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tappet noise

Started by Pete49, 15 August 2018, 10:37 PM

Pete49

Guys on my W116 450 SEL I Have tappet rattle on No 5 inlet valve I found it when I, in desperation, removed the rocker from that valve and when I started the motor rattle was gone and when replaced it came back. The gap is set at 4 thou and no other rattle in the rest of the valves and all gaps set as per manual. Any help would save a lot of hair  :D
Pete
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

Randys01

I'm guessing yours is an early D jetronic solid tappet motor?

You either have: oil starvation due to blockage of the overhead dripper pipe to no 5 inlet
                            - u can crank the motor to determine there is oil flowing
                         :a worn valve guide
                            - hily unlikely that there would be only one in the whole motor partic an inlet
                         :a  weirdly worn relationship between the rocker socket and the ball pin it pivots on
                            -again not uncommon but only one clapped out?
                               : swap inlet rockers to see if it eliminates or aggravates.

Pete49

Quote from: Randys01 on 16 August 2018, 04:15 AM
I'm guessing yours is an early D jetronic solid tappet motor?

its a 1978 model
You either have: oil starvation due to blockage of the overhead dripper pipe to no 5 inlet
                            - u can crank the motor to determine there is oil flowing
Yep oil is flowing good
                         :a worn valve guide
                            - hily unlikely that there would be only one in the whole motor partic an inlet
yep sounds real weird but its the only 1
                         :a  weirdly worn relationship between the rocker socket and the ball pin it pivots on
                            -again not uncommon but only one clapped out?
Yep only 1 noisy tappet
                               : swap inlet rockers to see if it eliminates or aggravates.
I'll check it in the morning and report back.
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

Pete49

UPDATE:  Found the problem I think. Changed the rocker from good exhaust and inlet and the noise went to  No 5 exhaust. when I compared the 2 rockers the rocker on No 5 inlet is badly worn compared to the other so now need to find a rocker for the 450 and all should be good.  Anybody got a spare they want to sell?
Pete
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

Randys01

Pete
In a forum as broad as this, it pays to headline your problem with your model Merc.   ie year/variant. Otherwise we are guessing. ???

Now something is not computing here.

If yours is a 78 then it is a K jetronic hydraulic valve lifter variant.

If this is correct, there is no valve clearance...??? wtf??   What manual has directed you to "gaps as per manual?' In any case, 4 thous  doesn't sound enuff for a solid lifter motor and it should be nil in a hydra motor. Have you got the right manual for that car?   

Let's start with the correctly identifying the engine variant..........

btw..Both the hydraulic valve lifter and the rocker arm are different between K and D jetronic motors......coz the D earlier motor is a "solid lifter motor".

Pete49

The manual I refer to is on this forum and the sticker on the rocker cover gives me the same info. While the body is a '78 I'm not sure the motor is. Is there a way to work out which motor I have other than its a 450? I've ordered a rocker arm which should be here in a couple weeks.  I'm in new territory here as I normally was driving a W 123 280TE as a daily driver.
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

Pete49

The manual I refer to is on this forum and the sticker on the rocker cover gives me the same info. While the body is a '78 I'm not sure the motor is. Is there a way to work out which motor I have other than its a 450? I've ordered a rocker arm which should be here in a couple weeks.  I'm in new territory here as I normally was driving a W 123 280TE as a daily driver.
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

marku

The easy way is to look at the engine. If it is K-jet then it has what looks like a spider sitting in the middle with metal pipes going to the cylinders. If D-jet then it has a fuel pipe that runs around in a ring connected to the individual electric injectors connected to the ring by small diameter hoses.
1974 450SE silver green/bamboo velour/green vinyl roof

Randys01

Pete

We South Ozzies have to stick together!! but Marku took the words right outa my mouth.
The K jetronic is a cast iron black fuel distrib sitting on top of a big silver air flap housing in the middle of the motor under the air cleaner that has about 12 fuel lines coming and going.

TJ 450

The d-jet with solid lifters also has a round air cleaner, and many other differences. I'd search up d-jet 450 or 280SE 3.5 and do a comparison as they all run the same system.

Tim
1976 450SEL 6.9 1432
1969 300SEL 6.3 1394
2003 ML500

Pete49

Quote from: marku on 19 August 2018, 10:33 AM
The easy way is to look at the engine. If it is K-jet then it has what looks like a spider sitting in the middle with metal pipes going to the cylinders. If D-jet then it has a fuel pipe that runs around in a ring connected to the individual electric injectors connected to the ring by small diameter hoses.

Going by that description I definitely have the D-Jet motor which is what I thought. Thanks for describing the difference as it helps for other stuff.
I'll let you all know how it ends up when I get the rocker arm. Good to see another Sth Aussie here I was starting to think I was alone ;D
I was told of a guy locally that used to service Mercedes at a dealer but unfortunately he is losing his memory due to old timers disease.   
Pete
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

Randys01

D Jets/solid lifter motors were discontinued mid 76. As no one would retro a D jet into a later W116 450, we can safely presume she is not a 78.
You might want to check  that the VIN no on the firewall reflects an Aus spec ADR  vehicle and that the nos match on the Rego certificate.

Anyway, we are dealing with a solid lifter motor and back to your problem. If you are replacing the rocker  you should replace the ball pin stud as well. It is a short term solution to put an unmatched pair to work...swapping used ones around is Ok for diagnostic work but not recco for operational use.

Pete49

Thanks Randy I'll update as I go further. The body is Aus delivery and vin confirms that but the motor was a transplant. I need to get the data card to verify all the bits and try and sort out a few odds and ends but that can wait until later. Re the ball pin yep ordered as well to put my mind at ease. 
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)

marku

Odd that someone should put an older motor in. It may be unusual for the chassis number to be misquoted but it can happen. Does what is on the car agree with the registration documents? When I got mine I had a few problems until I checked and discovered that the two numbers were not the same. How it had happened can't really imagine but after some questioning the registration people here changed it and issued new papers. Don't know if it is the same in Australia but here you can ask for all the registration details back to the first owner. With such an expensive car you never know you might have had a celebrity owner.
1974 450SE silver green/bamboo velour/green vinyl roof

Pete49

Marku I am looking further into it.  I'm not fussed if the motor is an earlier one but if all other details are right I will look for a later motor if affordable and available. Until then I'll just enjoy the drive.
What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
Edward Langley,  Artist (1928-1995)