Author Topic: Troubleshooting high speed vibration  (Read 433 times)

rumb

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #15 on: 19 August 2020, 05:30 PM »
A few years back I had a conversation with URO parts regarding flex disks. Huge debacle over on benzworld where the moderators would not allow URO to be a forum sponsor. Even though 85%+ forum members want them to be a sponsor the mods had it in for them.  I took the position of going out and actually learning from URO and corrected many false assumptions they were making to the point that someone then attacked me as a shill for URO.

URO made flex disks for several models of MB (R107 and I think W126) and they were a true disaster. They could make the same shape, but without the magic MB rubber formula they would never work.  Any other supplier faces the same challenge - MB just wont give them the rubber formula. URO did extensive testing and decided they could never make one as good as MB.

Speaking of URO, as MB gets out of the parts business URO has been backfilling and makes a lot of MB parts.  URO is also a OEM supplier to MB.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

ptashek

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #16 on: 20 August 2020, 03:51 AM »
Now come on, your presence here is very welcome, and not an annoyance (not to me at least) even if we disagree on things due to different experiences. Just a part of life. Let's file this one under "continue to agree to disagree" and move on.

I wish those companies would openly say, if that is the case, listen we're not really able to make what MB make, because we're to cheap or lack the engineering capability, or simply can't for legal reasons. That ain't going to happen though.
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ptashek

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #17 on: 20 August 2020, 03:56 AM »
URO did extensive testing and decided they could never make one as good as MB.

"As good" as in service-life, or performance? Service life is less of an issue, if the final cost due to more frequent replacements does not run higher than OEM parts would cost.

Performance can be tricky. The part may not perform as good as OEM, but is still performing within safety limits. Or it's total crap-a-palooza (seems to be a theme with URO?).
1993 "Pearl Blue" W124 280TE
1988 "Arctic White" W124 200T
1979 "Icon Gold" W116 450SE (history, resto)

rumb

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #18 on: 20 August 2020, 04:21 AM »
Unfortunately those specific flex disks tended to explode.  :o :o

I have used a handful of their other parts that seem quite good. Turn Signal stalk for w126 appeared identical and has been fine for years now.
'68 250S, '77 6.9 euro, '91 300SE, '98 SL500 '14 CLS550

john erbe

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #19 on: 21 August 2020, 05:53 PM »
In my case it was a wheel bearing. Vibration started in around 85. Find a tire shop that has the now hard to find machine that can spin the wheel on the car. Helps locate the problem if it's one side vs the other.

floyd111

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #20 on: 02 September 2020, 07:54 PM »
"We can't make them the same way Mercedes does for copyright reasons.  Since physical shape is important for fitment, we have to sacrifice material quality.  We use less expensive metal barrels that the bolts go through, less expensive thread that goes in the rubber, and we have to use a lesser quality rubber material.  Since Mercedes lets us and a few other use their original molds, we are required by Mercedes to grind/scratch off the Mercedes part number and Mercedes star if present after we make our own versions.  People often mistake our products for genuine Mercedes because of the part number being scratched off, but the reality is that what we make is not anywhere close to a genuine Mercedes part.  We're not even allowed to sell genuine Mercedes discs even with the numbers and Star scratched off. If we did we'd be paying large fines and/or be in jail.  That's not to say that we don't make a good product, but our viewpoint is that we want to offer a product that is affordable to the masses, and if it vibrates a little at high speeds then that has to be better than a damaged/broken disc." 

I've worked in the industry for a few years. Not a single company, especially what can be considered a Tier-1 supplier, would ever issue a statement like this to a random person, let alone disclose such detail. This is an extremely hermetic world, especially when it comes to anything IP related. Unless you can furnish verifiable proof that these companies said this, I'm calling bullshit on this one. I'll happily eat my hat and apologise if you do, and we'll have this debate settled once and for all.

Lucas, given your age and exposure, you should know that experience doesn't always make us the wiser.   I have no idea why they were so open with me....maybe because I questioned them about why the Mercedes and aftermarket ones were made from different materials but had their company name on them?  Even the Shore hardness was off between the two.  One would bend easily, and the other one was hard as a brick.  With your credentials, I'm very shocked that you don't know that what they make aftermarket is never the same as what they make for Mercedes Proper.  It's common knowledge that on something like this that the same mold is used, but different materials are used. 

These emails took place one year to one and a half years ago, and I cannot place them at the moment,and I may not even be able to, as I delete emails regularly after they're a month old.  So there is no way I can show you proof of the correspondence.  It really bothers me that you feel I'd make something like this up.  I ask is that you give me and everyone else the benefit of the doubt before you call bulls*&t.  However, if you leave this conversation thinking as such, then there is nothing I can do.   I realize that my presence on here annoys you to no end....and I'm not even sure why....but do know that I care.  I wouldn't purposely lead anyone astray on a subject matter such as this.  It's just not who I am or what I'm about.

May I chip in here, and give my 2 cents?
As a former (extremely unsuccessful) Meyle and Febi distributor for Taiwan, I also have bits of data to share.
I hear talk of Uro, Febi, Meyle "research and development"
I can't judge their complete history from day 1, but in these modern times of greed and disposability, one has to seriously take all that "research and development" with a barrel of salt.
And, while I don't doubt for a second the mails that UTC received, I would advise the very same, regarding the content of those mails.

What these German (but quietly Singapore-based, mostly Asian-run-offices) aftermarket companies do (in most cases) is ask their Singapore office to scout Alibaba for Asian producers of whatever part type they are looking for, hand them specs, and then await quotes, samples and lead times.
There then may be a a check, but only THEY know to what extent that happens, depending on the part at hand.
After that they decide on the cheapest supplier and stuff the re-branded boxes for global distribution.
As long as the chinese supplier doesn't rock the boat, there is continuance.
As long as there aren't a lot of end-user complaints, resulting in a drop of sales, there is continuance.
In all other cases the complete process recommences. No glory, no mystery, no rocket science.

As far as copyright is concerned, one can only be informed if one were to know each genuine part's independent status. Even at MB Stuttgart there isn't a person alive that could tell you, without first assembling a back-up army of lawyers and consultants for a deep quest into the warehouses full of legal data.
Copyright only applies if the design has a unique technical or aesthetic feature that was patented by MB. And, to complicate things even more, it would have to be an issue important enough for MB's legal department to actually care about, and only after making an assessment if the case could actually be won in court, -and within what time span and at what cost.
Only after all of that could there  possibly be talk about 'patented rubber make-up being a hindrance to producing identical quality pattern parts. -Unlikely" would be my personal assessment.

Next up is what most of us know. Mercedes used to do all their massive research and development themselves or in close tandem with the likes of Bosch, SKF, etc.etc.
They either produced in their own factories, or it was done in close tandem by big, solid European producers.
These days we are finding the "Made in China labels" more and more, so one may have varied opinions about what exactly is to be expected from a genuine Part as to who exactly is doing the research, development and QC and how much of it.
What you can be sure of is that whatever anyone of importance at MB tells you is -at best- going to be a microscopic insight in the production of a microscopic part of the parts that mercedes produces and the (very temporary) policies regarding that microscopic segment.

Was that a rant? In that case, //rant off// ;D
« Last Edit: 02 September 2020, 08:02 PM by floyd111 »

TJ 450

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Re: Troubleshooting high speed vibration
« Reply #21 on: 03 September 2020, 02:58 AM »
Can you still buy the Lemfeorder boxed flex disc? IIRC they had the MB star ground off, I have them on my 6.9. These were purchase back in 2014 though.

Tim
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