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Tips for future owner

Started by Zagato, 19 October 2008, 03:23 AM

Zagato

Hello W116 fans!

I'm thinking about purchasing a 1974 450SE, a Canadian-NorthAmerican-spec model. It's got about 200,000+ 'miles' (or could be confused for kilometres). I've spoken with the owner through email and the vehicle looks in good condition. Even got original owners manuals and original tool kit! However, the service history is incomplete.

I'm going to take a look at it in person next week.
Do you guys have any tips and stuff I need to look out for?

Thanks!

koan

Quote from: Zagato on 19 October 2008, 03:23 AM

I'm thinking about purchasing a 1974 450SE


You've come to the right place. Click on the "LIBRARY" link and you'll find lots of info, the last two links under "Articles", Fact File S-Class and Buyers Guide 450SEL are particularly relevant.

Good Luck.

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

John Hubertz

Rust.

These cars are frameless and the body is the structure.

Do not purchase a rusty car.

John Hubertz
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
(Hunter S. Thompson) 

1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
[img width=68 height=73][url="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg"]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg[/url][/img]

Zagato

Well I looked at it, wasn't in as a great condition as I thought, but I made a gamble and bought it.
There are quite a few problems with the car and maybe you can give me some tips on improving it?

Having bought it for $1100, it's definitely not showroom perfect.

More obvious problems: The air conditioning is broken, the instrument back lights are broken, the indicator stalk won't stay in place for right turns, the rear passenger side seat belt is stuck, the rear driver side seat belt is broken, the cigarette lighter is disconnected, the driver's side door mirror control is stuck, the driver's side stop light is broken, and the exhaust is ear-bleeding loud.

Less obvious problems: The temperature gauge sometimes gets stuck on highest when started, same with oil pressure, can't move the dash clock, there's a small amount of rust bubbles around the front near the passenger side headlight and on the rear driver's side wheel arch, the paint is fading on the driver's side C-Pillar and rear wing, the high-beam dash indicator doesn't come on, and there's a single piece of the radiator grill is missing.

Problems I'd like to get fixed as soon as possible:
-There's a squeeking sound coming from the back, passenger side when I go over bumps. I assume it's the shock absorber. The car sits way too low! I keep scraping my front license plate on the parking lot concrete blocks!
-The exhaust is very loud. The previous owner said the previous previous owner did something to it to make it 'sporty' but I'm not so sure.
-After a long drive, a faint humming noise can be heard in the cabin. Could it be the head lights?
-After a few hours of stop-start city driving, the engine gets quite hot. I'm not saying there's steam pouring out or the temperature gauge is off the scale, it's just that right after the drive, I'm afraid to open the hood because the radiator grill is a bit hot. Is this normal?
-The windscreen washer doesn't work. It looks as though the battery is sitting on the tube. This the problem?
-The indicator stalk will not stay in place for right turns, so I have to hold it. Left turns work, but it sometimes doesn't go in.
-The tracking is off. The car pulls to the right a bit. Also, the steering wheel isn't quite on straight. Could the problem be the power steering?

Things I fixed: The brakes were rubbish. On the way home from purchasing the car, the brakes went to the floor during heavy traffic. There was still braking power, but it was a pain to stop it and hold it at traffic lights. The next day it was back to normal. I figured there was air in the system (the last recorded brake fluid change was in 1989!) so I had it flushed. They seem to be worked fine now... so far.
Before the fluid was changed, the rear passenger side wheel was discovered to have a seized bolt. It was impossible to removed with proper tools. I had no choice but allow them to blow torch the bolt off despite their warnings the hub and wheel will be damaged. It worked, and the hub was not damaged. However, the wheel was deformed. So I went back into heavy traffic with a deformed wheel and one wheel bolt missing. I'll be getting a replacement bolt and wheel tomorrow.

Besides all these problems, I love this car. The engine, despite its size, sounds so much 'meatier' than the newer engines in the W126. However, the car accelerates quite slowly. Or because the speedo is in miles per hour, while I'm used to kilometres per hour.
The brown leather interior is perfect with no tears or scratches, but the seats sag a bit. Despite the paint work problems on one side, the dark green exterior is fabulous. Despite the faulty tracking, the car is fun to drive, if too loud. I also love how I got the original service book with entries all the way from 1974.

The car has 204,000+ miles, but the last proper service entry was at 180,000 miles. So I guess I don't need to change the timing chain?

I currently use it to drive to my classes. Will post pictures of the car later!

John Hubertz

Yes, pictures please!

I'm surprised at the ride height issue - few of these cars have problems with suspension drop thus I wonder if a previous owner heated the springs.

Sadly - not an easy fix.  These springs are a nightmare to remove and reinstall.

Regarding parts - you'll be amazed at how cheaply w116 parts can be had!

http://www.car-part.com  that is my source, and I'm not gaining a thing by sharing it.  I've been brokering luxury used parts for years from their 18,000 + yards.  Another great element is that these are general-parts yards and just GIVE away MB stuff, as they can't bear to crush them, but the yards listed here are the biggest and best nationwide.

This is the old Hollander group - and the parts also cross-reference across years and vehicle lines - thus you can buy your Bosch fuel pump from a Volvo that is identical and cheap.

Check it out...  you'll be amazed.
John Hubertz
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
(Hunter S. Thompson) 

1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
[img width=68 height=73][url="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg"]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg[/url][/img]

BAR

The air conditioning is broken:
Does the compressor switch on?  If it does and you just don't get cold air, take it to an aircon place and get them to check for leaks before regassing.
The instrument back lights are broken:
Do you mean that they don't turn on?  These are simple globes [half a dozen of them] that are mounted at the back of the instrument binnacle.  There are also half a dozen in the centre console.  You'll need to pull the binnacle and check each globe [and the warning light globes] then buy the new ones to fix. 
The indicator stalk won't stay in place for right turns: the rear passenger side seat belt is stuck, the rear driver side seat belt is broken.
Easily replaced with a used unit from a wrecker.  The rear seat belts can only be accessed by removing the rear seat first.
The cigarette lighter is disconnected:
Remove the ash tray and undo the metal surround.  Look to the left hand side for wiring, sometime folks use this power to feed their radios if they have replaced the original units.  It may also just be a blown fuse.
The driver's side door mirror control is stuck:
This is easily inspected and serviced, a small screw holds in place the chrome triagular cover behind the adjusting lever.  By the way, the lever trim [black plastic] is removed by sliding the plastic cap underneathe and then it comes off.  Once these two are off, then you can undo the mirror from inside the car and set to fixing the stuck bits or replacing it.
The driver's side stop light is broken:
Is the globe blown?  If so follow directions in the owners manul and replace with new globe.  If the lens is broken, get a replacement from a wrecker.
The exhaust is ear-bleeding loud:
Well a new resonator and / or muffler should solve this, but none that I have seen in the after market world are as quiet as the original factory units.

Less obvious problems: The temperature gauge sometimes gets stuck on highest when started, same with oil pressure – could be a temporary electrical short that sends full power to the circuit.  Can't move the dash clock
check this out, when you take out the instrument binnacle to replace light globes.
The high-beam dash indicator doesn't come on
check this out, when you take out the instrument binnacle to replace light globes.
There's a single piece of the radiator grill is missing:
Easily replaced with a used unit from a wrecker

Problems I'd like to get fixed as soon as possible: -There's a squeeking sound coming from the back, passenger side when I go over bumps. I assume it's the shock absorber:
This could be because the self levelling system is not working properly, get the rear end looked at by a knowledgeable mechanic before spending money on the wrong parts.
After a long drive, a faint humming noise can be heard in the cabin. Could it be the head lights?
Never heard of a headlight humming, most often it could be the fuel pump.
After a few hours of stop-start city driving, the engine gets quite hot. I'm not saying there's steam pouring out or the temperature gauge is off the scale, it's just that right after the drive, I'm afraid to open the hood because the radiator grill is a bit hot. Is this normal?
Engines may run at 80 deg or 90 deg Celcius. Check that the thermostat is working properly and also that the front auxillary [electric] fan is working, this one is usually set to switch on some 10 degrees higher than the engine fan.
The windscreen washer doesn't work. It looks as though the battery is sitting on the tube.
The washer pump is separate from and sits below the bottle and sometimes the parts corrode, when this happens, the water leaks out or the motor dies.  I bought an aftermarket unit and attached it to the car.
The tracking is off. The car pulls to the right a bit. Also, the steering wheel isn't quite on straight. Could the problem be the power steering?
More likely to be wheel alignment problem, but could also be related to ball joints and bushes.  Power steering only helps you turn the wheels, it doesn't cause a differential turn radius for each wheel. Get this looked at by a mechanic.

The car has 204,000+ miles, but the last proper service entry was at 180,000 miles. So I guess I don't need to change the timing chain?
Get this looked at by a mechanic.  There are guides and the like for the chain that wear, so better safe than sorry.  If the chain slips a tooth, well you will have bent valves etc,  the head has to come off and it's expensive: 3 times more than what you paid for the car.

Zagato

#6
Thanks for the tips guys!
I don't think it'll be hard to get used replacement parts. I know of a giant wrecking site selling used car parts. Sadly, the W116 is very, very rare in my city. However, the R107 roadster and W123 sedan are pretty common. Are the seatbelts and indicator stalks from these cars identical to those in the W116?

I'm also ordering a Haynes manual for my W116 to help me disassemble the dash instruments.

For the things I need a mechanic to look at, should I bring it to a Mercedes dealer?

Edit: Also, from stand still to when the car is in drive, but not accelerating, the car moves forward noticeably quicker than other cars I drive. This normal, or is it getting more fuel at idle than it should?

TJ 450

Hi Zagato,

The R107 stalk may be the same part, but I couldn't say for sure.

With a car such as yours, servicing at a dealer is not advisable unless you have extremely deep pockets. ;)

The best option for economical repairs is a good indy mechanic or better still, doing it yourself if you're up to it.

One needs to be careful not to take on too much at once, though. If the car is basically sound and if you work through it methodically, you will end up with an impressive piece of machinery. :)

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

oscar

Quote from: TJ 450 on 26 October 2008, 10:38 PM
One needs to be careful not to take on too much at once, though. If the car is basically sound and if you work through it methodically, you will end up with an impressive piece of machinery. :)

Definitely! Do one thing at a time, concentrate on the mechanicals first.  There's a big list of things to do and BAR's pretty well covered it all.  There's so much you can do yourself and you'll benefit from it.   Of course, there's other things you can't do as well.   So as far as finding a good indpendant mechanic, unless there's a few Canadian's here that have recommendations, google the Mercedes Club of Canada, I'm sure they've got a forum and it will have recommendations for where to go that's close to you.

The Hayne's manual is good for the V8's, but it doesn't cover the instrument cluster.  But that's no prob, there's so many that have taken them apart.  Just pull the thing out towards you then start undoing all the leads and hoses etc.  Lay it out facedown and you'll soon see how it's all put together.  Search for "tacho" or "speedo" and you'll find relevant threads. 

Another thing, I noticed you said the turn signal wont stay on.  In general, there seems to be many sometimes subtle differences between pre76 and post76 w116 parts.  Most indicator stalks have plastic mechanisms but early indicator stalks have metal innards.  When you remove the rubber grommet from the steering shaft you'll soon see but if yours is metal there's a good chance that a bit of work with a small file will restore its functionality.  Look here

One more point, the oil pressure gauge will stay high until the engine warms up.  Even then you'll only see it drop when idling.  The rest of the time whilst you're driving it should stay at the maximum (3Bar/45psi depending on gauge version)
1973 350SE, my first & fave

Zagato

Quote from: TJ 450 on 26 October 2008, 10:38 PM

With a car such as yours, servicing at a dealer is not advisable unless you have extremely deep pockets. ;)

The best option for economical repairs is a good indy mechanic or better still, doing it yourself if you're up to it.

Ah, okay. It's just that throughout most of this car's history, it was serviced at a dealer not too far from where I live. It's just very tempting to have the car visit the place one more time after 19 years.  ;D

Also, Pictures!
In the shop getting brake fluid flushed - http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00kp4.png
Side - http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01xg9.png
Quarter Front - http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02bo8.png
Rear - http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03lm8.png
Interior 1 - http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=04rq9.png
Interior 2 - http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=05qa0.png
Interior 3 - http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06yw5.png
Interior 4 - http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=07hg7.png
Interior 5 - http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=08gr9.png
Interior 6 - http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=09ku5.png
Interior 7 - http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10pw2.png
Chrome, long hood, and the three-pointed star - http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11zd7.png
Head-On - http://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12ih0.png


Oh yeah, almost forgot. Since someone changed the radio over for a cassette sometime in the 80's, I don't know how to raise the radio antenna. Anyone got an idea?

oscar

zagato that looks awsome 8) 8) 8)

Re the radio antenna. It's manual.  It's another one of those early version pre76 things.  Any w116 with an antenna on the front right fender will be manual unless modified by a custom setup.  Later models had the antenna powered and in the rear left quarter panel.

If the antenna is stuck down you need a key of sorts to pop it up.   Look around just above the base of the antenna and you'll see a little horizontal slit with a vertical pin in the middle.  You need two thin objects like thin nails to push in either side of that pin and the antenna will pop up.  The actual key has a "U" shape end.  The U goes aound the vrtical pin and you push it in to unlock the antenna.  It wasn't uncommon to find something similar in aussie Fords and I use a key from an 80's Fairlane to unlock mine.
1973 350SE, my first & fave

450se1979

Zagato,

Looking over your post there are some easy fix problems.
The lights in your instrumentcluster run through a dimmer ( located next to the tripmeter reset).
90 times out of a hundred this dimmer is the culprit, after all these years it stops functioning.
The easiest remedie ( worked for me), is to pull the instrumentcluster foreward a bit, ( don't forget to undo the spedometer cable, NOT the oilpressure tube!!!!), to get enough clearance.
On the rear of the dimmer are 3 wires. just hotwire the bottom 2 and your instruments will light like a christmas tree again.
As to the saggy drivers seat; mostly the seatsprings in the frame are worn. To fix this cheap but effective, you haven to get an innertube of a wheelbarrow and stuff this between the seatsprings and
the seatstuffing. Then inflate the innertube to your desired comfort.
Since the car hasn't  been serviced for a few years it is wise to change all the cars fluids, enginecoolant,
engine oil and oilfilter, transmissionfluid an transmissionfluid filter!!. The brakefluid has been changed allready, good going 8)
Since the selfleveling suspension is not working you wil have quite a challenge there....the shocks are outrageously priced.

Succes,


Jeen
450se1979
289k km
Netherlands

Zagato

#12
I've fixed the brake light. However, I've encountered another problem. There is a grinding sound when turning the steering wheel in parking lots and sorts. Help?

I'm planning to change the spark plugs because they might be very worn. The car is difficult to start in cold weather, it's eating more gas than it should (maybe 9 mpg!), and it seems to struggles a bit when accelerating past 30 mph.

John Hubertz

Out of curiosity (wonderful WONDERFUL looking machine BTW) 

Why do so many people scorch out the license plate numbers on their cars when posting to the 'net?
John Hubertz
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
(Hunter S. Thompson) 

1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
[img width=68 height=73][url="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg"]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/fullhappyfish/max.jpg[/url][/img]