supercharged M117 / M100

[Des]

Ian makes a good point about under bonnet temp, we know these 6.9's stock standard are hot as hell when you put up the bonnet.

what have you done for your cooling?

[CraigS]

I don't think the outside ambient is going to help that set-up in keeping it cool ! I guess the thermo fan is probably on most of the time.

[SELfor50]

Swedish dude............. YOU'RE A F*kn CHAMPION!!!!!

I'm trying to confirm, but from what i can gather, YOU did all this work yourself yeah?
How much will it cost me to fly you downunder to do this to my car??
Actually, can i just buy your car??

So the 450SLC is a 5.6 M117?

If you can script exactly what you did in point form, i'd owe you one!

You removed the k-jet right?

Attention: SELfor50

Cam, this looks like the solution you've been looking for the power problem in your silver racer!

Hope all went well today mate, can't wait to see the vids/pictures.

Ian.

"Correct-o-mundo....  that's right Brett, you're a smart m***f***"   [Pulp Fiction]
That is the solution my friend, i just need refined details...
And of course for the Merculian, Mercules to complete such a monstrous task.. 

Quick hijack
Today went alright mate....considering i cross threaded (like i'm doing now ) a spark plug last night.. 
Fill you in when i post results and vids.

[Andrew280SEL]

Wow Supercharged!

That's a heck of a lot of power you got going right there!

Welcome to the forum BTW.

[450SLC 5.6 supercharged]

Iknow about the elevating temperture problems unde hood and not to mension the 6.9 ofuck that temp thats really a problem . thanks for all interests and i know that there is a big diff compared to different dynos thats true and that can make diferent numbers . just a check of a good inter cooling here  and  if i check  on my PC screen while im driving  SLC  so the intaketemp is never over 30 degrees even in sommertime  even at high boost moments  ignition timing reads 22 degree at 26 psi boost . at cruising mediumload 39 degree   and just where the engine is going in to boost  i have 33 degrees and remember E85 is cooler and contains alcohol 105 octane to so you can really sqeeze top end power and mid torque to . but at this moment im going to helicoil my 560 block and maby fabricate race cylinder hed gaskets ill se later on here . and as i did all of this work by my self  thats the only way to make this happening and you must really know what the engines need and why . about the pistons they can withstand a whole lot of pressure they are made of  special aluminium casting teknique like crome nickel T6 . its even more tolerant than forge pistons  special if you look  between the ringlands and thats true folks it really is . so what peaople often dont know about mercedes engines that is you got a sleeping race engine from the factory  just to wake it up and do it right  then you are going to love it  and have lot of fun and sure its importand to build safe horsepower i really dont think one of mine engines will live so long as they did in stock

[Sev]

and SLC is rather drivebel as long as you dont push it when the boost come on around 4k -6800rpm   then the hell brake loos i can just tell its like driving on snow i did burned out in speeds like 170 km/h  around 100mph i think . id never ever would believe if he ore she told me  like  oh man i can do a burnout in allmost 180kmh i wolud say okay im jesus mother  to  . lol but there is possible i know  but just easy and normal  its no problem .and the drive line well i did some mods at the tranny like better steelshims inside each clutch and another modulator valves and springs is stiffer and even the governor it calles and the turbine is reinforced to  the flexible joint is no longer there on the drive shaft   but there is a ball unit welded to the flange like a drive shaft unit . and the engine suspension  and tranny rear suspension is made of delrin its plastic  nylon material and so on .

dude that's the coolest single sentence I've ever read in my lifffffffffffffffeeeeee

your car rules brah

[450SLC 5.6 supercharged]

hey thanks , the whole thing started out with my old 450 SE  1973  and i came a cross a M100 6.9 first time in my life and fuckn ey the thing was and still are  huge basterd to be called an engine  and what even vorse it gonna fit in to a car .  i found it on a backyard standing there for over 20years  the engine whas a 78 , and nothing  was missing just engine complete and it was like new when i clean the thing up . so i found a tranny from a  300 sel 6.3 and turbine to and even the big flange  (little different to 6.9 flange) to bolt the turbine on suddenly i got a 4 speed  and  M100 6.9 in my 450SE 1973 with 3.06 axel . this one went like a scaled cat it did run on14.23 at the dragstrip so talk about different lol . then i got a 450SEL 78 200 hp not to happie to drive but , so the only thing  to get more power  was to supercharge  the engine ,  and first i did removed the K-jet  bought a Haltech F9-8 fuelmanagement system and used injectors from the old 450 D-jet car . and since then i got a kick like a drug , from the first day i drove my MB supercharged i will never forget the feeling it whas so cool . so my  slow performed 450sel 78  did suddenly run strong 350 hp at the time and boosted 0.85 bar and used a 4 speed tranny from a 280SE 3.5 bolted on right on . that's the beginning of forced induction MB v8s . And now to day this is my living and hobby at the same time so i custom make brackets for those who whant to bolt on a big Vortech on to the motor i even do fuelrails to replace on the D-jet  hoose fitting injectors  and people tells me their wishes and i do it real i got no limits what to do and if some one whants 1500hp i do it  .

[koan]

here is another madness have a look at this M100

It is madness but of the best kind!

Do you have any pictures taken during construction?

Are you using a modified standard manifold or something fabricated from scratch?

Where is the throttle plate, on the end of the flexible inlet hose?

The pulley sizes indicate the blower is running well over engine speed, what is the drive ratio?

Very interesting project and well executed.

koan

[Mercules]

450SLC 5.6 supercharged  - you a man to my own heart - if i had the money i think I too would have built a no-limits animal like yours. Congratulations on your achievement!!!

burnouts over 100MPH?!?!!? 

how long do your tyres last at that speed?

what sort of cost would you say to supercharge a 6.9?

I've heard twin turbos run into about $25k USD

but supercharging would be so much more usable

I have driven a VL turbo that would blacktrack at 120kph when re-clutching 3rd or 4th gear - we swapped 2 lanes on the freeway and almost died - and this was just from a 3 litre turbo!!!

Whilst i'm sure with sensible throttling this car is completely streetable, but I would imagine that the full power of an engine like 450SLC 5.6 supercharged is totally unusable on the street - and it would not take much to get very messy!!! 

Des, I would supercharge your car for under 10k - turbocharge it for about 15k - but you will always be limited to run minimal boost as the standard internals would not cope ... but for 25k + you could have a fully strengthened race motor, forged pistons, I-beam rods and easily make insane amounts of power!!!

But how much is too much? Building a strong engine is a proven formula but what would we do with the transmission and diff? Break it, modify it, fix it, break it, modify it, fix it, etc. Sounds like 450SLC 5.6 supercharged does the work himself so unless you have the smarts, you will just keep paying for the development.

And of course for the Merculian, Mercules to complete such a monstrous task.. 

If you have the money - I got your honey! It would seem I would even dance for money too!

The other Cameron

[Sev]

hey thanks , the whole thing started out with my old 450 SE  1973  and i came a cross a M100 6.9 first time in my life and fuckn ey the thing was and still are  huge basterd to be called an engine  and what even vorse it gonna fit in to a car .  i found it on a backyard standing there for over 20years  the engine whas a 78 , and nothing  was missing just engine complete and it was like new when i clean the thing up . so i found a tranny from a  300 sel 6.3 and turbine to and even the big flange  (little different to 6.9 flange) to bolt the turbine on suddenly i got a 4 speed  and  M100 6.9 in my 450SE 1973 with 3.06 axel . this one went like a scaled cat it did run on14.23 at the dragstrip so talk about different lol . then i got a 450SEL 78 200 hp not to happie to drive but , so the only thing  to get more power  was to supercharge  the engine ,  and first i did removed the K-jet  bought a Haltech F9-8 fuelmanagement system and used injectors from the old 450 D-jet car . and since then i got a kick like a drug , from the first day i drove my MB supercharged i will never forget the feeling it whas so cool . so my  slow performed 450sel 78  did suddenly run strong 350 hp at the time and boosted 0.85 bar and used a 4 speed tranny from a 280SE 3.5 bolted on right on . that's the beginning of forced induction MB v8s . And now to day this is my living and hobby at the same time so i custom make brackets for those who whant to bolt on a big Vortech on to the motor i even do fuelrails to replace on the D-jet  hoose fitting injectors  and people tells me their wishes and i do it real i got no limits what to do and if some one whants 1500hp i do it  .

you should consider making EFI kits for the m117 and sell tit to people on this forum with instructions for installation. I bet you could get $2500 per set and there'd be enough people to buy it to make it worth your time

[450SLC 5.6 supercharged]

well thats a thauhgt i got earlier and i know people asking me often about  this just replace the stock D-jet   would be a great upgrade to a stock motor i know that i did that by my self to  and then used forced induction  but thats another history   but  sure ure right about this  and emagin here 450 se say now old D-jet trubbel with the trigerpoints in the distributor  and so on you know how it can be right ? so new fuelrails  injectors  regulator  hooses new ECU harness sensors  throttelsensor  get even better use DIS no distributor . and u must have eather one eightchannel ingitor together with  two 4 cylinder coilpacks and its wastedfire works super .after this setup the engine is impossible to compare to another stock 450 se its like 100years different  but this is the best to do no matter supercharger or not . hmmmm   hell why not  do you think there is a market  over there

[SELfor50]

Mercules - you getting all this???

You able to hook a brother up with some of this ish on his 'Track' M117 450??
The fuel distribution / EFI stuff anyway?  Then we can talk Supercharger?

[450SLC 5.6 supercharged]

ooyeah u bet on that man and that's what i allways tell people i talk to  about their Mercedes that runs very poor and bad anyway  and i can tell you or lets put it in this way  , i do got the question about    how is it to buy all the stuff new on say a D-jet car  and why change the way it is  and so on . sure you can spend a say 4000 dollar on something just to get it running but HOW  is the shit running then compare to modern EFI  fully mappbased system  and ignition to as well  and i found out that on my dyno i gain most power from the ignition timing and that's where the secret is man i can tell you that  what most people dont know is that i have found peak performance just at allmost 50degree of timing in light load condition . so i thinking of custom fabricate  fulrails together with injectors  and hooses to and nippel of course  that's the only thing you must have to replace the stock hose rail D-jet . and then ECU harness sensors TPS   FPR  and last ignition coilpack      triggerweel  as well . but if people suggest to just fuel ECU  there is Haltech F10X ore F10 . just hook up on minus on the ignition coil and leave the ignitiong system as is  you can eaven use the stock injectors as well to . that's the easiest way to do it but it works beter than stock .

[Sev]

well thats a thauhgt i got earlier and i know people asking me often about  this just replace the stock D-jet   would be a great upgrade to a stock motor i know that i did that by my self to  and then used forced induction  but thats another history   but  sure ure right about this  and emagin here 450 se say now old D-jet trubbel with the trigerpoints in the distributor  and so on you know how it can be right ? so new fuelrails  injectors  regulator  hooses new ECU harness sensors  throttelsensor  get even better use DIS no distributor . and u must have eather one eightchannel ingitor together with  two 4 cylinder coilpacks and its wastedfire works super .after this setup the engine is impossible to compare to another stock 450 se its like 100years different  but this is the best to do no matter supercharger or not . hmmmm   hell why not  do you think there is a market  over there

why not start a thread here and on mercedesshop and see who might be genuinely interested? i know all the 6.9 guys will be on board. there's a guy, silvercosworth, who sells complete kits, inlcuding wiring harnesses, ECU, and instructions for installation, all for the 190e 2.3 or 2.3-16v (w201 chassis). There's probably a lot less to that kit (only one fuel rail for instance) but he was asking I believe on the order of $3,500 US. You could probably develop a system for on the order of $3-4K US. Even if you sold only 20 or 30 sets, you'd easily make your money back on it.

For most 116 owners, I'd think EFI would be a more viable solution than replacing their precious 6.9 engines for anything else, and definitely more viable than supercharging like you did. And I would think a bi-turbo system (I don't even know if one is available for an m117) would cost just about the same, and be less reliable, and you'd get about the same results more safely.

What do you think? You should ask yourself what it would take to make an EFI set, and then multiplying it by 20 or so...I wouldn't think the parts would be incredibly expensive, the hardest part would be the wiring and ECU, but if you mass-produce them you can save on the costs of it.

I'd gauge interest first though.

[450SLC 5.6 supercharged]

well  i think ure right up in my  thinking here  and i know  it would be to got a good EFI and  a bolt on kit for lets  say a 6.9 ore just a M117 D-jet car mostly i thinking of the trigger points  in the lower section in distributor u know   and just a bolt on kit  like the one i do in sweden   and not to mension if say you drive just fueling setup and  use stock ignition setup  but  use instead 450 distributor from K-jet  ore a 380se /sel works  well to i know that... and use it to gether with say  just a Haltech fuel its a good choice .