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Went in for a suspension and brake check. Left crying...

Started by Rimas, 01 May 2013, 05:49 AM

Rimas

Interesting that people find the labour costs fair, I thought it was expensive  :P

Probably explains the high cost of the parts. Thanks for all the discussion so far, the overwhelming feeling I get is that it's just a matter of some clever DIY and I should be back on the road in no time.

I kind of look forward to KNOWING that my suspension and associated systems are performing at their best again. The car should ride like a dream after that! I do also agree that they report cautiously, technically any visual/functional defect is a dilapidated component, at what stage is arguable. From what I saw, most of the rubbers are completely 'kaput'.

Now with a weekend coming up, where do I start...

Cheers all, getting into my 1990 Toyota Camry was kind of depressing! Very keen to get the DIY going :)

mrkozzy

You're not alone friend!
heres a copy of my list from about 3 years ago.
At the time, I asked my  mechanic to do an oil change and (if he wouldn't mind), give the car a once over to determine exactly what needed doing. (in his opinion)
He's not a merc man but knows enough to give me a decent appraisal.
After giving me the list he suggested I ditch the car!  He's obviously not an enthusiast!

Anyway suffice to say, I'm still working on the list. I'm of the opinion most 116's would have a list of "to do's" that would be similar.
Some more drastic than others, just depends how hard you want to look.
I'd say my car (like yours) is still running mostly the original parts, hence the long list of "things to be fixed"
Most of what I had/have wrong would stop me passing a roadworthy test. 
I'm probably only half way thru the list, and while I'd love to have it perfect, its a case of one thing at a time, as finances permit. 
It's not my daily driver so perhaps that talks the urgency out of the equation,.
Tip: These are the sort of documents you have to hide from the wife!!


MrKozzy

Rimas

Yikes MrKozzy, that's a big list!

I definitely agree that often the mechanics are not always enthusiasts and will tell you it's not worth it. To be honest I think we all need a project, that's probably why we report back to this forum daily and why we love our cars as much as we do. I'm only just starting my w116 ownership but I'm already enjoying it so much.

I've had checklists on cars before and admittedly ran out of funds/enthusiasm several times, however since im using mine as a daily driver I can appreciate improvements every time I drive it.

All the best with ticking off your list. I hope you get in and drive it often enough not to forget the jobs you have pending!

ptashek

That's a big list, but nothing surprising in those cars. Also, as others have said, take the results with a pinch of salt. The garage will make it sound like you're driving a deathtrap to get the work. I've been through this a few months ago, and have since done a lot of the work myself. I've never done any mechanical work of this magnitude on a car before.

Do breaks first.

Upper control arm bushes are a pain to replace because of the sway bar, but doable in an afternoon. While you're working on the upper control arms, replace the sway bar bushings in the engine bay as well.

Tie rods (and I would actually suggest replacing the entire unit, not just ends) and steering damper are a child's play, but you should do tracking afterwards. This is the only special tool you would need: http://www.amazon.com/OTC-6297-Ball-Joint-Separator/dp/B0015PN010

Front shocks are dead simple to replace. Rear shocks are easy too, unless you're unlucky as I and the upper bolts are totally seized. I've dismantled the rear springs in my parts car, and they're far less scary than the fronts. For the rears you'd want one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Strut-Coil-Spring-Compressor-Mercedes/dp/B0031EMT0G. Let someone else do the fronts ;)

Lower ball joint requires some special tools to press it out and back in, so maybe that's something for the garage to do. Do the lower control arm bushings, and front springs at the same time - they need to be out anyway.

It takes time, but is a lot of fun and satisfaction.
If you need some visual guidance, lookup "Eric The Car Guy" on YouTube. He's working mostly on Japanese cars, but there's a lot of useful hints in his videos.

p.s.: You'll need a torque wrench too, something like a 20-150Nm will do.
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE

jbrasile

Guys,

Anyone who has tackled a complete suspension rebuild by themselves knows how many hours it takes to do the job and how some parts are really labor intensive. The labor figures don't look that bad.

Unless you are experienced enough and have the proper spring compressor, any job requiring the removal of the front springs i.e. the lower control arm bushing replacement, would be best left to a professional, the risk of hurting / killing yourself is not worth the savings. 116 springs are long and quite curvy once installed, they love to jump out at you....

Just my 0.02


Tks

Joe

alabbasi

Mechanics will mark up the costs of parts as it helps cover their overhead, If they don't, they will go out of business pretty fast. The prices that you see online are effectively wholesale prices. I get wholesale pricing at the MB dealer , but if I tried to take a part that I bought from their parts counter and have the service guys put it on, they will flat out refuse.

It's no different then buying a bottle of beer at the supermarket vs buying a bottle of beer at the pub.


With best regards

Al
Dallas, TX USA.

Rimas

Hey thanks a lot Ptashek, that sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the detailed instructions.

Joe, I'm not overly keen on using spring compressors either, is there any job besides lower arm bushing replacement that needs the springs out?

Well said alabbasi.

So today I had a closer look so I could get some photos here.


This photo shows that my power steering fluid is leaking from somewhere, it looks like the steering box.


A very oily steering box. Note my custom steering coupler  8)


Power steering pump also looks a bit leaky.


The high pressure hoses that are bulging.




Here is what the mechanic called the 'yoke' I think.

Is this called a tailshaft coupling? drive shaft bush? It looks like the bolts are off-centre

cheers guys.

Rimas

jbrasile

Rimas,

No, I think the only job that requires the springs to be removed is the  LCA arm bushing replacement. Looks like you definitely have some leaks from the steering box and pump. They can both be re-sealed, the box can get tricky and it is best left to a pro.

Yes, what the shop referred to as a yoke is actually the drive shaft coupling.

Tks

Joe

beagle2022

I can see that there is no shortage of excellent advice.  Over the last three years I have replaced the whole front end, all the springs and shocks, the flexible brake hoses, the flexible coupling and the power steering hydraulic hoses.  It all looks daunting as a list, but is mostly DIY-able if you tackle is one step at a time.

My top priority would be brake hoses.  Being dead is quite permanent and most of the other stuff probably won't actually kill you.

The only time my 116 actually broke down and couldn't be driven home was a burst high pressure power steering line.  It also had the party trick of catching fire because the steering box is right next to the exhaust manifold on RHD models. So I would make that bulging hose an early priority too.

Buy your parts from the USA.  They are a fraction of the cost in Aust and there are some great suppliers recommended on this site. Mercedesource.com also has lots of little youtube videos on some of the jobs you want to do.
Sydney, Australia

oversize

I couldn't agree more re the priorities....  And in an old car it really pays to have an extinguisher handy!
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P

John Hubertz

That flex disc with the off center bolts needs to be replaced ASAP if you are driving the car.  Here is what can happen if they fail:

John Hubertz
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
(Hunter S. Thompson) 

1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
[img width=68 height=73][url="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg"]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg[/url][/img]

ZCarFan

Quote from: jbrasile on 04 May 2013, 09:10 AM
Rimas,

No, I think the only job that requires the springs to be removed is the  LCA arm bushing replacement. Looks like you definitely have some leaks from the steering box and pump. They can both be re-sealed, the box can get tricky and it is best left to a pro.

Yes, what the shop referred to as a yoke is actually the drive shaft coupling.

Tks

Joe

Yoke or coupling... whatever it's called,  you can be sure that ugly thing will generate some significant vibration starting around 100 kph.  :)

Joe, I recall a discussion about these and the consensus was that the cheap aftermarket parts don't last very long and look like the one on Rimas' car in short order.  Is that your experience?

jbrasile

ZCarFan,

I agree. We always use at least OEM and if the price difference isn't too much we buy directly from Mercedes. Stay away from non OEM brands and Chinese made parts.

Tks

Joe


Squiggle Dog

The consensus is to avoid ÜRO brand whenever possible.

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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Heated Seats, 350,000+

Rimas

john, that picture is nasty!!!

Yeah it was one of the first things I was going to do. I have been busy compiling a list and trying to get a decent price for everything. Thanks for the advice on the OEM parts, I was wondering this myself.

Thanks Jbrasile, and Beagle that was some sound advice. I've since stopped using the car so there will be no power-steering fluid fires just yet..

Zcar, I've noticed the vibrations but they are very subtle and at different speeds. I think the flex disc is still doing its' job in the fact that the vibrations through the drivetrain weren't that obvious.

So here is my list so far. I think list making has been an outlet for making me feel like it's under control. I've only gotten through the front half: