm picking the 116 up soon and am wondering if there are any major things I need to look/check for? 

Although same engine as mine but with different fuel injection, I don't know what to advise apart from let us know how it goes. Or let us know what problems you come across and go from there.  Check the fluids etc and take a trip up North and enjoy

[adamb]

Hello, unless I'm mistaken, this'll be my car you're picking up!

That's what I thought when I first saw the original posting. Due to rust it is worth buying the best W116 you can find. However, giving advice and following it are two different things. After a succession of W116s I am now driving a car that's somewhere in the middle of the range.

Adam
'77 6.9 in London, UK

[fatherpierre]

Hello, unless I'm mistaken, this'll be my car you're picking up!

Yep, and hello again!

I'm impressed with her, to be honest.  For a 165k motor it goes really well and the work you did on the rust is good.  You saw how unfussy I am - I'd been looking for a useable 116 at the right price for nearly 2 years!  They're so rare in the UK now.

I took the old girl to 1** mph on the way home, got stuck in London traffic and ragged her a bit without a problem or any major fuel use, over what I expected.  Not a problem.  I'd forgotten the sound the 1977 450SEL I used to own gave out!  This sounds more grunty.

I think I have the only 116 in the area I live in now.  My dog loves it and the Mrs "quite likes it, but it's very big".

The 124 300 24v sportline isn't going to get used much over the next few months I feel.

I drive very fast & legally for a living, in brand new cars, so to jump into a 116 with its whale handling is very theraputic!! 

It's much cooler than the immaculate 1980, 126 280SE that I let go recently.  No comparison.

As a footnote:  the MBtex is in remarkable condition and Zippy seems to like me, despite his silence and hands over-the-eyes activity when I make the 350 do racing lines she was never designed for

[fatherpierre]

Fatherpierre,
Welcome to the forum!  Your extensive Benz experience will make you a real asset to the group.  If you "hang around" us very much, I'm sure you will find us a right dandy bunch of chaps!

Now, as an American, I would say that the biggest problem you'll have to deal with in a Euro w116 is that the steering wheel was put on the wrong side of the car.  That is, of course, a joke; what I'm saying is, w116s are pretty well-made cars, and don't seem to have much in the way of "issues" IMHO.

As an American - and I'll go by the endearment 'Yank' - I simply don't see 350SEs on the road.  That's because the federal smog laws forced a larger displacement engine to compensate for the h.p.-robbing smog equipment (hence the 450SE/SELs).  But my understanding is that the 3.5s are genuinely excellent engines.  I can also tell you that the trannys will go and go, even if they haven't been well-maintained.  Same with the front suspension.  If anything, I'd give that a good going over.  I'm sure you know to check all the fluids and whatnot.

You mentioned timing chains: the timing chains on the M117 are double-rowed and basically will not break; however, the guide rails can become brittle and fail, causing the chain to come off its track.  I basically intend to "wait and listen" to my chain via a stethoscope, and replace the chain AND the guide rail at 175,000 miles unless I start hearing things I don't like.  These engines - particularly the bottom ends - will just go and go if the oil is changed on schedule.

Assuming you're getting a good example of a 116, I'd be interested in hearing your evaluation vs. the 123s, 126s, and 124s you've had.

Gas - expensive as it is - is still inexpensive in the US in comparison to the UK; but I don't put a lot of mileage on my car, and it sounds like you won't either.  One thing I can tell you; driving down the road in my 450SEL is a little slice of heaven for me.  It is so smooth, so relaxing, and so quiet that I really look forward to my time behind the wheel!  Hope you will as well!
Mike

P.S. My car was an "Ebay car" as well.  I picked it up for next to nothing - planned to sell it for a tidy little profit - and then fell in love with it.

It's very difficult to compare old models as they all have major faults - all discovered through millions of miles and owners.  I have owned over 70 mercs in my 15 years of driving them, but my m
ost used Merc is the 123 - I've had 45 of them, from the 200 to the 280CE/E.  I like these but have generally only had them as runabout cars to do the shopping, take the dog to the park, etc.  Not enough power, but the CE is a such a beauty.  I am always looking out for a nice coupe but have never found one that has made me want to keep it.  The quoted 185bhp from the 280 has never felt true under the right foot.  And then there's the rust........

I have also had 20 odd 126s (280SE Xlots, 380SEL, 420SE, 500SEL, 500SE, 500SEC, 560SEL, 560SEC)  I can't remeber the exact amount of each model I've owned of these.  The best of these I've had was 1984 280SE in powder blue that I bought for £270.  It was fully loaded and drove like a dream.  It was the longest ever lasting Merc I have ever had - lasting for a year.  I regret selling her to this day - but the £2000 profit I made soothes the ache!  If you could buy a kit that made the 126 look like a 116 then you'd have the perfect car, in my opinion.  All the plastic on the 126 and the harshness of it just takes it away from the beatiful lines created in the 116.

124:  best merc ever in terms of design and durability.  The last proper Merc.  Mine is like a new car and so much better built than some of the new Mercs I drive at work - and faster.

The demise of Mercedes started with the 201 (ducks, waiting for abuse).  Ugly, poorly built and just plain wrong.

[michaeld]

Fatherpierre,

Very good post, that last one.  I shall save it for my MBz "knowledge-base" collection.  I very much hope you keep posting to the forum.  I've only had one measly Mercedes and you've had 20 examples of just one chassis?  70 Mercs, you say?  Imagine how much Benz lore you have to teach someone like me! 

It's interesting that you basically dump on the 201s and cheer (with slight style qualms) the 126s, given that they were made in essentially overlapping years.  It makes me wonder: Are you suggesting that MBz created a fork in the road with the 201s and the 126s, and then chose the wrong path (i.e. the way of the 201)?  That's a thread that could be picked and sifted, what?

You may really be on to something.  It would be interesting to read up on the 201 and identify the marketing and engineering concept, and then see if that matches up with the problem-areas that MBz has developed lately...

As for me, I'm with you, hands down.  I've always admired the 126s (they simply looked more like the MBz I imagined when I thought of a Benz), and never really cared for the 201s (which stylistically could have been made by a different car company).

It's also interesting that you picked out the 124s.  It seems like 1995 was a real cut-off point for a lot of cars and car makers, during which they went from "well-made for the long haul" to "high-tech throw-away 'look-at-me'" cars.
Mike

[oscar]

fatherpierre,


Some comments intrigue me as I wonder what your profession is;

-70 mercs!,
-drive fast for a living,
-and gutsy enough to try a newly acquired 26yo car at 1**mph

Not that I'd expect you to divulge what you really do for a living, but from the above clues, my guess is your either a Valet Parking Attendant or a Crash Test Dummy? Am I close?

Fascinating posts. Especially of your mention of experiences with mercs and comments about the 116's and the 350.  I too am amazed with my MBTex quality and although some cars demand leather, I'd be happy to stick with this durable good looking vinyl. I can only agree with the comparisons between 116's and 126's.  (Although I've never driven a 126).

I'll second Michaeld's comment and hope you can share more.

Cheers,
Simon.

[chazchuzzlewitt]

glad you're enjoying it- and I'll try not to think of how little money it went for considering all the work I did!
Still, I got my 280SE for cheap so I can't complain too much...

I saw another 116 yesterday, first time ever in London- a dark blue car driving next to the Oval cricket ground. Typically I was in my 124 so no great meeting of a rare car on the roads!

[fatherpierre]

Fatherpierre,

Very good post, that last one.  I shall save it for my MBz "knowledge-base" collection.  I very much hope you keep posting to the forum.  I've only had one measly Mercedes and you've had 20 examples of just one chassis?  70 Mercs, you say?  Imagine how much Benz lore you have to teach someone like me! 

It's interesting that you basically dump on the 201s and cheer (with slight style qualms) the 126s, given that they were made in essentially overlapping years.  It makes me wonder: Are you suggesting that MBz created a fork in the road with the 201s and the 126s, and then chose the wrong path (i.e. the way of the 201)?  That's a thread that could be picked and sifted, what?

You may really be on to something.  It would be interesting to read up on the 201 and identify the marketing and engineering concept, and then see if that matches up with the problem-areas that MBz has developed lately...

As for me, I'm with you, hands down.  I've always admired the 126s (they simply looked more like the MBz I imagined when I thought of a Benz), and never really cared for the 201s (which stylistically could have been made by a different car company).

It's also interesting that you picked out the 124s.  It seems like 1995 was a real cut-off point for a lot of cars and car makers, during which they went from "well-made for the long haul" to "high-tech throw-away 'look-at-me'" cars.
Mike

I think the 350 is my 72nd MB since 1991.  It only works out at ~5 per year and I usually have 3 at a time.  I use ebay as a source of free motoring.  Buy them taxed and with MOT, drive them until the tax expires and then sell them on, sometimes at a profit.  Old Mercs hold or appreciate in value, so if you buy a good one it won't cost anything other than insurance and juice .  I have also dabbled with the odd BMW, but they aren't as bullet proof as mercs, so I tend to stick with MB. It's worked well for the last few years and I've had some real bargains . 

I never really thought about the huge disparity in quality between the magnificantly built 126 and the tin-can 201....  The 126 was regarded (rightly so) as the best car in the world on its release and only improved when face-lifted.  The 201 was, in my opinion a lame attempt at snatching some of the market the E30 BMW had successfully dominated.  I've had a couple of 201s (a 2.6 AMG and 2.5 Cosworth) and they were just not up to the standard I expected.  Thin guage metal, poorly finished and with a lightweight feel.  Oh, and fugly!  The 2.5 Cosworth was fun but not a patch on the M3 it was meant to compete with.  Only my opinion - lots of people love the 201.

I think MB changed its finance/profit policy around 1994.  Profit and volume were put before quality.

My word, I actually typed that without a spelling error