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Transmission Rebuild, 6.9

Started by TJ 450, 03 January 2009, 07:56 AM

TJ 450

Borrowing this photo from the M-100 site shows that the part is probably correct in its own right. Note the circlip on this one. The larger section is at the top of the shafts in the pics above. It is a good few mm larger.



Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Big_Richard

looks like your a victim of "multiple versions"

I'll boot up the epc computer.

Big_Richard

according to the EPC you have the correct part, the EPC also has the snap ring, which was also absent from your transmission. Its lacking any information referencing a part supercession. that shaft you have with the beefier end is the correct version for all v8's for every market.

NFI WTF is going on with yours having a narrower one.

koan

Quote from: Patrick Bateman on 06 April 2009, 06:19 PM
its the top section in the top photo, you can see its totally different,

Yes I can see that PB, but the comment about the new part was "larger diameter" not different machining that may or may not be the problem.

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

TJ 450

I still have not resolved the issues with the stator shaft or the drive shafts.

I've been going through all the parts and preparing them. The transmission casing has clean and polished mating surfaces. I received the full seal kit as well.

I don't have my camera at the moment, but I have noted the most obvious differences that make up the extra length. It's the rearmost clutch pack, where its drum is a good 10mm wider.
The output shaft also has six planets in its gear set, rather than the three on the 450's unit.

The 450's front and intermediate shafts fit in the 6.9's unit perfectly and the ring gears swap straight over, although I'm not jumping that way unless I really have to.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Andreas

How is your gearbox coming along?

I am getting mine redone to solve a leak and the trans specialist rang today with some bad news. The rear someting or rather (sorry forgot name of part thnk it was rear drum pack) is damaged because the rear circlip sheared off. Now trying to find new part. fortunatley did not blow whole gearbox up as it can do.  ouch new one is very expensive and i cant get to my parts car to get to try and remove that trans so I can get the other one fixed up... Ahhhhhh!!!!

It looks like i will need some advise getting the old one out of my parts car . So if you have any advise for me TJ I would appreciate it very much.

Cheers
Andreas
78 450 SEL Parting out
78 450 SEL Saving for parts
79 450 SEL 6.9  #5332
77 450 SEL 6.9 Euro # 1696
77 450 SEL 6.9 Euro #1577
78 450 SEL 6.9  # 4172
76 280 S     Manual Parting
80 280 SE  Possible Parts Car
74 350 SLC  Thinking converting to race

TJ 450

A failed circlip on a clutch pack wouldn't go down too well.  :o

The best way to remove the gearbox is to remove it with the engine and separate them out of the car. You can then refit the engine and use a block of wood on the subframe as a suitable support for the rear of the engine, as per the manual.

Removing it in-situ is more than rather difficult, as the car should really be on a lift to get the required clearance. Even getting at the bolts on the bellhousing is exceedingly difficult.

The torque converter has to come off with the transmission to prevent damage to the shafts. It is fixed to the flex plate with three pairs of small bolts. These are accessed by removing the plate at the bottom of the bellhousing (actually on the adapter plate) and rotating the crankshaft accordingly.

Here's a pic of the clutch pack K1. There is a circlip on the hollow shaft and an outer circlip.


Here is a pic of the torque converter bolt holes. There are three pairs of these. The middle bolt is just for the ring gear, they remain in place. The TC is held in place with a spigot into the crankshaft rear plate, which may require some careful levering to remove.


Regarding my transmission,

I'm about to start rebuilding the clutch packs on my transmission, as soon as I collect the friction discs from P.B.

After that, when I pick up the bellhousing from the machine shop, I'll be reassembling the entire unit. The plan is for a pictorial as well.

It won't be long before my transmission is complete. :)

I will have to remove the engine from the car, fit the transmission and reinstall the engine and trans as one unit. It's far too dangerous to do otherwise, as I only have jack stands.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

koan

Quote from: TJ 450 on 29 April 2009, 09:44 AM
It won't be long before my transmission is complete. :)

Have you resolved the input shaft difference?

What are you going to do?

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

Andreas

Thanks for that. I like all the pictures If you have more i would love to have some. I was afraid it would be to hard I may have to take the car to my friends place he has a pit.

Cheers
Andreas
78 450 SEL Parting out
78 450 SEL Saving for parts
79 450 SEL 6.9  #5332
77 450 SEL 6.9 Euro # 1696
77 450 SEL 6.9 Euro #1577
78 450 SEL 6.9  # 4172
76 280 S     Manual Parting
80 280 SE  Possible Parts Car
74 350 SLC  Thinking converting to race

TJ 450

I should have some pics soon, Andreas.

Koan,

It has been resolved in a round about fashion. PB discovered that there are two versions of the stator shaft, although only one is assigned a part number.

This is because the early version is fixed, meaning that you are not mean't to remove it and the only proper way of replacing it is to renew the bellhousing.

Clearly, that is not a practical way of going, so I was advised of a transmission repair shop who claims to be able to source these early shafts. I'm not holding my breath over it though.
He says he can otherwise machine the new version down so it is an interferance fit. I gave him all the parts (bellhousing and stator shafts) and whichever way, I should get it back soon with a new shaft.

As for the other shafts (intermediate and front), I'm either going with a brass sleeve on the old shafts (instead of the needle roller) or the 450 versions. The bloke reckons the latter would be the better option, but I'm still considering.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

koan

Quote from: TJ 450 on 30 April 2009, 11:56 AM
As for the other shafts (intermediate and front), I'm either going with a brass sleeve on the old shafts (instead of the needle roller) or the 450 versions. The bloke reckons the latter would be the better option, but I'm still considering.

Why can't the shaft be sleeved to use the needle bearing?

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

TJ 450

That's what I'm trying to work out myself... none of these guys seem to entertain the idea. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult.
In fact, so far, no one in the industry has given me any definite answers to my questions other than telling me to throw it in the bin, besides this latest guy!

Anyway, this latest guy seems to know what he's doing, so I'll ask him next time I'm down there about a hardened sleeve for the bearing to run on.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Andreas

Tj I got some good news this morning regarding my transmission. They found a spare KS drum pack for me. Now the important informatation(i found out today) may for you is that some of the internals of the 6.9 gearbox are also the same as a porche gear box. I now have a porche part in my gearbox and it will all be fixed with no pulling the parts car apart without a hoist. :D

Thank god for that I can now concentrate on my shed building exeercise.

cheers
andreas
78 450 SEL Parting out
78 450 SEL Saving for parts
79 450 SEL 6.9  #5332
77 450 SEL 6.9 Euro # 1696
77 450 SEL 6.9 Euro #1577
78 450 SEL 6.9  # 4172
76 280 S     Manual Parting
80 280 SE  Possible Parts Car
74 350 SLC  Thinking converting to race

TJ 450

Hmmm, the same as a Porsche gearbox... I suspect that would be of the 928S. That would make a lot of sense, perhaps I should hunt one down and measure the casing.  8)

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

nathan

what model was the good Dr Bills? ;)
1979 116 6.9 #6436
2018 213 e63
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