window motors trouble

[olliparr]

Got the door trim off. Next problem.
Is the metal part accessible too? I can see two cogs in the motor assembly through a hole - the left cog (I'm assuming) is doing the work because it revolves - but its teeth are only catching the right hand cog -  whose teeth are quite worn -  at times and the two are not perfectly aligned. The window sticks on the way up and needs a friendly hand quite often.

[alabbasi]

A new window regulator runs for about $150.00. You may get lucky and find a decent one in the junk yard, but why bother when you can have a new.

[olliparr]

Excuse my ignorance - is the regulator the motor or the whole assembly? I think I can get one from a jumk yard, but how do I get it in and out?

[Tomi]

I did this so long time ago, that I dont remember clearly. But it was tricky, I think the window motor had to come off first and then the regulator.

[alabbasi]

I took off a bunch of these on W108's in an effort to find a good one. None were good. My technique was to lower the window during the process.

The regulator is separate but attached to the motor. You will need to remove the motor from the old one and install it into your new regulator. I don't remember it as hard to remove.

Here is a picture of a new regulator

[s class]

A common problem is that the alloy plate which is the backbone of the hole think distorts allowing the gears to only just mesh, or misalign completely.  I am told that the plate is a sort of a pewter alloy so the changes of repairing it are slim.  On both my front regulators the pivot you see at the left end of the plate in alabassi's photo (where the arm mounts) tore off.  I was able to nonetheless repair them by pressing out all the bushings and stripping down the assembly completely until I could take the plate alone to a specialist engineer who "stitched" the plates back together.  Ive had no trouble in the 5 years and 150 000km since.

There is hope. 

But agreed, if you want a hassle-free repair, then a new regulator is the answer.

Ryan

[OzBenzHead]

The reason that pot-metal plate distorts is - I've been informed - because too many people keep their finger on the button long after the window has reached the end of its travel.  A 12-volt DC motor can deliver quite a bit of torque (twisting power), and this energy has to go somewhere; it goes to the plate, twisting it so that the two gears no longer align properly (if at all).

I stuffed around with a number of used ones but got no joy from them, so splurged on a new one (about $AU160 from MercBits in Melbourne - 'cos I was there at the time).

Shall soon be doing the same to front passenger door, as it's started to slip its cogs about an inch from fully closed, and requires two-handed assistance (difficult when driving!).

[olliparr]

A perfect description of the problem. Do you get it out just by unscrewing and dropping it through the hole?

[OzBenzHead]

A perfect description of the problem. Do you get it out just by unscrewing and dropping it through the hole?

From my recall of the exercise (about three years ago):

drop window glass a few centimetres;
undo all fasteners;
wiggle the works around;
remove hands and bandage skinned knuckles;
utter 'magical' four-letter incantations;
wiggle the works some more;
more bandaging and swearing ...

and it eventually came out.

Putting it back in was more difficult.  After getting stuck on that part of the job, I drove over to my mechanic and let him have the rest of the fun.  He had it right in about 10 minutes.

Next time (front passenger window - coming up soon) my mechanic can have the whole job!

[cipha]

The new price here in Australia is around $450 from most suppliers, so if MercBits has it for $150, then buy all you can.

I once was offered a replacement - non-MB - component that included the motor and winding mechanism  replacing the factory item).  This was of a completely different design, employing a system more like an electric radio antannae to drive the window up and down.

I myself had to replace the driver's window reglulator recently and bought a second hand item for $190.00 in Sydney, but it took a few attempts to get one that worked properly.

As the mounting plate 'bows' the gears fail to mesh on a plane, thus when any pressure is exerted, the gears can skip across each other or even start to 'cut' into the other.

I have considered attempting to fashion a replacement plate from aluminium plate, but then non of you would want to spend over $200 on one...would you?

[alabbasi]

At $450.00 AU for a new one, you want to get in touch with this guy.


http://www.mr-auto-parts.com/item.wws?mfr=MTC/RONAK&sku=MBZ059572&price=113.92&orpartno=1550798&cookieID=1VL0PHOKG1VL0PI5W4&drillid=8&image=http%3A%2F%2Fcatimages2%2Esophio%2Ecom%2Fwebapp%2Fwcs%2Fstores%2Fservlet%2Fimc%2Fimages%2Ftn%2F1167201246A%2Ejpg

At this price, you should be able to justify the shipping. The left side is even cheaper.

[cipha]

Even given the exchange rate of US$ to south pacific pesos [AUD$] your source has a good price for these items.

Used ones here in Australia are fetching the same money or near to your new item at US $ 113.00 = AUD $ 150.00.

For other interested parties, generally one would not find a motor supplied with the regulator.

[OzBenzHead]

It is not often that Ozbenzhead is wrong but, I think, in this instance he is. All motors have an overriding or cut-out mechanism that prevents over-exuberant use of the electric button from damaging the regulators. The problem with the front units is two fold-more frequent use, plus the design of the regulators themselves is tortuous-no wonder they are under so much stress. Rear ones, from a design point of view, are much more user friendly and hardly ever give any trouble. Regards, Styria

Styria:  I'm happy to concede that I may be wrong; however, that's the story I was told by three M-B parts-and-service businesses: MBV (a.k.a MercParts) at Southport, MercBits in Melbourne (where I bought one replacement), and M-B of Brisbane.  They, too, may have been wrong, and were just wanting to sell me a new part.

If there is a cut-out, though, why do those pieces warp so badly - and so commonly? Surely to design something so basic and essential to be liable to warp and become dysfunctional is contrary to what was M-B's philosophy and practice (in the old days, at least).

And why, if I keep my finger on the button, does the motor still make straining 'wanting-to-turn' sounds once the glass has finished travelling?

You've piqued my curiosity and I must investigate further (but I usually enjoy a challenge).

Cheers.

[s class]

Whether I'm wrong or right, my experiences are like OBH - I can hear the motor continuing to strain once the end-stop is reached.  I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that the limit switch feature was only from the W126 onwards.  Perhaps I have limit switches which are worn/dirty/non-functional?  styria you have worked on probably 100 times as many 116's as I have, so I'm willing to be corrected here.

[OzBenzHead]

First result of further research:  From 'Benzine', a poster on the Ozvets forum:

... the motors on these old benzs are very powerful and DO NOT have cut outs to stop the power. They have a physical cut off which is an L shaped piece of steel which is bolted on. One on the bottom and one on the top in the older benz's. The problem arrises when these become loose or is adjusted incorrectly. If you don't take your finger off the button you can actually see the door trim force outwards. I imagine if you held it there too long the motor would burn out (or the fuse). To get the mechanism out.
1. remove door trim
2. undo all 10mm nuts which hold the regulator/motor on
3. remove 10mm nuts which hold the glass onto the bottom of the regulator
4. Pull up the glass and have someone hold it
5. Disconnect the electrical wires
6. Pull the regulator and the motor out as a complete unit.
7. The motor is held on by 3 10mm bolts. make sure your fingers are out of the way when you remove the motor as I have the scars to to show that I didn't move fast enough!