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Garage => Mechanicals => Topic started by: Mattr on 22 July 2019, 06:16 PM

Title: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Mattr on 22 July 2019, 06:16 PM
Hey Folks,

My 6.9 is in need of a WUR rebuild, and since I might be acquiring a second 6.9 (which is also in need of a WUR rebuild), I'm thinking of doing so myself, rather than buying a reman one ($650 is the best price I can find or an unwired kit, which is $550), since that's a ~$90 USD kit from Aussie (link below). This brings me to a question: has anyone gone down this road before? I found a guide for it on a Ferrari website that looks pretty thorough (it's missing a few details, but it's thorough enough I think I can square the rest away), but I thought I'd ask, since maybe there's something really easy to foul up that this guide doesn't mention.

https://k-jet.biz/product/0-438-140-112-warm-up-regulator-double-vacuum-diaphragm-repair-kit/

http://www.ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Lance on 22 July 2019, 07:35 PM
Send it to Kjet biz, they did mine for my W123 280E and it was spot on.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: daantjie on 22 July 2019, 08:07 PM
Larry Fletcher is the go to for this:

http://www.cisflowtech.com/

Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Mattr on 22 July 2019, 08:44 PM
Send it to Kjet biz, they did mine for my W123 280E and it was spot on.
I'm in the USA. Shipping one there and back would be brutal. Especially since there's a chance I'll need to do it twice.

Quote from: daantjie
Larry Fletcher is the go to for this:

http://www.cisflowtech.com/

I saw that site. I didn't really see prices, which made me suspect the answer was "astronomical," but I'll give them a call.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: raueda1 on 22 July 2019, 10:08 PM
Hey Folks,

My 6.9 is in need of a WUR rebuild, and since I might be acquiring a second 6.9 (which is also in need of a WUR rebuild), I'm thinking of doing so myself, rather than buying a reman one ($650 is the best price I can find or an unwired kit, which is $550), since that's a ~$90 USD kit from Aussie (link below). This brings me to a question: has anyone gone down this road before? I found a guide for it on a Ferrari website that looks pretty thorough (it's missing a few details, but it's thorough enough I think I can square the rest away), but I thought I'd ask, since maybe there's something really easy to foul up that this guide doesn't mention.

https://k-jet.biz/product/0-438-140-112-warm-up-regulator-double-vacuum-diaphragm-repair-kit/

http://www.ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php
CISFlowtch rebuilt my WUR last year.  It was about $250, quite reasonable.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: s class on 22 July 2019, 10:18 PM
Hey Folks,

My 6.9 is in need of a WUR rebuild, and since I might be acquiring a second 6.9 (which is also in need of a WUR rebuild), I'm thinking of doing so myself, rather than buying a reman one ($650 is the best price I can find or an unwired kit, which is $550), since that's a ~$90 USD kit from Aussie (link below). This brings me to a question: has anyone gone down this road before? I found a guide for it on a Ferrari website that looks pretty thorough (it's missing a few details, but it's thorough enough I think I can square the rest away), but I thought I'd ask, since maybe there's something really easy to foul up that this guide doesn't mention.

https://k-jet.biz/product/0-438-140-112-warm-up-regulator-double-vacuum-diaphragm-repair-kit/

http://www.ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php

That first link is for a double diaphragm kit used on 380, 500 and late 280

For 4.5 and 6.9 you need the single diaphragm kit.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: raueda1 on 23 July 2019, 10:40 AM
Hey Folks,

My 6.9 is in need of a WUR rebuild, and since I might be acquiring a second 6.9 (which is also in need of a WUR rebuild), I'm thinking of doing so myself, rather than buying a reman one ($650 is the best price I can find or an unwired kit, which is $550), since that's a ~$90 USD kit from Aussie (link below). This brings me to a question: has anyone gone down this road before? I found a guide for it on a Ferrari website that looks pretty thorough (it's missing a few details, but it's thorough enough I think I can square the rest away), but I thought I'd ask, since maybe there's something really easy to foul up that this guide doesn't mention.

https://k-jet.biz/product/0-438-140-112-warm-up-regulator-double-vacuum-diaphragm-repair-kit/

http://www.ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php

That first link is for a double diaphragm kit used on 380, 500 and late 280

For 4.5 and 6.9 you need the single diaphragm kit.
hmmmm.  Careful here.  I have an early euro 6.9 and it has double diaphragm (steel for fuel pressure and rubber for vac enrichment).  It's also mounted sideways unlike most I've seen.  Point is, there many variants.  Make sure the kit is for your specific P/N.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: s class on 23 July 2019, 10:52 AM
Dave, that's what we mean by single diaphragm... One steel and one rubber.  The double diaphragm units have one steel and TWO rubber diaphragms.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: s class on 23 July 2019, 10:53 AM
I'll be rebuilding a single diapglhrgm 450 unit tomorrow if the customer accepts the quote.  If it happens, I'll take photos.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Mattr on 23 July 2019, 01:40 PM
Hey Folks,

My 6.9 is in need of a WUR rebuild, and since I might be acquiring a second 6.9 (which is also in need of a WUR rebuild), I'm thinking of doing so myself, rather than buying a reman one ($650 is the best price I can find or an unwired kit, which is $550), since that's a ~$90 USD kit from Aussie (link below). This brings me to a question: has anyone gone down this road before? I found a guide for it on a Ferrari website that looks pretty thorough (it's missing a few details, but it's thorough enough I think I can square the rest away), but I thought I'd ask, since maybe there's something really easy to foul up that this guide doesn't mention.

https://k-jet.biz/product/0-438-140-112-warm-up-regulator-double-vacuum-diaphragm-repair-kit/

http://www.ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php

That first link is for a double diaphragm kit used on 380, 500 and late 280

For 4.5 and 6.9 you need the single diaphragm kit.

That matches my part number. I also spoke with the guy that runs Salvox (http://salvox.com/products.php?66&cPath=16&sid=f888ba91854818ea0439794196dfc03a) and he said that they don't sell a kit for the double diaphragm because the parts in the 'double sandwich' (as he called it) very rarely goes bad, and that the parts in that kit should be all that needs replacing. I might pick up the kit from Salvox, and see how it goes. Spending $50 and doing it myself sounds vastly more appealing than spending $250 + shipping, but I may re-read the instructions before I commit to that approach.

My Bosch part number, fyi, is 0 438 140 060 (0438140060 , for the sake of people googling/searching this in the future).
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: TJ 450 on 23 July 2019, 10:00 PM
Interesting,

I recently rebuilt mine (060?) and it has the double diaphragm type unless this is a Euro/ US/Aus difference?

I stuffed up the FD though as it now leaks between halves!

Tim
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: s class on 23 July 2019, 10:38 PM
Saying the the double rubber diaphragm rarely goes bad is a surprising statement.  It is in fact usually the small round rubber diaphragm in these that fails.  The symptom them is low <1.5BAR control pressure even when warm.  Most aftermarket suppliers of diaphragm kits don't offer the double diaphragm units because they are technically difficult to manufacture.

The double rubber diaphragm wurs are far more prone to problems than the simpler single rubber diaphragm units in 4.5, 6.9 etc
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: revilla on 23 July 2019, 11:14 PM
Hey Folks,

My 6.9 is in need of a WUR rebuild, and since I might be acquiring a second 6.9 (which is also in need of a WUR rebuild), I'm thinking of doing so myself, rather than buying a reman one ($650 is the best price I can find or an unwired kit, which is $550), since that's a ~$90 USD kit from Aussie (link below). This brings me to a question: has anyone gone down this road before? I found a guide for it on a Ferrari website that looks pretty thorough (it's missing a few details, but it's thorough enough I think I can square the rest away), but I thought I'd ask, since maybe there's something really easy to foul up that this guide doesn't mention.

https://k-jet.biz/product/0-438-140-112-warm-up-regulator-double-vacuum-diaphragm-repair-kit/

http://www.ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php

That first link is for a double diaphragm kit used on 380, 500 and late 280

For 4.5 and 6.9 you need the single diaphragm kit.

That matches my part number. I also spoke with the guy that runs Salvox (http://salvox.com/products.php?66&cPath=16&sid=f888ba91854818ea0439794196dfc03a) and he said that they don't sell a kit for the double diaphragm because the parts in the 'double sandwich' (as he called it) very rarely goes bad, and that the parts in that kit should be all that needs replacing. I might pick up the kit from Salvox, and see how it goes. Spending $50 and doing it myself sounds vastly more appealing than spending $250 + shipping, but I may re-read the instructions before I commit to that approach.

My Bosch part number, fyi, is 0 438 140 060 (0438140060 , for the sake of people googling/searching this in the future).

Hello there Matt,

Go for it!!!  I did both mine a few years ago using that exact ferrari guide.  They still work like a charm.
Yes of course, you have the option to have the WUR rebuilt by someone else and pay.  But that option is missing 4 points immo.  Firstly, the learning experience.  Doing it yourself will truly help understand how it works and especially how it shouldn't work :).  Second, the self-satisfaction of accomplishing the job with your own hands, with your knowledge.  It's so rewarding when the engine fires up in no time cold or hot weather after the fuel pressures are to spec (assuming accumulator, thermo time sw, pump, lines, mixtures control, injectors, CSV, P regulator, etc are in good shape) and that you have done that yourself.  Then the savings of course, it's much less expensive than paying the labor somewhere else. And finally, but very important, there's a fine-tuning (very fine...) that must be done with the WUR installed in your own car.  The rebuilder might have the WUR redone to Spec, fine, but you have a fuel system with miles on it, with its own tolerances, wear so with its own 'personality' so to speak that the 'new' WUR must 'fit' into the system.  That fine tuning implies tapping over the insert until you reach the sweet spot according to the System Pressure you have (it's adjustable with shims).  I did it with the engine running and pressure gage connected. Bottom line, a rebuilt WUR might or might not give you the desired results even if the rebuilder does it to Spec, there are tolerances.  So doing it yourself has that additional advantage.  It can be a nightmare to pay $200+ to find yourself redoing it anyway to match your system.

In case of questions let us know.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: TJ 450 on 24 July 2019, 02:01 AM
The kit in the link IS the correct one for the 060 WUR btw, I just confirmed it is the exact one I used.

Both diaphragms were all crunchy and well past their use-by-date.

Tim
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: s class on 24 July 2019, 06:10 AM
TJ, it is possible that the aus 4.5 and 6.9 used the 2 rubber + 1 stainless diaphragm system.  THat was an advancement introduced by Bosch to improve emissions, mainly by controlling fuelling on the overrun.  It was also adopted for euro models from the W126 series, which is why I mentioned it being applicable to 380 and 500.  Euro 4.5 and 6.9 used the 1 rubber + 1 stainless diaphragm system up to the end of production as far as I know. 
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: daantjie on 24 July 2019, 01:24 PM
I found this schematic ages ago, and I am only really certain of the one marked as 0438140010, but this may help identify the type you have, and the correct vacuum connection for each:
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Mattr on 24 July 2019, 03:01 PM
I found this schematic ages ago, and I am only really certain of the one marked as 0438140010, but this may help identify the type you have, and the correct vacuum connection for each:
I was using the part number off the top of the WUR itself. Bosch issued about 20 different part numbers, despite there being only 4 different varieties? I think it has to do with engine displacement, or specific vehicle application, or somesuch. I haven't rooted that out yet, which makes me a bit hesitant to try swapping in a WUR with a different part number.

Oh, and I own the book that's taken from, if you ever need more information on our fuel system. :)
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Diesel 617 on 29 July 2019, 05:04 PM
For WUR, Fuel Distributor and injectors testing, I can only recommend  CIS flowtech. They do excellent work, within 1 week turn around time or sooner ( I was waiting for the diaphragms to come in). I think they charged about 340$ for the wur and 25 for shipping and handling and about 560 for the fuel distributor. These parts are rebuilt as though they were new from the factory and worth the expense, all the gaskets are replaced and everything is polish and cleaned looking like new. A+ service.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: jjccp on 31 July 2019, 06:43 AM
Just used CIS flowtech about a month ago for fuel distributor and WUR on my 6.9. Quick turnaround. My mechanic said they did good work. He also replaced the injectors and my engine runs great.
Title: Re: WUR Rebuild
Post by: Mattr on 01 August 2019, 09:39 AM
Saying the the double rubber diaphragm rarely goes bad is a surprising statement.  It is in fact usually the small round rubber diaphragm in these that fails.  The symptom them is low <1.5BAR control pressure even when warm.  Most aftermarket suppliers of diaphragm kits don't offer the double diaphragm units because they are technically difficult to manufacture.

The double rubber diaphragm wurs are far more prone to problems than the simpler single rubber diaphragm units in 4.5, 6.9 etc

What I meant by this (which, my bad for not being more precise, too many diaphragms, not enough explanation) is that the guy from Salvox said that the lower rubber/steel diaphragms are very rarely problematic, it's almost always the upper round diaphragm which goes bad. That's why they don't bother with a kit that replaces the lower one. I did find such a kit for $125, and will contemplate pursuing it if I'm still having issues after replacing the upper.

That's all on hold, at the moment, though, since I've a C220 to get back to being road worthy, and the starter on my 6.9 caught recently, so I need to get it on the lift and replace that, then worry about the WUR.