Author Topic: Suitable rims ?  (Read 2956 times)

Denis

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Suitable rims ?
« on: 27 July 2006, 05:01 AM »
Hello gentlemen and assorted other creatures

In my quiet quest for better rims, I have come across a prime set of 16x8 ET11 rims whose style I fancy. I plan on using 225/55x16 Pirelli (Euro-made please) tyres on them.

Is this suitable ?

Thanks for replying

Denis

Paris, France

Tomi

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #1 on: 27 July 2006, 06:13 AM »
Hi Denis,
those rims and those tires are exactly what I have on my SL (R107). So the rims are suitable for the tires, but I presume you are asking suitability for the W116.

Any bigger sizes would not go for the SL without some metalwork on the rear arches. I would suppose these suit the W116, but not 100% sure. These do make the ride harder.
MB 450 SEL -80 (oldtimer for the class)
MB E220T -95 (daily driver)
MB 230E -82 (a present for my son)

s class

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #2 on: 27 July 2006, 07:47 AM »
Denis,

Offset is something that needs to be considered carefully. 

The smaller the offset, the further out the rims will stand.  Standard 14" Bundts for W116 are somewhere around ET30 I think - someone can correct me here.  When fitting wider wheels there usually isn't scope to allow the extra width on the inside due to fouling with tie rods etc.  So it is normal that as one fits wider wheels one must have them standing further out - in other words a smaller offset. 

My 15" Bundts are 7.5" wide, and have ET23.  What this means is their centreline is outside of where the centreline would be with standard rims.  As I understand it, this means that the classic W116 "zero offset" steering is no longer zero offset.  I have found this makes the car more "skittish" - or perhaps more precise?  In any case wider wheels, especially with reduced offset makes the car very intolerant of inaccuracies in wheel alignment and wear in bushes and similar.  Denis, I PM'ed you about front suspension overhaul. 

However many on this forum are running wider wheels and essentially non-zero offset with good results it seems.

My point is that you should only compromise on the rim offset as much as absolutely necessary.  ET11 seems very low to me - though perhaps that will be necessary to clear the tie rods etc?

OK then on to tyres.

I have R129 rims on my R107.  They are 16x8 I believe, though the offset is much higher than ET11.  I'm not sure what my offset is but I needed spacers.  Tyres are 225/55ZR16 bridgestones.

What is important is that the overall outside diameter is correct.  You can get this as follows :

2*(section width * profile) + rim dia in mm = overall outside diameter in mm.

When I was choosing tyres for my 15" bundts and the 16's for my R107, I compiled the following table which may be useful to many here :

Tyre Size        overall     deviation from standard tyre (%)
                       diameter
                          (mm)


205/70 R 14   642.6   0 (standard tyre)
185/80 R 14   651.6   +1.40
215/65 R 14   635.1   -1.17
225/65 R 14   648.1   +0.86
235/60 R 14   637.6   -0.78
245/60 R 14   649.6   +1.09
205/65 R 15   647.5   +0.76
225/60 R 15   651.0   +1.31
225/55 R 15   628.5   -2.19
205/60 R 16   652.4   +1.53
215/60 R 16   664.4   +3.39
205/55 R 16   631.9   -1.67
215/55 R 16   642.9   +0.05
225/55 R 16   653.9   +1.76
225/50 R 16   631.4   -1.74
245/45 R 16   626.9   -2.44
255/45 R 16   635.9   -1.04

In a 16" size, the 225/55R16 is suitable if a little large.  The 225/50R16 is undersize by a similar amount.  I see that a number of the members on this site with AMG pentas use 225/50R16. 

Its worth bearing in mind that 225/50R16 will give you slightly lower gearing, and marginally less body problems with body etc clearance than 225/55R16.  On the other hand, fuel consumption will be slightly up with the 50's compared to the 55's but then with megasquirt thats not an issue anymore... ;D

Good luck.   by the way my 280SE looks MEAN with the 225/60R15 on the 15" bundts!
« Last Edit: 27 July 2006, 07:50 AM by s class »

'76 6.9 Euro, '78 6.9 AMG, '80 280SE, '74 350SE, '82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro , '81 500SL

Denis

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #3 on: 27 July 2006, 11:26 AM »
Lovely exposé S class !

I did very much appreciate your PM on front end overhaul. I apologise for not replying about that but I have stored it in a real life experience W116 directory.

I did some calculations and indeed, the ET11 on 16x8 rims means that the inner wheel rim stays at the SAME position as on standard rims - which is good. The outer edges of the tyre move out by 38 mm. The zero offset feature is gone but I understand from other sources that this makes the car responsive (some would call it twitchy). My ruler says that I can take the 38 mm if diameter stays about the same, which it does with 225/55-16 tyres and no larger.

Now the real bonus on this issue. On the zwoachzig.de site, there is a picture of a car exactly like what I want. See http://zwoachzig.de/bilder/bes0902g.jpg

This car is even french with a 57 plate (Lorraine, near Alsacia) and the driver is wearing a helmet. Is this for show ? Is he doing some kind of performance driving ? does he always use those rims ? I don't know.

But It happens to be the very rims that I  am being offered.

Denis

Paris, France

Tomi

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #4 on: 27 July 2006, 12:23 PM »
I tried to look for the ET on the original rims but it seems they are not marked on the backside as usual, but I think these are originally quite low around ET 20 .

A good tire size calculator can be found here: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

The rims on the zwoachzig.de site look great, but something is wrong with that car in the pic. Yes, now I know, the car is very high, with those tires the car could be lowered also.

cheers
MB 450 SEL -80 (oldtimer for the class)
MB E220T -95 (daily driver)
MB 230E -82 (a present for my son)

Mforcer

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #5 on: 27 July 2006, 03:24 PM »
In my quiet quest for better rims, I have come across a prime set of 16x8 ET11 rims whose style I fancy. I plan on using 225/55x16 Pirelli (Euro-made please) tyres on them.

Is this suitable ?

Chris M has those size rims on his W116. They were made to fit but may need to have the front wheel arches rolled a little. I have 16x7.5 ET17 and they fit perfectly.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

AMG69

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #6 on: 27 July 2006, 06:26 PM »
spot on - roling out the front arches slightly would be a good idea!
sigh....sitting back contemplating the next purchase..!

s class

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #7 on: 28 July 2006, 02:19 AM »
Denis,

That car in the pic looks teriffic - good enough for me to dismiss any ideas of non-standard wheels = treason. 

Yes I would say that car is on a drag strip.  Or perhaps its a turbo'ed 6.9 at a stop street?  :D

Its good news if your inner wheel lip is in the original position - That almost guarantees you will not have fouling problems with the tie rods and inner fender panels.  As others have commented, the outer fender lip may be a problem. 

I hereby bestow my seal of approval on the intended wheel purchase  ;D (not that anyone would care!)

'76 6.9 Euro, '78 6.9 AMG, '80 280SE, '74 350SE, '82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro , '81 500SL

Denis

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #8 on: 03 August 2006, 12:13 PM »
Hi fellows !

Yes, S class, I was like you and I still am in a way - do not modify the lovelies but I drive a "plain" old 350SE, not a venerable collector 6.9 :P

I hope that you 2.8 and diesel guys agree : the W116 style can be tastefully modernised and still be "correct" within the performance enveloppe of slower W116s. Power does NOT make the car although the more powerful versions can "justify"  :-\ apparent sportiness but making it look like a dragstrip car is hardly elegant.

I am getting to like the M110 because of my W126. Nice sound ... The diesels are, I hear, miracle workers in the fuel consumption area and IF they had been available here in France, I would have gotten one !

BTW, the reason that they were not is that an S-class must NEVER,NEVER be passed by a Renault 9 (a dull contemporary car) going uphill   :P and besides, "class" society forbids it !

So back to the issue : I want to "modestly" tune my 350 : rims and perhaps a little Megasquirt/K&N induced 230 DIN hp. Like a US 6.9, without the torque, but with the same ultimate figures to 150 kph.

I have bought the sought rims  ;D and wish to ask : what are interesting URLs (web sites) on RWD car roadholding that you guys have found ? Imagine I were out for a W116 gymknana car ...

In fact, can you fellows forward me info on roadholding tuning for our cars, specifically if possible ?


Denis

Paris, France

Nice but cool weather, climactic change is unfortunately pretty real...

116.025

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Re: Suitable rims ?
« Reply #9 on: 03 August 2006, 08:14 PM »
Hi fellows !

Yes, S class, I was like you and I still am in a way - do not modify the lovelies but I drive a "plain" old 350SE, not a venerable collector 6.9 :P

I'm still pretty die-hard about not modifying the lovelies, but I am starting to come off of that a little bit, even though I have a "lowly" 280SE and not a 6.9.

I hope that you 2.8 and diesel guys agree : the W116 style can be tastefully modernised and still be "correct" within the performance enveloppe of slower W116s. Power does NOT make the car although the more powerful versions can "justify"  :-\ apparent sportiness but making it look like a dragstrip car is hardly elegant.

Indeed, there's very little that's stately or elegant about a drag car...
Now to the reason I actually quoted this message in the first place...

I am getting to like the M110 because of my W126. Nice sound ... The diesels are, I hear, miracle workers in the fuel consumption area and IF they had been available here in France, I would have gotten one !
Denis

Paris, France

Ah yes, as Ryan and I can testify, there's almost nothing that matches the sound of a M110 in good running order, especially past 4000 rpms...you'll grow to love it even more...trust me, I certainly did.  I know I'll miss it if I actually manage to part with my 280SE.
Chad Johnson

'77 280SE Euro (4-Spd) Sold 1/5/09
'71 220D (4-spd)
'77 280SEL Euro (4-Spd) RIP
'89 420SEL
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'83 380SL
"Don't Worry, Bobby, even a worn out Mercedes is better than a 2010 cracker-jack box