Author Topic: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman  (Read 94745 times)

floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #660 on: 17 November 2019, 05:58 PM »
Your fortitude never ceases to amaze me.  I took a drive down the roads on googlmaps, nice countryside. I found in amusing that the nearest town has 7-Eleven stores.

Yeah, 7-11 is everywhere, highest density in the world. It is considered a line between city life and country life, depending how far you're from a 7-11. We're 5 minutes away or so, which is considered unacceptable to 99% of the people. I used to live 8 minutes away, so we're moving up in society!

floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #661 on: 17 November 2019, 05:59 PM »
Madness  :D

As for tuning a K-Jet, I was under the impression all you need is a set of pressure gauges to setup all the working pressures, and an exhaust gas analyser (or just a CO tester) to setup mixture.

There's no computers or lambda sensors to fiddle with.

Good to know!

floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #662 on: 08 January 2020, 11:46 PM »
Days are ticking away, finally getting closer to the finish line.
Naturally, the old workshop has still done nothing to finish the clear coat and the undercoating, but at home, things are moving forward nicely.
The ground floor is nearly finished, ready to take a car lift or 2, and my British mechanic is back home, preparing boxes of tools and whatnot awaiting the arrival of the shipping container, carrying all of that to Taiwan. (including a Lotus 7-type chassis and 3.0 V8 engine)
Our soon-to-be classic car restoration company will be rather glorious, counting by the already stunning looks of the interior.
Paints and decorations have been carefully chosen and applied, and it already feels like a fancy German MB garage from 1975. Stylish wooden/chrome tall standing lamps every 6 meters, all around the hall. Antique drawer cabinets all over, with more than 160 drawers in total. It's now time to start scouting for a 70's customer seating area, all in line with the design of the workshop. Been cataloging my vintage MB gift collection, that will be displayed spread over 8 long cabinets along the walls. Pushing 200+ items now, after I bought somebody's similar collection from Germany, adding over 50 items in one go. (His grandpa was a test-driver at MB HQ!)
Half open-plan kitchen in the back, ready to be serving coffee and tea to visitors.
Bit of patience still.. I will post before/after pics very soon, the moment all the construction-clutter has been disposed of, and we have a clean working floor to show for. Tony, the mech, should be back here within a month, and around that time I will ship all my cars and parts to my domicile, and write that slow AF workshop off good'n proper. Exiting times, and not too soon neither, coz I've been running out of breath for a long time now, ready to throw in the towel!

floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #663 on: 11 January 2020, 03:22 PM »
Clear-coat question..
Is the workmanship involved in clearcoating as essential/imperative as the sand and spray job?. What about the material quality?
if it's easy, I could chance it and see if I can find a local company to do that, avoiding the wait for the old workshop.. But if it's very sensitive, I'd be reluctant to find someone else.
Your opinions are welcome here..

rumb

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #664 on: 11 January 2020, 05:53 PM »
There are different grades of clear coat. you want the higher grades. You also want at least 3 coats because your block and polish efforts will remove a bit. I found a nice water fed sander that will be perfect for blocking clear with 1500,2000,3000 grit.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PYNX1Z9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 Before spraying clear coat lightly sand the base layer with @1500 grit to knock nibs off of base coat. This will give a smoother clear coat buildup.  3m Perfect it polishing compound is the cat's meow for polishing.

Dont wax the new paint for at least 60 days to allow it to fully cure properly.
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s class

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #665 on: 12 January 2020, 03:42 AM »
Better quality clearcoats ave better UV protecting qualities, they also lay down better, actually requiring less skill than cheaper paints.  THe better ones will also have better resistance to yellowing, and better abrasion resistance. 

But... generally one would choose one manufacturers system for both base and clear coats to ensure chemical compatibility.  The usual process is to lay down the base coat, and once its flashed off (15-20mins) immediately proceed with the clear coat.  If the base coat is completely dry before putting on clear, you will run the risk of clear-coat-lift, were the two dont bond properly and the clearcoat peels off.  Most manufacturers will specify a re-coat window, which is the maximum time that may elapse before the clear must be applied.  Usually the recommended window is 4 hours, with 24 being a maximum.  I think some brands may even allow 7 days. 

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s class

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #666 on: 12 January 2020, 03:44 AM »
If you are out of your re-coat window already, then you must flat the surface before painting.  Be aware tat you cannot flat a metallic base-coat without damaging the structure, so you will need to flat, re-shoot the base, and then the clear.  If its a solid colour base, you might get away with flatting the base wit 2000 and then applying clear, but with critical lighting you will probably still see the flatting marks.


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s class

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #667 on: 12 January 2020, 03:46 AM »
The standard practice with clearcoat is to apply two full wet coats with only a flashoff time between.  But as Rumb commented, this leaves you wth very little margin for error when wetsanding and polishing, so 3 coats is safer.

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s class

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #668 on: 12 January 2020, 06:44 AM »
OK, because you asked about clearcoat, I assumed you were using a base-clear two stage system. Is this the case, or have you used a 2k single stage colour system.

The colour coats of a two stage system are not catalyzed, while the colour coat if a single stage system are catalyzed, and do not require a separate clear coat as a second step.
« Last Edit: 13 January 2020, 05:18 AM by s class »

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floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #669 on: 13 January 2020, 03:23 AM »
 :o.. I need to read all of that a few times...

floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #670 on: 13 January 2020, 06:35 PM »
Dare I conclude that this clearcoating is a process in stages, that each time can be improved upon? Unlike a paintjob, that has a more detrimental, final character if not done properly>?
Thus, a job I could trust a local spray company to do properly? -(and maybe improove upon after inspection?)

s class

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #671 on: 13 January 2020, 09:52 PM »
No.  You basically have three classes of paint systems -

a) single stage - where the colour is applied and has its own gloss.  This product is catalysed if it is a 2K, or not if it is a cellulose or acrylic.  This class is usually limited to non-metallic colours

b) two stage solid colour - first stage are the colour coats which are not catalysed (and dry matt finish) , second stage is the clearcoat which is catalysed if it is a 2K system

c) two stage metallic - first stage are the colour coats which are not catalysed (and dry matt finish), second stage is the clearcoat which is catalysed if it is a 2K system

The steps of painting are :
1) bodywork
2) primers and prepping (a whole other discussion topic)
3) final flatting
4a) (if single stage) - apply 2-3 colour coats, with no flatting in between, only flashoff of 15 mins - max 4 hours
4b) (if two stage) - apply 2-3 colour coats, with no flatting in between, only flashoff of 15 mins, then after a 15-20 mins flashoff (max 4 hours), apply 2-3 clear coats with no flatting in between, only flashoff of 15 mins - max 4 hours
5) allow paint to dry (not cure hard) over night
6) if desired - colour sand (1500-2000-3000) and polish
7) allow paint to cure (28 days)
8) apply wax

'76 6.9 Euro, '78 6.9 AMG, '80 280SE, '74 350SE, '82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro , '81 500SL

s class

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #672 on: 13 January 2020, 09:54 PM »
If you have interrupted 4a) or 4b) such that you are out of the recoat window, then you must flat again before continuing.  But looking back at your photos, the car appears to be shiny - meaning this was probably a single stage finish.  So why do you want to apply clear coat?  You can in theory, but its not the way the paint systems were designed?

'76 6.9 Euro, '78 6.9 AMG, '80 280SE, '74 350SE, '82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro , '81 500SL

floyd111

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #673 on: 20 January 2020, 11:24 PM »
I think I need to write the LAYMAN part in capitals again, haha! makes me sorry i even asked, coz I understand less than i did before.
Guess I need to stay away from this part and wait another year for the slowest garage in Asia to finish that clearcoat.
All  know it's a cellulose, and that the clearcoat has not been done.

TJ 450

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Re: 280" Concourse; Diary of a layman
« Reply #674 on: 21 January 2020, 12:17 AM »
Cellulose is a bit old school, it would've been 2K on the 116 originally surely?

Tim
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