280" Concourse; Diary of a layman

[floyd111]

one more for luck..

[floyd111]

Another bit of luck.. After all the talk about sump plates and bash guards, I just found one at 45 euros.
I may even get 2 of them, but that is to be seen. One down, one to go!

[ptashek]

It WILL be the rarest of W116's, the 280SEL with manual transmission, holding as many or more options than the most exclusive 6.9 ever sold.
p

But then it may not at all qualify as "concourse", but rather as "exotic".
To quote from wikipedia:

Concours d'Elégance competitions also are run for classic cars. Here, the emphasis is as much on originality as the condition, although this also is very important. The general aim is to present a vehicle that is in the same, or better, condition than it was in when it left the production line. Unless original, modifications are not allowed, and components must be suitable for the year and model of the automobile. Even components or features fitted to automobiles of the same type, but in a different production year or trim level, are not allowed. Original-equipment-accessories from the manufacturers own range are allowed and some competitions allow after-market equipment and accessories, provided they are of the correct period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concours_d%27Elegance

[floyd111]

Sure, but all my cars are 280's, after 1976, so they share a range of identical options, and MB would install almost anything into any car, for the right price, even custom-made 50-off's Weber hydraulic jacks for armored cars and other freaky clients. All my options have 1976-1970 a116xxx part numbers, unlike 90% of all other cars that have bilstein jacks, from the W110 era, W123 or W124 series. The toolkits are also not excluded.
The only sin I plan to commit is to install green heat absorbing MB-logo window panes. Those, I deduct, were never optional on the 280's

I hope I have not missed a beat there.

[ptashek]

But that's the thing - if it were custom installed at factory on that specific car, and then restored it's OK for concourse, but not if it's a retrofit.

But exotic sales well too, I guess.

[gavin116]

Hi Stan


The news is bad to some degree.  To be truly concours, the car needs to be presented exactly how it left the factory.  For example a 280S with no air con or radio or near-side mirror, presented at a concours, will have points deducted if a radio, air con and near-side mirror were retro installed, and are period and manufacturer correct.  It doesn't matter that it could have been specified with that particular car, the car needs to be original to its build-sheet.


The Jaguar club are a little more open about what is judged.  Some makers are a little more cagey about what exactly is being judged, but it is my understanding that you can ask the judges some questions once the event is complete.  Essentially a car starts off with 100 points, the car is judged in several areas, and points are deducted in each area where there is an imperfection. Perhaps just google concours judging (+- Jaguar) or something of this kind and you can read a little how things operate at a concours event, or better still got to such an event, and chat a bit with the entrants and judges.


I'm sure the cars will be super, and there shall surely be some very keen individuals chomping at the bit to buy such a highly equipped specimen.

[floyd111]

Funny photo texts!

Yes, you are both completely right in that aspect. Concourse rules. I am aware of those. My datacard isn't worth much, but I never had a chance in that aspect anyways, with any pre-1980 Benz bought in this country.
When I say "Concourse", I say this knowing none of my cars will ever be shipped anywhere, by me, to any contests. That's a rich man's game, and they'll never invite me to come play.
I use the word and imagine a standard of perfection, but to me, that includes retrofit the rarest of car-correct options, make them functional and look like new.
Think of it as the tribute W116 museum on wheels
I like to think I have a fair(or small) chance to get away with this. I also think trying to sell it in Taiwan is probably my best bet.
Still, it's nice to have dreams and hopes, haha!

[ptashek]

Still, it's nice to have dreams and hopes, haha!

Both your project and mine would get nowhere without an unhealthy dose of both

[floyd111]

I am also firm in my perception that W116 is on the rise. It's not just because I see online pricing for fine non-6.9 specimens reaching the 20.000 euro mark more and more, but there's also a massive dip in NOS parts offers, over the last 3 months. And yes, I bought a ton of stuff internationally, but I find it hard to believe I am the only one buying NOS stuff. I can't be held responsible for this sudden vacuum.

As far as my car(s) go, they will not be 6.9, even though I just bought one in the USA. That one will be for my mate. The survival rate for the "rare" 6.9's is astonishing. They're everywhere, in all stages of decay and glamour. (for a rare model)
Now try a similar search for a mint 280SEL, or a 350SEL, and you'll come up basically empty-handed. Those cars are proper rare, and the survival rate of those is 10 times less per capita as the 6.9.
Now, in the end, it is originality that does it for some, but more than anything, rarity rules. I would not be surprised to see the day that a 280SEL fetches more money than a 6.9.
Didn't the -absolutely mint- MB600, with 5000km, belonging to Maria Callas, not just sell for 60.000 euros?
How is that even possible, were it not for the fact that almost every 600 ever built is still available on Hemmings?

[ptashek]

Let's put it this way - there are W124 E500/500E online for €90k, but you'd be raving mad to pay anything close to that even for the super-rare E60 AMG version in "Condition 1". People will chance their luck, and that's what you see online. The W116 is no different, especially the 6.9, albeit - unlike most W124s - it's been appreciating slowly over the last years.

But, that's the European market. I can send you a scan of the W116 specific page from Classic Data valuations. It's an eye opener, and it's not looking great for the future with current price trends and the global economy being in the semi-defunct state as it has been for close to a decade now.

In the US, judging solely by prices online (i.e. people not really chancing it), the W116 seems to be considered worthless by the vast majority. I've no idea about Middle East or Asia.

[Peter]

What I am noticing is the gap is widening and strengthening  - by this I mean that the lesser condition W116 is still cheap by comparison to other vehicles while pristine examples will command an ever increasing price. A W116 that's in original and impressive condition is starting to fetch 15K to 20K.

[floyd111]

..and in this jungle of remaining thousands of W116's, what would the wealthy, front runner collectors be looking for, if ever anyone of  them would be thinking of investing heavily in a W116? -in the upcoming 5-10 years?
What type of car car can break that glass ceiling? A true original? Unrestored, mint ,with no miles? Or is it the lush 6.9? But, there are so may 6.9's out there.. are they rare enough to be fetching 100.000?, mint?
What is the W116 gonna look like that's gonna be the first to fetch 100.000?

[floyd111]

catalog A black
Catalog C black
catalog K black
catalog J black

Those are one and the same thing. For "period correctness" you just need the one matching your car.
The letter code (and the codes at the top) identify the edition - "A" being the oldest, "J" being the latest (and last, from ~1980, for W116 if memory serves)

Also, isn't that "Wartungsheft" (service book) for the W108 chassis?

If your car is a euro, you should also have a booklet with a complete list of dealerships/service stations on the continent. It came in the factory set.

The black catalogs are not the same at all, btw.. One of them is 3 times thicker than the other 3, tons more data.

[floyd111]

And.. the Webesto kit should be on its way here.

In the meantime, some dressing for the rear hat shelf

[floyd111]

And this one's bought and paid for, but now.. how to ship this thing from Germany to Taiwan?