News:

The ORG - No back-slapping boys club!

Main Menu

280sel 89000 euro

Started by w116john, 03 May 2016, 03:37 AM

w116john


rumb

dual fire extinguishers!

What is the gauge in the glove box?
'68 250S
'77 6.9 Euro
'91 300SE,
'98 SL500
'14 CLS550,
'16 AMG GTS
'21 E450 Cabrio

ptashek

Quote from: w116john on 03 May 2016, 03:37 AM


this is one for Stan 

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/mercedes-w116-280-sel/461565710-216-1718

lots of options lots of money

I miss a shot of the options plate or data card, and there's at least a few weird details about it:

- dual fire extinguishers, what's up with that?

- "Kurier" channel selector in the glove box, whereas normally it sits on the centre console?

- it seems to have a highway horn (top-right corner of radiator), but doesn't have the switch for it; and that's certainly neither the standard place, nor design for a factory 116 horn

- the seller claims just over 6000km on the clock, yet look at the keys - one's pretty worn; the master is out of its sealed plastic pouch; and the third key is in some home-made contraption

- the seats most certainly look like they've seen more than just 6000km of use

- the two switches on the centre console - the right one is where the rear windscreen heater switch should be, but it doesn't have a heated rear windscreen; but it has rear reading lamps, so I'm guessing that's that switch is for these, just in the wrong spot?

- didn't the phone equipped models have two antennas, one for the radio, and another one for the phone?
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

Jed

Looks like a temp gauge in the glove box. Odd, but i like the fit of both the gauge and the radio selector.
1979 Mercedes 6.9 #5206 - restored
1979 Mercedes 6.9 #6424 - ongoing restoration
1976 Mercedes 6.9 #484 - restoration?

daantjie

Dunno man that is a lot of scratch for a 280.  If it were a 6.9, maybe.
Daniel
1977 450 SEL 6.9 - Astralsilber

UTn_boy

The rear parcel shelf has a lot of fading on it, too. 

Regarding the rear reading lamps, they each have their own switch built into them, so I doubt that one of the switches on the center console operate them. We know one of them will turn on the rear dome lamp, so maybe the other one was for the antenna before they put this funky springy antenna on? 

Also, if it was a radio delete car from new, wouldn't there have been only one antenna if it had only a phone?

Djaante, Are you saying you'd pay 89,000 Euros for a 6.9?  That's between double and triple of what they're currently worth. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

gavin116

#6
Quote from: ptashek on 03 May 2016, 07:44 AM

- the two switches on the centre console - the right one is where the rear windscreen heater switch should be, but it doesn't have a heated rear windscreen; but it has rear reading lamps, so I'm guessing that's that switch is for these, just in the wrong spot?



Hi Lukazs

You've missed an important point here.  The switches are correct, you need to remember that you could choose between two options when ordering a rear screen with heating:

Option A: option codes 247, 591 and 593.
Safety glass (e.g. Armourplate® - toughened or safety glass) where the rear window heating element is glued to the inner surface of the rear screen, is typically gold (in colour) and linear in style.  If you break one of these wires, that strip no longer works  >:( .  If you throw a stone at this window, it typically falls into thousands of little 'crystals' that supposedly cannot cause injury to persons.

Option B: option codes 248, 590 and 592.
Laminated/compound glass (e.g. Shatterproof™ - two or more panes of glass sandwiched by a 'viny'l layer) where the window heating element is incorporated between the two panes of glass along with the 'vinyl', and is typically silver (in colour: nickel plated copper apparently) and has a very fine zig-zag pattern that is almost imperceptible to the naked eye.  If the window seals are allowed to perish, water can ingress between the panes, turing the 'vinyl' layer milky, and causing the heating element to rust, which renders it non-functional  >:( .  If you throw a stone at this window, it typically cracks, but holds together.  It is therefore used mandatorily for front windscreens. 


Incidentally Ford has been using these heating elements in the front screens of their cars for more than a decade and a half, even on entry-level Fiestas... (Seen in a friend's car, as I have only ever owned German cars apart from a 2-door Honda Civic coupe for a few months.)

Hope this clears the issue of the rear heated window switch.

Keep 116ing,
;)


Edit: Laminated or compound can be used interchangeably. Added two pictures to illustrate the point (JasonP's car and my car).
1979 450SE "Mrs White"
2022 Touareg-R 3.0TSi Hybrid
[url="http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/my-first-w116-here-at-last/"]http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/my-first-w116-here-at-last/[/url]
[url="http://forum.w116.org/the-org/british-near-london-meet/msg97613/#msg97613"]http://forum.w116.org/the-org/british-near-london-meet/msg97613/#msg97613[/url]

ptashek

Quote from: UTn_boy on 05 May 2016, 03:24 AM
Djaante, Are you saying you'd pay 89,000 Euros for a 6.9?  That's between double and triple of what they're currently worth.

A concourse quality (note 1) euro 6.9 is currently valued at around 60kEUR by Classic Data.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

floyd111



UTn_boy

Quote from: ptashek on 05 May 2016, 06:15 AM
Quote from: UTn_boy on 05 May 2016, 03:24 AM
Djaante, Are you saying you'd pay 89,000 Euros for a 6.9?  That's between double and triple of what they're currently worth.

A concourse quality (note 1) euro 6.9 is currently valued at around 60kEUR by Classic Data.

Well, any data like this quoted by Classic is not to be trusted.  They purposely drum up the prices to try to get people to take notice.  Classic hates the W116 anyway.  They're only answering to demands and meeting demands on parts because there is money to be made in doing so.  If we all went by what Classic values each model, then we could all likely take an early retirement.  The point is, people aren't paying those kinds of prices.  The people that buy these are the ones that have control over the values, not Classic.  They're only trying to influence the market with their name and presence.  It just doesn't work fellas, especially for a W116, and as of late the W100 cars.  Don't get me wrong, we all know that a 6.9 or a 600 couldn't be made to look new for anywhere near 60,000 Euros, but that doesn't mean people are willing to overpay.  Be careful out there, and don't trust everything you read, especially from Classic AND Hagarty.  They also inflate values to pad their own pockets. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

ptashek

Well sorry, but that's just not true. Classic Data clearly states in their magazines how they collect data and compile the pricing - auctions, market transactions, past trends etc.

Their valuations have a fixed price, independent from what car it is. They don't sell classics either, so there's no vested interest in drumming prices up on a whim. More often than not the prices they list are way below what the market asks, unless it's some super rare thing that pops up on an auction once in a blue moon. Even then, it's stated in a footnote somewhere.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

UTn_boy

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.  I was only calling out the "pink elephant" in the room.  Nobody wants to believe the ugly truth lately. It's all so damned disconcerting.   

I've been battling this mess for 9 years now, and I'm not going to let some publication ruin all of my research and hard work just because they feel that they have the authority. Furthermore, why in the world would there be a need to put a fixed price on classic automobile evaluations?  That's completely counterproductive, and in all senses of the word.  And of course they have some sort of vested interest.  Why would they even bother otherwise?  Market transactions in the private sector, which also falls into the category of past trends, is the only lucrative, accurate, and reliable source for gathering information regarding what certain things are worth.  Whether it be a 600 or a collection of bobby pins someone is lusting after. 

Auctions are a big huge no no in gathering data for the value of something like a car.  At an auction, the starting bid is always set too high to start with.  Add in all of the male testosterone/competitive nature, the heat of the game, and a bunch of grown men with millions of dollars just burning a hole in their pockets that have child like behaviors to outbid the other fella just because they don't like them, get them all boozed up on alcohol, and you have a hell of an auction.  The already too high starting bid goes up and up and up, and for not reason other than to out-do the other fella.  It's a pissing contest,  (pardon the expression) nothing more. 

There is not one single reason in this world that a company/entity/marketing agency needs to set a standard for the value of something like a used automobile.  The people that buy these used cars are the ones that have all of the control.  What they're paying is the trend, not what some periodical like Classic that factors in something as unreliable auction prices.  At this point in time, people just aren't paying anywhere near 89,000 Euros for a 6.9.  Though, that's not to say that someone wouldn't. 
1966 250se coupe`,black/dark green leather
1970 600 midnight blue/parchment leather
1971 300sel 6.3,papyrus white/dark red leather
1975 450se, pine green metallic/green leather
1973 300sel 4.5,silver blue metallic/blue leather
1979 450sel 516 red/bamboo

ptashek

Quote from: UTn_boy on 04 June 2016, 01:11 AM
I've been battling this mess for 9 years now, and I'm not going to let some publication ruin all of my research and hard work just because they feel that they have the authority.
I don't see firms like Classic Data claim any authority on pricing. They're just a business that offers a service, and publishes their findings in a printed magazine.
It's not like they're some government organisation, having legal authority over anything and forcing everyone to rely on it. I don't see their data being pushed as an ultimate source of truth on the continent either, it's pretty much a thing of personal choice. How are Hagerty / Nada doing in the US?

QuoteFurthermore, why in the world would there be a need to put a fixed price on classic automobile evaluations?  That's completely counterproductive, and in all senses of the word.
How exactly? I think I'm missing your point.
The things they check are a constant list, why wouldn't be the price for such a service be constant either? And to counter your argument about vested interest - having non-fixed pricing, or a commission based pricing, which depends on the value of the appraised vehicle gives the appraiser an incentive to drive the price up *and* opens the process up to corruption.

QuoteAnd of course they have some sort of vested interest.  Why would they even bother otherwise?
Because it's their business, and that's how they make a living?

QuoteMarket transactions in the private sector, which also falls into the category of past trends, is the only lucrative, accurate, and reliable source for gathering information regarding what certain things are worth.

It's one of their sources of data, as far as I understand. It's what many European insurers also use for assessing maximum policy payout value, so called "OMSP" - open-market sales price.
In many jurisdictions in Europe private car sales fall under "capital gains" taxation, and must be declared. I wouldn't be surprised if aggregated data was available to commercial entities.

QuoteAuctions are a big huge no no in gathering data for the value of something like a car.  At an auction, the starting bid is always set too high to start with.  Add in all of the male testosterone/competitive nature, the heat of the game, and a bunch of grown men with millions of dollars just burning a hole in their pockets that have child like behaviors to outbid the other fella just because they don't like them, get them all boozed up on alcohol, and you have a hell of an auction.  The already too high starting bid goes up and up and up, and for not reason other than to out-do the other fella.  It's a pissing contest,  (pardon the expression) nothing more. 

Couldn't agree more. However, keep in mind such testosterone-fests are usually focused on the top-tier of cars. The most rare/desired/flashy/hip. And there's also smaller auctions, local ones etc. where there isn't big money involved, and it's closer to what people are able and willing to pay.

QuoteThere is not one single reason in this world that a company/entity/marketing agency needs to set a standard for the value of something like a used automobile.
Yes, there is: insurance. How otherwise do you envisage so called "agreed value" policies? Someone needs to make the valuation *and* they must be trustworthy enough both to the client, and the insurer. I don't expect every insurer to have their own specialised valuers.

It's actually quite interesting, as the term that Classic Data uses in their valuations is "Wiederbeschaffungswert" or "replacement value" - so basically not how much they think a vehicle is worth, but more how much they think it would cost to replace it with something as identical as possible, given market conditions at the time of appraisal. So, yeah, it may be heavily biased upwards if the market is in a bubble (which you'd probably agree is the case now?). It's a double (triple ;)) edged sword. As an owner, you'd like a valuation that gives you relative piece of mind in case of damage, loss (that's my aim). As a seller, you care only for as high a value as possible. As a buyer, quite the contrary. You can't win in all respects.

QuoteThe people that buy these used cars are the ones that have all of the control.
Nobody doubts that. Yet, standard rules of open market apply - it's a constant struggle between supply and demand, and other factors like perceived return on investment. If people are willing to pay 89000 for a 280SEL, and there's enough of them,  or if MB suddenly starts trumpeting the W116 up, prices will follow.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

nathan

Perhaps its an aberration in time, but 6.9 prices in Australia are temporarily high.  Currently very few available but I believe a silver with blue sold for mid 40k's recently and another owner told me he has an offer on his higher than that.  historically good 6.9s got 25-30k and that was about it.  perhaps they will return to this price.  In saying this, most of the bangers that used to drag prices down to 5k or so are drying up or being wrecked.  now having terminated 3-4 and owning another 3-4, there can't be too many crappy ones out there?
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
2011 212 e63
2011 463 g55
2007 211 e500 wagen
1995 124 e320 cabriolet
1983 460 300gd
1981 123 280te