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Garage => Test Drive => Topic started by: BC on 17 April 2007, 12:48 AM

Title: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: BC on 17 April 2007, 12:48 AM
Has anyone ever timed their 116 from 0 to 100 kph (or equivalent)? :o
I'm curious to see how well my pulls 28 years down the track but I have never actually timed it.
Regards,
BC
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew280SEL on 17 April 2007, 01:03 AM
I havent yet, but in my dads 450 i stepped on the  gas and it felt quicker than 9 secs to 100 kph.
I suppose it couldnt have been, they couldnt have been wrong after all, but it did feel quicker, sort of counting in my head.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: oscar on 17 April 2007, 01:09 AM
I've tried it a couple of times, but I keep getting sidetracked and the next thing I'm doing a 130kph and listening to the awsome sound coming from the engine.  Next time we get a few models together and a wide enough track, would be great to do a side by side comparison. 

I promise I wont have wheel hub mounted spikes Grease style
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: WGB on 17 April 2007, 01:14 AM
The problem with the 350 and the 450 is the 3 speed auto which kills the initial bite off the line.

I have never driven a 6.9 but the extra torque should light things up a lot more.

Most newer cars have more gears eg 7G-tronic and the initial 0 to 30 KPH has real bite to it.

The 126's nearly always started in 2nd gear (I think the 110 does the same) unless the accelerator pedal was floored quickly or L was selected. When it left the line in 1st it was far more businesslike but would spin wheels in the wet.

Bill
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Des on 17 April 2007, 01:20 AM
Andrew, was it very hard to hookup a NoS system?

I've thought about that on the 6.9, say 50HP or a 100HP kit

6.9's will do 0-100 in mid 7's, decent shot of NoS should bring that down in the 5's I'd guess.

Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew280SEL on 17 April 2007, 01:23 AM
Sorry Des, you just made me realize i used a term wrong.

I meant to step on the gas hard. Pulled it outta my head.

I was just being naive... :-[


But your right, it would be fun.  :)



P.S I'm so ashamed right now....
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Des on 17 April 2007, 01:35 AM
thats alright mate, NoS is still a good idea, there was a 280CE in the last issue of Mercedes Enthusiast with a NoS setup.

cheapest way to get so more fun

Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: BC on 17 April 2007, 01:35 AM
My 450 will howl to the redline when held in 1st - but I've never timed it. Always too busy looking at the stunned faces of the cabin bois who have provoked such behaviour.
Honestly constable, I was doing research for the 116 forum... :o
BC
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew280SEL on 17 April 2007, 01:41 AM
thats alright mate, NoS is still a good idea, there was a 280CE in the last issue of Mercedes Enthusiast with a NoS setup.

cheapest way to get so more fun



ahh yes, a 280CE. I nearly bought one not too long ago, but we've got enough cars out here as there is, and no way would i chuck out the SEL!

My 450 will howl to the redline when held in 1st - but I've never timed it. Always too busy looking at the stunned faces of the cabin bois who have provoked such behaviour.
Honestly constable, I was doing research for the 116 forum... :o
BC

Yes, and for any 280 drivers here, if you've only ever driven it in "Drive", then put her in 'L' and really give it to her! You'd be pleasently surprised!
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 17 April 2007, 03:01 AM
My 450 will howl to the redline when held in 1st - but I've never timed it. Always too busy looking at the stunned faces of the cabin bois who have provoked such behaviour.
Honestly constable, I was doing research for the 116 forum... :o
BC

BC, you know enough lawyers to get you out of trouble.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew116 on 17 April 2007, 03:11 AM
Yes, and for any 280 drivers here, if you've only ever driven it in "Drive", then put her in 'L' and really give it to her! You'd be pleasently surprised!

Had a lot of fun learning what this beauty of auto trans can do...
Played a lot with going in S or L at differnet speeds (not more than recommended for either of them ::))

When I bought my 280SE it reached 100 in about 14-15 sec (new it would have been 11)  ;D

But after finding my Merc Dok... he tuned it up... and latest test showed 0-100 km:
- on petrol: 9.8 seconds (eating 30 litres at 100km on that throtlle :o)
- on LPG: 14 seconds

That's a serious emprovement. Now it does it in 12 (but tuned for more economical driving 8))
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: oscar on 17 April 2007, 03:16 AM
Interesting Andrew!!  I thought I was at about 10secs, but I don't know.

Here's my method for a fast takeoff in the 3spd 350.  Nothing new apart from the gear selection perhaps.

1-Start in S not L.  It'll be in first anyway, but will stay in first for longer before going into 2nd.  Trust me, it does.
2-Very firm pressure on the brake with left foot.  Slowly accelerate until it feels like your going to break something.
3-Plant the accelerator and let the brakes go.

Do I need a disclaimer?  Maybe I need to post a video  ;D

With the car running, points 1-3 should occur in a second or less if you're concerned about stressing the drivetrain.  I reckon the torque of a 6.9 would snap a flex disc or something in the diff.

Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: BC on 17 April 2007, 03:41 AM
Oscar - video please. ;D The forum has voted to make it a library item.
If necessary, Mr De Klerk will fly to the Local Court in his Executive Lear Jet to defend you.
PS: I see Honda is about to release a Lear Jet competitor.
Regards,
BC
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: oscar on 17 April 2007, 07:42 AM
Video later today if I get the time ;D ;D ;D I'll make the time.

How about a 0-100-0 time. MPH or KPH, see here for an example  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyr5dgTJ6Jo&mode=related&search=)  I think a 350 might have a chance here against a non abs 6.9

Just been perusing some other videos on youtube and realised we need more w116 home vids.  Here's a new one by a fellow 350se owner. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr0laFXpG0o)   Nice try and before I bag the different coloured door, i need to give him full points for making an effort.  Takes a lot to make that amount of footage.  My criticism, more engine sounds and action.  Less metallica.  I've been wanting to take mine out to the mid-western highway for ages for a mad max type run vid.  My wife wont be the stunt driver or the cameraman. sorry, cameraperson.

Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: oscar on 17 April 2007, 11:26 PM
My thoughts Michel on the 6.9 were exactly that.  Given the chance, an eager 6.9er would smoke it up on the starting line whilst the 350 putted away.  If I did to a 6.9 what I did to my 350 today I'd lose control within a few metres. 

Anyway, what time for the 350 do you reckon?  I was hoping for 9secs.  I had 9 attempts, and although I thought I got 9.88 at one stage, the rest were just that tad over 10 seconds I'm not counting it.  Besides,  using a stop watch and replaying poor quality vids are hardly they way to accurately time the runs, but I'm a bit disappointed it didn't reach 100 quicker. :'(

Oh well, enjoy the sound at least. ;D ;D .

I've picked 2 vids, both have me standing on the brakes and accelerator before pulling away.
Youtube links
First video is taking off in "S"  1st-2nd occurs at 90km/hr with foot flat to the floor. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ikaLwar7F4)
Second video is taking off in "D"  1st-2nd occurs at 80km/hr with foot flat to the floor.
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X4SMSKOoew)

The difference in time is negligible.

FWIW, fuel 98RON, timing about 0o or TDC.  It sounds better! 26oC outside FA wind.  Will be interesting to advance the igniton during the middle of winter and try again.

EDIT: added gallery links

[url=http://gallery.w116.org/v/fun/oscars/MOL009.wmv.html] (http://gallery.w116.org/v/fun/oscars/MOL008.wmv.html)
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew280SEL on 18 April 2007, 12:21 AM
Yes, and for any 280 drivers here, if you've only ever driven it in "Drive", then put her in 'L' and really give it to her! You'd be pleasently surprised!

Had a lot of fun learning what this beauty of auto trans can do...
Played a lot with going in S or L at differnet speeds (not more than recommended for either of them ::))

When I bought my 280SE it reached 100 in about 14-15 sec (new it would have been 11)  ;D

But after finding my Merc Dok... he tuned it up... and latest test showed 0-100 km:
- on petrol: 9.8 seconds (eating 30 litres at 100km on that throtlle :o)
- on LPG: 14 seconds

That's a serious emprovement. Now it does it in 12 (but tuned for more economical driving 8))

Whoa  ;D

Thats nearly equal to a 350 to 450. :) nearly...
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Bandolero on 18 April 2007, 12:54 AM
I have some road tests of the 280SE and they say for the 1973 model the 0-100kph is 9.7 seconds and the standing 1/4 mile is 17.3.
The polluted 280SE in 1977 did 0-100 kph in 12.3 secs.
The 1975 280S with carbie did it in 11.6.
I assume the 1973 280 had electronic injection and of course the 1977 one was mechanical, that's one reason the 1973 model was quicker. (Along with the lack of pollution gear.)

Also to Michel, I was told not to just "plant" the foot on takeoff as it puts lots of load on the drivetrain. (I do and it is "spectacular.)
If you load the drivetrain by applying the footbrake, accelerate slightly against the brakes, then at the same time as "dumping the brakes you "plant" the foot, this puts less strain on the drivetrain.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Bandolero on 18 April 2007, 01:11 AM
HaHa... yes it's much more impressive to "light up the tyres" at the traffic lights.
I did it often to wear out the old tyres. (They were crap.) Now that I have fitted new tyres, I haven't done it any more. The new tyres have too much grip and I don't want to blow up my diff. (And other associated bits.)
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew280SEL on 18 April 2007, 01:22 AM
In my opinion, "S" stands for Sport in the 280  ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Bandolero on 18 April 2007, 02:38 AM
I'll remind you of that when I'm sitting on the side of the road with a "blown" diff, stripped flex plates, broken axles and worn down tyres!!
Let alone the slipping transmission!! .....  :o  ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 18 April 2007, 08:20 AM
In my opinion, "S" stands for Sport in the 280  ;D

I thought the "S" was for "Second". I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew116 on 18 April 2007, 08:23 AM
Mercedes states that S is for "Slope"  ::) . Well it sure acts like that on steep roads  ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Andrew280SEL on 18 April 2007, 10:57 PM


I thought the "S" was for "Second". I could be wrong.

yes, as the other Andrew said here, "S" stands for Slope.

I just said it stands for Sport because of the way it transforms the 280:
High revving (later gear changes), twin cams roaring and much more rapid acceleration  ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: gregdeklerk on 19 April 2007, 05:02 AM
Hi guys, never mind what Michel says about smoking and spinning tyres-using MY technique, I recorded a 0-100 km/h time of 6.2 seconds. Plus, I have just carried out a fuel consumption test-137 kilometres of reasonably gentle Freeway cruising and 72 kilometres of suburban driving-used exactly 31 litres of 98 rating BP ultimate. My contribution, Styria

Styria, that is pretty good. I think your gleaming beauty must be well tuned and in excellent condition.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Bandolero on 19 April 2007, 05:24 AM
Styria, that is pretty good. I think your gleaming beauty must be well tuned and in excellent condition.

I reckon his "Gleaming Beauty" is really a 280SEL with 450SEL and 6.9 badges on the boot lid.
He has been conning us all this time!!!   ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Grant V on 30 April 2007, 12:29 AM
I timed my 6.9 on Saturday - 11.3 seconds. Thought it was a lot quicker and I'm quite disappointed. I know that the altitude may be factor (Pretoria 1333m above sea level) but surely something is very wrong?
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: OzBenzHead on 30 April 2007, 12:34 AM
I timed my 6.9 on Saturday - 11.3 seconds. Thought it was a lot quicker and I'm quite disappointed. I know that the altitude may be factor (Pretoria 1333m above sea level) but surely something is very wrong?

Altitude aside, I reckon something is wrong there, Grant.

My (Euro spec) Dec '79 280SE pulls 100 km/h in 11 seconds (and so does my W108 280SE). (I live about 13 metres above sea level.)
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: AMG69 on 30 April 2007, 02:24 AM
That incredible economy Styria - I did manage 450kms off 75 litres last week - 16.6l/100km's; but your 14.8 is spectacular.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Des on 30 April 2007, 02:29 AM
I timed my 6.9 on Saturday - 11.3 seconds. Thought it was a lot quicker and I'm quite disappointed. I know that the altitude may be factor (Pretoria 1333m above sea level) but surely something is very wrong?

This time of year is South Africa hot as hell?

I only ask as I know friends who drag race in the Northern Territory of Australia say due to the hellish conditions you can add 2 seconds to your 1/4 time compared to somewhere normal in Australia, i.e. Melbourne.

I'm not a mechanical genius but I would be looking at your spark plugs, timing, engine compression, timing chain etc.. if you are still in doubt.
I know I get a serious dose of power and performance with my new timing chain

where your tyres squealing much?

I know with my 17"s now I have so much more grip, I can just boot the car and it just goes, no more squealing.

I might do a 0-100 and report back


Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: BC on 30 April 2007, 02:45 AM
Quote
In the rain, i can do about 0 - 180km/h in about 3 seconds - well that's what the speedo says, the car isn't actually moving though 
And 180 to 0?  ;D
BC
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Des on 30 April 2007, 02:50 AM
PB; I'm sure you are aware that even a flat 8 second time for a car with so many miles is pretty good.

have you done any work to your engine?

6.9's in euro trim were good for mid 7's when new, so I wouldn't be too disappointed.

As I'm sure you are aware there are so many things that can affect a 1/4 mile or 0-100 time

ambient temperature
tyre pressure
windows all up
you could lower the car as much as practical to gain that 1 hundredth of a second advantage
weight in the car, better to do a run on a nearly empty tank of gas, than a full one

condition of engine
even how well the body on the car is polished, yes I know sounds absurd, but F1's are highly polished before a race to ensure they slip through the air as quick as possible, this point isn't actually new, in WWII, fighter planes were highly polished to ensure they could slip through the air just that little bit quicker.


I know its just a bit of fun testing but I thought I would mention a few points for anyone interested in shaving their times.


Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Grant V on 30 April 2007, 03:45 AM
I chatted to my father about this problem and a few points were raised.

1) The altitude is a factor, and its a fact that road tests up in the Pretoria/ Johannesburg area prove to be slower than if it has been done on the coast.

2) The car hasn't had a good service for a while

3) I should imagine that the timing chain has never been replaced. From what I've read here and on other sites, I think this is probably the biggest problem and that a new chain will definitely change the performance. I still have to do a proper valve timing check.

4) Although the car hardly uses oil, the engine can't be as good as it used to be, now with 230 000km on the clock.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Des on 30 April 2007, 03:49 AM
Grant I have been advised by M100 experts that the timing chain should be replaced every 50,000k's or every 5 years.

Sounds like your car needs a major service + timing chain, I also had my front engine seals done at the same time.

If you have any suspension issues with you car I would source the parts and do that at the same time as well..


Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Mercules on 30 April 2007, 04:56 AM
I am looking forward to contributing 0-100kph & 400m times, fuel consumption figures, in-car footage and burnout videos to this thread as soon as my 280\falcon frankenstein is finished  ;D

I just noticed the Ford has 3.08 diff ratio, where the 280SE is 3.69... Anyone who has driven an EF Falcon will vouch for its (single) wheelspinning ability... this is gonna get messy I can tell  ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: oscar on 30 April 2007, 05:12 AM
Mercules, I didn't think I'd ever get excited over a Fordedes Benz conversion.  Is it finished, is it finished :D :D, 

Looking forward to some drifting movies and a high speed 200+km/hr run over Moonee Moonee bridge ;D
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Mercules on 30 April 2007, 05:24 AM
Looking forward to some drifting movies and a high speed 200+km/hr run over Moonee Moonee bridge ;D

Drifting... not so sure - I have never actually driven my 280 before so I am really curious to find out how it handles... or loses traction for that matter  ;)  this car is definately the biggest automobile I have owned so maybe I will need all 3 lanes of the F3 to drift it? HA!

I can't decide whether its gonna be a "Fordedes Benz" or a "Bord"... maybe thats another thread entirely!

Cam
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Bandolero on 30 April 2007, 05:43 AM
I think you will be better off with the 450 diff of 3.06:1 ratio.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Mercules on 30 April 2007, 05:52 AM
I think you will be better off with the 450 diff of 3.06:1 ratio.

I could - that would make speedo swap a little easier and give me roughly the same RPM/KPH ratio... but I think I will opt for the faster acceleration of the higher 280 diff - its kinda like getting 30 horsepower for free!
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: s class on 30 April 2007, 12:48 PM
Grant,

I am hardly a 6.9 expert - I have only driven the rusty one in Alberton for about 40km, and yours for I suppose it was 20 or 25km.  From this limited experience, I can say that yours definately felt 'softer' than the other car, and in fact the figures you report seem consistent with my seat-of-the-pants inexpert 25km assessment.  My feeling is also that there is nothing serious wrong with your car.  I would check valve timing, ignition timing and fuel injector performance.  I did not detect any pingingin at all, either when I drove the car or when you drove it more aggressively.  So I suspect that you may be running a little rich due to worn injectors, and possibly that there are ignition timing issues.  I had a similar 'feel' from my 450SL, and I established that the ignition timing wasn't advancing as RPM increased.  It turned out to be an assortment of leaking vacuum hoses.  So I would certainly check your ignition timing both at idle and up to 3500rpm or so.  If ot doesn't look right, start chasing vacuum problems. Since I cured mine, the exhaust note is a lot crisper and the car has a lot more get-up-and-go.

Let us know how you get on.  If all else fails, I can show you a 280SE that can do close to that time  ;)
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Bandolero on 30 April 2007, 04:42 PM
Don't be surprised if the WUR (Warm Up Regulator) needs replacing, or repairing.
If it doesn't work properly, you will lack power.
Title: Re: 0 to 100kph?
Post by: Mercules on 01 May 2007, 03:24 AM
All sorted Pat - the full Ford wiring harness has been removed, trimmed and re-bound. All the uneeded components like lights, airbags, windscreen wipers have been removed and only the absolute necessary plugs & control units remain - the engine starts & runs, the transmission changes gears perfectly, all the gauges including tach & speedo still work as normal.

Mercules, I didn't think I'd ever get excited over a Fordedes Benz conversion.  Is it finished, is it finished :D :D, 

Looking forward to some drifting movies and a high speed 200+km/hr run over Moonee Moonee bridge ;D
It also requires input from the PRND321 switch so as to know weather to adjust idle speed for neutral or load.And this switch is just under the gear knob on the falcon not on the transmission.

The EL/EF has it all mounted on the transmission - the shifter is just a stick!

Smart lock control unit will remain intact - just tucked under the dash with the key & barrel attached... might even mount the barrel somewhere for a more intellergent anti-theft device  :o

The Merc speedo cable is now in the bin and I will be pulling apart the Merc dash this week to transplant the Ford speedo & tacho drive motors into the face panels. I will be using vairable resistors to modify the input signal to each gauge so I can get the right RPMs & KPHs on the instrument cluster.

As for the 180kph cutout... would you be surprised if I told you there are speed limit disablers freely available for all Ford models?
Will be ordering one as soon as this bitch is roadworthy!

Just to let you all know - this project has given me countless sleepless nights - working out the way around all the little parts of this conversion! My goal is to be test driving this car in a fortnight!

Photos of all parts in this post will be shown on the engine conversion thread!

Cam