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Rims / Tyres

Started by scraf, 12 May 2010, 01:29 AM

scraf

So I need four new tyres for the technical check, will set me back € 400.

However, I can get new rims with tyres secondhand for less.

What would be the optimal size to look for ? ..... and would later model Mercedes rims fit on my W116 450 SEL ?

Advantages of having Aluminium rims ?

Looking at the likes of these.

Thanks in advance.

another sad 280s

thought i would piggy back this topic.
i need a new set of tyres for the original rims. the body is white and i'm very tempted by pinstripe white walls. still having the debate though. what are the tyre recommendations for these cars.

motec6.9

Any wheel from a w126 or w107  will suit your car look on the evo web page 450sel 6.9 v s65 the 6.9 in that clip has 560sel alloys fitted addvantage of alloy is less unsprung weight so your suspension does not work as hard ie better ride :)
Euro 6.9 255.6hp at the wheels. Watch this space.

flutes

The tyres themselves are a bit of a challenge - 205/70/14's are pretty hard to come by.  I'm getting a set of Toyo's on Friday, some others here have bought Maxxis.  Aside from the billion dollar Michellin XWXs there just isn't that much around in the big name brands.
Matt
1977 450SEL

s class

You may want to consider Vredesteen if its available in your area as they have 205/70R14 in the correct VR rating - I think.

The original wheels have an offset of ET30.  You should keep close to that to keep the zero offset steering geometry correct.  15" W126 wheels have an offset of ET25, and are close enough to work fine.  You can't however fit the similar looking wheels off a W124, W201 or W202 which have an offset of either ET37 or ET44 usually. 

As to the wheels you show in the photos, just do your homework - most of the more recent benzes have a high offest wheel (ie ET37 or even more), and I know that from the W140 onwards, a larger diameter mounting bolt was often used. 

If you are considering wheels such as these, ask the seller to provide you with the full size data off the wheel. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

koan

There is a Michelin tyre available.

Michelin XM1 205x70R 14 98H

Think there is a 215 in same range.

Have to look closely at the load rating of some of the cheaper tyres.

koan
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

scraf

Offset ? I was just hoping the bolts would fit.

* goes off to do research *

Would the wrong offset cause the tyres to wear very quickly on the inner side ? I was going to blame wheel alignment.

Mforcer

The biggest issue with using rims with the wrong offset is that the tyres may rub when turning.

Steering geometry will change which will change the handling of the car too but this may not necessarily be a bad thing.

http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/new-wheels/ shows most of what I found on this subject.
Michael
1977 450SE [Brilliant Red]
2006 B200

flutes

Koan that's interesting re the Michelins - do you know if / where they're still available?  They don't list them on the website at that size.  I've had a tyre shop called Tyresome searching for weeks and the best they could come up with were the Toyo 330s.  Link 
Matt
1977 450SEL

koan

Quote from: flutes on 12 May 2010, 06:46 PM
Koan that's interesting re the Michelins - do you know if / where they're still available?

Bob Jane in Melbourne has them.

205/70R14 98 H $206 ea.

215/65R14 94 H $145 ea.

(yes, wider tyre is cheaper)

koab

   

Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Amen!

carl888

That Michelin XM1 is not a bad tyre actually, it's the closest thing you'll find to the handling of the XWX.  The Vredstein is also very good.  I strongly suggest you stay away from the plethora of cheapies, the Maxxis, Roadstone etc.  The do not have the sidewall strength to preserve the excellent handling of the heavy W116.  They also have a very high tread wear index so last a long time, at the expense of grip.  Very funny to try to pull up in a hurry on a wet road with these tyres.  The XWX sadly has the stiffest sidewall (Sad because they cost nearly $500 each) but the two alternatives above are not bad.  Annoyingly, I have three cars that run XWX's as original, if could find a cheaper tyre that was as good, I would use it in a flash..  They do look so right on the rims though.  There used to be a nice Pirelli 205/70-14, a P6000 and VR as well, for our European friends, that might be worth a look.  It was never imported here in Australia.  The "V" rating is certianly appealing.


The 280's came with a 185 HR14 as standard.  A nice upgrade is to a 205/70-14 (Same diameter) and a 6 1/2" rather than a 6.0" rim for the 280.  The 350's and 450's are fine on a decent 205/70-14, the standard size. The 6.9 took a 215/70-14 XWX, the only other car that took that size was the rear tyre for a Lamborghini Countach LP400.  Sooooo.....hardly a strong seller, but you can still get them!

If you are tempted by the 15" Bundt's, go for a 205/65-15.  There are lots of really goods tyres in that size from Continental, Pirelli, Michelin and Bridgestone and some in that size are MB approved too (Check for the "MO" on the sidewall, that's the MB approval code).  Like the 14's avoid the cheapies.








flutes

Those XWXs really do look tremendous.  I love the simplicity of the sidewall - shines up beautifully without all those oversized logos, diagonal lines etc cluttering it up.
Matt
1977 450SEL

s class

About 2 years ago I put some 205/70HR14 Michelin XM1's on my 450SL, when they were still freely available.  I was pleasantly impressed with them, despite my normal strong preference for Bridgestones. 

Carl, I was interested in your recommendation for 205/65R15 tyres for 15" bundts.  I have som 15" bundts I want to use on my 6.9 and I had been thinking of 225/60VR15.  Can you comment on this?  Might the wider tyre cause tramlining problems or similar?

Thanks


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL

carl888

Sclass, I've never liked cars that run a wide front tyre, even something like a Ferrari 360 Modena with 400 BHP runs a 215 section tyre on the front.  A wide front tyre affects turn in, the car becomes less pointy (May not be such as issue on a 116).  The biggest problem with a wide and low profile tyre is that a car with not a lot of roll stiffness (Like a W116) has enough compliance in the suspension to use only part of the tyre during cornering because the sidewalls are so much less compliant, the inner or outer part of the tyre can be off the road.  As a guess, I reckon a 50 section tyre would be about as low as you could go and not have this issue.  Of course, a 225 front in any aspect ratio would make the turn in a bit tardy, but I would defer to anyone that has tried this combination (I haven't).  Tramlining is a problem with wide front tyres on any car.

As the 6.9 carried a 215 as standard, why not try a 215/65-15 simply because it was the original width?  Nothing in it between the 215 and 225 though:

Specification  Sidewall  Radius  Diameter  Circumference  Revs/Mile  Difference
215/70-14         5.9in  12.9in    25.9in         81.2in        780        0.0%
215/65-15         5.5in  13.0in    26.0in         81.7in        776        0.6%

Specification  Sidewall  Radius  Diameter  Circumference  Revs/Mile  Difference
215/70-14         5.9in  12.9in    25.9in         81.2in        780        0.0%
225/60-15         5.3in  12.8in    25.6in         80.5in        787       -0.9%


I know I've hijacked the original thread sorry scraf, perhaps it might be better to start a new one?

Regards,

Carl

s class

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Carl.  At one time I was running 225/55VR16 bridgestones on my 280SE W116.  Tramlining was not a problem, and generally, handling was nice.  The ride was a bit crashy, and ultimately, I found that returning to 205/70HR14 was a decent upgrade in all round driveability.  BTW, I also tried those same 16" wheels and bridgestones on the 450SL and the car was just plain undriveable. 
As an aside, I've tried larger wheels on many different cars (mostly benzes) and in almost all cases I felt the car became a poorer driving experience than with the standard wheel. 

Thus my only motivation for fitting 15" bundts is the exclusivity/poser/coolness factor.  Likewise, 225/60 has more coolness factor than 205/65...... 215/65 is not a size generally available here in South Africa so is not an option. 


[color=blue]'76 6.9 Euro[/color], [color=red]'78 6.9 AMG[/color], '80 280SE, [color=brown]'74 350SE[/color], [color=black]'82 500SEL euro full hydro, '83 500SEL euro full hydro [/color], '81 500SL