Sunroof electrical puzzle.

[scraf]

So I open my sunroof manually, and was in the process of installing a "new" sunroof motor that came with the car.

Test motor, it works, getting power to the switch, tried bypassing the switch ( shorted out the fuse when connecting the live bottom feed to the middle top feed for some reason ).

I'm wondering, is there some break point in the loom between the switch and the motor which might become unplugged ?

[koan]

The diagram I have shows a fuse, center off changeover switch and the motor. Wires from the switch connector go directly to the motor connector with no connectors in between.

All models are the same.

koan

[scraf]

... thus I must assume that the wire between the switch and the motor has got damaged somehow.

thanks koan

[scraf]

Hmm, the "library" manual says something about a "roof sensor".

Damn hard one to troubleshoot on one's own, need a pool cue or something to hit the switch while fiddling around in the boot.

I assume I am using the right switch, that would be the middle on in the console above the two large round airco / heating switches.

[koan]

the "library" manual says something about a "roof sensor".

Nothing on the wiring diagram or in the paper manual about that.

I just went out and checked the operation of my sunroof, there aren't any limit switches, when the roof reaches the end of its travel the interior light dims slightly until the switch is released indicating the motor is stalled or at least "feeling" the load.

Damn hard one to troubleshoot on one's own, need a pool cue or something to hit the switch while fiddling around in the boot.

That's what children are for, get some, they come in handy, especially their small hands for retrieving dropped items from tight spots.

I assume I am using the right switch, that would be the middle on in the console above the two large round airco / heating switches.

In mine it's the left most switch but I suspect they move around depending on options.

koan

[koan]

shorted out the fuse when connecting the live bottom feed to the middle top feed for some reason

Not sure what you mean by this but the motor is bi-directional, the polarity of the wires swaps over for the other direction, the motor doesn't have one side earthed.

The switch has 6 contacts, +12V and ground go to the two in the middle, two wires from the two contacts on one end of the switch connect to the two contacts on the other end but cross over top to bottom.

koan

[scraf]

Got a friend to push the buttons this afternoon.

I'm getting power to the connection for the motor, +13V or so, then -13 volts or so. ( left / right on the switch )

The motor works when I hotwire it to a battery.

Yet, I connect the motor to the connection, niks, yadda, sfa, not a sausage.

It's as if there isn't enogh "ampage" or something getting down the wiring loom.

*puzzled*

[koan]

Yet, I connect the motor to the connection, niks, yadda, sfa, not a sausage.

That's measuring the (lack of) volts at the motor with it connected, yes?

If that's the case you are spot on in not enough "amperage"  getting there.

Caused by high resistance some where. Fuse terminals, switch insides, switch connections or motor connections. Doubt it's the wiring itself.

Try a small lamp, say a !2V 6 watt park light in place of the motor, see if glows at all.

In my vehicle the sunroof fuse serves aux fan relay and power window relay 2. Not sure what they mean by relay and relay 2 as opposed to aux fan and windows but does everything else work OK?

koan

[scraf]

In my vehicle the sunroof fuse serves aux fan relay and power window relay 2. Not sure what they mean by relay and relay 2 as opposed to aux fan and windows but does everything else work OK?

According to the schema inside my fuse box, my sunroof shares the same fuse as the rear window heater, which could be the culprit qua resistance, although I don't have it turned on. Fortunately I won't need both at the same time.

However, some of my windows aren't doing it very well, as in all except the drivers door, although according to the schema in the fuse box, they have seperate fuses, interesting enough, rear left coupled with the front right, and front left coupled with the rear right.

Yet, I connect the motor to the connection, niks, yadda, sfa, not a sausage.

That's measuring the (lack of) volts at the motor with it connected, yes?

Er, that was observing the motor not rotating.

[koan]

According to the schema inside my fuse box, my sunroof shares the same fuse as the rear window heater, which could be the culprit qua resistance

Fortunately I won't need both at the same time.

The resistance (which is what limits the "amperage" getting to the motor) must be in the sunroof circuit, fuse, switch etc., not in another, separate circuit that just happens to share the same fuse.

You might not want to use them at the same time but you should be able to.

However, some of my windows aren't doing it very well, as in all except the drivers door, although according to the schema in the fuse box, they have seperate fuses, interesting enough, rear left coupled with the front right, and front left coupled with the rear right.

Thiat's a different problem, I only mentioned windows because they share the sunroof fuse in my car, yours is different.

Er, that was observing the motor not rotating.

If you were to measure the volts with the motor connected and get nothing then disconnect the motor and measure again and get 12V it would prove the motor was loading the circuit.

It's easy to get the two pin connectors apart and get meter probes on them while connected.

koan.

[scraf]

Update, figured out how the four / six pin switch works, and bypassed it. Motor starting spinning !!!! YES !!! Found the "dirty switch" possibility searching here I think, can't remember who to thank.

Finally managed to get the motor attached, sunroof opened all of like 6 inches, electrically !!!

That was the best it could do, but I have a donor car with motor and switch which worked ( with a little help ), so I'll go get those bits, and then it will be lubrication time.

[scraf]

Update: ( this might help someone one day )

Changed motor, sunroof started going backwards but not forwards.

Therefore, the switch is probably be half dodgy, maybe this is a problem that might occur quite regularly as the switch on my donor car was an after-market jobbie.

Replaced switch with the after-market jobbie, and I now have a sunroof that goes forwards and backwards. not very far, maybe six inches, but that's another issue, thus, puzzle solved.

Replacing the motor is very fiddley btw, having done it now three times, had to climb into the boot of my donor car due to it been parked up next to a wall.

The after-market switch was a brain teaser as well, hope I'm not getting too old ( read "dotty" ) for all this sort of stuff.



Edit: Sorry koan, you'd already nailed it here in this thread, apologies for not noticing it earlier......

Caused by high resistance some where. ............ switch insides