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turbo sel 280

Started by albe, 10 June 2012, 01:52 AM

oversize

Personally it ain't a Merc without a Merc engine!  And LS engines are like SBCs; dime a dozen.  It seems to me you're very undecided on how to modify your car.  Maybe you need to walk away for a bit and clear your head??  But at the end of the day it's your car and if you choose to go that way I'll support you!!
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P

albe

Yes your right they are a dime a dozen and more HP comes from them for a dime too .
It would be nice to have a lot of money to buy a late model merc motor and use it but that come's with a huge price tag.
As for it's not a merc with out a merc engine ,does that mean that all the cars such as some Daewoo's four wheel drive and a few more other car's out that run a merc engine's are actually a Mercedes ???I don't think so, I am not trying to sound upset ,but if only we only knew how much of a car is from that maker would you then see that all motor car company's are in bed with each other to such a point that your car could be made up of a hole bag of parts from ford, Mazda, Nissan, Holden, daewoo ,anyone .So I see a car as what its badged not what push's it up the road .In say that it will all ways be a w116 280 sel just running 250kw of chev power . I hope this is not taken the wrong way .I enjoy all feedback Albe

ZCarFan

Quote from: albe on 26 July 2012, 03:35 PM
Yes your right they are a dime a dozen and more HP comes from them for a dime too .
It would be nice to have a lot of money to buy a late model merc motor and use it but that come's with a huge price tag.
As for it's not a merc with out a merc engine ,does that mean that all the cars such as some Daewoo's four wheel drive and a few more other car's out that run a merc engine's are actually a Mercedes ???I don't think so, I am not trying to sound upset ,but if only we only knew how much of a car is from that maker would you then see that all motor car company's are in bed with each other to such a point that your car could be made up of a hole bag of parts from ford, Mazda, Nissan, Holden, daewoo ,anyone .So I see a car as what its badged not what push's it up the road .In say that it will all ways be a w116 280 sel just running 250kw of chev power . I hope this is not taken the wrong way .I enjoy all feedback Albe

The LS engines do offer a great deal of performance for the cost, but don't forget that they also deliver great economy.  Drive it easy and it should be on par with a OM617, just a whole lot faster.

I would think that a stroked TPI motor would behave in a more Mercedes-like fashion with buckets of torque down below 2,000 rpm.  Here in the U.S. the parts to do it are cheap, but I expect it is not so in Australia.  Nevertheless, a decent 383 with TPI will make over 400 HP and 500 ft/lbs of torque, while still delivering 25 mpg in a W116 sized car.   The LS motors are a good bit revvier than the TPI, but those long runners on the TPI make Diesel-like torque.

I am wondering though, why the move away from the turbo M110? 

albe

I moved away from doing the turbo for a few reason
1 The transmission and diff the rev range was all wrong with the car, on 3,500 rpm's at 100 k's ,it would mean a change in the rear end were as with the overdrive in the new auto the diff 3.69 ratio will work well and it will take the horse power as it is same build as 450 sel
2  Then there was the cost of a manifold at 1,000 plus and then the head work on the m110 and it's valve  train that would need to be set right at a cost I do not want to think about .
3 And then the 2,000 to take your guess in cost for the efi set up and heltect ecu

At the end of the day 3,500 for new drive trian I can fit myself and get great horse power from at a low cost it made more since  to go with the newer then stick with the old . :)

philpot

You know you'll be over-capitalising it in a big way!

albe

In the words of master card (priceless)
It's not so I can sell it .Its so I can injoy it . Plus it's fun making something your own .  ;D

oversize

Nah no offence taken; I have thicker skin than that!!!  I hear what you're saying and an LS engine is certainly a cost effective route to more power.  And if it keeps a W116 on the road, then I'm all for it!  Consult an engineer before you spend a cent to make sure it can be registered with what you have in mind....
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P

albe

I work in a small used car yard and the guy's thinks it will work and transport goes on ltr's to weight and the car will be lighter by 48kg when the old six comes out for the new ls1 so all good .The same chassis came out with a 6.9 ltr so don't think 5.7 is that big. My mane concern is the sump and auto tunnel in the car .If the motor can't go forward to fit well I will have to look at a dry sump .So I can get it to seat where it looks good ,then there is the steering box I don't want to think about that right now lol .But that said there is not much difference in the m117 to the ls1 in bottom end shape from what I have googled but I don't believe all that is read on line . The motor and box we be here on Monday and I will get the tape out and start to think hard on how I will make this work . I have been told that the drive shaft's are the same as the one's used in the 450 and that the diff is just as strong as them as well which is good news .I can't wait to get started on the swap it's going to be a real test of my skill level's .But the first drive of the lights next to a late model car with power that want's to have a go is going to be the best feeling ever . ;D 

rob280sel

I seen on Ebay a while back a 450 with a the old V8 out and a 2JZ-GTE stuffed down its neck, said to be a weapon. With way better fuel economy. LOL
Like your idea.
I have the fuel injected M110 in my 74 SEL.

Casey

#24
Quote from: rob280sel on 09 August 2012, 12:08 AM
I seen on Ebay a while back a 450 with a the old V8 out and a 2JZ-GTE stuffed down its neck, said to be a weapon. With way better fuel economy. LOL

When I was in California perusing junkyards I came across a W115 240D with some sort of Toyota engine in it.  No idea if it was a 2JZ-GTE or not but that would have been utterly ridiculous with 321hp and a 240D badge on the trunk!  Not my cup of tea at all (I'd use some other MB engine myself) and I had a good chuckle at it, but to each their own.  I don't think the LS1 is out of place for the already quite customized car.  I'd be removing the trunk badge and filling in the holes if I were you, though.

There was a "Benzolet" - a conversion with a Chevy big block engine, for sale a while back.  Fast as they may be, they don't sell well.

I wonder if you could fit a Chevy 572 in there. 9.4 liter, 602hp, probably around 6-8mpg.  8)

graham

Step 1: Decide how much power you want.
Step 2: Work out how much power your drivetrain, original or modified, can take.
Step 3: Modify step 1 as appropriate, and decide if you really need a turbo.

LS engines are superb. The LS7 is a monster of a crate motor, but (and as has been said) it's not a Merc motor.

M100s with M117 intakes are said to be good, but research this: I have no personal experience.

The M110 was superceded by the M103, and Turbo Technics in the UK made good money selling twin-turbo conversions for the M103. I had one set up for ~300rwhp.

Forced induction on the M110 is an idea that appeals to me, but having owned a W114 coupe fitted with a normally aspirated 235hp M110 I'm not sure it is necessary.

So, what do you really want? A turbo for turbos sake (itself a worthy goal  ;)), or simply more power? If it is a technical challenge you 're after, go normally aspirated. Stick with the M110, ditch the fuel injection and fit throttle bodies and a Megasquirt (or similar) kit. You may be surprised at the results, both in terms of performance and personal satisfaction.

oversize

M117 intakes; do you mean valves, or manifold?
1979 6.9 #5541 (Red Bull)
1978 6.9 #4248 (Skye)
1979 6.9 #3686 (Moby Dick)
1978 6.9 #1776 (Dora)
1977 450SEL #7010 white -P
1975 450SEL #8414 gold -P

graham

Quote from: oversize on 17 August 2012, 06:06 AM
M117 intakes; do you mean valves, or manifold?
I'll run the risk of looking a complete idiot. (I'm probably halfway there.)

Just the airfilter setup from a 560 - the twin snorkel configuration is better than the system fitted to the W116. I think I have some figures to back this up, and a citation that the breathing of the M100 is hampered by it's standard air filter system.

(Now ducking for cover...)

Big_Richard

#28
.

graham

Quote from: Major Tom 6.9 on 17 August 2012, 03:40 PMI have in the past test driven my 6.9 round the block with no air filter housing installed at all and it does in fact make a massive difference to performance and responsiveness. The standard air filter housing is quite restrictive indeed.
Thanks MT.

As you'll have gathered, my experience of 6.9s is limited so I'm applying experience to the design I see. I think the 560 air filter will fit straight on to the distribution head of the M100, leaving 'just' the challenge of ensuring it and the snorkels are securely mounted.

For those that want it, this may also introduce a little more induction roar. I suspect that the original system was intended to provide silence and as a consequence was quite restrictive.

Bear in mind that for optimum results this needs to be the housing from the 560SE(L/C). The 560SL had a single snorkel design fitted due to the more restricted under-bonnet space.